PLANNING PERMISSION REJECTED - What do we do next? 

This video demonstrates everything that is wrong with this country on so many levels.

There should be the option to take local planning agencies to court for contradiction in their own policy

I love the fact, that you both remain, quite positive. Great attitude and no doubt, difficult to maintain, at times.

My wife and I have do 4 self builds and planners sometimes think they are Gods and I understand your frustration but keep on talking to them. You might not get exactly what you want but I’m sure you will get there in the end.

What an absolute palaver. Good job you had the cabin build to keep you going. Can't imagine the stress levels with living elsewhere, building the cabin, fighting the local council and keeping all of us entertained on YT ALL at the same time. Superhuman the pair of you. I hope it gets sorted soon, that's gonna be an awesome series of videos converting it, looking forward to it.

Stay strong you two. Think of the content!

Wishing u all the very best guys. Been following your journey from house to house to farm!!! You will get there in the end.

Thanks Tim for your information on this we have a similar plan for ourselves here in Cornwall, hope you can get somewhere with yours in the future, love seeing you and your families progress, cheers Steve .

I’m keeping my fingers x for you guys, you need this and hopefully all will be good

I feel your pain. Took us 2 years to get planning... numerous delays and very little communication. Keep pushing!

Planning officials should be working with owners to help them with the process instead of taking on an adversarial role. Find ways to help and advise instead of looking for reasons to deny

The wild flowers are looking gorgeous!!!! I entirely agree that agricultural/industrial exteriors on homes often look stunning when inside is all cosy and welcoming and homely - fabulous contrast. You'll get there... 🤗❤

HI Tim, We feel for you guys , we had the same issue on our old house, so we did the very basic to get it passed , then waited while and did what we want to do it , never had an issue planning still clueless after all these years

What a journey you've been on - well done on keeping focused on progress and not being steamrollered by the frustrations. The lack of resource is clear in nearly every single local authority planning office just now; I work in property development finance and it's a story I'm hearing time and time again all across the UK. It's frustrating that the planner here sounds like they're under significant capacity pressure and instead of having the time to consider your application properly, has had to kick the can down the road by finding (creating?) minor issues, many erroneous. It is costing you time and money, both of which are always at a stretch on any development project! Please keep up the great work - you WILL get there! I got quite excited when Tim mentioned 'oak framed mezzanine'!

Blimey … keep going! if all else fails go to appeal. Well done guys … love the channel

Keep going, you'll get there. Wildflowers look amazing btw

Hi Tim, hi Joe, I have to say that I felt my shuffle is rising as I watch this video. We are about to move into our forever home and we would like to do some alterations on it (residential) and to be honest with you, I thought of having to go through all this roof and hassle through a planning committee is really starting to wonder whether or not to even bother as one of your comments have already stated applied for the basic and do the rest of your own that seems to be the way to go!

You’ll get there guys, never give up

You gave away a few details on your farm in this video... I have a feeling there will be some good news soon ;)

Hope fully some of the waffle mr Gove announced today will help you out guys. Keep smiling and good luck

I'm convinced that council planners reject applications so that they can make money on the multiple reapplications that they know you and others will make .I bet any planning applications for the council's own project have no rejection notices..keep at them they will concede in the end.

Stick at it, you’ll get there…👍🏻

It will still be interesting to understand what went into the planning process

I'm a planning officer, we meant to be proactive, I don't refuse anything that would likely be overturned by appeal. Sorry for stress. There are good officers out there.

I’m blessed that all the various inspectors and planning officials I’ve had to deal with were always seated in reality, and aware of the *intent* of the regulations, and willing to observe the in-situ nature of various aspects of a project. That said, I’ve also been aware of local high profile projects where the landowner was a right wally, and doing everything they could to try and get around requirements and procedures, and try and do stupid things with no regard for the whys of regulations, and even less regard for their neighbours.

This just shows the incompetence thats rife within smaller councils in the UK. Smacks of laziness from the council and lack of due diligence on their side (rejected to ultimately meet deadlines or maintain numbers) Examples like this and Clarkson's Farm are bringing these issues to light to more and more of the people these councils are supposed to SERVE, so well done and wish you all the best!

We are just embarking on this ourselves, it is har enough to just find a planning agent that seems to know about it.......fingers crossed for everyone else in the same boat!!!

