Pepper Spray: A False Sense of Security 

You can find links to gear and training here: kitbadger.com/pepper-spray-a-false-sense-of-security/

I couldn’t disagree with you more on this one. Pepper spray is immensely useful. There are infinitely many situations that can arise the fall below the level of requiring lethal force. If that threshold is reached, then you move using lethal force (which is why we carry guns and knives). Still, even if you have no lethal option, I would argue that pepper spray is way better than nothing. I think ultimately what you are saying is that people who cary pepper spray don’t train with it/know it’s limitations. That is for sure on average true; however, the remedy is to educate people on benefits and limitations of different tools and encourage proficiency with all the tools we carry for self defense.

As John Correia from Active Self Protection says, "Its good to have something between a strong word and a gun."

I've gotten hit with OC as well as CS more times than I can count, never had it reactivate "days" later. One good shower with cold water and soap has always served me well. Working in a level 5 prison I usually have an exposure bare minimum once a month, it's not the most fun thing in the world but at the end of the day OC is a very effective tool in gaining compliance during non lethal force situations. Yes some people shake it off quite well and keep moving but the vast majority of people are temporarily debilitated by it. I've had many many inmates do a complete 180 and go from highly aggressive and combative to complying 100% just from removing my OC from the pouch and giving it a shake.

Pepper spray certainly has its place. One is in places where people cannot carry any other means of self-defense like firearms. Also, those who carry firearms should probably have a non-lethal method like pepper spray to deploy because you don’t want to just go to your firearm if somebody comes up and start swinging at you. Pepper spray is not magic, but it can give many people just the few seconds they need to get away from a situation. Even if the person is determined to keep attacking, they will be at a significant disadvantage, although there are exceptions. I would say overall, there’s nothing wrong with it but you are right and that some people may be overconfident by just carry pepper spray.

I carried mace in the pocket along with a concealed handgun for a few years as a non-lethal option. I think that’s a decent use case. You made some good points.

Overall I agree. I was also pepper sprayed in the police academy. Your video mainly covers deadly force situations, which I agree OC is not suitable. However even if spraying someone doesn’t stop them, I think their ability and effectiveness would decrease. Pepper spray / oc isn’t magic, the same way a firearm isn’t. But it can be useful.

I carry it as a non lethal option in concurrence with my M2.0 M&P9C with TLR-1HL, not in place of. Just another tool.

Your scenarios describe O/C spray being used in deadly force encounters, which it isn't meant for, and suggesting the use of a blade instead of O/C is legally ridiculous. O/C use can apply to situations where deadly force is not appropriate, and that is the benefit.

I really appreciate the message that must be understood for all defensive tools: it is not a talisman, it does not do what you want by mere possession. Training, practice, and thoughtful equipment selection and set up ALL still apply. That said, different tools for different purposes. OC is for physical threats, not for lethal threats. All the well-reasoned arguments presented can also be said of a gun. A not-as-motivated lethal threat will be stopped more easily by a gun than a drugged out psychopath. When OC is deployed with proper technique it MAY diminish the aggressor, but I'd rather have a diminished aggressor, motivated or not, than an unaffected one. And the situation dictates: if this is a lethal threat, that's why we carry handguns also. I don't believe OC is as niche as you claim, but I really respect the overall message and manner in which you presented it.

Completely missed the point of what OC spray is used for. “When it comes to real violence, this is not a thing.” OC spray is used to stop an incident from becoming “real violence”. OC spray is to be used BEFORE it’s go time, IF you have the time/option.

5:35 That spray moment… 😂 The fight for your life.

Prisons are a great place to see this test. Much stronger cans with more range and more chemical agent. Still a motivated prisoner/inmate cannot be quarrelled by this. They'll still go on to fight 4+ COs. The sole benefit to pepper spray, mace, etc is maybe bought time through disorientation but adrenaline gets used to a non-lethal burning sensation pretty fast and hands on is the only option. That false sense of security spreads rampant throughout prisons/jails around the country especially in reference to COs with no open hand skills. Great video and great points.

