@@mgmacius A "mess", a fraud (NOT electric, ICE/battery assisting insignificantly from a practical standpoint), but just enough to be deceptive so that it can be sold as "EV". It worked on most who wanted to try an "EV". I figured it out in 2000 and got angry at the liar, the Prius maker. I still bought Camrys since 1994 and own a 2008. I have 2 Apteras on order since 2020. My mistake was not buying Model 3 in 2019, waiting for the for efficient Aptera. I could have enjoyed the EV experience for 5 years waiting for the ultimate one.
I agree. Hundreds of bolts under the vehicle. Who wants to do that when it's new let alone when it's rusted and half of them break? You absolutely have to own a hoist to do this type of work and really good service information. What regular person has either? MAYBE .0001%. Get ready to wait months once anything needs service.
Seconding the idea of drawing comparisons to another PHEV to see how other manufacturers tackle the challenge. I think looking at an OEM with a longer track record of Hybrid integration would be good. (Maybe cut to some RAV4 Prime shots next time?) Anyway, this was another great informative look at the challenges of engineering-meets-manufacturing, and why I value this channel.
I just got a Toyota hybrid over the Toyota PHEV. One can make a case that the much simplex non-HEV hybrid system kinda works in that the two motors/generator/split power device functions both as a "transmission" with no alternator required. In other words, a traditional ice/trans is is about the same size as the Toyota Hybrid System. Yes, you will still need a small inverter/battery, but they assist and are never needed as the primary drive only components. But as soon as you go Toyota PHEV, you need in the Toyota PHEV, a approx. 15x bigger battery, a buuilt-in charger, a battery cooling/heating system. And for cabin heat, you need a heat pump. And by definition, on the electrical side ,the electrical side of the drive train is the primary reason and it must be sized to be able capable of driving the vehicle for a reasonable distance to justify the addition PHEV complexity. I think one should just go full BEV, as the Murno's guys strongly seem to lean in this UT. PHEV is a mess. And I wonder if this is the reason, at least at Toyota, you can never find one. They know it too. LOL
They were so distraught with the design they turned the review into a redesign session on what It could be as a BEV! Funny. They should just design from scratch. Even this redesign carries to much baggage of old designs. Enjoyable video! You guys are really getting the knack of critical feedback that Sandy alone used to do. Very fun to watch.
@@peterlittlejohn8933 The Monroe team worked hard to say something nice. Lots of deep breaths. Imagine if they just said what they wanted without Jeep as a customer...
I wonder how many purchasers are really going to off-road this vehicle? It would be taking your living room full of plush furniture out for a some Baja’ing. My guess is most of the off-roading will be into a ditch when owners out-drive the ability of the brakes to stop in icy conditions.
I’m getting so used to the clean look of EVs underneath that it is almost a shock to see the morass of an ICE car. Designed for service access as this PHEV will need lots of it. Good info in this vid, let’s hope Stellantis engages Munro to design this model as a ground up BEV design.
@@1voluntaryist If I were them I would go now and not wait for the company they are working at to collapse or lay them off first. The time to get a job is when you already have one. 👍
So, as a Tesla Model 3 owner (and fan), how does it make sense to locate the batteries right next to the hot exhaust pipe ? It looks like another "old" ICE manufacturer using what they already have and trying to squeeze in hybrid components. ( PS I was raised in the Ford business and was a devotee ). What I have told people who asked me about my Tesla, I told them that the Model 3 was everything a car should be. I think this is due to the Tesla designers, engineers, etc. started, pretty much from scratch. Ford, GM . Stellantis is apparently putting lipstick on a pig.
As a two-time Jeep owner, with Jeep owner friends, I’m confident that every Jeep comes with missing fasteners. But don’t worry, they include a few extra loose ones that fall onto the floor at random times in the first few thousand miles. 😂
Something that a lot of people don’t consider when they buy a PHEV is that they’re buying a vehicle with 2 completely different powertrains in 1 car with _additional_ provisions to connect the 2 different powertrains to each other and make them play together. They are unbelievably complicated. Trying to make an EV drivetrain play well with with an ICE drivetrain helps the ICE drivetrain, but generally makes the EV drivetrain much worse, especially in regards to efficiency and complexity. Even comparing Toyota’s HEV and PHEV drivetrains, which are about as refined and simplified as they can be, to an average EV drivetrain shows how complex and convoluted the HEV and PHEV drivetrains are. This setup is particularly bad because, while this is a new platform, it was clearly not intended to ever be a PHEV. This is an ICE vehicle that has the PHEV drivetrain shoehorned into it after the fact. Building a ground up PHEV is hard enough, making an ICE vehicle into a PHEV will always result in a clumsy, compromised and hard to service product.
Seems like Jeep would benefit massively from a full EV using structural battery. Lots of emphasis on underbody reinforcement and cross-vehicle rigidity adding weight and complexity…
MUNRO - the Cherokee is built on a OLD outdated platform, this Hybrid 4xe is not even Electric, it's a Combustion vehicle, that still has Tailpipe emissions and emits PM 2.5 & PM 1.3 particles that can KILL.
