In this Wireless Philosophy video, Mason Westfall talks about the problem of other minds, a skeptical challenge to our ability to understand one another. Check out the video on our website: www.wi-phi.com/videos/the-pro...
WiPhi, thank you so much for continuing the videos. When they stopped for a while I was very sad, and it is my utter joy to continue watching your videos.
When it comes to such an issue, it seems that we don't actually have a clearcut or logical solution. We just assume that we live in the real world and are intersecting with actual people as opposed to robots. It's interesting to engage in such a thought experiment but ultimately, we'd just continue with our lives...
If solipsism is true and the observer is the only person with awareness, why do others seem to believe in solipsism? Is that just a clue to the real observer? There can only be one observer in the solipsism scenario.
What really fascinated me with this problem is when I heard that people with dissotiative personality disorder can apear as multiple characters in their dream with each personality inhabiting one point of view. How can we know if the characters we meet in our dreams have their own conscious POV? And if I have a dream or hallucination where I am visited by the spirit of a dead relative, how would I be sure? And how am I sure I am not dreaming now. I mean, what is a projection of my mind and what has a mind of it's own? Where mind even beggin? Other animals, sure, insects, bacteria, maybe? Plants even? What about the universe as a whole?
Epistemology requires a systematic approach to obtaining knowledge as an inquirer. "Mind reading" is incompatible with epistemology but predictive behavior is a more empirical approach in psychology that is somewhat similar to what people may call "mind reading"
@@christopherharrison233 I don't know if you watched the other videos in the series, but I mean mindreading in the sense of accurately figuring out the mental states (and resulting behaviors) of other people. So I'm just hoping that this issue -- of knowing other minds -- will get linked up in a later video in this series on whether a lot of usual mindreading (in the sense of the usual ascriptions of mental states we make to others) is epistemically justified. I think that's definitely compatible with epistemology!
@@mandobrownie oh! Absolutely in that sense! I have not watched that particular series on the channel yet I must check it out, in that context it most certainly compatible with epistemology and quite ironic given my assumption. Sorry for misinterpreting your comment I look forward to watching that series 😁
The color part has to do with the hard problem of consciousness, which i do understand. The robot part has a more physical aspect. And because of that i don't quite get it. If I open up another human being (which i am not going to do), I can see its not a robot. Or do you mean, whatever i am experiencing as other minds, even if it looks physically the same (inward and outward), they are really artificial minds which are not conscious at all? In that case, the animation messed me up.
We know others have experiences because most of us agree on certain realities i.e we agree it's a strawberry 🍓. Some facts are irrelevant. Also reading the mind through the eyes helps understand another perspective. Find where you agree & know your differences.
My first thought is the various different kinds of colour-blindness but that only pushes the problem back into the mind. Though my actual position is; what meaningful difference is there between Q and something that will always behave exactly equivalently to Q.
I had the realization of another person in a mind of their own when i looked at my father, on a random day, in a different way. All of a sudden i realized that maybe his "self" is completely different to my "self", maybe he feels things differently. It's almost like i wanted to swap minds for some time and be "them".
Do the characters in my dreams know that they are just characters in my dreams? Can they even perceive my existence, or am I beyond their comprehension? And, if so, how exactly do we know that we are not just characters in some other entities' dream that we cannot perceive and is beyond our comprehension?
I think those characters are models build up from your experiences. I tend to lucid dream since I fairly quickly realise that I'm in a dream. In my experience the characters in my dreams are heavily influenced by my emotion and assumptions while within that dream. I think this is because you build up your dream second by second through predictions of what is going to happen next. I think if you carefully analyse the characters, their personalities shouldn't feel completely foreign to you. Just like you can't dream a color you've never seen before. In my lucid dreams I can make characters ignore or acknowledge me at will, but only if I'm completely calm. If I'm anxious or scared in a dream, I either reset my dream to be a field of grass, wake myself up or blow up the threat with a kamehameha (worked since I was a kid). I'm not sure if my lucid dreams are of the same nature as your dreams. To the follow up question. That kind of goes into the territory of a conscious universe. Which could be expressed as God/The Universe dreamt reality into existence. My follow up question would then be: Is the universe having a lucid dream or is it only spectating unconsciously? Which goes into the question Einstein pondered on "Did God Have A Choice In Creating The Universe?".
@@BboyKeny "Yes" about the lucid dreaming. I have even been able to re-write my dreams at times if I didn't like how it was going. It's fun at times messing around with my dreams and the characters in those dreams. The dreams I like the most are when I am flying unaided by any technologies. A sense of extreme freedom. "Yes" also about colors. Colors do not actually exist in this universe except for within the mind. (See another post to you after this one). "Consciousness", "Yes" also, my current analysis indicates that what I perceive as my consciousness can be traced all the way back to space and time itself. Of which, do "I" even exist, OR does only space and time exist as 'me'? "God", God does not actually exist except for just as a concept. Which would also answer your next question too about the universe dreaming. (See another post to you after this one). * See the 'Discussion' tab on my page for my theory of everything idea and more. (Note for those with cell phones: Your YT app might not show the 'Discussion' tab). * Look for 2 more posts to you after this one.
