Patreon: / overview Twitter: / movieflameprod Personal Instagram: / morgan_ross18 TikTok: www.tiktok.com... Facebook: / movieflame A break down of episode 6: We Take a Zabra to Vegas Music By: / @bail_bonds
Just too expand on the adults being in the casino complaint: in the book it was a place that was designed to trap KIDS not adults. Thats my main complaint.
Yeah thx for clearing that up but I'm still okay with the change cause even though it was designed to trap kids in there adults could still go in there and get trapped cause it is a casino realistically more adults than kids would go into a casino in Vegas
I appreciate ur explain make perfect sense for book but as tv show dose but will make sense see old people in a Casino instead just kids and this probably my one my favourite episode
@@travisshorey7296 yeah and this is a Disney Plus show so they may have had to change it cause they were worried about showing a bunch of kids in a casino in Vegas
I wish the lotus casino was more of a Dave and buster mixed with Willy wonkas factory. The idea of a casino is so boring and it’s hard to believe kids would be allow to come in and actually have fun.
They had the Dave and busters though? The vr station Grover ends up in, the arcade machines with kids playing that Grover and Augustus go through, the slot machines Percy and Annabeth go through before going into the casino section, the driving sim games shown when we first see the casino, the roller coasters outside…
Reminds me of the time I was in Nevada using the restroom at one of those casinos, I just stepped onto the game room floor and was immediately told to leave. Which is good, gambling is bad
It isn't JUST a casino though that's the thing. We only saw the casino because they had to go there specifically to look for hermes. You can still see arcade games and VR for kids. And I'm pretty sure it's called the LOTUS HOTEL AND Casino so we didn't even see the hotel because they didn't wander there at all
Interesting detail: I’ve been rereading the book “episode by episode”, to compare each section, and I was surprised to find that his dream in this section of the book does actually take place at school, with his teacher talking to someone else and Percy eavesdropping. Pretty interesting that the show got that right
definitely didnt remember that but i preferred that over the grim reaper looking kronos. idk if thats how hes depicted in the book buh if not then it feels cheap to me like the movie making hades look like the devil
The dream was with Thalia right? Then he saw the conversation between Luke and Kronos before being thrust to view Hades' throne by Kronos when he sensed him
I also kind of wish they had a small sequence of the trio having fun in the lotus casino. Somehow the movies understood this better, but I still enjoyed it.
Yeah it just wasn’t believable that THAT is a place people are drawn into. Like we as an audience should also be captivated and sucked in to the casino.
Yea this is what I wanted or them realizing there is some dude from the 70s who still thinks it’s the 70s. Other than that. None of the changes bothered me. I don’t might them bringing up Luke a bit. We still didn’t get it very detailed at all.
That's probably the only change I was actually disappointed in. Kids with adhd being trapped by lotus fumes, getting distracted, makes sense. I just wished they had a moment to have fun even if it showed for 30 seconds or less. I wanted to see Annabeth sidetracked, playing the sims, getting lost in the architecture. I was happy for Grover's moment tho
@@maciedixon3983Right, I think the lotus scene itself, them getting distracted, disappointed me. I don't mind Luke's back story. I just wished they added more fun. I adored many other moments of the episode tho
That would give the audience enough time to be just as captivated by the casino as the trio were (besides, I love Poker Face. It's funny how in the comments of uploads of that song, people keep referencing that scene from the movie).
The thing I actually find the most disappointing about this episode is that (and I hope I’m remembering this right since I haven’t read the book in a while) Percy doesn’t find out he can talk to horses when he hears the zebra talking to him in the truck. The episode is literally called ‘We take a zebra to Vegas’ but they don’t even show one! (You just get a few seconds of it running away).
5:09 I think it was a Satyr's blessing, not a Savior's blessing. In the book, Grover called it the "Satyr's Sanctuary" and said it would allow the animals to get to the wild safely. They would find water, food, shade. whatever they need until they arrive safely to the wild. I just went back and rewatched the episode. Grover definitely said, "Satyr's blessing."
I personally like the pearl thing - They know Sally is alive and I think Poseidon wouldn't want to piss off his son by not giving enough pearls for him to save both his mother, as well as his friends. My money is on the fact they might lose one of the pearls when trying to get to the Underworld.
Maybe one of the pearls fly into Tartarus when Grover is dragged. Then if we get a HOO series, Percy and Annabeth would find the pearl down in Tartarus... yeah I think I'm thinking to far
@@dankejurgen wouldnt Nico find it before Percy and Annabeth? I'm rereading hoo rn but I don't remember quite how the Tartarus stuff plays out it's been too long 😂
I wonder if Percy is going to be forced to make the choice to save someone els who can prevent the war? idk I'm sure they have some sort of plan though.
They definitely did not prove that people can’t age in the casino. I think they’re trying to show that not only kids can be lured into temptation and get stuck there.
To add on your point of why their are so many old people in the casino is that it makes more sense for older people to be there. It's marketed as a casino, so their would be more adults there than children and the adults could have very well enter the casino decades early without aging.
Yes, I was looking for this comment hahah! I am only just now watching all these videos, but I thought: Someone must've said this! It seemed so obvious to me! But I do understand the view that this doesn't make it obvious people don't age ánd they cut out the scene with the boy, which could've made that issue go aways imo
I actually like that they’re talking about May Castellan this early, since that’s the reason Luke ran away from home, and it’s the reason Luke hates Hermes. Not for giving him a side quest, but for abandoning his mom and leaving her away… and it spreads out the info over all 5 seasons instead of the lore dump we get in book 5
There is ideally 5 seasons. I agree with exploring it earlier. But I disagree with dumping THIS much. Revealing the rough patch with Hermes makes sense. Explaining the mother is just way too much. It's one of the last reveal needed to piece together why Luke hates Hermes. Book 3 or 4 feels like a better point for this
I feel like getting a more sympathetic Luke straight out of the gate is going to make the series story arc much more compelling. Like, if they play it right, Luke's motivations will look pretty understandable to the audience and if Percy can be tempted to join Kronos or not will be a real question. Whereas in the books it's a more straightforward first person POV from Percy where he just laments about how evil Luke is until book 5 where he finally gains more perspective
@@pinsandneedles3 exactly, it’s a missed opportunity in the books, especially since his quest to the garden of Hesperides, which Luke claims is the main reason he’s betraying the Gods in TLT (because he felt neglected after his dad sent him on a terrible quest) literally never comes back up again. Like shouldn’t Annabeth know something about May? About Hermes? About why Luke would betray them… Thalia doesn’t seem surprised that Luke is evil… and Luke is pretty open about his disdain for the gods even before his betrayal. Now it feels like in the show they’re setting up Luke to be a series long villain instead of someone who just wants glory and power, someone who has good intentions and is going about it the wrong way. Lastly, it’s also a great way to distinguish Luke’s motivations… in the books he’s just “my dad abandoned me so I’m acting out and joining Kronos” but so has Percy’s dad and literally every other demigod, suck it up. Now it’s more “you’re a bad dude, but we’ve met your father and seen how much a douche he is and how he treated your mother, you aren’t just whining out for not getting more attention from the Gods the Gods have genuinely wronged you.” Because they have, and you get to that realization in the books to, but not until 4 or 5… so it’s nice we get to see it from the beginning, it feels more planned that way.
