Piper N51SW | LANDS OPPOSITE DIRECTION in busy JFK after Engine Failure 

Yeah, great job by that Speedbird pilot. How many exits did the Delta pass while the Piper overflew them? Jeez, it’s like an emergency return was an inconvenience to those guys. I do like flying Delta, but I wouldn’t want those guys anywhere near me in an emergency 😳.

@@BillySugger1965 The delta aircraft was not able to exit the runway at KE since when they were told to line up and wait and was a little ahead of the taxi way already. Depending on the size of that aircraft they cannot make a 180 on the runway and the next taxi way was lima.

Which date this was?

Why didn't they roll the trucks as soon as he reported smoke in the cockpit and that he had to land?

@@dejhon_s says February 2, 2023 at time code 0:23

Perfectly said!

She did amazing job.

You don't end up controlling at JFK without having proven you can handle difficult situations. She did a great job.

A round? Like hell! Give her a raise!

@@BrewCityChaser You could tell from the pilot’s voice that he was starting to come a little unglued, and she kept her calm and took care of business.

Controller sounded a bit rattled as well.

@@briansmyla8696 Can't blame either of them. Smoke can incapacitate a person pretty quickly, I wouldn't be shocked if everyone involved was thinking "we're about to see a man die in the cockpit and crash into a jet full of passengers!" Seriously, credit to everyone involved for remaining so calm and handling it well, I'm not sure I would have been able to keep it as cool as they did.

Don't want to be captain obvious, but after experiencing a _possibility of fire during the landing,_ and then _meeting two large aircraft head to head_ - i'd be shaken up too (probably way more than he sounded).

Maybe not so much Delta 1629, but I can see myself making a similar mistake

@@wessltov I was waiting for: " Delta 1629 be ready to copy a phone number" (i.e. explain to my boss why you ignored instructions, repeated instructions, to clear the runway NOW!!!

I only wish... he's like "Ineedtodeclareanemergencyanemergencymycockpitisfullofsmoke" holy cow, just say MAYDAY it's way faster and doesn't require a whole sentence.

@@iocat maybe you can show us all how to do it when you've got your own critical problem.

​@@iocat After declaring mayday, panpan panpan or just an emergency due to inconvenient malfunction, controllers will ask for the nature of the emergency anyway (also fuel and souls and hazmat if any on board), so technically the pilot cut it short with one communication change.

@@iocat we were trained to “declare an emergency” unlike our mayday friends across the pond. I agree mayday would had caused more transmission time trying to figure out the problem Possibly even hitting the Delta plane.

@iocat You could say the same thing about a pilot going maydaymaydaymaydaymaydaymaydaymaydayihavesmokeinmycockpit I can't imagine how stressful it must be to be in a smokey room above a busy airport and you 100% cannot keep flying

Well, she is a pro. JFK hires only the best controllers.

It would have nice to see a general view of how loaded-up the taxiways were because his insistence on landing on a runway is hardly a requirement for a Piper.

Where he declared an emergency, if he was too high to land reverse on 31L, he could easily have circled and landed 31L with no engine at all. The next plane on 31L hadn't got take off clearance yet so "I'm landing 31L" would have kept it clear.

@@atubebuff Given his use of the runway length Id think he was in a over weight landing 747. Those pipers dont need much runway at all.

@@dougaltolan3017 easy to say from the comfort of home when not in that exact situation. Also when you say “landing reverse 31L,” sounds like you’re an armchair pilot yourself. Pilot did an excellent job.

Exactly For videos like this a side view Really helps! @vasaviation please take a note of this. I commented on your last video as well, please do a side view also if possible. Great job btw! Cheers :)

Fees discourage nothing especially with flying; rich people want to fly privately.

JFK oddly enough doesn't have super high GA fees unlike say SFO.

She was really rattling off those instructions so precisely. It's almost like they just played it at 2x speed.

the pilot was an idiot

​@@BrainScrambliesI rather imagine he was talking to himself as much as to the controller!

They changed roles halfway through, though. Her voice stared to waver and he collected himself and said "I'm fine, I'm going to be fine."

Not really. I used to be based out of KSLC and I honestly miss it some days. For example, night landings were much easier because there was so much light all around. Winter services were great too. You get used to landing between a 737 and a 787.

@@Vanya80151 *"You get used to landing between a 737 and a 787"* I hear you. I was once landing a Piper Arrow at a very busy airport with very long queues of airliners waiting to take-off and land, and the controller had this to say: _"Squeeze you way in between that Boeing on short final and the other one that's approaching the outer marker, it's now or never"._ Landing in those busy airports can be fun!

@@LifesongAcademy Teterboro is across the river though...

