I really love the nuanced facial animations of the remake, but the camera work of the original is far more visceral and fitting. The shots in the remake are too clear and still for the insanity of what's going on. I prefer Yukari in the remake, but Thanatos really feels like a bloodthirsty animal in the original.
@@alexzeng98332d is easier cuz you can just draw it yk 3d you’d have to make more models and make physics engines/tweek them so shit works the way you want it to yk buuuuutt I still think 3d has less creative freedom but with enough talent and money and time you could achieve things that 2d can can do cuz it’s just drawing but I’m sure it’d be waaay more expensive and time consuming to make them models and etc yk what now that I’m thinking about it it’d be interesting to see Arc System Works like do something with their tech outside of fighting games
@@Spoooookedif we are talking about making a few scenes then 3d really is harder, the amount of models you'd have to make for that does not compensate, but, if it's for a long term comitment, like this game or a movie, then making 3d animation IS WAYYY EASIER, you can't even compare, you simply can't even compare
@@alexzeng9833bro the reason why spider-verse is hard to animate is because it is animated *like* a 2d animation, you literally contradicted your own opinion 😭
I love the original Persona 3/FES because of how genuinely disturbing it is at points, especially with some of the cutscenes. While I like Reload so far, it's definitely missing that distinct creepy P3 feeling
I agree. The new one is also good cause it provides a new perspective on how the SEES members were feeling during the moment. However that part where Thanatos grabs and crushes the squirming hand just looks goofy as hell in the Reload version. Meanwhile the older version, it makes Thanatos more crazed and terrifying, because its... jaw? has the shadow's blood and I felt the animation of crushing the hand was smoother in the old version.
yeah, well, unfortunately, the more that time passes, the harder it's gonna be to make things seem like that. mainly persona. It was most due to it being an older game
@@phamkhang7928 From my point of view it FES Makoto felt a thrill pointing the evoker at his head with that big smile on his face, like it was a freeing feeling for him the prospect of dying even if he knew that wasn't the purpose when he saw Yukari point it to her head.
Honestly, it kinda looks more like he hesitated picking up the gun, along with how his voice sounds making him seem uneasy about the idea. It's faster, but you can tell there's hesitation still.
honestly, i actually prefer fes in everything except the models. even the graphics of the ps2 add so much to the eerie feeling of the game. the fes awakening is full of such RAW insanity that its a work of art
i just cant understand looking at every single striking, creepy, creatively psychotic and expressive touch in the direction of the original cutscene and tossing away all of it just to make it look more like a standard 5 cutscene
It does feel rather disappointing especially when p3r does have full on 2d animated cutscenes like when the Sees gang infiltrates Tartarus with their new get up. It would’ve been perfect here to stay faithful
@@phiphi2209there's also the guy transmogrifying in front of the dorm. even beyond it being a standard in-game cutscene that's completely static with zero visual direction instead of the surreal nightmare on ps2 that you never forget, which already feels hard to imagine isn't just a corner being cut on what's supposed to be the definitive version of a game: why on earth not show his face melting and him unnervingly toppling over into his own face-goop now? they cut AWAY from it completely. what was even the thought process? sometimes i swear the people in charge of remakes just dislike anything that uniquely aids in atmosphere. there's actually a lot about that that i think was improved in reload, but why didn't it extend to some of the most obvious and integral aspects then? there's other examples i could get into like how the dorm is lit now (which also has massive graphical downgrades over the ps2 versions) and little touches like the lighting around the persimmon tree. it's a breed of baffling here that you can only quite get from atlus
Oh, shut the hell up. They did this probably because two anime versions of this very scene already exist and by this point the in-game models look good enough to make a cutscene out of and not look embarrassing like in Portable. I don't understand what your and the fanbase's problem is with 5, but it's absolutely bonkers that you blame its existence for the choice they made to make one scene not anime anymore. For the record, the protagonist's awakening in 5 is anime, so it's not like Reload is copying that sequence like you're implying. P5 didn't fucking invent in-engine cutscenes.
@HardDiskDog they neutered the game for modern audiences. Thats all one can assume. Game is mid. The og still has the amazing style and sound design. They gave up all the style and substance in the remake.
