Well, now they are. If they're capable of doing this, then shouldn't they be able to make first contact? It seems more like the Federation just doesn't want to have to deal with them.
@@Krystalmyth they are capable of sending and receiving electro-magnetic communications, similar to humans of the 20th century. The Vulcans were aware of Earth and occasionally sent science vessels to monitor progress but chose not to make contact until they registered a warp-capable vessel. The prime directive has its roots in the way humans were treated by the Vulcans, so a similar threshold is applied. If the species is not capable of interstellar travel then avoid contact, even if they are sending out transmissions.
See, that always bothered me. I mean, what if they pick up a transmission that says: "We need help getting our warp drive to function." Of course, such a fascinating look into how the prime directive would apply in a situation that doesn't involve letting millions die for stupid ass reasons is something the Trek writers would never bother to explore further. How silly of me to pose such a situation.
@@Jokie155 while not an exact fit for what you want, the Voyager episode, "Friendship One," (S7 Ep21) looked at the effects of sharing technology with pre-warp cultures prior to the creation of the Prime Directive.
Yes, that pesky Prime Directive. But, if her species is intelligent enough to have the technology that can send messages into deep space, they might have some sort of idea that interstellar life, in some form or another, may exist. Perhaps many if them may be ignorant of that fact or willfully so, preferring to keep to themselves, but the curiosity of a child knows no bounds. As alien as she is, she is still a child, and I believe all children share a certain level of curiosity, no matter their origins, race, religion, or even, species. At this writing in 2019, humanity has yet to initiate official first contact with any interstellar species, but we are intelligent enough to suppose that we might not be the only intelligent life in the cosmos. Our intelligence will be tested when we make first contact. Will we try for peace, or will we just resort to animosity in a grab for enhanced technology? Our response may also be based on what manner if interstellar life we come into contact with.
Solid State.. I worked with a non - Trekkie and explained to him the 4 lights scene. We had a supervisor who would totally contradict himself when he realized he gave us stupid orders. My coworker would become confused after returning from a meeting with the super. After I explained the lights... he would come in, slam the door and yell out "THERE ARE 4 LIGHTS!"
He did seem to be an extremely personable individual a great deal of the time, loaded with wisdom, indeed. No telling what sort of wonders would have resulted had he sired offspring.
I stand to inherit a large fortune from my creator, Dr Soong's estranged brother, about whom I have never heard before. Apparently he died recently in a freak jeep accident, in the 24th century somehow, but I do not have any bank account details with which to provide his lawyer in order to receive the payment of my inheritance.
Mr. Bidnez, the life form you have been communicating with show's no sign of intelligence. It is what I believe to be called: A deception, a ruse, a trick, a scam, a play, a cheat, a scalp, a take, a mark, a betrayal, a fraud, a deceit, a falsehood and even a lie.
Picard knows his officers well, he knows an emotional "what the hell were you thinking" type of speech would have no effect on Data. Data can quote federation regulations better than he can, Date knew to the exact letter the rules but chose to break them. They say Data is not human, he doesn't experience emotions, but the android does have free will, hell I'd even think he shows emotion(in his own way) with his daughter Lal. That tone where he says "Cease all communication with that life form" tells Data right then and there that his actions meets with Picard's disapproval. He also knows Data is loyal to a fault and will obey his instructions.
Well, a "is anyone out there" could also have been a "help, we are stranded in deep space". In that case, not answering would have professionally considered a bad thing. It just happens that this was a message from a planet and not a stranded vessel. I think Data's actions were actually pretty reasonable
Honestly I see no emotion in his pursuit of saving Lal. It is perfectly logical to work to the limits of your capabilities to preserve your work, especially work that has the potential to be revolutionary or groundbreaking, doubly so if one of your goals happens to be exploring the behaviors of humans in order to better understand and integrate them. Lal was an important experiment, and technically Data's daughter, it would make perfect sense, given his fascination with humans and their proclivities, that he would attempt to mimic the will to save one's progeny, and even to do so when he knows there is no chance of success. I'm sure he calculated well ahead of time that in the event of a cascade failure there are no successful options, he knew this himself in his early life constructing his own neural networks, but he tried anyway, on the off-chance there was something beyond his vision he might grasp to preserve his experiment. The whole thing was an exploration in the first place, exploring all suboptions is reasonable, no emotion required. All that being said Data absolutely feels emotions, just not human ones. He has desires and habits, ticks, proclivities, biased reactions, he experiences loss and works to prevent it, there are things he wants and things he doesn't want, and he doesn't fully understand those things. That's textbook emotion, if maybe muted and stunted.