I agree with this sentiment, but swinging too far in the opposite direction to -- pepper spray has no place - is still bad. Its place is for less than lethal threats. Someones "toolbag" doesnt need to be limited. Verbal Skills - Physical skills - gun / having to shoot someone as the only options is worse than verbal - pepper spray - physical - gun. The important thing is about knowing what to use at what time. If pepper spray works in a scenario thats great problem solved, if it doesnt then you just continue through your options.

I'm a correctional officer, when I got sprayed at the academy it took me 30sec to feel the effects I was able to do my strokes and activate on the radio. I've seen a video from an incident in my unit this severely mental inmate was self harming and protocol is to spray he kept self harming sprayed him with 6 cans and 2 big cans he was not fazed. Was justified by the director and state gov. We had a cell extraction team all big and tall guys they polled on the inmate and he threw them off. Inmate was tall and a big muscular guy threw the officers off him and there was 5 guys on top. I'm issued pepper spray and work a lever 4 yard and I dot feel like that's enough.

I have a knife... pepper spray and a gun....

I keep a big can at my door which is chained because I can fire the big cannister through the crack which this is great for, the large cannister isn't lost , stays there , lays down a BIG strike, but if they decide to continue the gun fires next

Great post. The bottom line of self defense and personal safety is to actually stop the threat in its tracks while giving you the greatest advantage possible.

It seems like you're focusing on OC being a countermeasure for a deadly force encounter. Pepper spray is definitely not a good option for a deadly force encounter, but not every encounter is deadly force, so you can't (legally) pull a gun on someone who is non-violent or hasn't gotten violent yet. It's definitely possible to overcome being sprayed, but it's still a "situation dictates" tool, and probably not a good choice for an already determined attacker. You mock people for having an "emotional attachment", but come on dude, recognize your own bias here. This very much has the "there is NEVER a reason to have a gun" energy.

When someone gives you their opinion based on actual real world experience it's wise to listen. (as opposed to someone who's experience is sitting in a chair theorizing about life after watching TV or videos)

I got into law enforcement back before the days of the taser. Pepper spray is extremely effective assuming you use it the correct way. Ever since the introduction of the taser, I have saw new officers use OC spray incorrectly because they do not get as much training on it as they once did. Having said that, it is an extremely useful tool for law enforcement assuming it is deployed correctly. Another misconception is that all OC sprays are created equal. They are definitely not. Your oil-based OC spray with an MC rating of 1.3 or higher is far more devastating than the water-based lower rated sprays.

No one is more effective at anything after being sprayed.

Look, I understand what you are mentioning. However, what pepper spray did you volunteer to get sprayed with? Was it Sabre Red? That one I agree isn't good enough. However, what if you got hit with FOX 1.4? I heard that one is one of the most powerful pepper sprays out there. I never had to use it but I carry 2 canisters of FOX 1.4 with me everywhere. Just in case, I also carry a kubotan.

Not all pepper spray are created the same. They DO work. Best used with the best tool you have available: your awareness. These in conjunction with a blade or a tac pen, you can get away and/or defend yourself as efficiently as possible while out and about.

If you think someone is coming to do you harm OC spray is not the tool to reach for. With that said, everyday encounters are rarely that straightforward. A belligerent drunk guy in your face certainly can escalate into harm but rarely starts at that level. OC spray might very well be better tool to escape the situation.

Kept a can of OC spray in my truck, work great in those road rage situations when someone wnats to fight. Agree with you, it has it place, all tools have their limitations.

Pepper spray is a non lethal tool. A tool will do little if you don't train for it. Anyone who carries pepper spray should look at the force continuum and remind themselves the time and place for the tool. Is it better than nothing? Yep. Is it a magical tool that protects you against all things and should be the only thing you ever need? Nope. If someone is not comfortable carrying a blade or a knife will I still recommend pepper spray as an option? Yes... with training, practice, and them understanding what it is and what it isn't.

