If you want to make a deal with the devil, drive an entire psychotic species back into their own dimension, and still have time for coffee, send Janeway.
"Make sure you have a real good reason to turn down our gratitude. I'm sure Gowron will ask what it was. And I feel even more smug pointing that out than you did just a second ago." (It's "adjutant" but no worries. Actually, in the Klingon empire who knows haha.)
@@hagamapama Exactly my train of thought. I heard agitant, assumed that it's probably adjutant but then it kind of makes sense that the title' junior agitant' would exist in the Klingon diplomatic corps.
I love Worf in the background standing around looking bored, and then when Picard starts the line about offering help to Gowron’s rivals Worf quickly stares at him, realizes what’s happening and turns to Riker like “you seeing this shit?”
I love how Picard's actual thoughts are hiding juuuuust behind his words... i.e. "A MESSAGE?! Very well...." He's actually thinking "Listen here you little shit..."
Picard may be French-but only an englishman reminds an enemy that the velvet glove contains an iron punch-just note how he swallows his anger at having to deal with the insolence of a very junior official
It is Picard's last jibe that really does it for me. By ironically praising Gowron for how the Klingon Empire is prospering due to great leadership, he is pointing out the Empire is a mess, Gowron is neck deep in ugly internal politics, and thus one of his rivals being owed a favor by Picard would be a threat that cannot be ignored.
Lol so NOT Gene then 😂😂 Check out the interviewabout Gene hating Picard and his oldness and baldness if you somehow havent yet, its actually eye opening and hilarious Picard will always be the best Captain, hands down
They probably watched him in 'I, Claudius' as a captain of a Roman imperial guard and immediately concluded he would be perfect as new captain of Enterprise, because in that TV series he's basically doing the same things like in this scene.
It was Robert Justman who saw Stewart at a local stage play. He immediately knew this was the guy for Captain. Justman took Stewart to Roddenberry's house and the first impression by Roddenberry is classically told as being a horrific experience for Stewart as Roddenberry was not very nice about it all. Eventually Roddenberry was outgunned by the production and realized his lone dissenting vote would go no where so he dropped the matter and said ok to it.
For context, Picard was instrumental in getting Gowron into his position as leader of the Empire. Then once Gowron got into power he quietly rewrote the history books, eliminating any reference to the Federation helping him, putting distance inbetween himself and Picard. But Picard was having none of that crap, and gently reminded him who got him into power.
@@con_boy cant fully agree with that. It never had the same impact, sure. But the scenes with Worf and klingon politics, or the episode where Beverly had to deal with less and less people being on the ship stood out to me as well. Granted, those episodes had phenominal writing too
When the next generation started everyone compared Picard unfavourabley to Kirk, lots of "baldy go" jokes. But I have to say Patrick Stewart was incredible in the part. My favourite Star Trek captain.
@@Frenchiesfiberfiles Worf seemingly felt dishonored for even *briefly associating* with the 24th century Klingon paper - pushing desk jockey. Adjutant or whatever, a bureaucrat is a bureaucrat.
Yeah the episode your thinking about concerns the Romulan defector. When the Romulans are about ready to destroy the Enterprise, Picard had an ace in the hole: 3 Klingon cloaked Birds of Prey on standby. 😏
The Sisko would have gone overboard and and said, "This is exact-LY what the writ-ERS want! KLING-on. vers-us Federation. Federation vers-us. KLING-on! Every-ONE else against Wesl-ey." And then you got Archer..."I appreciate your decision to not want to help us, it truly is an honor, but it doesn't look like Porthos is too happy about that choice. It looks like you are going to have to do a better job in convincing him otherwise... He really enjoys cheese." Disclaimer, I love all these series though lol.
That is like the method I was trained in: I am debating someone, they make a point, and I will suddenly AGREE with them. Then I will take the point they made and use it to destroy THEIR argument. :)
That mfer Churchill caused many a genocide in Asia and is allegedly so drunk always that most of his speeches were written by a bloke from BBC! So spare me ur Churchill bullsh!t
Love the fact they brought out the original Klingons from the Original episodes in DS9. Though I like the actor who played Koloth better as the Squire of Gothos.
"What did Picard have to say?" "Basically, he wanted a cloaked ship in exchange for him not backing one of your rivals." "Ha! That guy is the best. Get a Bird of Prey over to him, and program that Earl Grey drink into the replicators when you do."