but this creates a diffrent problem, now we understand luke better and can sympethise with him, this will greatly infuence how we should feel about him in the season finale where we learn he is the lightning thief and in the next season when he posion thalia's tree. at that part of the storyline we should see him more of a ruthless villian without a heartbreaking backstory.
@@Karinkishi-mheh I feel like we as book readers know way more about Luke’s lore than Percy or regular viewers do and it’s influencing our viewing of the show. All Percy/normal audience knows is that Hermes abondoned Luke’s mom, and that’s it. Which is sad, sure, but we’ve also been shown how every other demigod has gone through the same. It’s not that sympathetic because we see Percy in the same spot not being evil. It sets up that Luke has good intentions, but takes it wayy too far, making him ruthless. The part where we feel bad for him is leaning his mom is probably home rn making lunch for a son that will never return… which the show hasn’t got to yet.
I had really high hopes for this episode, I think the main problem was that the creators of the tv show wanted the casino scene to be much more different than in the movies, I think this was more because their pride got in the way since they want to redeem themselves. In my opinion, the casino scene in the movie was one of the best parts and accurate. The tv show writers wanted the tv show to be drastically different but it ended up in this mess.
Totally agree! In the movie the casino actually felt like a fun place where they could get distracted and forget about their quest. I didn't feel the same with the show and it really seemed like they were trying really hard to make it different. Rick hated the movies so much he couldn't see they actually did a great job with this scene.
1000% agree. The movie as a whole is terrible. But the casino scene is the ONE thing the movie did even BETTER than the book. That's what an adaptation is supposed to do: take what's in the book and ELEVATE it using things that can't really be used in writing (i.e. music...like Poker Face). The show took everything that made this scene special in the book and completely watered it down.
I read an interview with one of the creators and he mentioned didn't have memories from the movies in mind and just focused on the adaptation. I do think there were some aspects of the movie version that could've been used here, but to be fair? We're not having the pearl quest thing. The scene would've been a filler (like it is in the books lol). Putting Hermes there and a reason why they'd go to that place is a really nice change, I did like it. The only things I'd change would be them not knowing or realizing the whole Lotus thing right away, and also the whole other satyr stuff that I didn't like that much (but I'm always here for Grover's obsession with Pan!).
Agreed, I at least wanted the kids to all be distracted and play. I did predict the song choice. I kinda wish it was used for a montage of them being distracted
Since I have not read the books, I can only base my views on what I see before me. All I know is that I am a huge Lin-Manuel Miranda fan and I thought he did a terrific job with showing the complicated emotions of a parent in a difficult relationship with their child. And I'm really loving the trio dynamic!
I thought the driving scene was easily one of the best moments in the whole show. Also, to me personally, you might be looking into the whole “adults and elders” at the casino part too hard, as these people could’ve easily been like this when they came there possibly decades ago; you may very well be right that this was a weird change, if not though. I am also curious to see how the fact the solstice had passed may affect the fight with Ares, considering he thrives on war and a war appears to be in full effect now. I guess we’ll see how they’re going to advance this in the last two episodes.
@@HydroniteTB The fight with Ares better be good! Hopefully it'll make up for the other scenes. I feel that the show keeps cutting to black or rolling the credits just as it gets interesting.
I felt like Hermes being there quickened the process of Luke's character arc which I feel might be necessary in the future. Also, for people who haven't read the book it makes the character seem to have a darker side compared to the friendly person he was at camp. I think the changes were made for the sake of it needing to be broken down into a show, not a movie.
This I get the frustration with them alrwady knowing about the lotus eaters but ultimately they still got stuck there and didn’t realize that they’d already spent a few days there. I know we didn’t get the dim montage of the kids playing games or realizing some dude from the 70s are trapped there. We weren’t getting the kids acting high and partying though they are kids.
I get what your saying but one of the big plot twists in the book was Luke going bad. Another part about delaying his back story to the end of the series is that Percy starts to sort of feel for Luke and realize that maybe the gods aren’t that great when he has to soon chose to either preserve or raze Olympus. We then see him decide to do the good thing anyway which makes him an even better character%
Besides, I believe that it provides the non-book readers with the olympians' "other side". To a degree, they care bout their children. In their way, a little messed up sometimes, but they care. They are, to a degree "good". They are the far better option than SPOILER, Cronos and the Titans. The show has been portraing them in a pretty bad way, one that would almost justify Luke's aproach, so it is expectable they have to show in good light.
I was actively looking forward to how they would do the Lotus segment since it’s one of my favorite parts of the book. The opening was strong, but then diverging so far from the source material on this one just didn’t do it for me. the chapter in the book was a nice little segment to remind you they’re still kids. I also wish they would just stop being so quick to unraveling the mysteries of the monsters. Medusa they did it immediately, and now in the lotus. It removes that surprise and Awe moment the books did so well. Hopefully they took feedback for future seasons
I do think with medusa it made it so much better that they knew it was her from the start, but i completely agree that i wish they did not know what the lotus hotel was instantly.
