I remember putting spinning hard drives in raid 0 to get a little speed bump- the speeds now are like “space age” futuristic in comparison! Awesome video
I still have a raid 0 with two 1TB mx500s. Its a great value as the drives were only $50 each. Its pretty damn fast for file transfers. Its basically a 2TB downloads folder.
Just dropping in to say I appreciate this video so much. This is the exact information I needed for consideration in my first new build in about ten years. You guys are awesome for doing this, keep up the great work! Cheers!
We are barely starting to take advantage of Gen 4 SSDs with DirectStorage, which is a niche feature. It'll be a while before Gen 5 SSDs can make sense even to the most hardcore PC users. At this point we need to rebuild how the OS utilises drives from the ground up to fully take advantage of these fast PCIe SSDs.
DirectStorage is exactly the thing that will make it happen at least for gaming,there is no reason for it to take advantage of gen4 and not beyond in its next few implementations.
@@yol_n If you want to test the experience of your pc players who own pcie 5 ssds, sure. UE doesn't support direct storage yet, and if you're doing ps5 dev you'll have a devkit to test it on. If you need it, you'll likely know about it 👍
I have come to the conclusion that the Gigabyte Aurous Gen5 10000 is actually a PCIe 4 SSD with a PCIe5 interface. I guess it needs some major revamp in the controller and NAND flash. I think future drives will be faster but heat dissipation will be crucial to achieving higher performance.
@@profosist The problem with NAND is that it is slow and it needs more channels. An 8 channel SSD would cost more than a 4 channel one and 4 channel SSDs will be slower.
Been following Gordon since the MaximumPC days. I totally enjoyed reading his articles in the mag - not sure if it's still in publication? Gordon is who I learned pc building from back in 1995.
Thanks for making these videos. They have helped me alot with building my new computer. Especially with the 13900k. However Im still on the fence with PCIe Gen5. Will Gen5 benefit me at all before building a new PC in 4 or 5 years, or just stick with a PCIe Gen4 mobo and do it on the next PC replacement cycle lol. I use my PC mostly for gaming, rarely streaming, and occasionally some recording, so maybe PCIe Gen4 is better for me right now. This would definitely open up my mid/high-end motherboard options.
@@pcworld Yea that the thing. I dont really need it. I do nothing that requires a need for it. I dont even think its worth future proofing for it. Thanks again for the info on all the new goodies.
I find it crazy that SSDs are the speed of DDR3 RAM (at least sequentially), and faster than the whole capacity of most hard drives at the start of the century.
@DM-ei6oo I meant it as crazy good, cause system ram is one of the fastest components in a computer, and now we have ssds that are as fast sequentially as ram from less than a decade ago, and you can get terabytes of it (even at gen 5 prices), for a lot cheaper.
Most board owners are on lucky since their first or fastest M2 slot is usually directly underneath the first PCI x16 slot... So you're going to be always constrained on thermals and installation room
People were buying the Inland Gen5 drive at Microcenter well before that Aorus was available at retail. Certainly not the first available commercial drive.
I was recently surprised how fast a 16TB drive is, in sequential writes it was just as fast as my first pair of high performance SSDs back in.... 2011? around 300MB/s from an HDD is crazy consindering the last time i remember testing one it was around 90MB/s Whats even crazier is that backing up photos from my camera is faster when going to HDD, than to my 2TB gen4 NVMe, because that speed eventually hits the end of the SLC cache, and then slows to ~40MB/s, HDD stays 250MB/s+ the whole time
@@hammerheadcorvette4 My 16TB HDD ends up being faster than my 2TB gen4 NVMe in sequential writes, sure the NVMe will copy at 5000+MB/s, but only for a limited time, the HDD is 300MB/s the whole way though The problem i found recently when backing up my camera from a wedding shoot, the SD card is limited to 300MB/s (290 something but effectively 300) so copying is just as fast both to NVMe and HDD But after i copied around 8 out of 50GB the NMMe slowed to 40MB/s, so i switched over to backing up to the HDD, which ran at between 250 and 300MB/s the whole time, mostly only slowing down when it was grabbing metadata like the .moff and .modd files for the photos
I still use spinning drives. The storage per dollar is still superior to flash storage. 16 TB for 250 bucks yet an 8 TB NVMe Gen 4 costs four grand....