I feel like Reload, while neat, missed every mark the original had laid out. They didn’t even have the eyes shine from the Persona awakening, they start before he pulls the trigger… which also defeats the purpose of OG’s original blank grey eyes as a contrast. And I REALLY felt that the original is 100% stronger for making the Evoker impact a single frame. There’s insane importance to that single dramatic moment that’s just played too smoothly in Reload. I can definitely go on and on why I dislike it. It lingers on all the wrong moments, and feels too “pretty” in a way. There was a brutality and insanity to the original, a good raw set of emotions that’s just not conveyed in Reload.
eh, the eyes glowing shortly before pulling the trigger works in the context of established game lore, it is the moment his resolve shines most nobody actually needs an evoker at all just the resolve to summon the Persona, which is something Takaya comments on since he refuses to use an evoker at all, and why Fuuka only ever uses her evoker once in the entire game that said, they could have done something more with the eyes
@@digitool5944No, I know the lore there, but having him fill up with energy even into his eyes is a very strong and striking difference that's just lost with it happening too soon. The sadder gray eyes work best when he's accepting his fate of shooting himself and facing death, the bright blue empowering light should come when he's actively BEING empowered. It's easier to follow as a viewer too. His moment of clarity doesn't quite fit until he's found himself still alive after a shot to the head. He's still figuring it out in his head, even if he knows it by instinct of sorts. Plus, his will at that moment is much weaker than the insane desire to summon a Persona that Takaya and Young Mitsuru required to do it- Fuuka is the exception but it's probably because she got a jumpstart by relying on an Evoker.
the remake is just so freaking awesome but the impact of the original is most likable to me mostly how the screen goes dark and for like one second you see an imagine of him shooting himself with a gun going off then fades away i would put it like FES is more bone chilling creepy but Reloaded makes you scream out persona too cause it is so awesome I like both but original is too good
The way Thanatos is animated in OG is unbeatable. There is one frame between Orpheus writhing and Thanatos bursting out, it really sells the violence. Thanatos explodes out, paired with a sound like glass breaking. The coffins are animated unfurling as well, like he is "spreading his wings."
They made yukari hesitate longer and the protag just like "Fuck it, suicide it is." And the blood puddle in the original when he picks up the evoker is just, why did they not have that? The sounds for Thanatos and Orpheus screeching was muted to hell and Thanatos literally tearing his way out of Orpheus sounds not like the metal body of Orpheus getting crushed like a soda can, and like something trying to get out of a rubber balloon (and visually too), everything goes too fast in Reload, I hope they do something about it, it's just janky i do like the sounds of Thanatos' chains rattling cleanly in reload,
@@samisnotmyname8865 Are you going to keep defending the laziness of a multi-million dollar company for free or are you going to start thinking for yourself?
I don't think their going to change a single cutscene cause people complain that it was worse then the original I get its a remake and suppose to out do the original but is one cutscene and reload is still fun.. beside the cutscene still did its job of showing what needs to be shown
TL:DR Holy shit, two cakes! To me, both are good, but have things I like more in both, FES: I like Thanatos' sounds, poses, how protag hesitates to use the Evoker and how dark and dangerous the awakening scene feels. One last thing, the manic ass smile protag's got as he summons Orpheus
Reload: VAs are on point (They were in FES for this scene as well for me), the 3d is good, I weirdly love how goofy Magician looks in 3d, I like how it shows a bit more of Thanatos manhandling Magician, including him grabbing the arm a bit more clearly, lighting is great here and I love how when it switches back to Orpheus, he looks so menacing here, back lit by the moon and that one glowing eye
god, im glad im not alone in thinking the original hits harder! the new one feels like its going through the motions and its not bad or anything but the og is just so... artsy!
The only thing I wish is that the sound effects and Orpheus/Thanatos shrieks were louder and more destructive which might get fixed with a patch, FES is peak ofc but I like all of the interpretations of this scene, it still remains a certified banger 👍
2:58 is still the sickest shot of thanatos in the whole P3 movie and remake love how the chains drape over his arms when he cleaves the magician arcana shadow to pieces.