Indeed, although its well established that it took some time for the writers to realise they had a legendary shakespearean actor to work with and to make the most of it. Rick Berman has said many times he had to fight Gene hard to get Stewart the role, and that he believes it is the single most important component of TNG's success.
@@IWantToBelieve1 I am not a big Star Trek Fan, the reason to why i have started getting more interested in it is because of TNG and captain picard which i find to be one of the better characters in modern sci fi.
Thats pretty cool - Picard: "Oh, you only get our gratitude" Klingon: scoffs at it... Picard: "Or someone else will help us... then, they... wil have our gratitude" Klingon: suddenly feels like gratitude is the best thing since sliced bread
@@fallinginthed33p Indeed. I did not mean is cynically. I believe Picard helped the Klingon see the truth. Gratitude is one of the best things there are! :-)
This is actually one of my favorite scenes in all of ST-TNG. It's the clever dialogue, and that smirk on Picard's face as he says "and then THEY would have our gratitude."
Really is a testament to Stewart's acting because - on the surface - he doesn't look threatening at all. Edward Woodward had the same gift in the Equalizer
The best part is that Gowron was telling the Klingon people how he single-handedly won the civil war, and was erasing datafiles that included the Federation's help in the war. When Picard said that "someone else would accept his gratitude" he was basically blackmailing him. Although a guy as smooth as Jean Luc, I would call it extortion.
@Anti-Federalist 1776 too much help makes a weak leader. Or people. What one does when in power must be ones own. Never let it be known that you are another's man. No man (Klingon etc) can serve two masters...
@@seldonwright4345 You have it backwards. This isn't about masters and controlling your destiny through raw power. What Picard is talking about it political power. If one leader says they have the respect and backing of the entire federation, that's a HUGE power play.
@@NinjaSushi2 while you are correct about the political aspect, there is another aspect as well. during the Klingon civil war, (when Picard was Arbiter of Succession) Picard used a non-aggressive blockade involving tachyon beams to prevent the cloaked Romulan ships from delivering supplies to the Duras faction, allowing Gowron to defeat them. Simply put, Gowron owes Picard big time, because Picard put HIS reputation on the line when he asked Starfleet Command for permission to blockade.
@@kimraudenbush615 Not only that, but Gawlron has been rewriting History, and his propaganda makes no mention of the Federation's involvement. In order to strengthen public support for his leadership, he claims that he won the war on his own merits. Picard is not just saying "you owe me", he is actually threatening to expose the truth and throw a wrench in Gawlron's deceitful political narrative.
My favorite Picard Owns moment was when Picard owned Q when Q made him pass out after being knocked out and told him he was dead, and that Q was God. Picard: *says chuckling* "You are not God, the universe is not so badly designed."
"Also, please tell Gowron that I am immensely gratified that he is prospering so well. A tribute to his skilled leadership." That, my friends, is what is known as a verbal backhanded bitch slap.
Nah he punched him. He didn't feel like battling that guy to the death. Takes weeks to get it out of his uniforms abd doesn't some poor Ensign scared to death of as it is to be more afraid he'll split his wig to the white meat in front of everyone which of course he will if he fucks up but need said Ensign's confidence more than his mortal terror at the moment. His wig will be split in time.
Kirk: *B-slaps his adversaries* Sisko: *uses a Bad@$$ warship to B-slap his adversaries* Picard: *uses some of the most intricate and sinuous comments ever contrived by mankind to B-slap his adversaries*
It's times like this which were the reason Riker refused a command of his own for so long because he knew Picard still had so much to teach him which is evident in the Picard series when he's dealing with Commodore/General Oh. He never loses his temper nor raises his voice and is more than willing to provide them with a escort back to Romulan space.
@@jasonvoorhees5640 Maybe. But at least it's well-written and makes sense. It's head and shoulders above the whiny, childish, unprofessional, and overly emotional characters they put on starships in the newer Trek series.
@@captainpharaoh Cant send to nearest starbase, need to send to Picard direclty, Klingon ships are declared hazardous because of the warp reactor on board and a few torpedos.
Sisko is the one you send when the guns are already firing. You send in Picard when you want to keep them from pressing that button in the first place.
And Burham is the one you send in where for some reason you want the enemy, the crew, and the entire fanbase to shake their heads and walk away in abject disappointment.
JJ Greywolf grattitude means loyalty and if you are loyal to one clan while anothe rhas rebuffed you there may be reprecusions fo rthe clan that did the jilting!! basically he just b@tch slapped the klingon!
