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I mean that's fine as a joke. But as the CEO he can't really crack jokes like that because as he says it's beneficial if the management of the Vtubing agencies stay on good terms in order to keep the door open for collaboration.
Poaching is a fake complaint by employers that either undervalued an employee, or knew the employee value and were purposefully underpaying to take advantage of them.
Typically poaching is only seen as questionable when a company is making *unsolicited* attempts to grab employees from other companies. In the NFL, you can't negotiate terms with players under contract/active coaches for example. But even generally, it's kind of F'd to go contacting people who aren't looking as corporate policy, and MOST organizations don't do that.
@@shingshongshamalama It's usually the circumstances that surround doing this. It's why I said "questionable" rather than "illegal" or "wrong". There are times where it's fine, times where it is against the rules, and times where it's a d* move that screws over a competitor w/o doing better than just hiring another person who's qualified, but not technically illegal etc.
@@TheMelnTeam Isn't being able to offer someone a better job than they've already got itself "doing better" though? What the heck else would "doing better" even mean anyway?
@@shingshongshamalama I think what TheMelnTeam is trying to say is that there are situations where money ultimately wins out and more people are worse for wear because of it. Think of it like all the mom and pop outfits that have been in business for decades closing their doors because they can't compete with national or global corporations offering convenience, without the service and customer support that the shop in town took pride in. Poaching valuable assets from struggling or failing entities is one thing. But I've also seen good people suffer because someone swinging a bigger stick poached a very valuable employee from a small business with very short notice. The big guys have a stack of suitable people for a position, but they single out that talented person at the mom and pop shop that won't be able to replace that person for three or six months. That's where things get questionable regarding poaching. I probably missed the mark but this is the easiest way I can think of explaining what I think Team was trying to get across.
@@Hugsloth I don;t think it's because they couldn;t protect pikamee i think she was planning on graduating before all the HL stuff it just kinda sped it up or solidified it. and also I think pikamee is better suited for hololive she has the vtuber experience and the demeanor to be a hololive talent, otherwise i think she'd join vshojo or nijisanji because she has good relations with people in those big corpo's I love phase connect but i do feel it is too small currently for someone of her potential.
@@Hugsloth Pikamee pretty much gave her notice months before it was announced. At least the beginning of January. That was long before HL and any controversy. Both VOMs owner and Pomu Rainpuff (who was informed due to friendship) have said this. She is graduating on good terms with her company. Now, she might be moving onto a bigger company (like Nijisanji or Hololive) or going for a more independent role with more control (which includes Vshoujo due to how that company works), but we won't know that until a new kettle debuts.
“Poaching” is actually super good for the labor side of business. Which is exactly why, for example, big tech companies have anti-poaching agreements with each other, so none of them have to pay their employees more worrying about someone offering them better. “Poaching” is based.
Exactly. Market value. If somewhere is offering you more, it's cuz they see more value in you than the other company. It's up to whether the original company is able to match the offer! Sports team does this all the time and we don't bat an eye.
@nulnoh219 if your contract is expired, then yeah. But if you do it before (like poaching) that is a big nono and legal action can happen. Tampering is a fineable offense and if players are caught then they have a decent amount of actions taken against them.
@@bryanjess4552@bryanjess4552 Correct me, but typically, it is a monetary fee for a breach of contract, which occasionally, depending on what field you are in, is included in the poaching expenses included in "buying out your contract"(Standard practice in fields with high competition). Non-compete clauses may also be illegal depending on local laws, and you cannot force a person to remained employed in the private sector in the US. As long as no technical documentation or property from the former company is transferred, it would be difficult for the former company to bring legal action if no non-compete clauses or equivalents are in the contract. *Not legal advice, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, love to learn more.
@@bryanjess4552 There is no such thing as contract expiry in most of the labor world. It's all indefinite contracts, and there is just a notice period and byebye.