@@arstan8092I get that, my big thing is the whole big thing abt monsters in the books is how they hide in the real world, it just irked me that they’ve done it twice now where the demigods who’ve never been on a quest suddenly know EXACTLY what a monster lair is. Yeah annabeth is smart, but the whole point is they’re inexperienced and many of them are young teens so it makes more sense for them to be confused
@@Bayuuk I think for medusa it truly made the scene so much more real and much more teaching overall. Medusa in the books was mainly another monster to be slain. But medusa in the series is a quite unfair story and really worked better with them knowing who she was inbefore so the discussion which came up made sense to come up. But as said i do agree that they are doing it a bit to much and that it was completely unecessary and annoying that they did it again in the lotus.
I kinda prefer they figure it out cause annabeth is supposed to be very smart. But it does take away some intrigue that way. I think it would have been fine if Percy and annabeth knew ahead of time but still got trapped a bit to rectify this some
My only real issue with this ep was just the ending really. I don't like the change of them now missing the deadline, because it's defeated the whole point of a deadline Edit: Also to nitpick you (Sorry) it's a satyr's blessing not saviour's, and it's named in the book as "satyr's sanctuary" Edit 2: I thought that the older people there was a cute idea of older people trying to hold onto their life, especially since there were other young adults wearing clothing/styles that are very outdated
During the Lotus Casino scene, I kinda wished the costume department went above and beyond and put some of the background extras in very obvious not modern clothes. This would be a very clever visual to let the audience know that people who stay at the Lotus don't age/know about the passage of real time.
literally this is what the show is missing in its largest quantity. There are so many other ways to give viewers information other than exposition dumping. I feel like they did it wayyyy too much and I feel that it was because the episodes were too short and it left the writers feeling stiffled for time. The easiest way to help with it is things like this to add to the plot without dialogue.
Wait when? I didn’t hear anything at all for that, and I was trying to spot some Easter eggs for that
7 месяцев назад
@@humairahkazi2459I think it's when Grover and the other Satyr stood in front of the kids playing vr games? I've seen that one of them seemed to use like a bow foreshadowing Bianca's arc. Apparently Nico yelling "Bianca!" was louder than any other dialog in this moment
@@humairahkazi2459 pretty sure its around 9-10 minutes in the episode, but me and lots of other people have heard it. It's sorta quiet but u can def hear it
I'm glad the movie got some praise because I'm kind of over people complaining about the movie. It's not a bad movie, just a bad adaptation...it doesn't deserve all this constant hate. It's been years as well like people are getting the accurate story with the show now. Hating the movie just feels like complaining to complain. I also think it's discrediting a whole team of producers, costume designers, writers, actors etc by hating the 2010 version. Logan, Brandon, Alexandra etc are not bad actors or bad choices. Please can people separate the movie and show.
I also agree as well. I'm glad he pointed out how the movie actually did the casino scene very good. I mean seriously even though it's a bad adaptation there were some decent things in it.
I agree. I also think it was nice that the main trio didn’t work out everything straight away in the movie (Percy cuts off the Hydra head thinking he’s a hero and only then do they realise they can’t kill it that way; the kids get distracted by the lotus flowers / casino and eventually realise they’re in the lair of the lotus eaters, and even Grover finding his uncle Ferdinand and realising they’re in Medusa’s lair…) it all just felt a lot more tense in that aspect (not saying it was a great film but I can admire parts of it) whereas in the show they just immediately know what everything is and it feels slightly anticlimactic? I do love lots of what the show is doing but the short fights and lack of tension whenever they meet a new monster / villain does bother me a little.
Spoiler alert!!!! I love how the plot twist of Luke being the thief is being gradually developed in this show. In contrast, the same twist in the movie felt too predictable. I am currently watching this show with my brother who has never read the books. When I asked him who he thought the thief was, Luke had never even crossed his mind.
I agree, I watched the movie before I read the books and in the movies I never really got attached to Luke, the show makes him into a much more likeable character. Also, I don't want to be annoying but there could be people reading the comments that haven't read the books. It would be nice to edit the comment if you can and add a "SPOILER WARNING" on top and press enter multiple times so the people who want to read what you wrote would have click on "Show more".
Yeah, blaming it on clarisse for now is smart, even if it’s a complete reach. It’s diverting a lot of peoples attention from the fact that it’s been luke all along
MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW FOR THE SERIES AND BOOKS The way Luke said “How’d you know?” in response to Percy and Annabeth saying it was Clarisse who took the bolt was brilliant. I love that it sort of implies Luke is guilty, because an innocent person would not have asked in this way. It hints what’s to come in a very subtle way.
Seriously I may have been my imagination but I swear Luke had the deer in a headlamp OH SHIT THEY KNOW look flash on his face momentarily before regaining his composure had me in stitches
I personally liked the change in the end, it sort of makes the series interesting to people who have already read the book. It makes it more captivating knowing that the gods are already fighting a war
Me too. When I read a manga first, I only watch the anime to see the iconic fights for the sake of animation, but everything else is boring to revisit. I feel as if the show replicated the books, I would watch it, but wouldn't feel anything other than "wow, this looks good". Their changing things up makes me not know what to expect, and I like that feeling of being somewhat surprised.
I feel like it takes away from the journey because everyone knows they’ve failed the quest so there’s no suspense because it’s not like there expected to finish it anyways and the book giving them about 3 days left of the quest added suspense without taking away them succeeding in the quest also why would Hermes make them lose there quest he would know his conversation was taking days and we don’t know why he would want a war
Just a cool detail I noticed: in the parking lot where the trio goes to get Hermes car, you can see that all the cars seem to be from different eras, subtly hinting that the people there have been stuck for literal decades. Its not the most obvious way to hint this and I definitely think that they should have added something else like clothing from different eras or different areas modeled after different decades.