Pepper spray is still effective against motivated individuals. If you spray someone it's going to disorient them and as a result, increase your chances of using a knife effectively against said someone should they press the attack after being sprayed

Always great intro music and glad to see Beyond getting swagged. Great insight on PS one that needed to be voiced…

I worked as a correctional officer and I've been sprayed and tased I've also seen both used on people with really bad intention. Tasers worked sometimes and like you said the pepper spray didn't do what it was supposed to do every time and that was a big can not some little thing you can carry in your pocket it took going hands on to stop it. Personally there's no way in hell I'd rely on pepper spray and I wouldn't let my family rely on pepper spray for much of anything. And I agree I think it gives people a false sense of security...

Thanks for the laugh Ivan, I love your style. I remember being at the range with my wife a while back and I used her expired pepper spray very similar to the one you had in this video on a silhouette target at about 5 meters and I remember laughing at how underwhelming it was. I hope this video gives people a reality check. I think also worth mentioning is the fact that once you deploy any kind of pepper spray or OC against someone else you will inevitably be exposed to it as well once the fight goes hands-on.

I’ve been sprayed going through the military and then civilian police academy; it sucks. Personally never deployed, but I’ve been on calls where it was used. The effect it has on people varies and if they go hands on with you it’s probably going to be transferred back to you. I’ve also been inadvertently sprayed when the wind shifted and person deploying it wasn’t paying attention. I agree that I would rather be tazed than sprayed. The only thing I’ve seen pepper spray good for is dogs.

You gotta have your expectations straight - OC spray is not really to repel deadly force, someone trying to kill/rape etc. As another channel here says - it's something between a harsh word and a gun. There are a lot benefits, for example - if you feel some tensions arising but nothing is really happening, you can always pre-stage the spray in your pocket, with your hand in the pocket, and be ready. It's also a way to introduce someone to some level of self-defense with tools when they are not ready for firearms at all.

So just because it's not 100% effective in every situation...... don't bother? "Well they seem pretty intent on killing me, might as well just let them." This is probably the worst take on use of pepper spray I have heard.

I actually used my Pom OC the other day! I caught a fisher (a 15lbs weasel) trying to get into my chicken coop. I could have shot him, but that would’ve put rounds in the coop, so I hosed him down with my OC spray. He looked up at me like, “WTF dude!?!“ and then ran off, so I suppose that’s a win👍

I carry and have a pepper spray on me but you had a very interesting perspective on OC. Thank you for all your hard work I really enjoy your videos

Is pepper spray effective? Not if you don't know how to use it properly, but if you use it against an attacker your chances of being able to get away increase over not having anything at all.

I agree that it wouldn’t stop someone who is in a kill or be killed mode.

I really like your videos. I feel there is a lot of RU-vid channels that are mostly just looking for likes, etc. (I get that) but yours is very good for general information that is no nonsense, just information. Very good keep it up

So I would like to chime in with the "have you ever seen someone carry one on the belt", I work retail in central VA there is atleast six people who I have seen that do.... Along side a Bowie and hatchet and throwing knifes, all on the same dude looks exactly how you think they would, trenchcoat and all.

My 73 year old mother carries a pom pepper spray on the strap of her purse and an lcr 38 i got her in a pocket of her purse. I havent been able to get her to carry on her person as much as id like, but she does carry in her purse every day.

I can see some specific cases where a civilian with pepper spray is better off. My mind goes to all those cars surrounded in riots.

I’ve had to pepper spray multiple people(used to live in the ghetto with lots of homeless in CA). Super effective, like anyone wants to get sprayed, just pulling it out ends the fight 90% of the time

I wouldn't even try to use standard pepper spray on a dog. I have personal experience shooting a feral dog with a firearm 9mm and having it still coming for me.