He has a similar aura as Yagoo, but unlike Sakana, Yagoo really strays away from public appearances if he can help it, which may be a more sensible approach for a business leader tbh. The last thing you want is to somehow get into a controversy as a CEO, cause that affects the core of the company. As unfortunate as it is, I can see even these statements coming to bite him few years down the line. Business is heartless for a reason 😕
@@TomasLKarlikGlad to say, Heres a year down the line and i honestly love how he interacts with the employees and is willing to be open about various things like being the butt of a joke. Big brownie points to making the company feel more unique and less "corporate" for lack of a better word. In a world where theres multiple Vtuber companies and they are sll borderline the same, This one does stand out in s good way because of the above mentioned.
I agree with him, poaching is the most standard thing in the business world. It benefits both to the corporation that can acquire talent, and to the talents that can get a better contract. The real problem with the Vtuber world is how the talents are kind chained to their avatar, an avatar they do not own.
The "avatars" have so many ownership contract clauses, and the consequences/payouts of breaking them. Even if the talents somehow acquire enough capital to do a buyout, the PR risk and fallout wouldn't be worth it. That's the truth. Case in point the dissolution of hololive CN, none of the girls got to keep their characters and had to be laid off.
It’s good for talents, bad for viewers. It would make things more confusing when vtubers regularly switch company and also it would stop all corpo collabs.
I mean you're not even burning a bridge though. So long as you stay professional about it, it's just a job change. People change jobs all the time, they're not property of a corporation. Burning a bridge would be being snobby towards those who you steal employees from.
@@ImprovmanZero, by the viewers. we don't know about the company. If the company gets offered a large sum of money to disband the contract they probably wont care.
Agreed. I got 5 of my kitchen guys from another restaurant. Turns out they wanted better pay and to get out of the corporate food industry and move to a local place. Yeah the other place was super mad but that is fine, should have given them a raise and treated them better maybe they would have stuck around.
"Poaching" is 100% and HR term, and it paints the situation VERY differently than reality. In real poaching, the animal that is poached is just being explored illegally. In business "poaching", the worker or talent "poached" is a person with free will who chooses to leave a company to work in another one for a multitude of reasons. "Poaching" is called like that to make you think it's bad, but in truth, it's great to keep employers on their feet paying competitively.
Fuck corporate culture employer can treat workers as tools ans that okay, while workers must treat him as god, so leaving to another, with better conditions, is basically betrayal and heresy Thats outrageous, but here we are
My guy is just like a good technical director from a sports team, if he values your player more than you do, you bet he is giving it an offer to join the team.
@@BreathlessBreathing ah didn't realize they'd lost so many of their talents recently. Still though, Lisa seems happy there right now so unless they go under completely, I don't see her going anywhere.
if your rival company manages to poach your talents then that just means your company is not paying them enough, pushing them to discard any notion of company loyalty or trust in your company's vision
Unless that company is willing to pay big money to make sure you have no talents thus can't operate as competition then it stops being about paying what talent is worth and more about paying more money than your rival can to fuck them over.
If you make it illegal for employees to openly talk about their former employment, it becomes real easy to do whatever the fuck you want as an employer. On the serious side though, "poaching" is an anti-competitive term invented to make "workers being able to just fucking leave their shitty employer" sound evil.
So if a streamer moves from Twitch to RU-vid or some third site or a sport team trades members that'd fine but if you switch anime companies suddenly you ain't loyal? Fuck that follow that money
Staying in the same company for years on end to establish loyalty is the norm in japan. In the US if you've worked at multiple different places you have work experience, in Japan it's seen as a lack of loyalty and as undesirable.
It's a bit different with Vtuber corps though because these agencies try to foster a sense of camaraderie amongst the talents, so for them to leave only to be found in the company of another group leaves a bit of a bad taste. Not that we'd know if privately things are positive, but fans wouldn't know that for the most part.
I'd argue that there are plenty of people who see a sports player leaving their hometown team for a rival team as betrayal. There were plenty of people who saw Ninja's leaving of Twitch as a bad move. If you're more invested in the system than the person, I guess.
@@RichArchilles Yes, wagie. Don't forget, next weekend is your mandatory Amazon TEAMBUILDING workshop! You WILL participate in the activities. You WILL foster a sense of belong in with your coworkers. You WILL have fun. You WILL sing and clap as instructed together with everyone.
