I had such a great time chatting with you Carol, I really appreciate being a part of the conversation you put out here! It was therapeutic in a lot of ways to talk about my frustrations and my perspective with another lesbian who gets it without having to explain so much, because I'm truly no debater and can't neatly tie up every issue. I'm just happy to have found some community in the audience you've grown. And thank you for the supporting screenshots 🤭
Thank you for sharing yourself with us. You were a pleasure to listen to. I'm very much like you, except older and sans gf/fiancee. I am also quite disillusioned by lesbian erasure and balk at the idea of dating apps due to censorship if I hint at "terfness." I applaud your honesty and good luck on your upcoming nuptials. Cheers!
You are literally telling my story. Beard, being diagnosed with PCOS, birth control, didn't help much. Some docs said i had it, but some said it's not PCOS. No problems with kids, i have three. Sorry maam, it's your nature. XXI century, male get to have smooth face, i dont x) I love the confidence growing the beard, i wish i had that. And i love your honesty guys. The king is naked, finally.
Dear Carol, I just wanted to express my profound support, as a gay man, for my lesbian sisters-you and Kim and all the rest. I will not accept gay erasure. I will not accept lesbian erasure.
And i will not tolerate women erasure either. The idea that men are appropriating all accepts of femaleness including our lesbian sisters.....geez...this is misogny at a scale that we havent seen EVER. And the silencing tactic that go with it is pure aggression, abuse and dismissive. Will this ever go away?.
Carol you are fabulous and I so appreciate the content you make. As a lesbian in my 50s it's been very difficult in recent years to find lesbian content that reflects my beliefs. Keep up the great work that you do on behalf of our lesbian community ❤
Yes! Her peaking is pretty similar to mine. I was all for the “gender is separate to sex, trans people are changing their gender” argument for years too. Then I realised that was no longer the argument. You now have people adamant that you can change your biological sex by taking cross sex hormones or even by saying so. This is when I first started to question a lot of it and actually started listening to people criticising it.
@@springwood1331 then the “sex is a social construct” idea caught on. After looking into queer theory now I realise exactly where all these insane ideas truly stemmed from.
Ugh! I’m a tomboy I’m constantly being called “they them “ I’m like no I’m a she and I’m in my 40s. It’s one thing if I’m a gen z but stop assuming I’m a crazy they them-er
@@miroirs-jumeaux yeah, ok pal. 🙄 Really I consider myself a dyke but that term has been taken over too. I’ve been gay since the Mid 90s when it wasn’t cool.
This annoys me so much... recently i found this subreddit about butches who lift weights and flex. And like usual when i find a group for the extremely small minority subset i am a part of, its taken over by other people. Biological men flexxing their muscles in that group. You have GOT to be kidding me.
I used to be in the ButchLesbians Reddit. I left because so many ppl were trying to redefine what “Butch” meant and of course, the men on there looking for affirmation
@@Twinklestar132 not surprised. Idk why I keep redownloading reddit it just annoys me. Let me tell you one of the craziest examples, I'm a lesbian who came out late, that's a very small percent of a already small minority so you could understand why an online community is important. I was invited to the discord and when I said there's a bunch of non lesbians in here was told look at the title. Oh my bad, I didn't click on and zoom into the name to see there's actually a plus sign after late bloomer lesbians, so it's for everyone now. Like come on, how do you people understand coming out late as a gay person, why can't we have a space without a bunch of other people speaking for us damn
@@Spinner773 This is why I often bow out of joining any reddit groups, as much as I would love to. So many "kind, tolerant, bs*ers" that won't take a real stand. Still, isolation sucks. Ugh!
I absolutely love your content, it's always so honest and super down-to-earth... 💜💜💜 I agree that the whole "goldstar" thing is problematic. I know two lesbians that ended up deciding to transition after being bullied for not being goldstar lesbians... They were convinced, by others, that they weren't real lesbians because they weren't goldstar, so in their minds they thought they had to be men instead. The whole goldstar thing has always hurt us lesbians. It's sillly, ungrounded and profoundly divisive. 💔
i feel like the opposite is an issue as well though, i see many people sneer at "goldstars" that theyre "privileged" even if they went through horrific traumatic things and suffered severely due to homophobia, or will tell them that they couldnt possibly really know if theyre lesbians bc they "havent even tried" men first so they must be lying or pretending. i even saw someone who got called out for saying something about how lesbians deserve r*** and their response was something along the lines of "oh thats not what i said, i was only talking about goldstars specifically" as if that somehow makes it okay or makes it any less vile to say
People need to develop a thicker skin. I really don't buy it that those 2 people transitioned because they weren't gold start lesbians...or rather because of the bad perception other lesbians had of them. That makes no sense. They probably transitioned for more complex reasons that this one. Honestly, people are part of multiple groups and they could have left the group if it was such a great problem. The concept of goldstar is a thing only in the lesbian community, which is a very small one and usually hidden, and even there only among very few lesbians. It just makes no sense. Maybe it was a factor among many other factors.