This and when he decides to clean the ship's gold plate rather than taking the call... are my favorite moments of Picard's diplomacy. I love his 'two can play that game' mentality.
@@Tigerman1138 The reference is back to dealing with the Sheliak [The Ensigns of Command], and the race Picard names for arbitration is the "Grizzelas", for lack of better spelling.
@@AW-sx8hm Exactly, this was actually the best person for the federation to talk too, as a higher up might have been too cocky to read the situation. This junior official read the situation well and knew to address it upwards immediately.
A couple of the best STNG episodes were ones where Picard was front and centre for almost the whole epsode, The Inner Light being one of them, and Darmok being the other. I love the rest of the crew too, but those two episodes in particualr were great.
I would maintain that STD could not learn from this show. If they could, they already would have. The common factor for SJW writers is that they fundamentally do not understand the purpose and function of lore. This is the root of all of their failings.
@@mmjahink It's not like half a lifetime has gone by since we started using the term [woke]. 🤪😂 Your comment reminds me of dumb little kids talking about "nostalgia" in the context of less than a handful of years...fake nostalgia created by their need to be a part of things. He may be a grandpa in your eyes, but in ours, you're nothing but a snotnosed little brat who clearly has a lot to learn. 🙃 And if you're also an adult, that's just fucking sad.🤣
@@mmjahink Well, given that they don't "care about social causes" but only give self-serving lip service designed to make themselves feel better and tell the world what good, moral people they are (which, if they actually were good people, they wouldn't need to tell everyone), "SJW" still seems appropriate then.
To be ultra geeky: Gratitude goes a long way. What Picard was really saying is: -"A message!" = Do you know who the F I am! I am no pauper Klingon. (I represent the flag ship of the Federation that is the superpower of the galaxy.) I have come a long way. -"Very well" = Let's dance then. Two can play at this game. -"Tell Gawron Leader of the High council of the Klingon Empire..." = You have a very high position that you don't want to lose. A title is only a Title. -"That his Arbiter of succession John Luc Picard needs a favour..." = I really need your help, I am helping you as Arbiter by the way if you forgot. -"It is for a mission that could have repercussions across the quadrant" = This involves you too, so Its in your best interest to give me what I need. I'm doing your bloody work. -"The only benefit to the Klingon Empire would be our Gratitude." = This is far more valuable than all the money we can give you. If you understand what our gratitude means. As non-monetary principles is more valuable then money. -"Yes, and please add, that if he is unable to provide us with a ship then I am sure there are others in the Klingon Empire that will be willing to help me." = let me give you an alternative scenario if things don't go as I want them to. Your Enemy can be my benefit. Your Throne is not secure. It's just business. -"And then they will have our Gratitude." = Now you realise what our gratitude means. This will make your throne unsecure. And we would have lost an ally but gained another. -"And please tell Gawron that I am immensely gratified that he is prospering so well." - Think about your position. Don't loose it. You don't want to go back to what you were before not a long time ago. The future might not be so fruitful. You have to secure that future by helping me. -"A tribute to his skilled leadership." - I know you are stupid, you know it too. You got to power and maintain it by luck. So be a bit smarter this time. Cause luck can run out. There ain't no tribute to your leadership.
@kayemm86 My bad. But yeah. Picard's diplomacy was awesome. He made my generation of Trekkies grow up so fast and not in a Kirk way either. Now, he's like the ultimate father figure for the thinking man Trekkie.
It's all in the emphasis and phrasing kids! I like how the first time Picard says, "Our gratitude", it sounds simple enough, but as he goes on to explain it you feel the weight of what it is he is implying. The favor of the Federation. That is some sublime acting there! Hearing it again you can hear the true intent of that word, "Gratitude", when he first says it. Love it!
@@tetrisdanser I understand your point, but he said it the best way. The importance of it being "THEY" rather than Gowron who would have the Federations gratitude would not be lost on Gowron. And Picard already knew that. He was emphasizing that "OUR" gratitude was the most important gratitude that the Klingons could earn in their corner of the galaxy.
The way he pauses and growls "name" at the start is priceless - you just know he's winding up to open a can of effortlessly elegant diplomatic whoopass!
You probably haven't seen Picard that annoyed at a subspace communication since he hung up on the Shelliak and let it ring before taking their call....
There is honestly no other captain in trek that holds a candle to Picards way of diplomacy. There are other captains who are great in this and that but Picard truly is a master, great writing and great acting.