Great comparison lineup, but i miss the more spreaded type like samsung 990 Pro (not assumming that the results would significantly vary, but its known as the fasstest NVME Gen4). But i would highlight the inclusion of optane.
Given how most gen5 SSDs are having heat issues and requiring either active cooling or massive heat sinks I would rather we started cutting down on the lanes for drive and keeping the top end speed the same. For instance we could have a 2 lane gen 5 drive get 7500MBps and now have twice as many lanes available. This will be even more important when pcie 6.0 starts appearing on hardware. Give me a single pcie lane at that 7500MBps. The can keep improving the randoms in the controller but I really don't need to add cost and bulk to everything when I am rarely going to benefit from it.
I think it's laughable how people gravitate on sequential read/writes which is only good for M.2 to M.2 that are at least the same exact or faster speeds. The real world is random 4K que depth 1.
About the video editing performance. It takes very little data to stream 4k locally. I'm sure the number is the same because that's all that's required to play it back. Perhaps you need 12k or higher. I have a SATA SSD that I edit from and the performance is fine. 4k is simply not demanding enough.
There is no way that heatsink would fit on my board with how the GPU/CPU heat sinks are located. Would be curious if all the PCIe 5 drives will be so hot. When there are a few more on the market I would like to see how the compete when using just the motherboard's "flat" heatsinks
Why? The two gen 5 drives I've seen come with their own heat spreader. I have the Inland version of the Aurous drive and it comes with its own fan too.
@@TurboXray It's because motherboards come with their own heatsink and it would be good to see how much that affects (or doesn't) the drives performance. Also, a lot of motherboards won't have space for the bigger heatsink due to being in the way of the GPU.
Man, that Intel Optane looks so promising. If Intel (or someone) else would develop it further to also get higher speeds for large files and produce them in large quantities to lower the price, they might kill some smaller SSD makers. Btw, I wonder how good these Gen5 SSD will do on laptops, as we need serious cooling also for storage.
I've been saying this for a while but laptops annoy the hell out of me. They keep trying to reduce the size to the smallest thing but I would be fine with something from around 2010-2015 in size. If they would stop being cheap and increase the heatsink in them and possibly increase to an 80 or 90mm fan. I would pay an extra 50 easily for being cooler and quieter
Micro Center was the first to have a Gen5 drive available retail through its house brand "Inland" (TD510 2TB). It's the same innards as this drive though, Phison E26 controller but comes with a heatsink that has an annoyingly loud active fan.
gordon, what the heck is even that? 01:42 i wanna reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee when i seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee on what you're testing... how can this beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee oh, and yeah, i want to see it with the strix 670e-f heatsink with a card on top of it. it's not that bulky, and i'm pondering to add gen 5 with my next CPU upgrade, but would be nice to see if there is a risk, would also be a good example as it's not this sophisticated.
Would love to see temp tests on a reasonable selection of latest Gen5 compatible MBs, since some include substantial cooling sinks, others more generic "single plate" cooling for 2 (or even 3) NVME drives. Thanks guys for all your hard work and contributions to the "Community of Nerds" (like me ...😂😂).
Just like the XPG, Samsung had a utility for their SATA SSD's to use your system RAM for Cache. 12 years ago when a friend was boasting the speed of his RAID of two Samsung SATA SSD's he was getting about 600MB/s then I showed him a benchmark that I did on my system which showed over 3GB's and told him to do better. Think I was running a Corsair F60 SATA SSD at the time
Yeah.. ram cache.. which will make your benchmark in crystal disk give crazy results but wont perform anything better in most real situations... Those speeds are so fast because the file used in the benchmark is already loaded in ram...Only speeds up things if the file was already used before in that same session and didnt get overwritten by anything else that got cached...
After seeing this video I decided to test my new Corsair MP700 Gen 5 M.2. The results are fairly equal to what the video shows for the Aurous Gen 5 except my Q32T1 results for write shows 563,16 and my write Q1T1 shows 327.48.
I would rather we took the PCIe 5.0 x4 M.2 slot and turned it into two x2 slots at this point. The thermal output of these drives is outpacing controller die shrinks and architectural improvements so much that they need active cooling to stay reasonably cool. Half the lanes and double the ports, that way we can allow fabrication process and controller efficiency a PCIe generation to catch up and give ourselves a bit more connectivity.