It's like any other tool, learn to use, learn what it's capable of, and what its not capable of. Even a handgun is rather ineffective if you don't know how to use, or what to expect when you use it. Pepper spray is a extremely useful tool, while it mostly likely will not full stop someone intent on killing you, that was never its job. Its intended as a pain compliance to stop a altercation before it begins, or to equalize, or give the upper hand in a altercation. It's not intended to "win" a altercation.

I didn’t know you were a cop too Ivan. Thank you for all of your service. I am the opposite of you when it comes to Tasers. Spray me with OC over being Tased again. I hate the effing Taser!

A Good Brand Of Pepper Spray Is A Serius Thing Pal And Works Not in All Situations Maybe If Is Only You Can Carry.

I found your channel as YT autoplayed you following a Forgotten Weapons vid I was listening to. So, w/ hands dirty & covered in Eezox, I kept listening. Hearing unadorned & unapologetic TRUTH, I kept listening. You kept to the facts and the reality - whether people wanted to actually hear it, or not. If somebody gets perhaps a bit "offended" by that - BUT later follows your advice - He or she may have saved their own lives or the lives of family/friends. Subbed. And thank you.

Unfortunately a gun is not universal in the field of self defense. As much as you may want to, you cannot shoot someone who throws a drink or punch at you.

I carry mine clipped in my left pocket, but it frequently fall into my pocket or breaks off the clip, so it's definitely not a consistent thing. I agree it's not ideal for a lethal force encounter. I carry mine with a gun simply for situations that wouldn't require or justify lethal force. If I'm walking my dog, I hold it ready in my hand to ward off other dogs (she was attacked last year and lost an eye). I also carry it when running since running shorts don't do a good job holding a gun even as small as an LCP II. I got one for my wife, and she either leaves it at home, at the bottom of her purse, or in the glove box, so it's essentially useless. She just doesn't have the mentality to prioritize defense or observation, so it's a lost cause anyway.

I haven't watched the whole video yet but I'm disappointed you didn't spray yourself. I bought two cans and used one on myself, after that personal experience, I'm a carrier for life.

There's only thousands of videos right here on youtube showing pepper spray to be extremely effective. Even with people fumbling to get it out. It's a real security.

It depends on what you expect from it. If your a hard target, pepper spray or not, your a hard target. But if your proficient with a knife or baton, adding the pepper gel in your weak hand can be the deciding factor when you face a knife wielder. Even a sudden spit can distract anyone, much more when you hit them with two short pepper bursts followed by a baton strike to the collarbone? Any weapon, even a gun can give anyone a false sense of security. I prefer to view my pepper gel as a distraction tool, for my other tools to hit home.

I understand you are here to sell your courses, but don't underestimate how useful pepper sprays can be.

Got carry permit and carry always , carry knife, self-defense training. I carry some because I want an option for the drunk ahole that doesn’t deserve to die for being a drunk. Everything else gets holes. Situation dictates.

Not here to bash since I'm sure you were referencing that tiny container. If not, test your theory with another video of you rushing someone from 15yds while the person is spraying you with bear spray or another reputable 4oz can (such as Fox or Vexor). Pepper spray will have a measure of effectiveness if the spray stops you in your tracks or you fail to reach the sprayer. However, it should be noted, in a dynamic situation the sprayer usually retreats backwards during the spray. So, in spite of the backward retreat, your argument will have a measure of validity if you're still able to close the distance and take the opponent to the ground. Looking forward to seeing you test your theory...

I 100% agree with you. I tell all my friends who ask for recommendations on pepper spray is to NOT. You have two boulders on the end of your hands and a carry gun. If a sitauation arrives where you can't de-escalate with either of those, pepper spray will NOT help.