+Rensune I'd say Sisko the Governor. He was the one who balanced the needs of his community and neighbors rather than just his crew or his mission. As a starship captain Sisko was not bad, but not great, and as a field tactician he was OK, but others did what he did better. jadzia was a better ship commander, and Worf was a better tactician (and so was O'Brien when you could get him to step forward and take the lead) But no one was better than Sisko at keeping a community strong and united.
In the end, Archer did not get much exploring done with almost every newly encounterd alien attacking enterprise or earth. He even resorted to torture and piracy. Something Picard would not even dream of....
Sisko was a moral filter of sorts. When necessary, he upheld Starfleet morals to the highest standards. When that wouldn't cut it, he'd block them and take make the personal sacrifice to resort to pragmatic methods, such as using Garak to get Romulus to join the war, knowing (at least originally on the surface of his subconscious) what the outcome of that would be. He may not have arguably been the best at those specific tasks you mention, but he was certainly the most necessary person in the position at that time. They very well may have lost the war if he hadn't been in charge and done some of the things he did, and able to do it only as a last or necessary resort without letting it drag him completely down and irreparably harm and corrupt him.
supertekkel1 Archer reported to torture and piracy during a situation where he was forced to serve as a warship and engage in an asymmetric war. He was fighting what was essentially a guerilla war. Anyone fighting that kind of war will end up doing a few things they regret. Ask Kira Nerys. None of the other captains ever had to cope with being as severely outclassed as consistently Archer was, unlike the Enterprise ships the NX-01 was almost never the toughest ship around and was in fact usually significantly outclassed and underpowered. And half the time there wasn't even a procedure at all for what he was up against until he invented it. He spent his whole career as a guinea pig trying to figure out how humanity fit in the greater interstellar community and was making it up as he went along..
The best part of this is how the shot is framed when there’s a close up of Picard. In the background you can see Riker, Work and Data, all absolutely calm and confident that their Captain is going to get this done…..
Picard: "I need a favour" B'iJik: "A favour?" Picard: "Terrible echo in here, I require a cloaked vessel" B'iJik: "A cloaked vessel?" Picard: "There it is again"
And it does so by saying: "If you want to measure this passive agressiveness on a scale, you would have my gratitude by buying a bigger scale next time." x)
He basically told Gowron that if he likes his position as leader of the council and all the benefits that go with it, then he will help them. If not, the Federation will see him deposed and the leader of one of the other houses put in his place. Isn't political intrigue a wonderful thing?
The best thing about all of this: We as the viewers know that neither Picard nor the UFP would do such a thing, but this Klingon doesn't. He played him like a pro musician his instrument.
mutalix Unlikely. That sentence has been used literally in a thousand different places for possibly several hundred years. Of course, there is the possibility the other poster was thinking specifically the same source as you, but there is no reason to assume his choice of words was influenced by recent popculture, other than the expression being popularized again by a single source. We cannot know if it was a reference or not, but if it would be, it could also be referencing to Sherlock Holmes, who has the habit of purposefully misleading people by choosing which information he gives and when, and also of playing the violin (fiddle). However, the balance of possibilities is that IF we choose to take it as a reference, it is more likely that he has played a game instead of reading a book more than hundred years old. ;-)
It was not a reference to any popcultural thing, I didn't even know the saying was now connected to a popcultural product. I just simply now it as an everyday saying.
We don't "know", they shouldn't have gotten involved with the level of interference they did up to Gowron's succession to start with, we can't be certain Picard wouldn't "diplomatically" assist his downfall. Not smart to anger Picard... he may not directly attack, may even lose in a physical attack, but he can do more damage with a few speeches than most people can with a whole fleet of ships when politics and diplomatic relations are involved.
I've watched this scene so many times over the years because it's a personal favorite and really sums up Jean Luc Picard as a person you don't want to fuck with BUT how did I just notice for the first time that Picard goes out of his way to ask Worf for the man's name AND THEN NEVER USES THE NAME TO ADDRESS HIM
@Emperor Ssraeshza This wasn't really a commentary about brutality but more over their projected image. USSR was never about honor - their buzzwords were equality and peace. Japan in particular was completely all about that "honorable warriors" type of deal and Germany pretended that too.
@Emperor Ssraeshza Looks like you are just a very simple algorithm triggered to action by anyone mentioning something about Imperial Japan. Yes socialists and USSR were evil scum but that was not the original topic, was it? This logical fallacy of yours called argumentum tu quoque (or "whataboutism" in the US or "...and you are beating the blacks!" in Russia) impresses only very few people.