WOW. My favorite conversation you’ve hosted so far. Such a wonderful conversation about sexuality and discovering who you are. Thank you Kim and Carol.
I've seen plenty of trans-IDing men calling themselves "lesbians", but I very rarely see them claim to be "BUTCH lesbians".(i've seen that once, iirc) The whole AGP fantasy with these guys, seems to be imagining themselves to be dainty little anime girls; "Butch" seems like the LAST label 99% of these guys would want to associate with. Too much like admitting that they aren't "feminine" or "girly" at all. I've seen a sizable trend in younger ftm's, adopting this idea that "trans boys can be feminine, too!!" (So "trans" now means actual, biological girls, presenting feminine?!?) Popular enoug to have whole Reddit communities around the idea... But I haven't seen mtf's loop back around on their own sex, the same way. I'm not claiming it NEVER happens... Just that it seems to be crowded out by the standard AGPs, who watched too many "Sissy hypno" videos, and are obsessed with being "girly" and "femme".
That`s true, I`ve never seen it. Not even once. the whole mtf world is based on hyperfeminity. They insist on calling themselves `transgirls` and obsess about traditional female rights of passage (the biological and things like `sleepovers`). Maybe the fact these men think they are lesbians is bad enough, it doesn`t really matter, if they`re trying to be `butch lesbians`.
I'm so grateful to Stone Butch Disco, but I really appreciate what you said about the top/bottom stuff. I'm a femme who has struggled with sex & gender dysphoria, essentially because I like topping. So it's important to me that butch is not the only alternative to trans. I'm a huge advocate for butch-femme, but our similarities are more important to me than our differences. Because I'm femme, I never thought of myself as trans, but I strived for androgyny and lived with an eating disorder for many years. I've heard feminine trans men and non-binary people say that they never felt butch enough, and transition allowed them to be comfortable being feminine, without the cage of womanhood. I feel like this could easily have been me.
@@idobelieveinfaeries this whole idea of top bottom should be done away with tbh. I understand that the words are simple and get to the piont but it’s male language and I personally hate it. Some lesbian love to be the giver of pleasure to her women and some love to receive this pleasure. But most of us love both and when women come together it is usually very egalitarian. And also yes, many woman struggle with sex dysphoria, butches don’t have a monopoly on it. Thanks for sharing.
Kinda, but also is more of a descriptor of what one wants in a sex act. It’s definitely more used by gay men. I’m not sure of the historical aspect of it. I don’t like it. I think it’s nonsense.
When y’all were talking about women who get off on having sex with men but only on a superficial level, and only like women when it comes to genuine relationships beyond just sex, I audibly said “Oh” out loud. That explains me and I don’t think I’ve heard about other women like that before. I’m sexually attracted to men but only in a superficial way. When it comes to a genuine romantic relationship, I can only imagine myself with another woman.
I don’t know if that is quite it. In my wife’s case she was still trying to be straight/bi and the way she managed that was to just use the men. She says she’s never been attracted to men. I would say I’m the same. I actually didn’t like sex with guys at all but forced myself to do it. Not sure how Kim exactly feels on this subject. I will say this, it is sometimes complicated. I think there is some truth to the sliding scale of sexuality, for some people.
@@SourPatches2077I guess for me personally, I’d say that I’m physically attracted to some men, but not interested in a real relationship with them. A real relationship just seems unappealing. I’m also on the younger side and haven’t really had enough experience to have a fully fleshed out perspective on this.
I relate a lot to you. Kind of. I am actually repulsed by the idea of sex with a man. I'm on the younger side too and I've struggled to find the line between "febfem" and lesbian esp non-goldstar lesbians. Because sometimes an older woman that calls herself a lesbian will say something about past relationships/sex with men and hinting at some level of attraction there and I'm like... am I more of a lesbian than you? Because what even counts as real attraction if the idea of sex with a man repulses me? I wouldn't count a straight woman as bisexual if the idea of having sex with a woman disgusted her. So why am I applying a double standard to myself? And then the idea that I should self-exclude from all lesbian spaces depending on what conclusion I draw? Idk it just gets frustrating and I wish there wasn't so much discourse around labels. We're all same sex attracted females, why does our feelings about men have to matter so damn much?
@@Sarah-lv6ms I first heard the term febfem from Brittany/ASlightlytwistedfemale. If I have to put a label on myself then that seems like the most fitting one. A little off topic: I’m also pretty butch/masc in my interests and presentation, but those are usually used in the context of lesbians. I usually stick to using the term “gender non conforming”.