@@Teth47 At last someone else who correctly remembers that Data has emotions. They were limited, so as to not seem 'too human'. He said it in a early episode "I do not feel emotions as Humans do", he didn't say he had none.
Anyone who thinks that Data has no emotions didn't see the end of The Most Toys. He shot at Kivas Fajo with a Varon-T disruptor, knowing how painful the death would be. Data could have tried to kill Fajo some other way, and he didn't have to lie to Riker afterward. I agree with his decisions, but they are indeed emotional ones.
I remember Omar Bradley echoing as similar sentiment, when someone asked him why he wouldn't lose his temper at Patton when Bradley later outranked him. He said that the extra star meant he didn't have to yell.
I'm sure every officer in Starfleet (except the Vulcans, the supercillious snots!) have wanted to violate the Prime Directive at least once, and I'd bet that many have - look at Kirk, I can't remember him OBEYING the Prime Directive!
I think of my discussion with Jobcenter employees: somebody in the headquarter might say: "do not read her websites and do not talk to her" and they would say "yes sir" - even if there is no first directive for the same species living on the same planet, they might extend it to the definition via money/earning money - who does recieve benefits is kinda "pre warp" culture ;-(
I'd feel bad for the person about to be ghosted as you would hope the sudden disappearance of her pen pal doesn't put her over an edge. That said, that is part of why data should not have answered in the first place. He led the person on and may cause unintentional damage to her mentally and emotionally.
This was one of the episodes that really show the power of skilled, competent writing. They created a perfect 'catch 22', and caused the characters to really evaluate duty vs. right/wrong. The subplot with Westly tied in neatly with the overarching theme of character growth, as everyone involved had to do some hard work to resolve things in such a way that the price was only Picard's disappointment with Data, rather than the annihilation of an entire world and all its peoples.
Which is really really dumb if you think about it. Holodecks have been known to create fully formed sentient, sapient and emotional beings with just the use of a fraction of onboard computer. For some reason mr.Data needed more RAM or something.
Why do you say he needed more RAM? The only time I know of where a truly sentient being was created he was still not fully formed. He could not leave the holodeck. Also the only reason he was created was because... spoiler alert... The computer was told to create an opponent capable of defeating Data.
Picard reacted to Data's error with such kindness, consideration, and patience. Picard may consider himself terrible with kids, but he'd have been a good father.
Data tended to be extremely rule abiding, he screwed up and got "emotionally" involved with this girl. It shows that they were friends, and Picard was giving Data a massive slide.
I think Data showed how self writing AI can get into moral dilemma's based on personal interests despite the lack of actual emotions attached to them. It's sort of a fascinating debate.
In previous episodes when explaining how the holodeck worked they were always very specific in mentioning the walls of the holodeck and how the space was not as large as it appeared. Meanwhile, horse gallops at full speed through the woods
I think the holodeck only simulates the appearance of motion, and adjusts visual perception of distance. For example, Data and Picard may be standing 100m away from one another in terms of the simulation, but the holodeck could manipulate the sight and sound both are exposed to create this effect despite the two being no more than 5m apart. The holodeck, if it functions this way, may only actually need as much space as a single person can take up per occupant.
The floor moves under the users to keep the users in place away from the walls from the room, until the user calls for the arch then they can walk to the wall normally
I read somewhere that I today's games, a car or any other vehicle doesn't move forwards, backwards, left and right but it is, in fact, a map that moves. So if that is true, than holodeck also employes the same principle with the horse.
Not to mention having the distinct honor of being the sexiest android in Starfleet! ( However, his big brother, Lore might have something to say about that!!) 💋❤
The prime directive should not apply when an entire race is about to be destroyed by natural disaster. How does that affect their development if they all die?
That's exactly why the prime directive exists. The federation can not take part in natural disasters. Everything has a right to live and a right to not live. I don't really have any reasonable arguments for this point. It's just a matter of drawing the line, I guess. If the civilization hasn't achieved warp speed, they're not to be helped because they're too primitive and might cause destruction in the 'verse.
Yeah but like you said, they're too primitive - they CAN'T cause destruction in the galaxy. This isn't about handing them a warp drive, it's about letting them not die so they can reach that stage on their own. I don't think there's any breach of the Prime Directive to help out with natural disasters if they can, especially if they can do it in a way wherein they're not noticed. :)
The problem comes from just that. If the race is so primitive they cannot help themselves then they are slated to die out. The prime directive is there to prevent Star-fleet from interfering with the natural order of things. Who's to say that Data's friend's race death might not give way to a new species. That new species might be able to advance better to prevent their extinction better than Data's friend. Basically, natural selection tends to build stronger and stronger species than weaker ones. Interfering with a society by flooding it with technology can ultimately cause the destruction of that society. As there is no way to judge, the prime directive says to stay out of the way.