A reminder that "employer - employee" is a transactional business exchange. Trading work for money and benefits. If you feel that you can get a better deal elsewhere, do so. It is not a moral or immoral thing. Your employer does not own you.
watching this again and I forgot the Infinity Stones graphic lol Cyberlive - gone Tsunderia - gone Prism Project - on the way out the door (feelsbadman) all we got left are Phase Connect Hololive Vshojo Project Kawaii (RIP to the Gen 3 bros) Kurosanji (may the yacht sink) I guess we can replace the 3 stones with Idol globie either EIEN Project or PixelLink
@@maverickhero5834 could be. Or something she actually did screw up with and is taking responsibility. Who knows. Very rare for actual reasons to be given when vtubers graduate, which is frustrating.
Considering the brand image he's fine with i can only assume it was something finance related. Like since he's fine with edgy shit, nobody seemed pissed off enough to out her and it was ended on somewhat amicably terms I don't think it was something actually fucked up.
To me, poaching is a verb. An action. A deliberate intent to directly contact people working for another company and tell them they'll get XXX rewards if they quit their job and come work for you. But if all you're doing is offering better terms, better benefits, and better pay, then it isn't poaching if people see that the grass is greener in other pastures and decide to hop the fence. All human beings do this. If you have the opportunity to take a job with better pay and better benefits, you WILL take it unless you think it's some scam or unstable company that might collapse or fold in a couple of years or less. Everyone does this. And the only people who get mad about it are the corporations that give SHIT pay and SHIT benefits (if any) who lose overqualified workers who they were paying a fraction of their value to.
"But if all you're doing is offering better terms, better benefits, and better pay, then it isn't poaching if people see that the grass is greener in other pastures and decide to hop the fence." My brother in christ, you just described what poaching is. No need to cope and sugarcoat it. Nothing really to be ashamed of though. Because there is nothing wrong with it.
I like how Sakana thinks, he wouldn't be mad if one of the girls got "poached" to a better company say, holo or niji, unfortunately on the east side things are not that simple, it's a very non-accepted practice in that culture, one that only benefits companies and doesn't take into account the talents themselves, since when they "re-debut" they are almost starting from ground 0
I think it's worth noting that in the East (Japan especially) company loyalty is incredibly important culturally. The capitalist transition basically made it so that workers work at one company climbing for most of their lives. As compared to the west "That's the game"
Imagine having a rough job and struggling to make a living and then some mfer comes to you and tells you that being offered a better job opportunity is somehow morally objectionable. "Poaching", aka "offering a better job with better working conditions". Anyone claiming "poaching" is bad is nothing but a mouthpiece for evil companies who want workers to settle with the worse contracts possible.
What *did* happen to CyberLive? (I know that they ceased to be a company and now continue as a mere independent group called Aetheria. I just wondered what kind of difficulties they faced that lead to that.)
Okay, over in the business of capitalism, it is called the "war for competence". Businesses compete with each other for customers and employees. You lower your prices so people give you money and not your competitor. You give higher wages so skilled people work for you and not your competitor. If you can take a talent from someone else, your company is in a better position, while your competition is also weakened. A business that can't manage to get customers and competence needs to die. If you can't figure out how to attract customers and workers, you have to go bankrupt.
As long as the agreement isn't broken like Epic poaching game devs who promised to release a Steam version of the game only for Epic to sweep in and poach them and retract on said promise I am not against poaching; a lot of good talent gets swept under the rug, abused and or ignored. That's not my fault if I poach talent no one else sees yet and bring up said person.
Ok so, this take implies that the person being poached will become a member of the team. It happens a lot in the entertainment industy where talent like singers get poached by big companies, rushed into a contract and then get shelved, never to see the light of day. This happened to a girl pop singer, bc she was going to be competition with Justin Bieberdo she was forced to disappear and stop makeing music. Fish man wouldn't, but i bet some vtuber orgs are scummy enough to poach a talent, only to keep them chained up so one of their own can replace them.
Idk; I have a bias because I have poached artist not hire them as employees but hired them for work in the past because said talent was being neglected. If the talent TRULY had value to the company; they wouldn't treat them like trash. I never treat my favorite people as trash; misguided by my actions sometimes but never treat them like trash.