Fully agree on most points. Too many changes from the book, and no good reason for those changes. Guessing who Medusa was before entering her lair worked cause of all the statues outside, but the Lotus Eater myth is much more obscure; really, between identifying the Furies, Echidna, Medusa, the theme park and figuring out the myth of the chair before sitting down on it, it's really time for our trio to NOT figure out what exactly is going on BEFORE it actually happening. Now, they had the twist being ''oh, time moves faster inside the building'' and apparently Hermes even explained the whole ''lotus spreads through the air'' thing off-screen to Percy. Like, have them figure it out like a puzzle, man. Have them actually fall into the trap unknowningly for once, it makes it more satisfying when they break free (and it's a change of pace from them willingly entering traps like Medusa's lair and the chair). Also, I feel like the whole Augustus thing was to drive home Grover's desire to find Pan and his lack of a searcher's license, which they could have done in so many different ways; it could have taken a throwaway line back when they first mentioned the whole thing that Grover aspires to be a searcher himself. What I did like was the animal stuff at the start (though, where's my zebra at???) and the taxi scene in the garage; I'm also witholding judgement on the whole deadline stuff at the end; I feel like it could go either way, but now it seems to racket up the tension and actually make the threat of a war happening even bigger.
My thing is I am not sure there is time to let them figure things out. There are only 8 episodes. This episode was only 33 minutes. If this was a 22 episode series I would be more incline to complain about the changes. There just isnt time
@@adrianmcfarland8966 that's exactly why we should complain about Disney cutting the episodes and making them so short. Do one hour episodes goddammit, make room for suspense and character development, you're Disney, for gods' sake, don't pretend you don't have the money or people for that
@@torsuk i agree. I feel like Disney isn’t really prioritizing it the same way they do Star Wars or Marvel. 33 minute episodes are a joke to me. This isn’t a sitcom. One thing I would have loved to see is Percy training with Luke. That was great in the book to establish that Luke was the best Sword fighter. Obviously the show did not have time for that
@@adrianmcfarland8966 I have to disagree here. Haven't most kids shows before the days of streaming been like 20-30 minutes? And they had fully contained stories in every episode. Like classic Goosbumps episodes or the Disney So Weird show are about 24 minutes per episode and those kids are always figuring out strange events and mysteries. You don't need an hour of run time of you have a good paced plot.
what bothers me most is that it is already the 6th episode and they pass an “walking in the park” vibe They don’t seem exausted and hungry like they should, like you know, someone thats been crossing the country running away from monsters, going through dangerous situations and sleeping poorly
One issue i have is that unlike the book percy and annabeth arent trapped in the casino having fun. They stay on mission so in a way they didnt mess up rather than in the book they get distracted and waste several days. But in the show they do it eight and still waste several days.
But the whole point in the book is it’s a trap for kids. It’s part of the god’s world, not ours. So it being a boring old casino adults go to bothers me.
I think the reasons to two of your main concerns are: 1. Showing Hermes and advancing so much of Luke's story now is because technically they don't have the assurance of future more seasons just yet. They need to establish not just why Luke is angry at Hermes but a depth of why he fell to kronos' manipulation by feeding not just on the anger Luke has for his dad but also the blame he has out because of what happened to his mom. Plus, bringing the Luke+May+Hermes reverse parallel to Percy+Sally+Poseidon dynamics is a nice way to mirror the difference between Percy and Luke and why they were the main opposing characters of the season. They need a solid but also overarching foreshadowing of why he is the season's main opposition to Percy now but that there's a looming threat ahead. I for one appreciate it so much that we are seeing more gods and demigods dynamics in this season rather than just one with percy and poseidon given that this is now not just a first person pov. It's a better story telling vehicle for me. 2. I think having more adults in the lotus casino rather than children is a matter of child working laws technicalities. Idk much about it I'm not a lawyer but I think it has got to do with the number of working hours, getting permits, and the environment hazard (I'm pretty sure there's smth there about showing a child in a casino the same way they couldn't show a lotus flower dr*gging sequence.) I also think it's why we get more narrative expositions than visual representations like instead of showing a visual backstory of Luke's life or Annabeth's life, they keep on telling it. Working hours for children are limited. And the post-prod was during the middle of the union strike. Idk maybe just me I get that such glaring changes from the details of the books can be triggering but we have to remember, not only that this is an adaptation but we are going from Percy's perspective only to seeing everything that's happening in 3rd eye. When I started watching this show I told myself I wouldn't pass hard judgement just yet until everything is laid out already and the full picture is clearly shown. I was thrown off about the summer solstice ending and the 4 pearls too but until everything is done, I'm holding my tongue.
i feel like you're arguing against yourself. the fact that they don't have assurance of future seasons makes it even more questionable as to why they are talking about seers and luke's mom, which we don't get till books 3 and 5. the books did it perfectly fine. all we needed as justification for him stealing the bolt was hearing about his quest (which explains his relationship with his father and how he got his scar). then as more seasons unravel the plot to resurrect kronos, we go deeper into his story and learn why he's doing what he's doing as he's doing it. front-loading some of the darkest parts of his story to the first season is just way less compelling in the long run. especially with how unnecessary it is.
I've heard it floating around a lot about Rick essentially saying F to the movies. I'm pretty disappointed by that honestly. They weren't perfect, nor super accurate, but they were fun pieces of media that could stand on their own. They brought many people into the fandom that went on to read the books. If you're unable to acknowledge the good parts of all representations of the story you only hurt yourself in the long run. It seems that this attitude has resulted in the movies portraying a lot more parts of the story better than anticipated.
i think you have to consider that they disrespected his work going completely off script and making changes that weren't even logical. he reached out many times pointing out issues and they ignored him...he even went as far as saying he wouldn't take his own child to watch the movie because they sexualized it too much. it makes sense that he'd want to ignore a project that disappointed fans and the author himself
@@ricchelleb That's all unfortunate. But regardless, it was an opportunity to build something positive from it. Seeing his recent comments throwing shade, just feels he lost sight of what matters. Differentiating feels like it was a higher priority than the pacing, tension, action & cinematography. Not to mention wayyy too much exposition going on. Which aside from book inaccuracies (which now the show does too??) the movies got those bits right, the world felt dangerous but mythical. I understand he resented the changes, but he had the reigns back and a new chance, which many authors don't get. Feels like old bitterness is stopping it from taking all the positives and moving forward into something great.