I like and criticize both versions for different reasons. My thoughts: Original version: Positives - I LOVE how moody and visceral it is. The emergence of Thanatos has some fantastic, snappy animation going on that does a great job of showing just how feral and terrifying and mysterious it is-I love how the severed Shadow’s arm is animated in such a squirmy, fluid way, and there’s this dark aesthetic flair to it that I just like, even if it’s rough. Negatives - The cinematography leaves a LOT to be desired. In general I think the “camera work” of all the 2D animated cutscenes in the original P3 looks really janky and it makes it incredibly difficult to parse what’s actually going on in important scenes. Also, let’s not kid ourselves, they must have saved the animation budget for Thanatos because much of this is basically a static slideshow with the camera shaking and panning around to create the illusion of movement. The camera angles are really hit-or-miss in general: there’s just a lot of very odd framing and composition choices like zooming in on empty space instead of the characters, awkwardly framing characters as being cut off on the sides of the screen, or jump-cutting scenes away far too rapidly. Reload: Positives - This version does a much better job of conveying what is actually happening in the cutscene than the original-it’s WAY more readable, and that matters since it’s kind of establishing a fundamental premise of the game. The voice acting is also taken to another level here, just great; generally the attention to detail of the *human* characters’ body language is leagues above the original, which I think does a better job of getting across the emotionality of the scene. Negatives - This version has a much cleaner aesthetic than the original, which isn’t necessarily better. I think it could have benefited from adopting a little bit more of P3’s more rough-around-the-edges visual style-keeping a bit of the original’s choppiness would have served this scene well, I think. There are certain stylistic omissions and what feel like “shortcuts” taken that did rub me a little the wrong way at first pass, like the Evoker not landing in a pool of (blood-like substance). That was a sick visual! Why change it? Thanatos’ animations in particular are the most damning thing. They definitely lack the punchiness and weight and sheer sense of commanding terror that it has in the original. The scene of it crushing the arm is awkwardly long and lacks the anticipation and follow-through that made the original so satisfying to watch, and it bursting out of Orpheus also feels oddly weightless compared to the original. Its sound design isn’t as good either compared to the bestial snarling of the original. Since Thanatos is the star of this cutscene, I feel like this is the real key behind why some people have been put off by the remake’s version. Thanatos specifically just doesn’t hit as hard, even though other elements are very well-executed. … and that concludes my take! Including the version of this scene that was in the P3 anime films would have been good for a more definitive comparison, in general.
All the negatives you mentioned are stylistic choices for why I prefer the original. The camera made you feel uncomfortable and uneasy. It fit with the tone of being approached by some otherworldly monster that has no desires other than to harm you.
@@lulu_TheWitchBoy Ehh, it’s more of the fact there’s a lot of “shot-reverse shot” and panning happening in the OG when more fluidity and better conveyed imagery could have helped with the visuals. I wouldn’t say the camera is “bad” per se, they just needed some better shot composition in certain parts, like the snappiness with Thanatos and the single quick frame of the Envoker being shot but in other parts… lol
All of the negatives that you mentioned in the og felt too deliberate to be some budget constraint. I think all of it was stylistic and ambitious. It made us feel really uncomfortable
Personally prefer the original to reload It had a much more foreboding feel to it plus Thanatos is much more feral and angry in the OG compared to reload we’re he’s just slightly upset lol
Honestly, the OG hits a lot more than reload with the cutscence direction but I also like reloads one too. I enjoy from the OG how thanatos comes out from orpheus extremely violently and also show off thanatos as a beast I do enjoy how in reloads versions they show all of the characters reactions to thanatos and the voice acting from everyone is really good too.
Just be honest. The OG is the best because it makes using 2d animation. film transition,expression of character, background and music. It feels like an horrror movie 😆. The reload feels cheap😅
the OG is better in my opinion because it just feels so raw, it feels like the MC isnt in full control of his persona and needs to learn how to use it.
And yet the very day after you awaken you can go to Tartarus and control Orpheus perfectly. For someone who was asleep for days he learned miraculously how to control it
@thedragon12 I mean, he was already in full control of orpheus the moment he could pull the trigger. It's just that Thanatos decided to come say hi from his seal lmao
Reload should have animated the cutscene with the persona 5 studio. Those first shots from FES are movie quality. Definitely could have gotten both of best worlds if Atlus wasn’t so cheap.
I like both tbh. The remake is a more modern take. Though I will always have a lot of appreciation for the artistic feel of the OG animated cutscenes. P3 specifically had this feel in its scenes that no other game in the franchise has captured since if you think about it. I also think this was a way of compensating for the actual quality of the animation which really worked in its favor.
The main problem is that there *no* impact to anything. Thanatos bursting out of orpheus? Smooth as butter. Than's cool ass moon shot? nonexistent. Thanatos scream and panting towards the end? Also doesn't happen. It's just... lame How did they turn one of the coolest awakenings in the series into... This?
Its a problem that 3d has in general, 3d snappy and hard-hitting movements and posing are defenetly possible, but also harder and complicated do do, not even counting doing it right
FES was better with the animated scenes, feeling more visceral and dark. Even before this, the train scene comparison when first showing the Dark Hour in the game was more creepy in 2D animation from FES than the more stiff and brightened 3D version in Reload. In seeing a person turn into a shadow/succumbing to the Dark Hour.
