Peter Hitchens reacts to Liz Truss promising to end a ban on new grammar schools 

Surprise

I do hope you're joking Henry? To hear Hitchens talk you would think comprehensive schools set exams.

@@GuyLeggeI do hope your joking, when in the 60s or 70s would a graduate with a degree be flipping burgers for a living.

Its not about going back at all, what a dumb argument that is. You can make grammar schools to match the modern world- First make them have more of an intelligence test, not a test that you train for so much so it will take the brightest people regardless of financial background (modern education testing methods like GCSE's and A Levels are very easy to train for and this favours the rich). You can also take in people from poor backgrounds overwhelmingly, or have caps on the number of rich kids going to them. This really isnt that hard. Dont know why people cant tweak a few things with it.

@@dedgehog6835 You also need a proper curriculum and exam methods

I assume you are middle aged? The new breed of teachers will not be the instructors you are / were.

I'm ex grammar school and a poor east end product with 2 degrees and sent my own kids to private schools under Maggie's assisted places..their aunt is a stupid lefty who objected to her taxes paying for this BUT when she had her own kids she moved to Kent for the grammar schools. Hypocrisy ( Harriet Harman ALSO sent her boy Harry out of Peckham to St Saviours and St Olaves grammar in Kent) OUR local secondary was famous for stabbings btw

Thing is, these days "teach" is understood as "indoctrinate". If you are going with real teaching intentions, you won't make it past the initial interview, if you are called for one.

This is 2022. No one has to give you a show, you just make one. Read his books instead.

@@MadCapMag no thanks

Yes correct

There were technical schools and REAL trade colleges and training as with apprenticeships.

Big wow. Maybe it was never about fail, non fail

Grammar schools taught us modesty and dignity.

Cope

The 'elephant in the room' is the quality of teaching, regardless of the building in which it takes place. Most of the teachers at my 60's grammar school would not have survived a modern OFSTED inspection. In contrast, I have friends of my age who went to secondary moderns who had skilled and dedicated teachers, They went on to successful careers. Mr Hitchens makes the assumption that all teachers at Grammar Schools were skilled and dedicated.

Excellent point. Dragging the lowest levels up is the only way to achieve success. This is true in many walks of life.

Let's face it, teachers in the 60's and 70's were bloody lazy for the most part. They didn't care about encouraging kids and were more concerned with building their bolshy castles in the air and bolstering their own egos. At least that was my experience, hearing them ranting in the staff room.

I can believe that. Teachers back then weren't big on explaining anything. Of course, the cane was still a major feature then.

Well done. You obviously have a quality of perseverance.

Is this comment an argument FOR or AGAINST, the comprehensive system? It could be either!

Many students got O levels in Secondary Modern as well! You actually needed to pass the 11 plus for Technical Colleges anyway.

@@audreyblack8629 It depends on the era. In the 1960s the Secondary Modern schools had their pupils leave at the end of the 4th year, age 15, one year short of being able to take O levels or even the lowly CSE exams. In this era, the vast majority of Secondary Modern pupils entered the job market with no qualifications at all. Not until the leaving age was raised to 16 did this change significantly.

I suspect I am from a slightly earlier era. I failed my 11+, went to the Secondary Modern and, as was the norm in the 60s, left, age 15, at the end of the 4th year with no qualifications. I applied for, and got, entry into the 5th year to take CSEs. This allowed me to gain entrance to Tech. College and night school to take O levels and then take A levels also at Tech. Eventually I obtained a BSc in physics and a PhD in atmospheric physics (the subject choice was luck, not prescience!) and became a lecturer at Manchester. So, from leaving school it took me slightly over a decade to achieve what I set out to do.

He is right. One example are matrices which used to be taught at O level/GCSE but are now reserved for A level. There has also been a massive grade inflation.

I was a university lecturer in physics between the 1970s and the 1990s and during that time we increasingly had to teach aspects of core physics that had been dropped from the A level syllabus. This, of course had consequences for what we could cover and down-graded the degree.

@@entropy5431 But A level is what one needs!

@@GuyLegge My point is that exams across the board have been made easier, what ever level you achieve.

@@ColinMill1 This makes more sense Colin but what has this to do with comprehensives? ,, they don't set exams. I agree that higher education is in dire trouble. Take neuropsychology degrees for example that are pure junk science waffle that allowed Jonathan Miller to wander around university campuses parading himself as intelligent.

Germany also kept on technical colleges which ensured that young people not going to university had a valued qualification which they could put to good use.

Yep. He wrote a book on it. Have you?

You haven’t researched his name: It’s Hitchens.

Didn't you hear him say that he has just written a book on the subject?

Hitchens has spent 24 years studying this and written two books on it.

Hitchens is also a narcissistic doom-and-gloom type, and I say this as someone who very much enjoys his content and who is certainly 'on his side' on most things. I don't overly blame him for being all doom and gloom considering the disastrous fall of this nation that he has watched in real time, but there have been worse periods in history that people have bounced back from. Things are terrible now, and Hitchens has gone his whole life talking about the problems without anyone really listening or putting into practice any of his solutions. So now he just says its too late, leave the country, etc. He's wrong of course, while one Englishman still breathes it is not too late; and all I can really put his demeanour down to is narcissism as he will not be the 'hero' who fixed all of our problems. That is going to fall to someone else, and while they might well be inspired by a lot of what Hitchens has said in the past; he will not be getting the glory. He needs to get over himself and continue to fight the good fight, and continue to spread sound ideas and doctrine, and to stop telling people that 'it's all over, we can't do that now, its too far gone, get out while you can'. The great heroes of history were always inspired by someone, they may not get the glory, but what they did and said is the true reason for why the hero had his victory; and for a good many up-and-comers Hitchens has been a great source of wisdom and knowledge; I would like him to continue to be, so drop the despair and instead go forth and encourage and inspire a new generation.