stays (18th century corsets, also called a pair of bodies) were actually comfortable if made and worn correctly. They weren't tight laced and didn't do much for the size of the waist, but instead acted as support for the bust. That's probably the main reason for the panniers and bum rolls of the 18th century, as well as the poofy hair- to balance out and make the waist appear much smaller than it was
@@Princess_Cheese No there aren't a lot of cases. Most of those cases are modern people not understanding terms. For example the stories of "bones breaking" is corset boning, not the persons bones; the amount of pressure a corset applies to the body cannot break human bones. Recent studies have found that pregnancy causes more organ movement than tight lacing a corset. You can't suffocate wearing a corset because your lungs aren't in your waist, they are in your chest. If you could suffocate while wearing a corset opera singers wouldn't wear them while performing.
@@erwin669 just to add onto this, the cases in which corsets were laced in the way that we associate nowadays comes from tightlacing, which was a subculture that was not very common and everyone in that time thought it was incredibly weird and unhealthy. They weren't able to start tightlacing until eyeholes were invented as pulling a corset really really tightly would not have been possible because the fabric would have ripped against the pressure. A well-fitting corset is incredibly comfortable. I've worn one and I was able to walk up and down stairs with no issues. I would compare it to wearing a well-fitted dress (maybe more snug). She should have been able to breathe in that scene.
Also it was literally impossible to tight-lace in stays...metal eyelets had not yet been invented edit: sorry, I didn't realise the person above already covered this...my bad
erwin669 What about the incidents where they did 1800 autopsies and found organs such as the heart was much higher than normal in the body as well as stomach and intestines squeezed way to high in the body due to corsets?
A proper young woman like Elizabeth would already be wearing stays (they weren't called corsets yet) every day as her basic undergarments. She's even wearing them in the opening scene when she's 10 years old. This wouldn't have been some new thing, as they're implying, and they certainly wouldn't have been tight-lacing her into it. But I can appreciate the fact that at least they have her wearing a chemise as an underlayer, instead of putting the corset on bare skin like so many movies do.
@@P3891 It wasn't because the cloth would broke. Tightlacing didn't start until a lot later, when metal eyelets were invented, and only people from the aristocrathy did it
18th century stays were not tight laces as metal eyelets had not been invented thus the stay wouldn’t have been able to handle of the strain, plus it was laced with one lace zig zagging up the back so there was no pulling action as shown here. End note, 18th century stays did not reduce the waist significantly
Guys, it's a fantasy franchise where multiple time periods were jumbled together... mostly the golden age of piracy, but they have more modern firearms than they would have had back then, they have sugar cubes which were invented much later... they wanted a metaphor for Elizabeth being suffocated by society. That's all there is to that little inaccuracy.
Girls started wearing stays quite young. I've even seen one for a toddler dated 18th century. Young Elizabeth at the start had them. Men would wear them too. They were meant to support, promote straight posture, give the desired silhouette (which at the time wouldn't be tight lacing like this!)
On one hand, in the Georgian and even Victorian Eras most corsets were actually supposed to be somewhat comfortable while _appearing_ to squeeze. On the other hand, improperly lacing a corset is going to put a lot of pressure and make it impossible to breathe. In the Pirates of the Caribbean world, either London servers learned how to lace corsets (like in the real world), or in this world women in London must have learned not to breathe.
@@alex_zetsu The purpose of stays in the 17th and 18th century was to smooth out the figure and provide support for your clothing, not to mold the waist. In Victorian and Edwardian eras when waist reduction was the fashion on average a corset would take 2-4" off your natural waist. The idea that women would lace down to 18" is a fiction that was made up in Gone With the Wind. Average waist measurements for women tended to be around 25-27".
@@erwin669 I was just pointing out it wasn't supposed to strangle you if done properly. In the movie Elizabeth made the comment women in London must have learned not to breathe. The out of universe explanation is that they needed a corset joke. In-universe, either Elizabeth is right (for the joke), or it's not being put on right (meaning all the women in London are not suffering the way she did).
I think the first time I saw this scene as a kid I didn’t think the issue was, corsets = bad/constricting to 🚺 independence like it wanted me to think. I honestly thought the dad just got the dress in the wrong size and she was struggling putting it on, but didn’t want to tell him so she wouldn’t ruin his gift. Dad getting the dress in the wrong size sounds like something my own dad would’ve done too.