Planning in this country is an absolute shambles, the rules are a mess and the people who work in planning manage to be clueless whilst having a god complex. I've got a friend who works in planning and another who used to work in the Land Registry until recently and both of them say those places are full of people who do the bare minimum and are basically sitting tight until retirement. Best of luck and keep fighting and educating!

I should not have watched this video. My blood is absolutely boiling. Jo & Tim, I really don't know where you guys get your patience from. I would have blown a fuse having those discussions with the Planning Department. At some point I think we should start a revolution against this kind of stupid, unnecessary frustrating procedure for what is in fact an improvement on the building that is there at the moment. Love you guys and I hope you guys get sorted soon. ❤🤞

Gosh, can’t believe they have not done a proper site visit! Especially when they claim the smaller guttering issues etc. That’s incredibly bad form. Having said that, one would think the easiest way to get the application ‘off your desk’ is to go on site & talk. Then it’s more likely to be complete & ‘off the desk’. Seems like what you are receiving is tick & flick response. Sounds like you’ve got a bit further by now, you are both very patient! Love your videos, cheers from Australia 🇦🇺

I went to a recent planning meeting and one of the committee members on the board that week asked "what's an annex". Sums up planning in this country

I really feel for you both. Don’t give up. Perhaps a cover letter saying you are happy to talk should they have any question might help? The whole process sounds very frustrating.

Similar story with our planning application in Northampshire. Me and my wife with three kids bought a bungalow in a small hamlet of 25 houses two years ago as a project house. All the houses in the hamlet with 3 exceptions are two to three storey houses and two of our planning applications including an appeal were now rejected. Beyond frustrating…

So frustrating and disappointing. It seems similar where we live, the people that try and follow the rules get pushed back constantly, and yet we have a development well over halfway through just up the road, that has no planning permit at all, and no order to desist! It’s a crazy contradictory world, but I have faith that you will eventually succeed. Sending positive thoughts xxx PS Jo, the wildflowers are amazing. Well done!

It can be misleading looking at other people's barns because a number were passed on appeal a few years back but then those appeals were not followed by other appeal inspectors, in plain language it was felt that some of the pre 2018 ones went too far! Another thing is that some people get a Class Q approval and then submit a planning application for certain tweaks to the building, so what you are looking at may not have been passed on a Class Q. Anyway glad you are making progress :). You made a very good point at the end about each LA having a different policy, it is what it is. I do think it is justified in the case of your LA though due to there being a lot of highly sensitive sites in your locality.

To keep positive you need to remember that in a few years you will be sat on your new patio with a beer, and all these issues will be a distant memory!

Many years a ago I worked in building control, I remember my boss coming back from a meeting and expressing…… let’s say frustration about the planners and there large book of grey. There are no hard and fast rules just guidelines. These can be interpreted many ways. He got frustrated and he worked for the same authority. The knowledge of local plan is so important along with knowing the people within planning department as you now know 🙈🙉🙈. Makes good RU-vid on the positive side 😁

My niece has had their self build application for a log house turned down, even though they explained, it was the only way they were ever going to get a house in the area and native to the area and both working in the area, based on a complaint, an unofficial complaint believe it or not by the parent of the person who owns the house opposite (the only house on the road) , who was once a counsellor on the planning committee? Their dreams are in tatters. They don’t have the money to go through appeals etc

I am catching up on your videos which are fantastic. As others have said, you have so much patience. This demonstrates how much is wrong with government and local government. They seem to forget who pays their wages and into their pensions. The planners should be falling over themselves to help you fulfil your dream that will do so much for the rural way of life and ecosystem that you are trying to rebuild.

I call my local council ‘NO’ because they said that to everything you ask. Chin up. Love your work 👍

Leave the countryside as it is, it's much better unloved and left to rot! How dare you pour your heart and soul in to restoring a farm in a sustainable way that meets today's need to diversify and find new ways to make farm land support the families that live there. I couldn't have the patience you've had with this bureacratic bullying, hats off to you!

Great videos. Have you looked into using a DJI OSMO 6 with 3 axis gimble?

You need to be in the dodgy handshake club Tim 🤝

The level of incompetence with in these departments is worrying to say the least , especially when you consider that certain groups are allowed to construct dwellings in their backyards with no planning whatsoever and no comment from the various authorities . But that’s the state of affairs within this country , one rule for one and ……… Hope at some point a degree of that very rear item , common sense may come to your aid . Best wishes as always 😀👍👍👍 .

