Ahh " Hastings " in 76', I was 16 doing my first ever engine rebuild to my first car... 69' Chevelle SS, on the L72 427 (still have all the parts... lol) . Anyway... I put " Hastings " rings in that motor... so your comment took me back there... an added bonus to " STEVE TECH " this morning, thanks brother! 《To this day I can remember every part, every clearance, and every piece in my head photographically, whew... EVEN the BLACK BOX with " HASTINGS " emblazoned on the front... 》 Thanks! Seth
Woo Hoo! Awesome vid. You kinda validated some of my goofball theories and taught me some new stuff. I raced you & Tom at DW '19 in my Franklin. Want to get freaked out? The car is n/a, about 5.5:1 compression, 2500 RPM max. I run 3/32, 3/32, 3/16 rings. Top is square, 2nd is Tortional Twist, oil is symmetric bevel cast iron. I have all rings back cut to .125 radial thickness, gap is way open because they were butting up... the old air cooled engine runs pretty hot so: .020 top, .022 2nd, .020 oil (3.28" bore). The previous builder put standard 1949 Pontiac 248 rings in it: barrel top, square 2nd, 3 piece oil. With all rings installed the radial pressure was ~26 lbs. With my stupid package it dropped to ~5 lbs. It used a ton of oil for the first 5k miles but after that it stabilized and works pretty good. So what do ya say? Can I have a job? LOL
Ha ha ha .... @ around 9:40 in the video, what you didn't see was Steve thought he was done and going to get to eat his hamburger and the kid was like "Dad, what are you doing ? We got 20 more minutes over content to cover"!! "Dangit .... I'm hungry...come on guys, let's eat first" !! Well, that's what I was feeling anyway. LOL
Nice job of covering all the aspects of rings. I've tried the zero gap second ring once in a NA application. Leak down and compression was great: used oil like a tanker, couldn't get it to seal up until I changed out the zero gap second ring. Thanks for passing along your knowledge. j
Great comment on second ring cap I learn to subdue in a 7.3 diesel had major excessive Gap on second ring we thought the ring Grinders messed up but we learned that the second ring was made bigger for the combustion gases passing that pass first ring allowing the first ring to work more efficiently
I am pretty comfortable with wrenching but I never really dove into the science behind ring sets, I usually just install them per instructions or the dot. This makes me pretty happy because now I have a better understanding of "reasoning" behind some engine builders odd (to me) choices. Thanks, always look forward to seeing knowledge videos from epic engine builders.
Once again I am truly impressed by the common sense knowledge and experience of Steve Morris. I have worked with my share of engine builders, and nearly all for SC LS's in the last few years, and all with Holley EFI - I guarantee none of them has 1/2 the knowledge of how to make the power and reliability of SM. Why my next engine or at the very least all the components are coming from SM. Thanks Steve!
Have you tried chrome top rings? I know you mainly go super high end power stuff but say someone wanted a 1200hp bbc to go 100,000 miles? Wouldn’t a standard steel be pretty worn out by then.
👍 Good tech vid! I agree with you, but I am old school. I won’t sacrifice reliability for a few horsepower either, same goes for low viscosity oil. A few extra horsepower n/a or boosted isn’t worth it. I prefer longevity.
Interesting . Makes sense I've always done the second ring tighter . Always noticed in engines I put together with using lots of nos that the first ring looked beat up and would actually get carbon between the rings .. wonder if it was the top ring fluttering
Interesting take. I just seen a interview between total seal and kasse. Jon focused on the piston ring groove gap as the biggest area of detail in each application. The flutter you mentioned was addressed because of that gap. On gas port designs it was found to leak much more past the inside of the rings then the wall side. I believe some manufacturers are adding a steall ring groove within the pistons to carry tighter ring packs. To me that makes alot more sense with the top ring and the heat you mentioned.
Always know what ring you have before designing a piston. Gas ported shelf pistons leak more because they have a universal ring groove radial clearance. Setting the ring groove to a specific radial dimension for a specific ring's radial thickness is key, and will seal a ton better. The thicker the ring, the more the ring has the ability to transfer heat into the bore wall, which is cooled by the coolant. Thinner rings do not do as good a job.
As an ex skateboarder, I really loved the video add before this even starts. I haven't even watched the actual video yet. Hell yeah! Skateboarding is so much fun!