@@blu.z ofc the movie got some minor parts right but rick has had years to think about ways he wish he could improve/change about the books. this show is his opportunity bring that to life. the movie's made pointless changes but the show has intentional changes made by the author himself. it could be budget issues/hard to translate on screen/simply a change he wanted to make. it doesn't really have much to do about the movies...it's clear he wants to ignore those lol i just think it's unfair to tell him to be positive about a movie series that everyone considers to be a flop. meanwhile the show made fans happy and him happy too. its well loved and it delivered and that's all that matters really
@@ricchelleb Telling "him to be positive about the movies" is an over simplification of what I've written. My point is, they needed to use every edge they could for adapting to a visual medium. The show plays out with an excessive amount of expository dialogue. They're too caught up in changing the story, instead of getting the tension, pacing & action right from the original material. Cinematography is poorly framed and overly dark, that is when they rarely actually show instead of tell. It's just a very drab and way too subtle approach on the world filled with monsters and gods. Many love the movies as a separate thing, so I think calling it a flop is a bit harsh, given it did some of those things right. Maybe the show delivered for some, but I've been seeing increasing disappointment as each episode has aired. I wanted to really love this show, but both projects pretty much have opposing holes in what they do well/ fall quite short on. I only hope that if they get renewed they can acknowledge the weaker spots and improve on them.
I think the fact that they're past the deadline adds further stakes and tension as they can't waste time now since the war among the gods could start at any moment. And I do agree about all the stuff about Luke's mother being discussed. If they just talked about the failed quest, that would've sufficed. I do hope that the people involved with the show take the criticisms made and improve if/when they adapt the future books.
I'm gonna have to hard disagree that it is better for stakes and tension to be past the deadline. That change makes it a lot harder to take Zeus at his word, and characterizes the gods in a weird way (these are power hungry gods, they would be ready to fight BY the deadline, not start preparing on it) It also de-legitimized the point of having a deadline in the first place if they're just gonna disregard it so heavily. And if the war DOES begin, then that will be even worse, because we all know Disney is not going to make some big war filled with death especially if it wasn't in the books, and that would remove all power from the gods. I hope they don't go that route but I think the route they went is already not a good change All personal opinion though, nothing against you or anyone else who likes it of course
Also, the flowers were from the odessy. The flowers being what caused them to never want to leave was the only time the films were more accurate to greek mythology than the books, though the films still screwed up a bunch of basic greek mythology.
Since they were five books, it’ll be likely there’ll be five seasons. Unless if this season pulls a ‘Game of Thrones,’ and it cancels any future this show can have.
I actually really liked this episode. As for there being adults in the Lotus Cassino, they could already have been adults when they got caught up in it.
@@emiliamarkowska8961 granted, if that is in fact true, they could’ve done better at showing that, so I can understand why people might’ve gotten confused.
In my opinion this episode didn’t work for me because I felt they were so focused on being different from the movie that they just forgot to write an actual episode It was also incredibly short
I appreciate that any changes in the show really are a coin toss of love/hate, and each will land differently for each fan. So while I can completely understand other fans not liking this scene with Hermes, it landed as a love it for me. It set's up the emotional stakes for the series going forward. It also adds another layer of foil for Percy and Luke; 2 absent fathers one actively doing the work to connect while the other gave up on it. I think it will make the Hermes scenes in Sea of Monsters hit harder too, since this will be a step forward in Hermes' arc to do better.
I didn't read the books and you're gonna hate me for this but I think the casino was done better in the movie, mostly because they actually fall in the trap and is somewhat of a more tense scenario
yeah, minus that weird music montage, the movie did a better job on making you ask wtf, specially when percy slowly starts to notice things@@forcecaptainoverlordsuprem2964
I haven’t enjoyed the changes since Ep 4. Rick is oddly skipping over/changing pivotal points in the book that depict the dynamic between Percy and his father. Asking for Poseidon’s help before jumping out of the Arch, knowing he wants to meet Percy, then being in Santa Monica, were amazing moments in the book. Not to mention the fact that they missed the deadline and now have 4 pearls…. I’m banking on the fact that no one knows this story more than Rick, and I hope he has an amazing way to wrap this all up. Because right now, this looks bleak.
Percy never meets Poseidon in Santa Monica in the books either, it’s always the Naiad. In the series the Naiad tells him his dad wants to meet him in Santa Monica, and Percy in Ep5 talks about how he’s starting to see his dad in a different light now that he knows he wants to meet in (it’s the scene before they hide from Ares on the street.)
Exactly people have distorted memory of that chapter cause it’s the only good scene in the movie and we aren’t going to have lsd inspired sequences of partying and high kids on Disney and with 12 year olds. 😂
I like the changes like where the group is too late to prevent the war (they passed the deadline) and now they have to now get the Master Bolt back to stop it. Plus Hermes was super cool! He seemed pretty human in this episode (when he didn’t appear at all in the OG book)
I hate that I’m saying this but the casino is like the one thing that the movie did better than the show. They could have at least made them have a little bit of fun. AWhich is ironic considering Rick said he wanted people to forget those movies.
I think my main problem is constant info dumping. Like there should still be intrigue on what happened between whatever they are discussing. Specifically in Luke’s mom.
at the end of this episode they showed a preview of the next one, showing Percy walking in "Crusty's Waterbed Palace" something I was hoping they would show, but I didn't think they actually would.
I think missing the deadline actually makes sense, as Percy in the series had only a week to complete the quest, which is different to the 10 days in the book. If they spent 5 days in de casino, there's no way they could have completed the quest before the solstice. Really interested to see what the meaning of the four pearls is going to be as this erases the whole: "and you shall fail to save what matters most in the end."
In the book they spend a couple hours in the casino, but in the show it's just 20 min, so having it still be 5 days doesn't make much sense. Plus, what was the point of the deadline if they can just go past it? Everything about that change is bad. Tbf, I've been very skeptical going in with every change they've made, and aside from a couple minor ones (and most of ep2) I came out satisfied. But I still think this was too egregious and I'm not looking forward to how it might seriously hurt the story and the characters (mainly the gods). There wasn't any reason to change it either, it doesn't add anything, it just undermines all that build-up
That’s one thing I hate about the new series, they make it more laid out for the trio. In the book they figured most of it out themselves, without lots of help from the gods and others. When the gods and all are added in, it makes their quest seem easier and a little less meaningful to their development.
They have been building the characters in this show as smarter and not blindly walking into stuff. I like how they knew about the Lotus Flowers, and it was still a twist that they got stuck there. I think Hermes helped them be surprised still even when they knew about the Lotus Flower. Plus it was Hermes that delayed them and made them late.
