This is truly incredible. If they deliver, they may just have killed detailleur, chain, drivetrain maintenance, automated shifting needs for most people while drastically improving rear suspensions dynamics by reducing unsprung mass. Can't wait for the long term reviews!
So many benefits as you say! Less maintenance, auto shifting, better suspension performance... we're looking forward to letting you all know how it rides!
@@trekkeruss it's expensive now, it won't be in a while. Once people understand that you don't need to have a heavy rear wheel with a cassette and a derailleur gearbox is the way. And if you can have a motor with the gearbox then why would you ride a normal bike if the weight is almost the same and you can ride much faster and pedal up stuff you couldn't on a normal bike. Once the batteries are the size of a cigarette lighter.
@@c3N3q What makes you think the price is going to come down? It is a high performance product made by ex-Porsche people. Have Porsche’s gotten cheaper?
Finally an internal gearbox and motor setup with a belt drive. This is what I’ve been waiting for on e bike market. No more derailleur and chain to constantly maintain. I want to ride one .
Tried it er not so fast with the hope and enthusiasm. Gear change between clusters 4/5 and 8/9 need work and those who have tried it also are keen to point out this is generation 1. After my ride I wondered whether I would buy a SACHS RS motored NOX 112Nm with chain or wait for this MGU to be improved. still undecided
The Bike industry should come up with a standard bottom bracket design that will accommodate mechanicals like the Bosch e drive, Befang Pinion etc, but they won't. Yes this, or something like it is the future for many bikes given that derailleurs are heavily optimised for various flavours of race, something for smaller wheels and getting around, the only problem is the rate to which eBikes get stollen.
for mtbs yes, not getting hit on rocks and removing weight from a bad spot and adding it to a good spot suspension wise, road bikes dont need gearboxes
Mainly because of my mother tongue, I look at most German RU-vidrs. However, I would like to comment here that this content, the information and the compilation are just as premium as the new all-in-one gearbox from Pinion. 👏👍
This really looks like an impressive package. Maybe electric bikes will become a little too good and powerfull, but I really dig the technology and integration. Yet I would like to stick to analog bikes for now. I imagine the prices will be eye watering too.
The technology is certainly impressive and if Pinion can make their regular gearboxes shift under load, that could be a real step forward for non-ebikes as well. Almost any high-end bikes price is potentially eye-watering these days!
@@bikeradar Effigear will shift into a harder gear under full load but will not shift to an easier gear unless torque is completely removed from the system. This is because its pawls can operate independently. Only a matter of time before they put a motor on theirs. Pinion will have something in the software that will back drive engagement off when changing gear.
I just recently bought a Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 IGH. It’s awesome. I bought knowing it’s already obsolete technology. I was aware of the Pinion technology. This drivetrain blows the Vado’s outta the water. The Vado is, to me, the make-do bike between now and when the Pinion tech is widely available. My next urban/tour e-bike will have this type of technology. It’s def the future.
It doesn’t have to be absolutely perfect, just work well enough to get Bosch and others to have to get in the game. Then we will really be into the evolution of Ebiking.
I've been riding a pinion 12 spd mtb bikepacking rig for over a year now. I agree with the gripshift being less than ideal, however it doesn't shift worse than a derailer under load, in fact I think better, gears 4-5 and 8-9 require a bit more let-off, but the ability to change gears without pedaling is great. It has been bulletproof and I prefer the belt. When I first got the bike I told my wife it would be great if they added an electric motor and presto, they did! Can't wait to check it out, the e-shifter with autoshift sounds great. It would be good if they could cut down the noise a bit in the first four gears though.
It changes gear at the top or bottom of your pedal stroke which is a huge game changer in transmission technology. The old sturmey archer you had to stop peddling for a brief moment which is fine going down hill but a pain when climbing.
My daily bike has a Pinion C1.12. and belt. I love it. But now I look forward to this e-bike without motor and gears in apart systems, but a motor and gear unit. :-)
I already ride a Pinion 12 speed system on a Gates Belt drive bike. Love the bike, the system. but a few things kept is from being a truly MTB set up. I would be very curious to ride such a bike and would probably really enjoy it. I like my Pinion if the engineers put out another quality product, I am sure it will be really nice.
Great to hear you're liking your current Pinion gearbox and we too hope they can bring some of this tech to their normal gearboxes. IF they can get them to shift smoothly under load and ditch the twist shifter, that could be enough to convince a lot of people the drag penalty is worth it!
Can't wait! Are those Shimano compatible mountings? If not then the bike industry would be a better place if they all could agree on, dare I say it, a standard.
It's not confirmed, but we doubt it's using the same mounting as Shimano, would love to be proved wrong though! Agreed though, like UDH is pretty much now ubiquitous on new MTB's a standard for e-bike motors/gearboxes and would be nice!