​@@Vanya80151 I'm based in KSLC, and I have a lot of fun when they tell me "Clear to land runway 35, you are number 2 behind the 737, but I wouldn't compare it to JFK. In fact, I would never willingly fly my GA plane to JFK haha

@@Vanya80151who flies the 787 to KSLC, im guessing klm or air france

I was holding my breath too lol

Why is General Aviation in JFK? Couldn't they just stay up by White Haven or Deer Park?

​@Sloth LGA was right there too. At least the commercial planes there taxi fast.

It was likely a hose issue. The plane was ultimately grounded for a week.

What can you do at JFK that only takes 2 hours from landing to takeoff...? lol

@@JohnRunyon Step outside, and then wait in the TSA line?

@@JohnRunyon might just be building hours

@@MommyKhaos Not sure why you wouldn't go into HPN or Morristown or Farmingdale at that point instead of building hours in the stress of Bravo airspace and one of the busiest commercial airports in the world

Part 134.5?

Yes, Kelsey get with it 🤣

How about watching your wing fall off?

@@joshuahudson2170 black smoke is almost as bad as a wing falling off, as if an open fire breaks out underneath the avionics panel you are pretty much dead within a minute or two, there are some stories of people who landed a burning plane with melting panel plastic driping on them and they were on the ground within two minutes of the smoke starting to get into the cockpit and still only barely survived

ADSB shows he declared at ~1400 ft. He never lined back up with 31L but was over to the side over the water. He was around 200-300 ft when he passed the Delta Jet and started the turn to land on 22R.

@@joshuahudson2170 If your wing fall off, in all likelyhood you wont even got a chance to declare emergency.

@@dalfifran7572 There are two known cases of the plane landing with one wing. The F15 is easy to find, but there's also a stunt plane that after losing a wing had a TWR > .9 and so was able to land anyway. Lucky pilot.

Agreed -- I think she froze for a moment since she had aircraft already on all the actives and was trying to figure out how to clear a spot for him. But then she quickly started trying to move planes around and was able to resolve the situation.

Wonder if speedbird was thinking they coming toward me before he made the turn

​@dfscott62 You could hear how shaken she was and probably the worst case scenario outcomes were running through her mind - yet she kept her focus on what was necessary and moved those jumbos out of the way. Keeping your cool in high stress situations is the hallmark of a great controller. Fantastic!

It's easy to arm-chair quarterback, but I think the right move in the situation where an aircraft has fire or engine failure on takeoff is to immediately clear all runways. Give the emergency aircraft maximum optionality.

@@brulez123 That is what they are supposed to do. ANY RUNWAY is available

You can say that again

The Piper ended up being grounded for a week. It must have been some serious issue…and right during rush hour at JFK too.

@@AEMoreira81 leak in the oil return hose. Oil got all over the exhaust manifold. It’s just freaking hard to get a piston mechanic to come to jfk

@@tszabo86 Oh that sounds like it could have gone so much worse then it did. If it had ignited would have been far far worse. As for learnings from the incident not sure there will be any. Maybe keep planes close enough to a exit they can use immediately if they need to clear the run way, but you would normally have far more warning of a tear drop from a bigger plane as they cannot double back that easy. Just sounds like a good outcome for a plane failure.

Dexron 3 is really good stuff

@@MikeF1189 yes it is! Keeps transmissions the world over well composed.

I initially heard "I'm very sorry for what just happened", but since he mentions composing himself, I think you're right? There's this doorbell audio on Reddit I revisit once a year, and each year I get closer to an accurate transcription. That experience has taught me that listening to audio over and over worsens my understanding of it, whereas walking away and listening to it once a day, or once a week, etc. improves it. There's so much more "brain filling in the details" than we think, context has a big impact. The more you think it's something the more you actually hear it that way. If he said "sorry" later on instead of "composure" I bet my brain would go back to the way I originally heard it.

Landing at 31L would have meant doing an entire circuit around the field. His best and fastest option would have been 13L. All in hindsight ofcourse.

@@Mash4096 Shoot me. You know exactly what I meant. I could say it's not 13L but 13R.

@@ma9x795 Huh?? No, i thought you meant 31L, because you said 31L. I don't understand what you mean with "i could say it's not 13L but 13R". Your comments are very confusing. What i'm saying is, i think the fastest and safest way to land it would have been 13L. Especially with the reported loss of power right after take-off, trying the 180º turn is almost never a good idea.

@@Mash4096 Straight down, ASAP opposite direction on 31L is what I meant, or if too high/fast, then a very short circuit to land the right way on 31L. You tried to be clever and call it 13L, but 13L would be the totally different runway on the northeastern side of the airport. Since you have reversed directions, the L and R swap over. If you approach the airport from the northwest, the runway that 51SW took off from is on the right hand side, so it would be 13R, and the runway on the NE side of the airfield is now on the left hand side, therefore 13L. I hope that's cleared up your confusion.