Guh this scene pisses me off so much. As a costume design student, I know for a fact that stays and corset were NEVER laced that tight unless you were REALLY stupid. The shape you got was from the way the pattern pieces were cut. Not from heavy lacing and boning. If you want to see what I mean, watch Bernadette banners constructing a corset video.
Historically speaking, no. He would be the perfect age for a wife, and her the perfect age for a husband. Husbands were often older (becasue they finally had their finances and whatnot all together), and women were often younger (because of child bearing odds and transfer of dependence from an aging father to a less aged husband).... widows/ers and less wealthy citizens had other factors, but this is what would apply to Norrington and Elisabeth
Well, for the time period - not so much. Especially considering she's a lady of rank, she could expect to marry before her 20th birthday. If you've ever seen the movie THE MASK OF ZORRO, there is a scene where Antonio Banderas's character is asked what he thinks is the proper (When he's pretending to be a nobleman, to get closer to the bad guy) pursuits for a noble/titled gentleman, and his response is, "Improving one's holdings, so as to provide lavish comforts for a lady". They nailed the attitude/belief in why you had men in their later 30s/early-to-mid 40s marrying women who were 17-22yrs old. He was to provide comfort, security, home, etc. and she was to provide a beautiful face at his side, children to carry his name/expand his family's reach, and a comfort to her husband. And, as mentioned elsewhere in the comments, a girl went from being her aged father's property/responsibility/dependent to being her not-as-aged-but-a-good-deal-older-than-her husband's property/responsibility/dependent. Once she was married, it was her job to have babies quickly, then often thereafter. She was especially prevailed upon to have sons. In an age where infant mortality rates were insanely high and many children died before they were old enough to be of courting age, you had to make up for that in numbers, to ensure lineage survival. If a man was a gentleman of rank, he wanted a wife young enough to birth him several sons, in the hopes that a couple of them (and maybe a couple daughters, to marry off for connections to other families) might live long enough to inherit/marry/have sons of their own. Not that these people didn't love their children or anything, they weren't machines. Just that everyone had to keep in mind that having a single male heir wasn't any sort of garentee that your name/fortune/whatever would survive past your own generation. In fact, if you look at families where there is only one son (perhaps there are tons of daughters, perhaps the husband/father died as was himself the only male heir of his generation, or maybe all the other sons seem to die before they are old enough to walk, whatever the circumstances) left to follow the father's footsteps in the family - he is often treated like a porcelain doll in many ways, trying to ensure his survival. There are stories of such sons, who weren't permitted to ride on horseback until they had a son of their own so they always rode in a carriage. That they weren't allowed to sleep in rooms alone, for fear they might catch cold in the night and become too ill by morning for anyone to save them. Some even were kept away from towns, cities, and crowded festivals for fear they would catch any illness going through (TB, Cholera, what have you) and die. Wow, can you tell I'm a history person? Hahaha.
Leesil M. A great historical lesson. I'm a lover of history as well. Also much of the reason behind not marrying for love. Basically a guarantee that Will and Elizabeth wouldn't happen in the 18th century. It's like what Governor Swan says at the end "This is the path you've chosen is it? After all, he is a blacksmith." Meaning, while a trade, it's not going to provide you a comfortable lifestyle.
@@FiFitddey you mean like the waist line of your pants or a skirt? Unless you are naked or wear overly loose clothing you're going to have something pressing against your stomach.
Fashion was a status symbol, like a mercadies. So, Im guessing they wanted to. Corsets/stays means you had enough servents to help you put it on, you were rich/cultered enough to own it, & it provided an easy, basic body shape so you wouldn't have to order new clothes every 6months.
@@FiFitddey I mean, I use mine because I want to... You forget, women didn't have bras, or back braces, or chiropractors, or standard pain meds, or even backs on most chairs! The higher class women, maybe you could argue that a little bit, but the lower class women really went out of their way (physically & financial) to get this underwear.
July Rose you are right, But in some point I see it as an "obligation" for them and here we have an example that Elizabeth didn’t wanted to use it and it doesn’t let her breathe, but what you saying is true
This is not how you lace up a stays corset or any corset probably. Corsets aren’t supposed to make you suffocate like in this scene (clearly the maids were retards at their jobs). Corsets were their bras back then it was only supposed to straighten your back and push up the cleavage. Basically what I’m saying is if you’re wearing a corset that is tight on you then it’s being worn wrong