Not much of a trekkie but I believe the typical Klingon rebuttal to that would be, "There is no honor in defeat. Honor can be achieved only through victory, by *any means* "
Manipulation, yes, deceit, no. Deceit is to say one thing to a person and mean another in order to full them. Manipulation is to say things in such a way as to get your way, whether the other person recognizes it and is forced to act accordingly or misses it altogether and gets fooled. Manipulation can be deceitful, but not all manipulation is deceitful. Instead, deceit is inherently manipulative. A threat can be veiled in such a fashion that the other party cannot assert you were not being polite. Pickard pretty much told the other party that they are willing to cooperate with others (with all the implications such a course of action carries) if Gowron is not willing to cooperate with them. He didn't insult him, and he didn't say they will cooperate with others regardless of what happens.
Which is exactly why I hate it Be clear, so that no miscommunication can take place and everybody knows what you stand for. Don't deceive, manipulate, and leave room for interpretation that you can use against someone later. Basically, be honorable, not a coward.
Can't see this scene often enough! Still makes me grin like an idiot every time. You could actually hear the screen sizzle with the burning of this adjudant...
Everyone else brings guns. Picard brings words. Edit: for everyone saying "he also brings guns", you are completely missing the point of it. Yes, he has guns, so does his enemies, but he, chooses words at all times and only resorts to guns in a finality. Given the choice, picard will always choose to talk. Terrible that I have to explain this to start trek fans. Aren't we supposed to be the slightly smarter geeks?
“You will have our gratitude.” “Gratitude? Psh! What do we want with your gratitude?” “Fine, then. Perhaps someone ELSE would like our gratitude.” “…Oh wait, did you say GRATITUDE? Shit, baby, we ALL about the gratitude up in here!”
Immediately after Picard comes in with the perfect delivery of the perfect line here, this Klingon junior adjutant’s 8-chambered heart immediately sunk down into one of his 2 stomachs 😅
As I recall, Picard is equally fluent in Klingon as Worf, and if you need cussed out in Klingon, you will be thoroughly dressed down. More than any other captain, Picard was an impeccable ambassador and diplomat, and was very adept at political leverage. That last little bit, "a tribute to his skilled leadership," was a reminder that in fact Gawron owed quite a bit of his current status to Picard's assistance.
ElPayasoMalo ... I don’t know what’s sadder; the idea that you know Klingon, or the idea that you took the time to copy and paste it from somewhere else on the internet. Good luck in the future my man, you’re going to need it.
@@Lauren080508 It doesn't matter. He is a fan, but refuses to admit it. And also, anyone who is not a Star Trek fan, is beneath you, by orders of magnitude.
This seems like the proper tone and conversation that donors might have for politicians that win their office. Basically, remember who helped put you in office.
"... and then they would have our gratitude" "I see" Cracks me up every time, where DS9 trumps with a strong sense of real stakes, TNG always had the upper hand in dialog thanks to Stewards delivery^^
Well said. In a movie or in TV, it is the sense of things which make it worthwhile for the viewer. In this Picard reminds of the real stakes in play, much higher than most things in DS9, except the dominion war of course, but it doesnt FEEL so important. A fight with less than dozen participants may feel like a huge thing, or the future of Quarks casino hangs in balance and it has drama, but when Picard throws a casinochip worth tens of thousands of sentient lives on the table, he must do it like James Bond so it would have some drama in it. Reminds me of West Wing. A friend of mine called it boring, because nothing ever happened in it. Another called it too exciting because of personal experience in politics.
@@KurasoraMutalampi never saw west wing but I love Designated Survivor. Keifer Sutherland really delivers. I think that his performance here trumps-see what I did there- his performance in 24.
It's kind of funny how Picard, as the captain of a single ship, could call up heads of state for entire Star Alliances/Empires, etc. I guess being the rock-star captain of the Federation's flagship has its perks.
Picard. He stood out because his diplomacy could be so much more threatening than all the firepower he had at his command. His enemies would probably fear a fight to the death less than humiliations like this.
I don’t know if Patrick Stewart made it easy for the writers, or the writers made it easy for Patrick. I imagine they could hear his voice and cadence in every line they penned.
Picard's sweet diplomatic tongue whipped that highbrow Klingon like a mutineer on the Bounty. He realized that Picard was the wrong guy to screw around with.
@@dangelnut Yeah, "some" and "scenes" being the keywords here, in comparison to whole episodes and even complete story arcs, heck, even complete series.