One of the arguments against poaching in this space is that the poacher is "stealing" the rescources put into developing a talent. However if a talent feels like they are supported and getting development opportunities with their employer they are not likely to be easily poached. Phase connect also takes chances on people that other corpos wouldn't look at or would find too risque and they clearly care about their talent (at least more than many other corpos). A week ago I had no interest in any Vtubers because I find the whole parasocial interest in a character where the real person and the persona are vaguely defined creepy, I also detest Idol culture and the insane performative purity associated with it. Phase and the other western orgs seem to allow much more of the real person to shine through and seem to enable a much more authentic human expression. I like the idea of people being a little bit more free in their self expression, especially women, by having a degree of anonymity. Phase seems to allow this without an excessive facade of "pure" virgin idols. Seeing the woman behind Pippa find herself, grow as a person and learn better social skills is really wholesome and far more engaging and compelling than a creepy idol fantasy. Watching Tenma be incredibly sweet and totally unhinged is hilarious, especially when it's clear that whoever the person behind the model is, is an intelligent, complex and imperfect human like everyone else. Recent drama with Doki bird seems to be forcing positive cultural changes where talent are given more control and better conditions. Phase management seem to exert enough control and influence to stop talent going completely off the rails without supressing their personalities and I hope this continues and they do well. If they end up poaching talent from shitty agencies then good on them.
kind of weird to say Poaching is bad, it's like saying that once you join an agency, if you leave you are not allowed to join another agency. Is that really how it is? like can you join another agency without it being poaching? Sometimes you just don't agree with the policies or the environment, like they all have their own rules and if one is too positive and child friendly it can feel awkward to just do a bunch of dark humor
She and Yuri were part of a company that went bankrupt. When it closed doors they were poached by Sakana, who bought their IPs and brought them to be first Invaders in Phase Connect
I’m going to be honest, I thought they were going to talk about Sakana claiming the pelts and ivory from endangered animals he has shot. Phase connect ivory pool balls would sell like hot cakes.
Yeah definitely immoral to go and be like "Hey you, wanna work the same thing, but better hours or with more pay. Maybe even both" Definitely something an adult in charge of a corporation should get mad about
Yeah but in business terms it means someone from company A approaching somebody working in company B and offering them a job at company A that has better terms for that worker than company B (better pay, less workload, more benefits etc). Sakana points out that what he does isn't poaching since he doesn't grab talents from active companies but rather approaches people who just left their company/whose company went under, like these two who iirc are from cyberlive.
people talking shit about poaching are people with no business acumen nor understanding of the term. Actual poaching is people having their contracts essentially bought via the other corporate selling it to them or their termination of contract fees via the talent side is paid by fishman on the condition they sign with him. What fishman did is offer a job when girls were out of a job either by quitting out of a toxic work environment or being terminated or otherwise ended their contract. That is by definition, not poaching.
Lumi nuked cyberlive then made it look like phase saved her and Yuri then lumi nuked Yuri. She’s cut throat. But she can’t nuked phase connect because phase connect is famous coffee bean company.
Cyberlive kinda fucked themselves over after Lumi tried to help and I don't think Lumi had anything to do with Yuri leaving, literally everything points to Yuri breaching contract and Sakana had to let her go (on apparently agreeable terms)
Poaching is just offering better terms for the person who you’re interested in. If another company has a better deal than I can offer my employees and I can’t counter offer anything similar, that’s on me as an employer.
Poaching means what you have as a skillset, fame, or experience is greatly wanted by others. People agree to leave because other companies see greater value in you than your current place of working. This can be seen as day to day life. You make enough money and now can move to a better neighborhood would you stay in a neighborhood filled with gun violence, drugs, etc and start a fanily there? No. You would move, this applies to people as well.
His idea of poaching isnt even really poaching as far as i know. Thats just having a better work environment, benefits, and or pay. Actual poaching i feel is when you reach out to someone and make them a special deal like giving them a higher starting pay than others in the same position or more benefits if they sign on.
I'm not surprised Cyberlive and Tsunderia are dead in 2023 considering how poorly-run they were in 2021. I am surprised that they were outlived by much weaker companies like Amber Glow and 4VLive, and that Prism Project is moribund now. Prism was the strongest of the small companies in 2021.