They’re kids. That was the entire point of this sequence in the book. They don’t need to know literally everything. Taking away their vulnerability from the book is making them boring characters that can’t ever be caught off guard. In the book they were exhausted from their quest and the casino was enticing them with magic, they didn’t just blindly stay there. Knowing that they’re gonna get stuck there ahead of time kills all the tension of the sequence
@@Luke101But they didn't know ahead of time that they would get stuck there, what they talked about was they will forget if they eat the lotus flowers. They still got surprised that much time has passed.
@@Luke101but like how many times will that be the case? They get tricked into Medusa’s lair, Percy gets tricked into being alone at the top of the arch, they get tricked into the Lotus Casino, Crusty tricks them into his waterbed shop. Like at some point you have to wonder when will these kids learn from their mistakes? When will they go “yk what, maybe let’s not make a detiour.” Or go “we just let our guard down and lost all our stuff a couple pages ago, let’s not walk into a random lady’s house, let’s not stop for sightseeing and go into the sky, Zeus’ domain and Zeus wants to kill Percy. when there’s a war. Let’s not go into the Lotus casino, cause the last time we stopped to have fun it didn’t end well. Let’s not go into Crustys, cause the last time we went into someone’s house without a worry we almost got turned into stone.” At what point does “oh it’s just kids being kids” and vulnerability become stupidity? At what point does wisdom’s daughter go “Oh Lotus Casino, i research greek myths extensively so that rings a bell to the Lotus Eaters” or “There’s statues, Medusa is a character we might find.” When does the guy who grew up in Greek mythology, a 24 year old half goat who’s been seeing stuff like this his whole life go “Hey, Crusty seems weird let’s get out of here,” or “The fates tracked Percy to his school, so let’s keep changing modes of transportation to throw him off.” I get kids being kids is important, but they’re not dumb. We’re already getting a lot of that with scenes like the Percy driving scene and the hiding from Ares on the road scene. And I say this with love for The Lightning Thief novel, it relied wayy to much on the trio just going into places unsuspecting of dangers, even though 2 of them should know everything about Greek mythology. Like once sure, like the bus scene. Twice, that’s fine, like in the shows Amtrak train where they get ambushed. But how many times will they stupidly go into places when they are the last defense for a war? Percy I understand, but Annabeth is more mature than that, and so is Grover (albeit I’ll let it slide for him since he doesn’t have the confidence to speak up) Lastly, they were caught off guard in the series, by the furies and by echidna on the train sequence, as well as the chimera in the same episode.
@Luke101 Two of them stayed longer in magic world. As a demigod, Annabeth must read a bunch of Greek mythology in the camp. If there is a place called lotus and a god is hanging out there, it is very suspicious.
@@TheIndianDeity That's probably the entire reason why Rick allowed the changes. We have to consider the fact that Rick isn't the only writer for this show. He allowed the changes for the tv show platform, for the screenplay drama, and for the current time period we are in. Kids these days are different from what kids were back in the early 2000's.
This episode was sorta disappointing. I liked the change at the end, but the whole casino scene was really stupid. I actually think the movie did it better and that's the sad truth. I'm also not the biggest fan of how they keep introducing us to the different gods. It's almost like they're in a rush to make it through the entire Greek Pantheon before the season ends, which somehow makes the world and mythos feel smaller. Just a little nit-pick of mine. Don't know if anyone else feels the same way.
I agree. It's a shame they cut out the scene with the kid from the 70s. It's funny that almost the only scene that worked well in the film was done poorly here. I'm really looking forward to the next episode, it promises to be super epic!
I’ll be honest I am an apologist for the first movie but I’ve gotta say I remember the Lotus casino scene in the movie being so much fun to watch and raised the stakes of the timeline. This felt really lackluster even if it was trying to be more like the books I feel like the casino scene was one of the only things I hoped the show “lived up to” from the movie.
I’ve been hearing very harsh criticism of this episode, mainly for how there was no suspense involved in the Lotus Casino as well as their deviations from the book
The interactions between Percy and Annabeth are very cute and establish the premise of their relationship (given that we don't have Percy's POV like in the books like he explains every single scenes with his emotions). The immediate discovery of what the hotel is completely blow away the big reveal and the potential threat hanging over the characters. The film, in my opinion, was better in the sense that it was more grandiloquent/grandiose and made a real casino trap for demi-Gods. The gods' appearances really suck and lack presence. Mind you, the actors have great potential but there's no tension or fear of these divine beings because the children have absolutely no fear of them (Dionysus, Ares, Hephaistos...) The discussion with Hermes is interesting on the paradox of the Gods : the most powerful beings in the world who play with humans and yet are not free to intervene with their own children. It comes a little early but is still on point with the scene and the sets. In fact, this serie has a lot of potential and a lot of good new ideas, but it doesn't make the most of the heroic and epic nature of the saga. The action scenes are tasteless and the special effects are only average.
The Disney+ show feels like a Scott Pilgrim Takes Off type adaptation where the author is going back and changing the story to not only better suit modern audiences but make the story tighter
Then that’s not the “faithful adaptation” he promised people. There’s no reason to fix things when the book narrative doesn’t need fixing for a modern audience. The books are timeless. He’s adding new things and dumbing down what was iconic about the original story. The constant spoon feeding of exposition is so annoying and he criticized the movie for changing the plot, yet now he’s doing the same thing. The story isn’t tighter. The emphasis on the war has barely been built up, the chemistry of the characters is a far cry from the books, and all the iconic action/tension scenes have been deflated from the jump.
@@Luke101 Exactly, what they should be doing is "add but don't change", add new stuff to enhance the characters and the world, but don't change what already exists!
You kept saying that the show forgot about the time change in the Casino, they spent 20 minutes there and came out after the Solstice. That is time freezing if you ask me. As several people in the comments have said, they could've entered when they were old. Just because you don't age, doesn't mean only teenagers enter a casino.
In most media, Hades and Ares are depicted as the bad ones. But in classic mythology, they were practically the better ones compared to the other Greek gods. Ares even killed Poseidon’s son for r*ping his daughter, Zeus and Poseidon wanted to trial him for murder but the goddesses took Ares side.