When will we see it on grand designs!? Good luck!

Wait, what? When you've been talking about "barn conversion" I thought you were referring to the stone barn, not that . .. concrete block and metal warehouse to put it kindly. I'd have to have a view of the bloody Alps for that to be worth it!

My goodness... I don't think I could be as cool as you guys are over this. Sounds like the planning department of your Council are on some kind of a power trip. I'd be so angry and stressed ha! Well done for being so calm and positive.

That building will make a great sleeper house, you know like a sleeper car.

Absolute madness! A local farmer has converted one of his building via class Q and it looks nothing like what was there before as he retained the steel frame but changed the cladding. He’s converted it to a holiday let and it has a hot tub outside. I do think planners reject things on flimsy grounds because they don’t like setting precedents locally. We had the same problem years ago (application was to go from pure commercial to a live work unit) and the council officers were against us but national policy and the committee members were with us so we got it. This battle has no doubt cost you ££££ and a few grey hairs. I can only recommend that you keep on with it. We got a lot of local people to write in supporting our plans. Good luck

had the exactly issue here in Shropshire, players constantly changing their requirements and contradicting themselves. notice deadlines mean nothing to them.

A question which I can’t see answered elsewhere. If you had modified your agricultural building for agricultural reasons before applying for residential planning permission would you have required planning permission for those ‘agricultural modifications’? An example might be to make an opening in the breeze block side in order to provide ingress/egress for your goats from the adjacent paddock? Or, adding ‘windows’ in the cladding to provide more natural light in order to reduce reliance on electricity (green reasons).

Guys I feel your frustration, bureaucracy gone mad and such a lack of desire to just verify detail with you and discuss concerns. You do have to question the drivers behind all of this and also the variances per county (perhaps something Mr Gove should be reviewing)! I hope you get the result you need because it is clearly a special place and as a fellow Gloucestershire resident, I certainly hope you get your 'for ever home' approved very soon. looking forward to the next update.

As a planning consultant I feel for you guys, you’ve had it hard! Class Q was introduced by the Government to enable the sustainable reuse of otherwise redundant barns to homes. For some reason despite the good intent of these PD rights some Councils believe it is their mission to actively look for refusal reasons rather than working positively with applicants to support them! The principle is established in law so they just need to embrace them. The roof overhang issue was ridiculous. Just bear in mind with appeals that whilst an Inspector should be more impartial they could in theory still find other issues not yet known / raised by the Council and if you ended up with a dismissed appeal it would be near impossible to secure any approval after that. An appeal Inspector would be more impartial but I’m not sure Id go as far as saying an appeal is dead certain. I’d spend more time going through another resubmission, address all risk elements until they have nothing left to get you on and perhaps do a pre-app as a gesture so there is no way they could claim you haven’t worked with them, then if they refuse again then appeal it and put costs application in if you can find grounds too!

There is an article in farmers weekly about the government reducing red tape for barn conversions.

A nicely stuffed brown envelope will get you any planning permission you need.

Bloody planning debt is a nightmare. I wanted to get a small deck put in to make a very steep, unusable and unsafe bit of my garden usable. They kept rejecting it because the companies who do the decking dont deal with planning, dont know how to do the documents for it, and I was expected to do all of that without knowing what it was they were going to do. The planning debt were horrible for getting info from and this went on for months before someone finaly replied and said if what I put on the plans isnt exactly what is built then it will be torn down. I gave up at that point, I cant read minds and cant draw up plans for something I am not building. I went through several companies, stating that they MUST be able to deal with the planning perms, some said yes, but when it came down to it, they wouldnt. I think most of them think they can persuade me with just doing it without the perms, but when I explain why it must be done with perms and I cant just try and say sod it, do it anyway, they start going quiet. There is a reason why I was stating they must do planning and they just wasted my time.