@@BboyKeny COLOR DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS UNIVERSE EXCEPT FOR WITHIN THE MIND: Electromagnetic ('em') radiation energy interacts with matter, QED (Quantum Electro Dynamics) whereby 'em' interacts with electrons in matter and QCD (Quantum Chromo Dynamics) whereby 'em' interacts with the nucleus in matter. Some of that 'em' enters the eyes, is converted into electro-chemical signals, is sent to the brain, whereby a picture of perceived reality is generated, for most people, in visual color. (Note also: Some species like some snakes see in infrared and some species like some birds and bees see in ultraviolet). Why is the sky blue? It isn't. It is only a trick inside of the mind. Why are people's skin color different? They aren't. It is only a trick inside of the mind. 'Color' does not exist in this universe except for within the mind.
@Prince Talleyrand Well, assuming 'we' actually exist, 'and' we dream as we believe we dream, then in a way, those characters in the dreams are real. 'Real dream characters'. They are a manifestation of our own mind. Have you ever talked to yourself and gone back and forth between ideas while awake? Well, why not in the dream world too? An interesting experiment one day to possibly have: a. A virtual reality world is generated with characters in it, characters that are programed to believe that they are real and their world is real. b. Then we enter that world with our own avitar, full well knowing that they and their world are not real, other than as a virtual world and that they are virtual characters. (We of course having super powers and cannot be harmed as well as being able to manipulate their world that would defy their laws of nature as they understood those laws of nature to be). We would be like God to them. c. And then we have philosophical discussions with them concerning life and reality. (Possibly literally blowing their mind with what we knew and could do). d. Are you sure you truly exist other than just as a virtual character existing in a virtual world? You probably even think 'colors' actually exist in your world too. (See the above post concerning colors, and change it so that it is all just programmed into the virtual world).
Hi, Mason Westfall, Since this video is about minds, I am curious about your definition of mind. I do not relate it to the brain. The mind seems to be much more than a brain, or at least different than a brain. Mike
If we ever encounter other species similar to our own, this'll be a much bigger problem. Right now, there's really no point in exploring it too much except when "under the influence" lol. Taking this idea to its full-scope is a bad idea though if taken completely seriously I think. Most people who do so end up with mental health issues, so be careful.
Modern science claims that all matter is made up of quarks, electrons and interacting energy. But now, do all things, including ourselves, even actually exist, OR do ONLY quarks, electrons and interacting energy exist as all things?
(copy and paste from my files): Question: Where do thoughts actually come from? For example: Modern science claims that we have billions of brain cells with trillions of brain cell connections. How exactly does the energy signal 'know' where and when to start, what path to take, and where and when to stop to form a single coherent thought? An analogy I utilize is to spread a brain out like a map. Brain cells are represented by towns and cities, brain cell interconnections are represented by roads and highways, and the energy signal is represented by a vehicle traveling between one or more towns and/or cities. A coherent thought is a coherent trip. How exactly does the vehicle 'know' where and when to start, what path to take, and where and when to stop to form a single coherent trip? A higher intelligence has to tell it those things. But, that is a coherent 'trip' (thought) in and of itself. So, how exactly does our brain think a thought before it consciously thinks that thought? And if thoughts can be thought without consciously thinking thoughts, then what do we need to consciously think thoughts for? Just to consciously think thoughts that are already thought? What then of 'freewill' if we don't even consciously think our own thoughts? And then to further that situation, modern science claims that many different energy signals are starting at various places in the brain, take various pathways, and stop at different places, just to form a single coherent thought. (With the analogy, many vehicles are starting at various places on the map, taking various routes, and stopping at various places, all together forming a single coherent 'trip'.) And somehow it's all coordinated and can happen very quickly and very often. So, where do thoughts actually come from? Who and/or what is thinking the thoughts before I consciously think those thoughts? Do "I" even have freewill to even think these thoughts "I" am thinking about thoughts and type these thoughts to you here on this internet? Modern science also claims we have at least 3 brains: The early or reptilian brain, the mid brain, and the later more developed brain. So, are early parts of the brain thinking thoughts before the later parts of the brain consciously think those thoughts? If reptiles can think thoughts, then couldn't the early part of our brain think thoughts, and somehow pass those thoughts on to later more developed parts of later brains? Is our 'inner self' really just our reptilian brain thinking the thoughts that we think we are thinking? Are we all just later more evolved reptiles? Who don't even consciously think our own thoughts? If not, then how exactly does the brain think thoughts? Where exactly do thoughts originally come from so our brain can consciously think those thoughts? So "I" am thinking about thoughts, if it is even "I" thinking the thoughts that "I" believe "I" am thinking about thoughts. Or so "I" currently think, here again, if it is even "I" doing the thinking. "My" thinking is imploding as "I" think about thoughts. But then again, is it even 'me' that is imploding? I will have to think about it some more. Poof, I'm gone. Is just energy interacting with itself the lowest form of sub-consciousness? Is it even consciousness itself?