@@bakedbeings Extra cost, more noise, some M.2 slots are awkwardly positioned (under GPUs, the back side of motherboards) and can't accept active cooling.
Would performance vary motherboard to motherboard? AMD to Intel? Soup to sandwich? Ram to ram? Did the x3d hold anything back? Would my Asus board have done better? Am I in a simulation?
I think for direct storage pcie 3.0 will be more than fine in the future. It's only 1 sec or so behind which is nothing for loading, maybe in a year or 2 it will matter with pci 5.0 and 4.0. But we have only one game and it looks like the tech. is not being used in future games at all.
does the graphics cards rendering matter much in for these benchmarks? say a Nvidia 5000 series would obviously give better results compared to the same PCIes used than say 4000 series or 4000 series?
This was on sale in China for about a month (along with one from Corsair and one from Galax), then all three were pulled from the market before I could nab one.
People should care more about 4K Random speeds, that's what matters most, and NAND Flash is still the limiting factor in that regard not, the transfer medium itself.
I'm still running SATA 2. Thinking of upgrading and using a 990 PRO. Anything will be faster than what I have, but will not really utilise anything other than more memory as I only have 6gb of DDR2
I wonder how much cooling is an issue with m.2 drives in laptops. My Lenovo came with a PCIe 3.0 x4 drive and I wonder if I would notice a improvement if I went to a WD850x 2TB drive. It has a PCIe 4 slot but would it just get hot and throttle.
6:15 I recently tried backing up my camera from a wedding (A7 IV) to a 2TB gen 4 NVMe. It started out great, went the full 300MB/s that my SD card is rated for. Then about 8GB into the 50GB of photo and video, it slowed down to 40MB/s, so i checked task manager, my SSD had overrun its SLC cache and i guess the SLC cache gets slower as the drive fills, because i dont remember it getting this slow when it only had 100GB on it.
you might have a cheap nvme then. i think the samsung series nvme's as well as sk hynix have a better cache. i never wanna use anything from wd or sandisk after my last experience.
@@LZeugirdor some Samsung do. The most consistent writer is the Samsung 970 Pro. It will keep write speeds consistent even after 800 gigs of writing while other drives like the Samsung 980 pro will fill its cache and then slow down. There’s a good bit of information on quora that I tried to link but it deleted my comment.
Why do you use the SK Hynix P41 vs the Solidigm P44 Pro? The cooling fans on gen5 is a certain turn off for myself, where with the Gen4 I can just use the motherboard's heatsinks on a bare drive. Since it seems the gen5 drives need so much cooling, could we expect to see PCIe 5.0 x4 slot drive that had more surface area and can even have a blower fan exhausting out the back? I know it can be hard to find motherboard's that have many extra slots anymore, but there are some
I have no idea if we are going to need the m.2 in PCI-e 5.0 configuration because if we use it with slower drives, the speed will be limited. (except that your m/b got more than 1 pci-e 5.0 slot)
The charts showed a negligible difference from a 7000MB/s Gen4 drive. 1 second load time vs 1.1 second load time, isn't worth double the price. I can't imagine future titles will be able to take advantage of the speeds to reduce times any further than that, regardless of drive speed.
When the difference between 2 gen 4 drives are that big. How can you ask if gen 5 is worth it when there's only one so far? It seems to me like it's going to be another good 6 months before this question should be asked.
watching 905p clean house everywhere it matters is kinda bizarre, since it was sort of broken, low-performance optane compared to the P5800X make sure you read the controller temps, not the nand temps. nand likes to be warm, but the controllers often like to kick out a lot of heat, and can be a problem.
Yeah, I thought about jamming in a couple of thermocouples in there, but kinda wondered about the cooling impact from having the relatively thick K probes I have. I should source a few thinner probes and monitor the back side nand, front side nand and controller at once.
The insane write speeds give what benefit? What can feed data to the CPU that fast to where it can output to the NVMe at such a high rate? I understand that for reading, a CPU can call data fast enough such as game loads when you have better, higher core count CPUs (game load does many things not just reading data off a drive, and queue depth is CERTAINLY >1 during game loads. There's a lot of decompression for instance, creating instances of objects, etc....). So, I see benefit for gaming with these higher speed NVMe drives but other than that I think you need to be in the world of WS or server for the speed boost to matter.