@bikeradar I'm on my fourth E8000 now and had to buy it due to my bike being useless without it. I would have loved the option to try out a competitors motor instead.
Probably not great but neither are most ebike drivetrains. The scenario you described almost never happens. When it does you just ride slower to get back without over exerting yourself.
The main advantage and price saving comes when you really use your bike. A gearbox and gates belt are expensive but that’s it for the next 10.000km. Change some oil and that’s it. The belt may go on for another 5-10.000km and the gearbox is next to indestructible with some riders having well over 100.000km on it. Especially high end derailer components will start eating into your budget when heavily used while these drivetrains simply don’t care. So a heavty investment at the start will pay off later. That’s why these components are mainly used by people who really use their bikes despite the price.
Looks promising. Only the efficiency is of course quite low. But because it runs normally from battery, this is only a small disadvantage. I would certainly like to buy it 🤭😋
Is there a recommended web site where you can view all the available city / touring and mountain bike offerings that have this pinion mgu motor gearbox in place?
Torque sensor in the mid drive is way better. I like my Levo so this will need to be pretty amazing to get me to shift. Sure I missed a pun there somewhere.
wireless shifting that uses a wire ? 😀 I think we should talked about electronic shifting. I'd rather have a cable routed through the frame than a useless battery that needs to be charged. Wireless is the lazy solution that can be added as an afterthought instead of a proper design
For the motorized version, are there buttons to increase the speed or is speed controlled by twisting the handle? Sorry not a bike person so terms may be wrong.
My budget is definitely derailleur human powered focused as such I even worked free at a bike shop in return for being trained by a certified Shimano dérailleur technician in how to maintain a bike and replace and maintain derailleurs on my bike, not a difficult skill to learn. Alternative power trains are still not as efficient as derailleurs. A little discussed subject is that efficiency can be greatly improved through weights loss of the rider.
I'm thinking this setup would allow for regenerative breaking - although the benefit may be marginal. It would require the freewheel to be between the gear/motor and pedals. However this would have the negative that that the gears and motor would be permanently driven by the back wheel so overall there may not be enough benefit.......
Its possible, but as you say the benefit would be marginal. It may increase drag in the system, but in theory a system similar to the MGU-K in Formula might work for an e-bike, but not sure the extra weight, complexity or drag would be worth it. A dynamo system would perhaps be better
Thanks for your views. Look forward your test ride comments. The System looks incredible on paper. Please let us know what it is for real. Price ??? Thank You.
They should have to be better, since it's an oil filled gearbox with metal gears and not just a Bosch with cheap plastic gears. It's more motorcycle technology than bike technology. Bosch is a car supplier and has no interst in products which would replace the cars they supply
I like that level of integration. However, the emotor manufacturer are notorious on after sale and parts availability. This, yet again would deepen the gap of repairability if new motor model will show up in two years and part support is next to none. At least you van service your own shimano igh or get your rohloff serviced after long period of time.
@@bikeradar I have a 900 Ah Bafang battery in a frame bag that would work quite well if I can just connect it to the Pinion motor gearbox and its computer, provided its power requirements are compatible. Or I could use a Pinion battery... do they have one ?
@@BartViaenetypically such systems are dongled and only accept batteries from the manufacturers they want. The same with Bosxh, Brose, Yamaha or Shimano mid drives
When manufacturers insist on releasing new products to bike manufacturers only, they are ignoring the millions of customers who would buy their systems as a retrofit. It also speaks volumes for their environmental & carbon footprint to only sell new when you have a perfectly good bike at home already. Not to worry though Bafang will come out with a competing product for retrofitting.
Is it really wireless shifting when it clearly has wires coming out of the shifter? It's an electronic shifter, not wireless, and I can't find anything on their site suggesting that they claim it's wireless either.
This type of system should allow the use of a much thicker chain. Maybe even something from a small motorcycle. This could be agood move for ebikes. It might need development though.
This is what I want. Using a pinion om my regular bike. I want this system om my speed pedelec. Because: less maintenance. Much less! No more changing 3 chains a year.
Looks awesome! Except for the controller. The controller looks ugly and clunky and I don't want a big fragile screen on my mountain bike either. Learn from TQ and Specialized please! Also, I really really hope they make the bolt holes Shimano compatible. That would be devastating for Shimano.
I see that they bend the carbon belt backwards on its way back from the drivetrain. Gates tells customers NEVER to do that to avoid damage of the carbon fibers. Have they commented on this design?
This will dominate the industry. It’s so far superior to anything else. I own a pinion bike, love it but have been waiting to buy an e-bike until they developed one.