4:09 they mixed in parts of the movie’s aspects! I love those films! They expanded so much on the story and visuals, THIS GAME IS GOING TO BE FANTASTIC!
@@TheBirdsDenhe saw Yukari try to shoot herself... he knew she wasnt going to commit suicide when she was this afraid of the shadows... so I guess he knew there was no danger shooting his head with the evoker.
@@thedragon12 feeling death is how personas are summoned in 3, the evoker is engineered to be an "everything but the bullet" pistol in order to trigger that feeling at any time. That is just literally how it works, there is zero argument here.
I mostly love the Reload version more, the only issue I have is with how quickly he picks up the evoker and pulls the trigger. I understand why but it just feels like somethings missing in that one moment.
True, that part is a bit weaker, but the Yukari part is superior in Reload (in my opinion). Like I think I slightly prefer the original, but Reload's awakening isn't bad at all, in fact it's pretty damn good. Definitely excited for friday.
You used to see him shake, breathe heavy, and sweat before he finally pulls the trigger. It’s a longer scene as it should be, since he’s being told to put a gun to his head and shoot.
There is some similar imagery, how that other form bursts from the neck of orpheus, how he cuts the shadows mask, how the arm falls in front of yukari, and how the mask fades.
Honestly, the new one is really not very good. It feels like it rushes over everything, and most importantly, it doesn't have the dark oppressive, frightening atmosphere of the original. There's no hesitation picking up the evoker, and no big smile pointing it at his head. There's also no concept of cinematography which is what makes the original so good. P3R is (in my opinion), the better game, but this awakening is truly dissapointing.. especially when they were able to get an anime cutscne of yukari showering.......
Both versions are incredible and it’s impossible to say that one’s better than the other. Still tho, it goes to show that even 17 years later the FES version holds its own against the high quality that is these modern games
I like small details present in the Reload version. Like Takeba's hand shaking so hard when she tries to grab the gun. All are good tho, but each one is really fitting their times better. Reload for obvious reasons had to take more modern approach and I love how it went out. It clearly takes a direction from the movie, which was a good move in 2024 to also bring new fans with this quicker, cinematic-like adaptation of the cutscene. Tho I get why old fans would prefer the old one.
To be honest, both give me about the same level of feeling, both are dark and brutal, but frankly, the Anime does a good job of making it feel Darker I guess it ultimately depends on personal preference, overall, im loving Persona 3 Reload and their changes, mainly because none of the changes are done to the story, thankfully
yknow what it is about the remake? Theres not enough impact compared to the original, and i blame that on everything being 3d. But honestly some impact frames or a lower framerate on certain actions would make thanatos and the whole ordeal more visceral
It seems that they chose to make this scene 3d to showcase their improved in-engine cutscenes, would make sense considering how much they used it in advertising.
i was wondering why the eerie feeling fes had wasn't present in reload... it looks like its day time with it being not nearly as dark as before at night and the moons lost its sickly yellow shade
Less emotion... The facial expressions in the remake are WILD. The remake is way more emotional, you can feel how nervous the characters are. Said that, the camera of the original does a better job representing the craziness of the persona
@@shibaru24 I don't see why they didn't just leave it animated like the original and polish it. It would have been better. They left other scenes in the game animated, but not one of the best ones.
it's like the difference between a purely animated cutscene and a live action adaptation tbh, neither of them are explicitly bad imo. but i think reload could've did it better if they made Makoto's awakening animated, doesn't have to be the same animation before but it would've been cooler, like how they did Joker's awakening in P5 being animated more or less
thanatos sound more bloodthirst, liked it, but the scene isn't so dark as original, in original first you feel like 'oh shit, we're screwed', then 'hell yeah I'm a fucking badass'
I like the style of the remake more- but it kinda took away from the moment that he immediately went for it with little hesitation while in the original it seemed like he struggled with it, which i really enjoyed
Im loving reload as someone who played a little bit of the original but man does the original do the creepy and off putting vibes better. Persona 3 Reload is just Persona 5'ified. I wish they wouldve done 2d animation for this scene.
As graphically good as P3 Reload looks, it just can't seem to grasp FES' old tension building it use to have with all the jump cuts and random shots of really abstract scenes which is what made it really cool and unnerving in the first place. Let's not forget to mention the cut music to solo the heart beating.