Gordon, on the Crosshair Hero X670E you can't use drives with double sided heatsinks, the q latch is not tall enough to latch onto the pcb. I contacted Asus abput the prospect of getting replacement q latches that work on heatsinks (it's only a few dollars of plastic) and the CR actually blamed me for installing the motherboard heatsink ontop of m.2 heatsinks. When I pointed out that was not remotely possible, the same CR came back to me and said the board wasn't designed for m.2s with heatsinks and my only recourse was a refund. When I asked, -where- were they categorically telling me that Asus is actually limiting options on a £700 motherboard - not a single response and that was about 10 days ago. I've waited long enough for Asus to respond. It's time to make this public.
Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of boards that want you to rely on their thermal solutions rather than accounting for heatsinks provided by manufacturers. I'm sure the efficiency is fine, but not everyone buys bare drives or prefers their own heatsink. -Adam
@@pcworld Hi Adam, thanks for responding. True and it's worse for this particular board as the M2_2 socket is Gen5 whereas the M2_3 and M2_4 are Gen4. As all three are sharing the same motherboard heatsink - using a Gen5 drive will rapidly increase the temps on other two drives even if they are idle. Also the M2_4 socket has no motherboard backplate. If the slim motherboard heatsink was fine than OEMs wouldn't be including massive heatsinks on the gen5 m.2 socket closest to the CPU. Anyway, is it even remotely possible to remove q-latch 'screws' and replace them with standard m.2 stand-offs? I ask as I have since replaced the motherboard heatsinks with m.2 heatsinks and no crashes when gaming. The m.2s are currently held by frigging ducktape lol... - attached to the top of the heatsink and spread across to the case (no tape on the pcb - m.2 heatsink is 9.2 in thickness). The primary reason to replace them was because the 970 Evo Gen3 drive I had in M2_4 socket was causing the other two drives to heat up. Playing games off the M2_3 drive also causes the M2_4 drive to warm up due to proximity. So, in effect you have a mini heatloop which also causes the M2_2 to heat up. In a poor airflow case the temps will be pretty high. In the scenario I described using a H500M I get CTDs (crash to desktop) when gaming. I have since replaced the 970 Evo with a 4TB SN850X and since that's double sided, using the motherboard heatsink was no longer viable.
@@FakeGordonMahUng Hi Gordon, not sure what happened to my reply 2 weeks ago, I guess some random numpty troll reported my comment as spam when called out on their fud as many of my comments around that time disappeared as well lol... Anyway, thanks for the reply. a few days ago I bought an additional desk primarily because my workspace is pretty small and I couldn't work on the PC without lugging it all the way to the kitchen down flights of stairs. The H500m and motherboard is damn heavy. In short, There is noway to remove the backplates that are pre-installed. Regardless the M.2 drives do seat properly. Additionally, I took out the motherboard yesterday (as I wanted to take the time out re-manage the cables to enable better airflow to the m.2s) and unfortunately the q-latch stand-offs is not easily removable. Even after taking removing the screw from the bottom of the motherboard. I tried to use substantial force using a spanner hex bit on magnetic screwdrive - no dice, all I got for the trouble was a flexing board. So, now I'm left with trying to some find compressable plastic into the Q-latch stand-off as I tried to add different diameters of screws (not self tapping) range from 1.7mm to 2.1 mm to no avail. I don't have the tools to create a plastic spring and twist that into place - I could use a metal spring but that will create a short. Nor do I have a 3d printer to make simple plastic tac that's the right dimensions.
@@FakeGordonMahUng Hi Gordon, a quick update I managed to find the screw size that will actually screw into the m.2 q latch standoff it's a diameter m2 x 8mm length and a m2 washer but... me being the idiot I am I slightly overtightened as there was some wiggle to the m.2 drives and the screw broke off in the stand off. So, once again I pulled the motherboard out and tried to mallet out the broken screw using a metal pin for measurement marking and later a small screw bit as the aforementioned tool but it got stuck. Sooo i unscrewed the q-latch stand-offs and using a spanner bit I was actually able to wiggle off the q-latch stand-offs with some force as they are also glued to the board and replace them with nylon stand-offs and tightened them down with a nylon nut. The m.2s have been reinstalled and no tape! yay. When I pulled everything out 3 days ago I cable managed everything and moved the GPU 8 pin x2 power cables so that they no longer over hang the gpu from the bottom. The m.2 drives have clear a path way of cool air. Anyway, it is possible to use the q-latch standoffs with stand-alone m.2s - need to use m2 screws with m2 washers, given the small amount of wiggle I'd say around 2mm diameter x 9 mm length + 2x m2 washers. i used one because as I said like the idiot I am I decided to work on the pc at 2 am in the morning as it was bugging me to no end - the tape kept coming off the drives.