@@thomas735 - FIRST, you don't EVER need to repair & fix Tesla Gigacasting, the crash rails can be unbolted or cut with torch. NEW crash cans can wielded or bolted on . Tesla has already worked out Gigacasting repair. they can simply wield and cracks in Gigacasting. MOST insurance will write off Cybertruck
MUNRO - it's pretty easy, to go 100% electric BEV, gm & Ford made electric trucks in the 1990's w/ lead acid battery, the Electric Ford ranger & gm Chevy S-10 EV.
Safety standards, electric power train standards, battery technology and the electronics that drive them all are more advanced, more expensive and very different from what was used in the 90s. You can't compare them apples to apples and say it's easy. Easier than an ICE vehicle? Yes, but also expensive to shift over everything all at once if you're already neck deep in ICE production.
One of my cars is a 2006 Highlander hybrid (not PHEV) and Toyota went with an electric rear drive and it actually does pretty nicely. The biggest problem is that it is still pretty thirsty. The year before eked out about 18 MPG and the hybrid notches it up to only 25 MPG. (honestly, not bad, ~30% efficiency improvement) Doing the electric rear traction motor instead of prop shaft and viscous torque splitter saved weight and improved response while leaving more space under the floor pan without compromising interior space.
I think the take away is mechanical nightmare. The frt suspension design was used on vehicles like the magnum that baffled the best mechanics trying to figure out where the rattle was coming from until it was well known. We used to call it a strut rod. Now it's attached by a little triangle piece or aluminum on the front? Another thing that was bad was the multi-link rear suspension and they are still using this? Just a nightmare to work on and so many steps needed when servicing this setup. Now equipped with air suspension. It looks like the rotating axle shaft was rubbing the protective boot. How long will that last? Ugh... Not to mention under 30 miles of range from the battery. Now it's just a dead weight EV system for the most part. Just do gas or electric. This is way to complicated. Soon no one in their right mind will want to deal with non-sense and you'll be stuck with your vehicle at the dealer forever waiting for service. The new generation of mechanics are going to figure this out pretty quick and will never want anything to do with this stuff. Just looking at this tells me I'd rather flip burgers and go home happy instead of dreading what is waiting for me tomorrow sitting on a hoist. Not fun anymore.
I know this is off topic. I recall that Munro is involved at some level with Aptera and has a way of communicating with them. I was reading through the the new IRS restrictions on tax credits for EVs and realize that Aptera vehicles won't qualify for any Federal tax credits. This could be "fixed" by replacing the solo rear wheel with dual wheels, combined like they are at the rear of heavy duty pickups and semi-tractors. I don't like the idea of redundant parts in general but this one change might be able to help the company boost sales to get off the ground and reach break-even faster. It might also allay the fears of folks who worry about what hapens if the rear tire blows?" (You can take down this post.)
PLEASE ANSWER: the battery give about 25 miles. How much mile could that vehicle goes without the battery weight? what is the sense, if anyone wants more range wouldn't a larger gas tank weigh less give more distance than the battery?
Surprised by the forgings in the wheel-ends, yet likely there to compensate for high loads while keeping the weight down. They do charge at least $20K more for this than the ICE version.
don't understand why manufacturers didn't do "range extender" models instead ... Stellantis could have just put in a 3-cyl range extender/generator in with an e-axle in the back to eliminate all the drive-line clutter while using a slightly larger battery pack, but I guess Jeep buyers still want a traditional 4x4 setup for all the rock crawling they're going to do in their shiny new SUV.
This got me thinking. The Toyota Previa drive train layout would be king here. Small ICE under the passenger seat driving only the rear wheels and starter/generator. The whole hybrid system then goes at the front.
@@psdaengr911 gas-fired turbines probably don't like muflers? I'd say it's noise in the neighborhood that keeps it from under the hood. That and jet engine components are very expensive.
I think it would be really interesting to see this with another PHEV of similar size by another manufacturer to see the differences in how they approach these design challenges. Like a Volvo XC60 PHEV or BMW X5 PHEV.
This could best be described as a Frankencar. And with Jeep’s legendary propensity for early component failure this thing will have horrible total cost of ownership for any owner who keeps it past the end of the factory warranty period. Now please do t throw stones my way. I own a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Hi guys, it appears that the tire has excessive wear on the inner section of both front and rear tires, what going on with tire treads seems to be worn down aggressively..
This is where some government incentives can cause problems. IIRC, in Germany your company will double your monthly car allowance if you get a PHEV. That could be a problem by itself; but, they may also give you a petrol card. So, why would you pay to charge it if you have free petrol? I charge mine (not a Jeep). We went ~1800 miles on our first ~12 gallons of gas.
Jordan What I heard was it was a patched together mess doing nothing right but getting the job done for the short term. I did not hear the word "symphony" Are these engineers held back or just not able to design it better because of lack of knowledge?