Awesome video. I'm looking for serious information on cylinder wall distortion. Meaning I've tested a few engines that were honed with torque plates and have round holes. Bolt the heads on and flip it upside down and distortion is all over place. I'm sure this is a very guarded secret and very few builders will take the many hours of extra time to correct. But, any info at all would really be appreciated.
Man the eyebrow on that button looks thin and scary. I would tighten the second land up to shorten compression height to get more material in the button eyebrow or increase comp height so button doesn’t run into the second land thus not needing a eyebrow. I worked in engineering for Miller @ BME. He taught me a whole lot. When designing a piston you start with the ring stack he always preferred ductal rings. I like the .017 or .043 dykes over vertical or radial gas ports with low tension rings. 75-80% of the combustion heat is transferred to the cylinder wall via the top ring. With the trend of going to shorter vertical face rings. You must anodize the ring groove to inhibit the blazing hot compression rings from micro welding it’s self into the groove. NASCAR guys and their .5mm rings pay 100$ a piston just to anodize the top groove. Getting the Ring stack as strong as possible while keeping the compression height as short as possible eliminating flex in the crown via short pin boss towers.
I wonder how much shit Steve blew up learning how to make an engine live? Hastings Michigan? Use to race Snowmobiles out at the fairgrounds. I wonder if Steve ever climbed on a quick one?
I'm just curious if you ever use the Total Seal rings, particularly the Gas Port ring setup? Or, a vacuum pump for the crankcase pressure relief, or an oil tank?
Thx, your videos are a wonderful library of practical hi-perf engine building info. Something I'd like to know: what are the pros and cons of running a piston with pin bores that intersect the oil ring groove? I've noticed that OEM engine designs (I think) never use this configuration. I understand the obvious pro of allowing either a longer rod or larger crank stroke to fit into a given block deck height, but are there also some less obvious differences?
Steve Morris Engines,What are your thoughts on gapless top rings?I like them myself and have always had good results but never had anything at the power levels you play with.
May be a dumb question but I come from the diesel side of things and was curious as to why the boosted spark ignition motors are not using a keystone top ring? Is it due to the piston ring groove being too soft and the keystone ring would just beat itself out? I imagine the cylinder pressures in these 3,000 hp motors are nearing and or exceeding the pressures in the diesel producing the same 2500 ft lbs to a methanal turbo motor producing the same 2500 ft lbs. just from a curiosity stand point. On our end the forged pistons w/o the ni cast insert for the top rings do not last long in the diesel world.
CRAZY COOL STEVE BEST DESIGN & ENGINEERING VID SERIES OUT THERE THANKS.ITS SEEMS SO RIGHT TO KNOW THE HOW AND WHY FROM TOP ENGINE DESIGN AND BUILDER YOUNG GEARHEAD CRACK IS WAT THESE VIDS R U AND UR SON WOW CONGRATES TO U BOTH
Steve, do you do anything different in the rings between a dry and wet sump? The negative pressure of the dry sump can change the ring stance, is this something you bother with or treat them all the same?
Whats your opinion on stainless top rings, late 80s early 90s 5.0 HO engines had stainless and can take hellatios abuse and still have 5-15% leak down at 200k miles with very minimal oil consumption if any noticeable between oil changes. Ive used the same rings, this is the 3rd block, and at last check had 12% LD on the worst cylinder. On a mild 351W with 20-25psi primarily track use and random street driving to and from local track, whats your thoughts on ring package?
Thank you for the info on rings Steve. Got one question for you on tops of pistons. I know lot of piston companies sell pistons with with coatings for the tops of pistons, what is your thoughts on a highly polished finish for the tops of pistons. Was just sitting here thinking about it while watching and learning from your video.
Good lesson Steve ! You ever build a Chevy V-6 ? Blew my V-6 in my 2015 Camaro. Trying to decide rebuild or LS swap. Built several LS's just not a V-6. Is it worth it?
Sorry about my spelling I was not set on autocorrect also been watching all your vids lately with Cletus his first six second pass and the Midwest drags and also Tom Bailey can't wait to get mine together so I can indulge thank you much again you'll be hearing from me very soon
Hey brother what’s your opinion on those gapless piston rings I have a blown small block Ford and i’ve read a lot of good things about them but I think most of it is probably sponsored and and they are not easy to change and an afternoon if something is wrong and you’re lucky enough it didn’t cause major damage it’s very obvious you know what you’re doing so I would greatly appreciate your advice