I really like yukari's shaky hands in reload. And I love the shadows entrance in reload, the hands and knife reveal is very scary. But the shadow was more threatening in fes, it felt more like an immediate threat because it was more flashy and fast paced. I like both MC's awakenings but fes was more impactful because it was paced better (one slow moment within continuous fast moments) and sound design was better (how everything goes quiet and we feel the suspense in the air, etc). Reload awakening is still good, the only thing I don't like about it is the weird zoom to his eyes because it felt tacky and didn't fit the mood. Thanatos ripping out of Orpheus was better in fes because fes had the advantage of having the cutscene in 2d, the nature of the medium accentuated the force of his movement and made it more explosive. 3d smoothed out his movements in reload and thus made the scene less impactful. For Thanatos killing the shadow, I liked what they were trying to do in reload, it was more brutal, but it also felt funny at times because of how slow paced it was. Fes was paced faster and sound design (Thanatos's noises, Orpheus's scream, etc) was better so it made Thanatos cooler and scarier. Overall fes cutscene was fast paced which fit the situation more, and imo reload by slowing down the pace cut down on the urgency of the situation and thus the impact of it. Fes had the advantage of 2d which made it more moody and stylistic. Maybe they could've achieved the same impact and even made it better with 3d in reload if they tried a bit more harder with sound design or took a different approach to solve some issues the medium brought but alas, too late. If there was no frame of reference for reload I would say they did a damn good job but with fes to compare it with it does leave you a bit underwhelmed. For a remake, where you expect it to be just as good if not better than the original, it has much room for improvement. Edit: Forgot to say, this is my opinion on this scene and this scene only, not towards the whole game
I like thanatos in the og better than the remake. However, I also like the part where makoto shoots himself better in the remake with his creepy smile and that great scream from the va
Something crucial is missing on the remake. To me, the animation for Thanatos is off in the remake, the MC just going straight to the gun and shooting himself with not much transition like the original. The animation when the Shadow climbs up the wall and uses his mask to look around looks unfinished, and there's not much urgency in the remake. I'll stick with my original P3 FES disc but i just hope the remake is good in some ways
I'd say I prefer many things about the new cutscene including the actual summoning sequence, but the bit with Thanatos was waaay better executed in the original.
Wow. The original one is unbelievably better than Reload. From the single frame in the thumbnail I thought Reload would at least look cool... but it actually just feels super weak to me.
@@A.H.goose1 You either sorted by newest or had to scroll to find this, plenty of people like how this looks, I just happen to believe Reload doesn't look as good as its 2D counterpart. Unless I'm top comment with only 6 likes...
@@tachytack Most of the ones I'm seeing are criticism and not negativity. I could see how you'd take mine as negative, this was just my reaction to the video. Perfect example is the top comment that has nearly 400 likes, where they mention good things but also say what they don't like. Short version: Just because we dislike a part of something doesn't mean we suddenly hate the entire thing.
OG hits harder. Reload misses key elements: Scene order, the heartbeats before he shoots himself, even general pacing made the original more ominous. Reload had hype and nostalgia boosting(I still enjoyed it)
P3R is a great remake but you can tell it’s getting the P5 treatment when everything is more stylish at the expense of substance. Atlus is moving more towards flashiness because it sells more.
Quality wise the new one is better. But the original feels more... Intense? Fast edits convey urgency and the close up shots give a claustrophobic tension. Not to mention that thanatos seems like a barely restrained starving animal in the original. The new stuff has higher quality animation. And the definitely want to show that off to you
I much prefer the original. Not only do I not like the 3D animated style, but it just seems more epic. There's much more dynamic, faster, and harsher movement. Plus I like the acting better. In Reload the animations seem kinda slow, and Orpheus sounds kinda lazy (not the actor is lazy, but Orpheus himself). And Thanatos is kinda subdued. Plus at the end instead of letting out a ghastly wail he just gets tired.
I think overall, I enjoy the original more for its pacing more than anything. It just feels a lot more frantic like a life or death situation, nobody was ready for. I will give reload some points for some of the small things it does like how you can see Yukari fumble to grab the evoker at first, and Orpheus freaking out like the MC was and how while not 1to1, reload’s awakening is pretty damn faithful to the original
One thing the new version does better is they add more scenes of the control room with mitsuru and akihiko giving more weight to thanatos's appearance. The new version lost some intensity but is far from a bad scene.
Good comparison and all, but why did you stretch a 4:3 frame with a letterboxed 16:9 image into 16:9 in the P3 FES clip? That only distorts the frame as a whole.
If i didnt knew this was the official remake i would of had said "its a really cool fan project in unreal engine" i still feel the camera work of the original aniamtion makes it more impact full but maybe its just bias as well lol