Hybrids, excessively complex, not a mass market proposition. But if your concerned about running out of charge in an EV they are possibly an attractive proposition. Stellantis needs to get their marketing people to up the anxiety levels amongst their prospective customers otherwise it won't even serve as a stop gap in the transition to EV's.
Porsche Macan coming out With full EV next rear. Electric awd maybe lighter than analog 4 wheel drive? Why not a mixture with this PHEV. Get rid of the mechanical clutches etc with the 4 wheel drive stuff
You guys care to cover this recent news from Ford? I don’t recall you guys realizing either that their wiring harness is 1.6 kilometers longer than it needs to be for Electric F-150 and Mach-E. But this is what you do right?? “Ford CEO Jim Farley was rather blunt about the problems that Ford experienced as it rolled out its hot EV models, the Mustang Mach-E and the F-150 Lightning pickup. While both vehicles have a long list of waiting customers, Farley admitted that Ford encountered numerous problems with their production. “We didn’t know that our wiring harness for Mach-E was 1.6 kilometers longer than it needed to be. We didn’t know it’s 70 pounds heavier and that that’s [cost an extra] $300 a battery,” he said on a call with investors Thursday. “We didn’t know that we underinvested in braking technology to save on the battery size.” Farley said these and other cost problems meant that Ford “left about $2 billion of profit on the table.”
It’s really not great. Most EVs with around 65-70kWh (about 4x the Jeep) can do about 300 miles, so would get around 70-75 miles from that 17kWh battery (or slightly under, accounting for the worse aerodynamics etc of the Jeep vs most EVs). Wouldn’t be surprised if you could get further using the Jeep battery to charge a Tesla towing the Jeep actually.
What a sad vehicle. Phevs first graced the market back in 2007. It was a great stepping stone then, but it's garbage now. This is a service nightmare. The presenters are being nice, you can tell. They are not impressed, just read their body language and overcarfefully word choices...it says everything. Love this video btw. 👍
Tesla Cybertruck has 16" ride height, 14" travel, BEST in class Approach, Departure, and break over angle. It can even raise the front end , then lower the rear for EZ loading of the bed.
I am not an engineer. But the complexity of all the Hybrids are scary and built to make any mechanic real happy, and the owners miserable. But for what? For theoretically save 20% more gas mileage ? Don't believe their theory for it will reveal itself an impossible dream. Mainly due to the fact that normally every 20 or 30 miles you have to stop to recharge the depleted battery, and believe me I never had nor the time or the will to do so. Because if you drive on ICE alone you can say good bye about your dreamed gas mileage, and face instead a far higher gas mileage, than a strict ICE car, simply because together with a very limited range battery normally you get an ICE too small to do the job alone, and get horrible gas mileage. This has been my experience with the unnecessary contraption. Far wiser is the decision to buy a a strait ICE car, bur far wiser still is to buy a good EV that will automatically cut down your maintenance costs and the fuel costs. to the tune of $3.000 to $5.000 a year.
Imagine a phone maker desperately marketing push button / touch screen hybrids in the believe that customers can't live without the old familiar while also demanding the new modern technology. Who would do that and expect to stay relevant and in business...
I want a my next cell phone with dial up numbers and with the speaker/microphone on a handle, all connected with a cord to a wall plug. Oh and please include a crank handle so it can be "self charging". 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah too many things going on underneath cost wise, overcomplicated and heavy. The time to assemble that thing and can you imagine working on that thing.
12:15 - Frankly, this looks like a design and packaging nightmare. Jeep wanted it both ways with Grand Cherokee by designing a plug-in hybrid. Upshot? A compromised vehicle achieving neither of the best outcomes of either an ICEV or BEV. Expensive mistake.
Two cars in one, but both very heavy and not very efficient with twice as much to fail. Expensive to buy, service and repair. Difficult to find much to recommend it.
With the suspension being mostly aluminum, I’ve heard mechanics worry about galvanic corrosion and the welding of dissimilar metals especially the bearings down the life cycle, making it a huge issue for service
Don't know why Ford has thrown so short its opportunity on its Maverick hybrid. Its production speed is dead slow underestimating real world demand for a 40mpg truck, and they negated a PHEV option. It makes no sense why Ford didn't make one back in the 2000s with the Escape.
MUNRO - the Cherokee is too SLOW, it's too HEAVY, it's really inefficient. the Cherokee has too many Fastener, too many Brackets holding up more brackets.
It's amazing to see the money the OEM's waste on PHEV vehicles. All the negatives of gas and electric and no positives fully utilized. A complete waste of effort in my opinion. Also can the OEM's stop with the blue coloring for EV's and PHEV's? You can tell it's a subpar vehicle just look for the blue paint.
90% of current new sales are gasoline powered. Who knows how long that will last, though. Hybrids appeal to a lot of people who have never seen a BEV, have no way to charge, or figure it's a Liberal plot to take away their mobility.