Honestly for practical use, an optane drive will be much faster perceptually for most tasks than any of these disks. Plus with an optane drive your data is actually saved permanently instantly, no caching or risk with power loss.
Now big question; If AMD made high end 5.0 lanes AM5 APU ( instead of 4.0 ), could that APU benefit from Gen-5 NVME SSD speeds in AAA sandblox op games, and 3D Autocad program ? even if APU is powerful that requires 280mm AIO cooler.
Now that Optane is reasonably priced, people are into more than just the 60, and 118GB Optane drives Those 118GB drives used to be over $200, now they're $70, same story for the 960GB, used to be near or even over $1000, now they're as low as $369
From what we've heard there is still a lot of stock available, and the price of the 905p continues to hold at it's lowest point: www.newegg.com/intel-optane-ssd-905p-series-960gb/p/20-167-463 -Adam
@@RP-ej1fm PCWolrd posted where i got mine *new* below, they've been on sale since like September, no one bought them when they were $1000+ but $359-$400 is reasonable for what you get
Interesting. Great deal but I think this is a little less attractive since you have to plug this in a m.2 slot correct? I have the pcie version and I’ve never seen those go down in price new. On a side note I use my optane as a windows boot drive and it makes everything so incredibly snappy. Due to the SSD price crash I recently purchased 4 - 2 TB WD SN850x drives and put them in raid 0 from the bios. I can pick and choose which drive to use for the best performance.
Look at those random numbers. Getting beat by SK Hynix Gen 3. Unless you are moving a ton of data all the time, there is no reason to pay more for Gen 5.0 at this point.
The price of these drives seems reasonable at a little over $200 for 1 TB, but will I have to pay a small fortune for a motherboard that recognizes it?
to be honest it sounds cool but i game and do some work but my sn850x is making things feel instant already and i dont think it will effect me much lol thanks tho great video as always
I just dont see the value at this point atleast for average PC user or gamers for anything besides maybe gen 4. I have all gen 3 m.2's and am more than happy with them they are nice an snappy, even loading times in the forspoken demo are decent. The only utility I see at this point is being about to use the gen 5 interface to lower it to 2 lanes and maybe get more m.2/PCie devices on the same mobo. Maybe in the future as it matures it will find a niche but right now I am not seeing it.
Won't be interested in Gen 5 until the random is significantly faster and they're affordable. I got two P41 2TBs now for like $160/each... Don't get too hot either, so long as you have some sort of thermal interface to transfer the heat out of the motherboard.
I have my cooling setup to blow out hot air from the top, positioned right over the cpu and ssd. Two 140mm Be Quiet fans in front, with one fan blowing towards the ssd. So far, I rarely reach 60c.
it's absolutely worth it! if, then! bububut! only if U can keep it cool !! either needs a water block, fan HS with temp sensor! the gen 4 even has serous overheat problems! but U should be fine if U'r a gamer & stuff! & there R several ''windowsOS'' bugs that contribute 2 heat. I just hope the MFG either finds ''a good design'', or something? good luck all !! but yes gen 5 is super nice! & mother board esthetics means everything!!!
Nvme drives were such a mistake, they take up way too much space on the motherboard. If they stood vertically out like PCIe cards, okay, but they don't. For some reason they are all mounted flat on the motherboard and boy is it a huge hit in motherboard real estate.
1:37 Gordon's Testing Rig .. yeah the "Pros" at work here. 🤦 Real World .. absolutely no one would notice any difference between any decent M.2 PCIe 3, 4 or 5!
Im glad I didnt wait for gen 5 as if they had released the gen 5 when the motherboards came out for x670E then i am have got one but has I fitted 2 x1TB and 2 x TB M.2 on my asus hero I dont need them anymore LOL all Gen 4