Your ‘false sense of security’ argument can be applied to absolutely anything, from firearms to axes. Of course someone can still be victimized despite having a paper spray. People can still be victimized despite having a gun. Especially if we’re talking about ordinary people considering that even trained professionals can still be victimized despite having a gun. Police officers are murdered everyday and they are armed and trained. Anybody who step out of their house with fearless Superman complex because they have a paper spray or gun most likely will end up dead if confrontation ever actually comes.

Completely on point.

500 dollar fixed blade: false sense of value

Can you accurately shoot weapon with a spray? I agree average individual fumbles it in moment of truth.

Bro, get any two guys you want together in a place. Arm one with pom, and the other with a fake knife of any length. Start the two at 20' apart, and say go. The guy with the pepper spray is going to have the other guy on defense in just about every situation. Typically an attacker knows they are armed, and postures with this in mind. So concealed pepper spray that's pulled out and used properly is a major advantage. Especially is countries or places where knives and guns are illegal to carry. To sum up here, you're trippin. Pepper spray, quality pepper spray, with some very minor training, can go a LONG way.

OC used first (if practical) makes you harder to prosecute.

How many times does a bad guy who is 15 yd away scream,"I AM COMING TO KILL YOU!"? ... That simply isn't the vast majority of crimes. This is such an unconvincing video IMHO.

Are you referring only the keychain size or are referring to all sizes? I have a pepper spray, that I one time tested in my bathroom; and it took just one short spray into a cup to nearly overwhelm my entire apartment. The one I have is a fogger btw.

Depends on what you’re using, I guess; different concoctions have different effects.

Two eyes 👀! Use a 😎 bright 🔦. Better than a fool throwing rocks at you. Old school big light. If applied right. It does work. Many times. It takes the mean out of them.

You do you.

The active self protection guy would disagree lol.

I agree, carrying that little can of pepper spray is basically pointless unless using it for viscous dogs. I've worked in a federal prison for the last 8 years, if you want someone to start complying, whether they are refusing to lock up, or refusing to come out of their cells, our large fogger cans of OC spray will make them comply once they are sprayed. It sucks for everyone involved but they are almost always rendered useless after they are covered head to toe in it.

Had the pleasure of being pepper sprayed, still hate it. Lol

Awhile ago I was a security dude for a hospital and one of the things we utilized for dealing with people getting wild was pepper gel spray. Now I have to say I thought that stuff was way more effective and direct then spray. You did have to be more accurate and had some decent range on it and you didn’t run such a high risk of getting yourself too. However in the situations where it was applied were for starters fee and far between and often before shit hit the fan. However I would much rather have had a second guy in the room to help me do what we needed and a nurse assist for maybe meds and all that then have to use that stuff alone as we discovered more often then not you sprayed and then moved as they would kinda charge you.

If you spray a homeless guy harassing and threatening you at a gas station, i guarantee you’d have a better chance at winning a hands on fight and /or escaping. The whole point is to slow someone down enough to give you an upper hand or escape without killing or seriously injuring them if they are unarmed.

Oh well ✊🏾

I agree with you & definitely catch what ur putting down BUT it might just give you the upper hand. I'd rather have it than nothing st all.

It's a great left jab, but be ready to follow-up......

Thank you for making this Vid!! Truth sometimes hurts!! #REALITY slap in the face

Kimber Pepper Blaster for aggressive dogs

Yeah agreed it's not a threat stopper thats what a ccw is for. POM brand is great for dogs or peaky Karen's that invade your space. Not every problem needs a hammer. Non lethal gives one options.

Good info and food for thought

Good to have if a dog is charging you.

I want it to use on a dog, particularly if it attacking a child.