What episode of stone butch disco podcast are you on. I find your perspective fascinating and you have a very relaxing voice but at the same time can feel your fierce strength.
I'm a bisexual woman but I don't think bisexuals should go into lesbian only spaces. It's a respect thing and now after everything L's have been through I think L only spaces are important more than ever.
I think spaces that center around female same sex attraction should exist and shouldn't have to use terms like "sapphic" or "queer." And that spaces for exclusively homosexual women that have never been attracted to a man should exist. The problem is there's a lot of confusion around which is which. And the second type of space always devolves into goldstar discourse and pushing out the women who might be marginally bisexual...
Did we say they should? I don’t recall that. Personally I’m on with bi women in lesbian spaces as long as they keep the man talk away. The issue I get is having to hear them talk about men.
@@SourPatches2077 No you didn't say they should. You said they can if they are with a lesbian and I agree with that. I think the lateral violence from the trans community towards lesbians has been predatory. I think you need your own spaces to heal. Plus its ok to exclude. Its ok to exclude males identifying as trans and its ok to exclude bisexual women.
@@Sarah-lv6ms I really like this idea and I agree. I have mostly lesbian friends and I've been observing what they have been going through for years and its heartbreaking. Spaces for women who are same SEX attracted are great but I think lesbians should be aloud to say we want lesbian only spaces to. I've been hanging out with Radical Feminists (because I kept on getting called one). So maybe my perspective is being infludenced by that.
OMG, the past six months have have been insane with trans colonizing of all things intersex; I understand so much better what y'all have been forced to deal with. 😡😢🤪
I thought I was straight until my early 20s too (not particularly butch). Then I decided I wanted to be queer - thank you queer theory for my lesbian life since! I never identified with the bi label though technically I might be - though the memory of how men smell funny might make me slightly question that. I also very strongly felt I never wanted to go back to men and didn't like the heterosexual relationship dynamics. I also preferred cute androgynous guys with long hair and was interested in crossdressing (both ways) long before I was interested in same-sex relations. And hard agree on the waffling on Stone Butch Disco, but I think it might be partly just a personality issue - hell, she makes excuses for half an hour about her cat coughing in the background too!
a lot of women that are attracted to men don’t like how men act and often treat them in a sexist way. that doesn’t make them lesbians. you just sound bisexual with a preference for women
Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS). Symptoms include, increased facial & body hair ( hirsutism), irregular,& often painful, periods, weight gain, often cysts on ovaries. Can often be familial ( other women in family may have it). Hope that helps 🙂
@@lindyfenwick6052 i know of it, and i know women taking T just get the same as PCOS which is why they have facial hair patterns not of men, but of women with PCOS.
Wonderful topic 🎀 Thank you. Appearance Sex Gender Sexual orientation Fluidity Non gender X gender Intersex Top Bottom Switch Femme Butch FTM Two Spirit Māhū (modern context) Are just labels. Everyone is slightly different. When I date and fall in love with someone, i am very much demisexual and sapiosexual. I'm not in love with your organs or size of the body parts. So long as my love is healthy, fit, joyful, kind to herself/himself/themselves, has a plan, working on emotional intelligence, self compassion, and a relatively healthy relationships with others and realities. I can fall in love with all kinds of combo and package. I prefer partners that want children and willing to spend immense time with grandmas, children and grandchildren to pass on heritage as an indigenous. Raise children the Swedish style. They must have solid practice of sustainable living and ecosystem conservation. Perhaps more nurturing, gentle, living extremely organic, nonviolent, gifted parenting skilled, demisexual, sapiosexual, and polygamous. Intimacy - I'd say 50% of my experience regardless of what labels they had were potentially spledid. 50% were horrendous regardless how much we practiced. Some people are not just talented in understanding another body. If I must communicate, I have to confirm if they are switch. Labels don't matter to me. If we love each other like crazy, that's what counts for romance. I insist in calling Two Spirit as Two Spirit and Māhū as Māhū if that is what they identify as. It is a high social status title that's been here for a long time and it is inappropriate to disrespect them to call on any other labels.
Well if you `...prefer partners that want children and willing to spend immense time with grandmas, children and grandchildren to pass on heritage as an indigenous. Raise children the Swedish style...` then you`re straight and you want a straight partner.
@@barryledgister4496 All my partners are cis female. I adopted and also hired surrogate mothers. I have sperm and egg donors in Japan and EU. So, no, we didn't have any cis males in our family. My first 5 children are adults now. In Sweden, you don't gender a child until they are old enough to know themselves. They play with all kinds of toys and wear all kinds of colors. My hope is to have 5 more children.
