Hey folks, I ran this by EHG before publishing and they were kind enough to confirm what is happening behind the scenes! "I think it's fine to share exactly what it's doing. It's taking the 0-255 byte roll, diving it by 255 so that it's a 0 to 1 roll, and multiplying that by the difference in min and max value. It adds the result of that to the minimum value, and then rounds." This does align with what was said in the video, and the examples I went over. Huge credit to EHG on their transparency here.
So did they say that they actually want it to work like this, namely this is intended? not an error? If so, I guess we should just live with the fact that perfect rolls (well, worst too to be honest) on any item are almost twice less likely then mid rolls. Thats painful, but at least could be taken into account while farming. Thanks for the video!
@@abs_nonsensesame, I'm fine with how it is. We all just have to slightly change our expectations for what it means when a perfect rolls drops or is crafted and how lucky we got when we get it. The upside is that when we actually DO get a perfect roll we get even happier knowing the chances of that happening are even lower than one might think at first glance.
@abs_nonsense I don't have an answer to that but if I was to guess it was probably just a performance or simplicity of implementation decision made a long time ago that never really was a big enough deal to justify the work needed to correct something that might have unexpected consequences.
@MaxxxMaxMaxx Bro, that's some EA "pride and accomplishment" energy. I'm not saying that they need to change because I'm not a min-maxer but saying that we should be happier when a perfect roll drops due to the increased rarity just seems off to me.
AH! Yes, thank you for confirming this! Me and a friend were talking last cycle about idols and how few we find with top rolls compared to the ones that were one off top roll and had assumed the rolls worked something along these lines. Glad someone put in the effort to figure it out 100% :D
that explains why it always felt like +3 vitality humble idols were much rarer than the +2 ones. I brought this up to ehg multiple times but they always said it was nothing wrong and its working as expected
Thanks for the video. I feel like sometimes the random in last epoch isn't working correctly. I told my friend but he said that I was unlucky. Yesterday I farmed a lot of small idols to confirm what I saw in this video today. But I would like to share other cases. First - blessings are lucky. I have seen the minimum values several times (more than three times) when choosing from 25-55 or 80-150, but with a successful roll it is quite strange. I had an assumption that the value on which the random depends changes less often than it is chosen. The second is double numbers blessings. For example, block and block effictiveness. I don't understand how the game chooses the best value if there are two of them at the same time. It took me about 20 attempts to get 8 out of 5-8 with a “lucky” throw, maybe because there is a second value 180-240. Third, if you ever thought that rune of refinement and rune of shaping worked strangely, then it seemed so to me too. Sorry for my english and thanks for your work.
very nice, and it should be pretty easy to fix aswell just change the matching formula and we are good. Only problem is that the fix will change values of already obtained items. It's ok if you get a better item, but not if you get a worse one...
The community pretty resoundingly voted that bug fixes is fine. In my opinion, this would classify as a bug and should be fixed (even if it does nerf some item that I have).
Any smoothing of the weighting would more often be beneficially rather than detrimental, as a even distribution of roll weights would make your mid/high rolls have a chance to become perfect, and your mid/low rolls to become bottom. A perfect roll would never become not perfect, but a mid roll could become perfect. A mid roll could also become bottom, but you are probably less attached to a mid roll to begin with.
We 100% need tiers on Idol affixes for loot filter and some endgame system to juice rolls on uniques like dungeon than lets reroll affixes or some rare currency
Whether this is on purpose by EHG or not, they really need to comment on this. It feels 'hidden' from the player so naturally feels a little wrong. They at least need to come out and say, yes we know, it's intended you get middling rolls more often etc etc high end rolls should be rarer. With no evidence I'd say that not many other ARPGs operate their stats in this weighted way..
I imagine this logic was probably implemented many years ago when speed, memory, and simplicity of implementation took priority over complete precision which is understandable when you want to get something functional out the door.
I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, your videos are always super insightful and helpful but....do you think you might have a slight spreadsheet addiction?
now the question would be if its just a visual rounding or if you acutally get the rounded stats for your damage calculation. maybe thats easy to test with increasd crit chance out of the wazoo like 10000% and see how that looks in sheet, and then maybe test if youi have 5% base cirt + 2.5% from item, is that 8% or 7.5%, get 1250% increased crit chance for 100% crit chance and check if you still have non crit hits on dummy I guess? If yes, it uses 7.5%, if no it uses 8% I could test this myself, but I dont have a way to edit items
@@FrozenSentinel on that note, you say "rarer than intended", did EHG confirm this too? I mean, shouldn't be too hard to use a range from X-0.5 to Y+0.49 instead of X to Y, but maybe they wanted the max roll to be rarer.
That's why i hate RNG items, it's a freaking trap to keep players in the game farming for hours for that near perfect rolls, unique items should have a unique fixed affixes to make life easier for players, but not it's making it even worse instead
I'm fine with this being intended, if it is. But I can absolutely see that basically everyone including me see it more from the players side or whatever you want to call it. It's way more logical it the system worked in a way where math like this wasn't needed to figure out stuff in game. It should be fixed so if an item has 3 rolls that getting a high roll is 33% if not stated otherwise. If they want high rolls to be more rare, that perfectly fine, that's their way to balance item rarity etc. Completely up to them. But we need to be able to see that in game somehow so the risk of wasting forging potential is minimized.
I guess high rolls being rarer hasn't really had an impact as the game is designed around the power players have which (intended or not) included slightly lower rolls on average in that equation. Making high rolls equal weighting now would (slightly) increase power levels of players, though I think the consistency would be nice rather than players "feeling" that something weird is going on with RNG but not being 100% certain.
@@FrozenSentinel Very insightful. I don't agree with this rng. the reason being is that perfect roll is not as impactful as low roll or medium roll. The range values are too low at base to feel like "Winning" when you get the perfect roll. If your going make a rare item with rare roll then the roll needs to be average up to a higher base. For example, Idols should be 1-7% health instead of 1-5%. The max roll isn't high enough for the mid roll range. They need higher middle variance on items to make this system feel good. Gaze should be like 1-6%. Right now the maxroll feels like the base-roll of the item but maxroll is too difficult to acquire.