It's a case of ethics, you either get it, or you don't! There are plenty of real examples of interference by humans in nature - the best thing is to leave stuff alone and let nature and evolution take its course. We, as humans, came about without any intelligent interference and the solar system is about 5 Billion years old!!!
Data literally this entire episode: *Defiance mode activated* "Oh I can't talk to my friend anymore? I'll just take her with me to the bridge while we stabilize her entire planet with technology centuries beyond them instead, in direct violation of every rule we've ever had."
If Picard told any other officers to cease communication, they'd be disturbed by his order. But with Data, it's Picard who gets disturbed by Data's compliance.
Patrick Stewart, years before TNG, played an ostler or stable manager in a film called Little Lord Fauntleroy. As I recall he did so with a Yorkshire accent.
Question: The implication of the holodeck/suites is that they only materialize as much space as the deck/suite has, and provide the illusion of more space as needed. Furthermore, as a given subject moves towards places that don't currently exist, the holodeck shifts the materialized reality relative to them, so even though only a finite amount of space is ever rendered, it appears vast and uninterupted to the user. Fine. ...So how exactly does it work when a second subject like Data enters and moves to a static location (a )hitching post in this case), when in all reality that couldn't have existed until the last couple seconds Picard's horse approached the simulated location it would be (i.e. within one holodeck circumference)?
our vision is based on light. everything the holodeck does is also based on light. given everything else it's capable of, it's hardly a stretch to think it can feed false imagery to the participants in it, i.e., make it look like two people are further apart than they really are.
Holodeck works by creating forcefields and applying light onto them. You understand how it is possible to create environments larger than the holodeck. Now if two people are in the holodeck and in the simulation they move differently - in different direction, to different place... the holodeck can create a forcefield wall between the two people and project images onto these walls as well as subtly creating forcefields underneath their legs and then moving this bottom forcefield in a manner similar to running exercise machine. My friends and I actually theorized that given how high holodecks are (two or three decks aboard Galaxy class), it might be possible to get quite large number of people inside the simulation, since the computer could subtly lift them into the air. It would of course not be without danger or problems... it was a lengthy discussion.
Is it really a violation of the Prime Directive if you aid a pre-warp society without them ever knowing you were there? I'd say not. (I've not seen the whole episode, so I don't know if they do exactly that or not. But they should)
indeed. and thats where it gets complicated and difficult to have a solid verdict or standpoint on. because while you are allowing their society to live, you are interrupting the natural flow of ongoings of the planet. And the repercussions of that could be grand indeed. it is not up to us to decide the fate of an inferior (take that for what you will) species, even if it is well within our power and capability to save them.....or destroy them....
A species destroyed by a natural phenomenon is a luck of the draw. No species no matter how advanced they are at that stage can't prevent such a disaster. Therefore this "selection" process is absolutely useless in this circumstance.
It does violate the Prime Directive because if a species goes extinct it's niche will be filled by some other species. If you save a species, then you are taking sides and choosing who will fill that niche.
Its easy to think what is the point of non interference to 'protect' them if they are all going to die anyway. But maybe another race will have a chance to dominate after they all die, its not up to Picard to decide what civilization if any is deserving to live on that planet over the next few million years. If some alien race out of compassion destroyed the meteor that killed off the dinosaurs, we wouldnt have a chance to be here now
Humans aren't good at playing god. Sure they could descend from the heavens to aid the mortals in their time of need, but they cautiously avoid doing so because they know they are not gods
This brings up a question; in a hypothetical situation where a species does not have warp technology, thus is part of the Prime Directive. If their planet is in some way destroyed, and there are survivors on an "ark" would the Prime Directive still be in effect? Their home is gone, their culture and species are hanging on by a thread and the chance of meeting another ship mid-transit with Warp capabilities are moderately high (assuming they are not in the boonies of space). Most likely the directive would still apply, but I feel like it's still a grey area and would like to hear others' thoughts on the matter.
How does a civilization where ftl communications are available to young girls not know about interstellar? And if they don't have ftl communications, how was Data able to communicate with her?
more specifically, season two episode 15. btw greg your comment should be upvoted a whole lot more, otherwise I wouldn't have known which episode this video clip from. So, greg, thank you.