I’m a delevery carrier I’ve seen 3 ex co workers get mauled badly so I started carrying pepper spray had to use it 3 different times I felt bad but it was that dog suffers for an hour or so or me going to hospital more than likely several times due to infections but only used it 2 out of 3 times I was fumbling with the side switch to activate it while keeping a dam Rottweiler at bay with the it’s owners packages it’s a scary situation every time and I am so tired of dog owners saying my dog is friendly when it most certainly is not but the Rottweiler incident and the owner screamed at me you were not planning on spraying my dog I told the guy dang straight I was soon as I can get the safety switch off the dam thing charged me 3 times at that point well after that problem I got rid of that can of spray they are jokes but I know what is not a joke it’s called fox labs five point three it’s 5.3 million scovals on the heat scale and this stuff is absolutely no joke it shoots roughly 15 to 25 feet stream they sell 3 ounce cans and even a 1.5 ounce can I think as well as a 12 ounce can that’s good for I think 50 one second bursts this stuff once sprayed the person from what I’ve seen on RU-vid was able to move and see for a few seconds but after that they couldn’t see because they couldn’t open their eyes I’ll probably have a family member test this out on me but if I do I will be for warning my boss coworkers family and friends due to it having some sort of green dye and ultra violet die I think as well that is mixed in to this fox labs pepper spray I bought and if it’s that good like I’ve seen videos if needed should give my female family members enough time to get away from said attacker and call the cops or maybe have them get a small pistol that can fit in the purses they carry for a last resort if absolutely needed

One of the big problems I see with pepper spray and many of it's proponents is that they give people the impression that as soon as someone raises their voice to you, spray them down and walk away. Aside from this being aggravated assault in most locations, you have just escalated the use of force without actually stopping or avoiding the threat. Does it beat harsh language? Probably. Can you rely on it to do anything? Nope.

Whole video has receding hairline energy

Useless unless used to fend off an aggressive dog. 28 yrs in LE and it never worked as desired.

You're a real kill joy 😂

I agree but it's better than nothing. I carry pom in my pocket especially when carrying a gun. But what you have to do is realize it might not totally stop someone. You still may have to fight and get away. I've been sprayed at the academy and I was able to fight through it and do what you did, but if I could have quit at that very moment I would have.

I wear it on my waste line. You'll pull a blade on someone un armed? What about byrna head shot max pepper ball

Ummm...so you're saying if a cop is sufficiently motivated to beat on you with a baton, you'd be better off tazing them than using pepper spray? ;-)

If you're going to use it on animals or dealing with a situation where you want to maintain a standoff distance but not go to lethal, I think that bear spray is the better option. More agent and more intuitive to point and deploy.

What other defensive blades do you recommend besides amtac?

Sorry, I completely disagree. Just like anything else ... it depends on the Power & Effectiveness of the product used along with the application technique. There are some Amazingly strong pepper sprays on the market today. Like the ( FOX Labs "One Point Four" ) which is Insanely Strong ! and completely blows a persons ability to function away. Sure a Gun is much more effective but if you don't happen to have a gun then this is Definitely the second best choice. WITHOUT A DOUBT ! Even if it doesn't completely stop someone it will degrade their physical abilities.

Pepper spray is used more as a persuasion and not self defense Gives them a chance to rethink their decision or prevent them from making a bad decision but if they are dead set on something you're gunna need something that tells them to stop what they are doing (9mm maybe) instead of asking.

I have a CCW & Carry and must disagree with you. The effectiveness really depends on the make, model & formula of Pepper Spray Many of the Newer formulas of Pepper Spray will put a Very motivated Scumbag on his ASS !

Get a good spray not that cheap stuff. I used sabre 3-1 on someone and starched them the lost all that attitude. I chose spray over violence due to my size I'm 6'8 245 pounds and I just feel like I'd be be beating up on little kids. So the one time I had a problem they got hosed down the the jerk sauce.

Sick beard.

My experience was identical as a cop. Ya it sucks bad. But we had to fight two people and then do a shoot no shoot drill with sim ammo. I was still able to both fight and shoot. I don’t even carry mine on duty because what’s the point it’s just as Likely to get on me to especially when I go to arrest said person after words.

I won’t even waste my time commenting.

if you have the opportunity for less lethal means, dogs are excellent.