@@ma9x795 I think Mash actually did mean 13L as opposed to a teardrop back to 13R. But, given that that would be an extra mile and a half of ground track and require flying extremely low with an unreliable engine over a dense area with a bunch of buildings and roads, I don't think that would have actually been a good idea. Teardrop back to 13R where your flight path only takes you over a runway, taxiways, and some grass or water was a better plan.

All depends on your situational awareness. The next plane on 31L hadn't got clearance when he declared an emergency.. He was also at or beyond the far end of the runway... If he had stated he was landing 31L then he could rely on the last half at least being clear. Either drop and land reverse direction or circle and land right direction. Both entirely possible with no engine at all. But then you'd have to be paying attention to what's going on behind you...

@@dougaltolan3017 Yeah but add the smoke to that. The smoke and or fire in the cabin is the worst thing that can happen, and more in a lightweight GA plane like this. Look for the video of a guy that survived his cockpit on fire and landed. Not nice at all.

I think you’d do OK, plenty of taxiways and storage areas that are paved and enormous, assuming you couldn’t make a runway. You could easily stop a PA-28 in 300 metres

@@charleskennedy1712 Pretty sure Harrison Ford did exactly that.

No thanks to the moron who could have landed on any open taxiway…. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

🤣"I'm expressing with my full capabilities / And now I'm working in air transport facilities..."

You would be amazed how fast controllers can talk when they have to.

Probably trying to avoid hogging the radio since they weren't the one in emergency. And the landing plane is a piper, they probably figured the plane could realistically land anywhere paved if it wanted to.

@@j134679 probably yes. In addition, if he had no other option, it is possible that the piper ultimately landed on the grass or in a taxiway in order to avoid a collision.

@@j134679 The plane could realistically land anywhere unpaved in the airport perimeter too

Or the planes on the taxiways, since the pilot was so insistent on a runway. He must have known that this is still at the edge of rush hour at JFK.

hi blanco, are you gonna cover this?

Indeed. Emergencies get absolute priority. Everyone's gonna do what you need them to do to get you to safety.

The speed bird did, but the Delta was like, ‘nope staying here’. I don’t get it, if something is coming head in at me and even if there are no side roads, I guess I’d be taking the plane off roading

@@mamavswild she was rolling but couldn't just "get off the runway" when he told her to. parking it in the grass isn't going to help anyone

Delta literally skipped an exit, and had to be explicitly ordered to GTFO the runway *again* before the deigned to use the second exit they came up on.

Delta’s like: “oh an emergency you say? Well we will leave the runway in our OWN time thank you very much. Plane on fire can wait”

So true, not to mention the repercussions /job security of intentionally driving a plane onto grass for any reason or damaging the plane somehow. There are plenty of true stories from pilots and former pilots having to maintain some crazy strict criteria, especially when it comes to time and fuel, just to keep their job. Being fully fueled and packed with a full flight, getting stuck in the way is worse than still managing to get out of the way- especially if you dont press the right button or setting at the right second, or follow the exact right process to fully cancel the takeoff settings and get the giant plane steered without risking striking a wingtip in the process... Im not even a pilot, but mad respect to all pilots, copilots, & FOs involved equally, for being so quick to adapt settings and redirecting their planes so efficiently and safely.

It's a publicly funded airport. GA can land there. It's not owned by airlines.

Yes!!

Do they have video of that available to the public? If so, then, yes, that would be interesting.

Sounds like it was a night landing. If so, seeing taxiways would be kind of a challenge at night. It looks confusing from altitude with no light, just a bunch of runway lights everywhere. Runways are much easier to see.

@@Vanya80151 Cockpit filling with smoke and at night? Jfc i don't blame this guy for thinking he was about to die

True, although I don’t think he meant it like that. If you start getting smoke in your cockpit and you gotta pull some crazy stuff you might be thinking the same way. I think he just wanted to make it extra extra clear that the situation was severe and he’d be coming in quick.

The Piper pilot realized that and then tried for 4L (22R). Thankfully Speedbird hadn’t begun its takeoff roll yet.

Exactly, if the situation was that urgent, he should have performed a dead stick on the grass or taxiway. Not one “thanks” from him either.

yeah, and if you can't, you don't say that you can.... she taxied two more taxiways until she exited..

@@gregorybalint That's a good point. I have no doubts that it's not instant, but they definitely said they could get off pretty quick and then proceeded 3000 feet down the runway before exiting. I guess in their defense the Piper had already gone overhead by the time they could first exit though.

Or you know....the guy dying. But I'm glad people's travel plans are the first thing on your mind.

He had zero situational awareness. If he had been paying attention, he would have known that the Delta hadn't got takeoff clearance. The distance he managed to fly after declaring an emergency, shows he could have got down on 31L even with no engine at all.

@@Saml01 He had loads of space, could have aimed for taxi ways instead, longer and wider than many GA airports, but no one brought it up.