I felt the taxi fitted Hermes as his car. Hermes is the god of travelers after all. And I like how the casino pumped the lotus fruit through the air. In the book I thought those cash cards were enchanted to do what the fruit use to do as Percy said so himself that he felt if they had taken those golden cards offered to them they would never leave, but they were able to will themselves to ignore taking the cards and leave. By pumping the lotus into the air they decrease the chance of someone not taking the card thus not falling under the lotus’ power
@@saladspoonami4563 I know right. Makes me wonder if perhaps Hephaestus himself drives a tow truck or any other kind of vehicle to carry machines and parts.
Movieflame bruh. The show did not take away to no aging aspect of the casino because people walked in as adults and stayed adults. Why do they all have to be young? Also the multi era cars in the garage makes it clear that people are here from all different time periods. Nothing was changed about how the casino works. Just the execution was changed.
I understand why there were old people in the casino as older people could’ve also easily walked in and stopped aging, however, the fact that we only saw kids in the VR Room was disappointing and there should’ve been more kids in there. Maybe even a di Angelo shot.
I'm curious to see how they explain Luke's scar if we didn't hear about his quest. Maybe it had something tied further into the overall story, instead of taking this golden fruit.
I do think that this was a weaker episode than the rest sadly, but just want to correct you, it makes perfect sense to me that there would be people of all ages in that casino, old people go in and do not go out and stays the same old age rest of their life same with younger people etc. So i do not think that they took away the you do not age completely since old people also go to places to gamble, and if a old person went in then that old person would stay old, and there is alot of old gamblers.
I feel like the casino thing was not that much of a problem, for me the reason there is mainly adults on the scene makes me think that it's simply because of the place they're in, as in the VR area there are younger people, so to my view they expanded from the casino only trapping kids to all ages and not necessarily making people age.
I feel like the intention was /whoever/ stumbles in gets stuck there. I don’t think they intended to portray the possibility of aging in the Casino, just that people of all ages get stuck there. I agree tho, a scene where they discuss what years people think it is would’ve been helpful. Even the elder Satyr saying something like, “just last week you were a kid” (goat pun intended) “You mean it feels like that? It’s been (…) years since I’ve seen you” “No, no. Just last week. My you’ve grown!”
I just have the feeling, that they wanted to take advantage of having Lin-Manuel Miranda as Hermes and instead of waiting, they give him some scenes for it to makes sense him being so early in the series. Plus... it kinda disappointed me the old people in the casino above all. Was expecting something like in the movie in that specific scene. Maybe the fact of them taking Hermes taxi instead of the car was because they would need to drive all the way, while the taxi just "magically" takes them there within seconds
Rick promised a faithful adaptation and that was a complete lie. They took one of the most iconic scenes from the book and stripped it of all tension/ surprise/ charm with Grover explaining exactly what the Lotus Casino is and what would happen 5 seconds after walking in. They did the same thing with Medusa and with the Chimera. The constant exposition dumps are ridiculous and deflate all sense of mystery immediately. The casino is a place where the kids think they finally get to just relax and, you know, be kids! They’re exhausted from the quest, they’re dirty, and they get to just have fun for a bit. The casino seemed like the coolest place ever and it was really unsettling as Percy slowly pieced together what was going on, forgetting things and seeing people that have been trapped there for decades. Then the reveal that they have only one day left! That was so jaw dropping. Not only is Rick dumbing down and removing all the charm of these iconic scenes, but now he’s actively changing major story beats after he crapped on the movie for doing the same thing. The deadline has passed? Four pearls? Meeting Hermes at the casino? Wtf is this. This isn’t The Lightning Thief. Just do the book, that’s all people want
@@peter42466I was really on board after episode 2, but 3 onward has really disappointed me and now this previous episode just lost me. We’re seeing these iconic places and characters from the book but they’re all completely lacking nuance. It’s just characters walking around spoon feeding the audience what’s happening with lifeless action scenes thrown in.
I read the first book many years ago and still remember the lotus scene vividly. I remember how it was described as this perfect place for a kid with lots of games and free food (mostly because I wanted to go there myself haha), but then how the truth was a huge twist and also a great reveal. Maybe because I knew about the twist this time around, but the whole scene still felt underwhelming. I also liked that it was Percy who figured it out before Annabeth, and how he had to wake her up with the spider thing.
I think they were trying to make the trio seem smarter in the show, or maybe just less naïve than in the books and that’s why they’re having them just know things from the start
1st - Thank you for clarifying that they did not miss the deadline in the book. I am kinda ok with adults in the casino. If they entered as adults and never aged from there. But yeah, they blew that sequence. I loved the animal sequence, and Percy trying to drive, but this episode did not have the same vibe as the others. And I so agree about splitting our main characters up. Let them do more as a team.
my main thought for the changes to the casino scenes is that it seems a lot more "family friendly" in the show. like instead of them getting sucked in by all the food and games and fun, they're wary of everything around them. maybe disney was pushy about them not partaking in the casino culture? 😅
First disappointing episode for me just really could’ve and should’ve been better I haven’t minded the changes up to now but this was just too major and to be honest I feel that the next seasons just shouldn’t change more than what’s necessary still loving the show though Ps all the people who say the movies better finally have a point for the first time ever Pps I would much rather they kept the full lotus casino scene over the stuff with Hermes even if it was fun also they should’ve kept the spiders imo but that’s last episode
OMG I KNOW WHAT THE SCENE WITH YOUNG PERCY IS!!!! If you listen to Hermes he talks about being helpless and weak when someone you love is in danger and suffering. The scene with young Percy in the car is the probably the first time he seen Gabe hit Sally. Being too young he was unable to do anything about it.
What Grover gave those animals was the "Satyrs Blessing" which enabled them to return to the wild. Sometimes we need a "not-so-good" episode to balance out entire series because you can't just stick to good episodes all the way, it never leaves a satisfying ending. With one or two bad episodes the whole series becomes very satisfying at the end and that's how all stories should work.