(copy and paste from my files): LEVELS OF CONSCIOUSNESS? * (Lowest Level): Just energy in a coherent format interacting with itself. * Some sort of feedback mechanism, but with no real consciousness, memories or thoughts. * Some sort of 'memory' established, but still no consciousness to consciously interact with that memory. Just basically like stored preprograms that get activated at certain times. * Low level unconscious activity occurs that can interact with those stored memories. * Higher level consciousness activity occurs, while still having unconscious activity, that interacts with those stored memories with 'thoughts'. (Where we are currently at).
(copy and paste from my files): Consider the following as well, even utilizing modern science: a. Modern science claims that energy cannot be created nor destroyed (a foundational principal of physics). Hence, energy is either eternally existent, or modern science is wrong. b. Modern science claims that we have new cells that come into existence inside of our body on a daily basis. This appears to be really true. So, since I have a body with energy and cells in it: * A part of me is eternally existent and a part of me is being born anew on a daily basis. * My current body extends from eternity past until now. * Rising to a higher level of thought, the 'now' that I exist in is 'eternal'. * I am currently existing in the 'eternal now'. * I am currently an actual eternally existent conscious entity existing in the eternal now. At least once in my life I reached being an actual eternally existent conscious entity existing in the eternal now. It's just that the current analysis indicates that it will not always be that way. But then again, as I don't know what I don't know, and even what I believe I know to be really true maybe isn't, as well as my mind making up stuff to fill in the gaps of it's perceived existence, along with other items too, I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong. Maybe once attained, I actually have an actual eternal conscious existence in some form throughout all of future eternity. Can I really ever prove to myself that I don't? And also: "IF" my TOE idea is correct, then: * I am currently an actual eternally existent conscious being of light ('gem' photons) existing in an environment entirely made of light ('gem' photons), existing in the eternal now. But then also: "IF" my definitions of Space Time and the TOE idea are correct, then: * Do "I" and all things even actually exist in the first place, OR does ONLY the 'gem' photons exist as all things? How could "I" ever die if "I" never actually existed in the first place but the eternally existent 'gem' photons were existing as "me"? And if the 'gem' photons decided to exist as "me" throughout all of future eternity, whom am "I" to argue with them since "I" don't even actually exist at all in the first place? If the 'gem' photons decided to exist as "me" throughout all of future eternity, they might only have to will it to be so. And note, this would apply to you too.
I talked about this exact thing with my brother a lot. We came to the conclusion that, in a sense, in an Alan Watts style, we are like waves on the surface of the water. We identify as the wave, and separate from the rest of the lake. But in fact we can't determine where the wave ends and the lake begins. We can extrapolate that from the metaphor to kind of understand how we are inside the universe, reality, made out of it, and though we can feel there is a boundary that separates us from the rest of the universe, we can't really say we end here and the universe begins. We are one wave on the surface, made out of the substance of it all
Yeah, I remember asking myself that color question as a kid. It would seem that 7-year-old-me was a skeptic. Now I'd probably say I have no reason to believe that my eyes and brain work in a fundamentally different way to other humans' eyes and brains. I might never know for sure: I can't enter another mind, but it's probably a fair assumption to say I'm not unique or special. As for the whole "is-anything-real" kind of Matrix-like, generalised situation, I always thought those kind of pursuits were kind of sterile. Even if we do live in a simulation and nothing is "real", if my reality is part of a bigger one but can never interact with it, there's no point worrying about it. No matter what I do, that wall is still a wall, and that mind is still a mind. The fact that in a "higher reality" those things could be the result of intangible processes, in mine they are still very real. Plus, how do we know that, when robots start acting like they truly have minds, did they not, in fact, develop "real" minds? Mechanical intelligence is still intelligence.
COLOR DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS UNIVERSE EXCEPT FOR WITHIN THE MIND: Electromagnetic ('em') radiation energy interacts with matter, QED (Quantum Electro Dynamics) whereby 'em' interacts with electrons in matter and QCD (Quantum Chromo Dynamics) whereby 'em' interacts with the nucleus in matter. Some of that 'em' enters the eyes, is converted into electro-chemical signals, is sent to the brain, whereby a picture of perceived reality is generated, for most people, in visual color. (Note also: Some species like some snakes see in infrared and some species like some birds and bees see in ultraviolet). Why is the sky blue? It isn't. It is only a trick inside of the mind. Why are people's skin color different? They aren't. It is only a trick inside of the mind. 'Color' does not exist in this universe except for within the mind.