I’ve read the first book a couple of times. And believe me I was shocked about these changes. But I think that’s what Rick wanted too, he wanted readers to experience plot twists and get a taste of something new. I actually respect that. Also saw on twitter someone said that the reason Percy had his dream of Kronos in the school office was because it was the last place he felt both powerless from an authority and betrayal from a friend. I find that very interesting.
I actually had a similar immediate reaction to this episode that I did to the last one. I wasn’t sure exactly how to feel about it because both episodes changed a lot from the books. But after a bit of reflecting, I agree with Movieflame that the last episode was a lot better. Didn’t really care for the Grover sub-plot in this one.
There being adults in the casino doesn’t automatically equal them removing the aging thing. That seems like a bit of a leap in this review. It just means adults can get stuck there too.
Well maybe they should actually clarify that, especially about the lotus scene. It's not Morgan's fault, so it's not a leap at all since there's no clarification about that.
As someone who hasnt read the books, this episode kind of felt like their filler episode that every disney plus series season has. It wasn’t absolutely horrendous but overall it was pretty boring in my opinion. I did like a few things though like the scene where grover is pulled out of VR and cant recognize percy and annabeth. But i am overall a tinge disappointed as the lotus casino scene was my absolute favorite part of the lightning thief movie and i was really looking forward to what it would be like here on the show. Still, with it being disney, it could have been much, much worse 😂.
The books are a bit episodic. Kind of like the Odyssey itself actually. So yeah lots of side quests and stuff. They actually made it significantly more plot relevant by having it be the place where they meet Hermes, get some backstory on Luke, and getting something that can presumably take them to the underworld. In the book the length of time between them actually getting introduced to the games, and Percy realising something is wrong is 4 pages. And part of that time features Annabeth watching National Geographic. The actual time Percy spends on the floor of the casino before smelling a rat? Under a page. So like this was way more than that.
I think their hands were a little tied in this one due to the movie having executed this scene soooo well and them wanting to distinguish the show from the movie. I like the nod to the Greek story about the lotus flowers, and them thinking they'd be safe as long as they didn't eat anything and still being caught. I think it's too soon to tell if the changes with Luke's story are going to mess things up or not. But it is weird to hear Hermès' POV before Percy makes his wish on Olympus. (Although maybe everything he says is close to what he says on the beach at the beginning of sea of monsters?)
The kids are not being kids, they are too serious. I was so excited to see the lotus casino part but it wasn't as good. i wanted them to want to stay there because it was fun not because they were hearing a sad story. And i thought hermes was a fun guy
Also in the Lotus Hotel, it didnt really look like anyone there was from different eras. I might have just not been looking hard enough but you shouldnt have to look hard to see that, since it was a pretty important piece of info.
I really appreciate that you don't just praise the show blindly even though you were excited for I and hyped it up and give fair criticism when it's deserved
The casino having older people doesn't mean that people age, it means people got in there while being that age, although the show should've mentioned this effect, it's not creating plot holes, but it still isn't great
i actually have a lot to love about this episode. i like that we‘re establishing the concept of seers now so that, when we run into rachel elizabeth dare two seasons down the line, we get the chance to make that connection on our own. i also like that we‘re setting up that luke‘s mom is a seer because sally is also established as a seer by the very first episode, showing the paralels between percy and luke. this season has been focusing a lot on setting up family as a major theme throughout the whole series so i really like that through the talk with hermes, we‘re getting insight on his motives and views about parenting and how much the gods suck at being parents, because while they might have the intention to be there, they often can‘t be and even stop themselves from interferring with their children‘s lives. we‘ve seen it with the absentee relationship athena has to annabeth and how her pride is more important to her than her child‘s safety, we‘ve seen it with ares flat out saying he hates his kids, we see it with poseidon never actually showing up even when he promises that he will and instead sending a neirid because something more important came up and we‘re seeing it with hermes spending his spare time at a casino that exists beyond space and time and lamenting about how his son hates him rather than reaching into time and space and showing up for luke every so often. instead of focusing on luke‘s quest, which he hates in the books because of how redundant it was, which we don‘t learn until the end of the book, we are focusing on luke hating his father for undisclosed reasons and really these are two sides of the same coin. the point of the lotus casino in the books was to a) waste time and b) establish the lotus casino as a place beyond space and time that might come up again and c) maybe set up ares as a bad guy but not really because he didn‘t purposefully sent them there, he just sent them to vegas and it kind of went from there. the point of this episode was to a) reinforce luke‘s complicated relationship to his father and showing herme‘s perspective on his parenting, thereby expanding on the themes of family and parenting already present in the season; b) establishing the lotus casino as a place beyond space and time that might come up again; c) give exposition for grover‘s quest to find pan; d) waste time. i‘m not sure how i feel about the solstice having passed by the time they get to santa monica but i also haven‘t seen the final two episodes. i do think percy refusing to not finish the quest shows how he has grown into the mythological world a little bit, because in episode two, the only reason he accepted the quest was because he wanted to save his mom. he still wants to save his mom but now he has experienced the mythological world a little and found that he has friends there who are worth saving and he found that there’s a lot more at stake so he insists on finishing the quest dispite it having high risk of not making it out of the underworld and failing. i‘m curious to see what they will do with the 4 pearls and i appreaciate the writers throwing me curveballs as someone who loves the books so much because it‘s keeping me on my toes in addition to giving me the adaptation i deserve. i have a lot of trust that the writers have executed the story well, dispite the changes to the plot, so far they haven‘t given me a reason not to.
One thing I enjoyed in the series is how they actualy visit those places with actual PURPOSE. For me kinda feels wrong how Annabeth, of all people, think they should stop their very urgent quest for a tourist trap or how they could be so gullible to just drop down at the Hotel because it simply opened its doors and offered them full-on VIP treatment. The series actualy giving REASONS for those sightseeings felt more natural for a quest. While it's true a lot of Greek epics were the heroes stumbling upon odd situations, thats because those were written as the heroes sailing UNCHARTED WATERS (both literaly and figuratively) when Lightning Thief have our heroes basicaly knowing where to go and fully aware of the geography since it's just 21st century USA. Not god-knows-when B.C. in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea like Odysseus.
One of the few things i liked about the casino scene is that you can hear Nico yelling for Bianca when grover is talking to Augustus in front of the VR games and i also really like Lin's performance as Hermes, he was a great choice