I feel your pain. At work they had a right headache with our local council. They wanted to replace a bridge over a river! Replacing like for like, Contacted the planning to check before they started, they said fine but we needed to build the bridge so that it would be 1meter above the highest level of the river in case any bats where hanging out!. Even though every bridge in the village was at road level. So this hump back bridge was built, the council got complaints because of the height of the bridge, council comes out and tells us to stop as this is not acceptable and we need to go for full planning permission, they were totally deaf to our cry's of you told us to do it! Then they became very petty, Amongst a whole list of things we needed to do, one was we needed to instal a handrail because of the height, one was installed. No good, we needed to instal one on each side in case a one armed person wanted to cross!!!! There does need to be a way to complain about this type of pettiness. Good luck for your 3rd application, fingers crossed you will get it this time

Do the basics then put in revised planning.I’ve doubled first application with no problems. It’s easy for councils to say No, less work for them. Good luck

... I am so sorry that they have dragged their heals last minute decisions seem to be rejected...... onsite consultation should be requested on site.. not from an office without a view. Best of luck..

Mean while a be a big house builder can remove the barn terraform the land and build 300+ houses with out a care in the world. Meanwhile individual is try to keep a farm a farm but with a modern house

Tim you are very lucky to have joe she is very beautiful

The council are waiting for that brown envelope!

Can you not apply for permitted development for a new barn (sized to suit future plans) adjacent to the existing, then apply for change of use and finish the build that way. I know ground levels aren’t the best in that field but

Welcome to the world of Clarkson, Just tell the planners that you'er "Do as you Likeys", they will be falling over themselves to give you the premission.

Sounds like they haven't got a clue .you got far more patience than me. Lol

no wonder why there is 'accidents' where buildings suddenly burst into flames. then planning application gets approved for something totally different.

I have heard of Home Owners Associations here in America getting picky and snobbish but THAT level of bureaucracy is one of the worst I have heard of. Its not as if you explained anything, you are in England and the rest of us do not understand ANY of what you're going through. Here the city has no such heavy rulings on land usage,. Yes, we have zoning, etc. but nothing so intrusive as to how any particular structure may be modified unless it changes the "zoning" due to new usage of the building (id est commercial vs residential) There are rules about building sizes in certain areas etc. but that is in larger cities. You have my admiration that you can hold your temper so well. I would probably have launched lawsuits against the individuals and the organization long ago.

Having seen what you two have gone through may I suggest that you take this case to appeal, You have more than enough evidence against the council and I am sure that you can crowd fund the expence involved ( I will put in the fund if you do this !!) A recorded delivery informing the chief exec .😮of the impending court case siting incompetance of his staff and that you will be informing the press as well, Keep up your progress and also tackle the brakes on the tractor yourself. they are all mechanical and have more than likley never had the drums off and suffering with siezed linkages, you will manage it easily and will be good viewing for your channel

Does not surprise me at all with FoD! Always have been a law unto themselves!

Is it possible to submit a video? Y'all excel in videography!!

Isambard Kindom Brunel landscaped the grounds with trees so that they could grew 24 hours a day while the building work progressed slowly. His workers also built themselves cottages . . . how to keep the workforce happy! Perhaps you are following some of the key thoughts of IKB . . . However I really do want you to live happily for many years in your forever home.

Always good to remember that local councils are filled with human failures, who have so little going on in their lives that they get their jollies by making lives difficult with others.

i have the same type of building now , with planning, my slightly different as used previously as a shop , so class MA, however i am sure you have done your research, but not been able to extend the external footprint creates a massive problem with thermal bridging through the steels and insulation design. i am quite suprised watching this video, as you are using the farm as hobby farm , i always thought you would be keeping the large building and converting the dutch barn to your house, not sure on views to rear , but great views to front and some stunning dutch barn conversions in uk , would this be an alternative option? would definately be cheaper , steel portals are expensive to convert , current guide is £3000 per sq metre , so you have a build cost of approx 1.5 million and would take away the need to sort the electric cables going over the roof of your portal barn

Sadly each time the local council queries you or your consultant that costs money, from what you aired today, most of the queries were in relation to their own planning regulations, or mistakes that they have made i.e. the error in the size of the building. I think I have to agree with some of the other comments about deciding whether there is sufficient grounds and if you have the money to take it to court. The other option is a completely out of the box solution such as using that other open face barn or the stone building, but again that now costs more money and more time, so expect to see Eden off to university before you have completed the house and sadly I am not joking!

The fact that you only got the decisions at the last possible moment on the last day honestly reminds me of reading stories about how the US healthcare system works. Insurance companies will literally reject applications without even looking at them just to "clear the backlog", and doctors have to resubmit them half a dozen times before it actually gets through the system.

So sorry about your bad news,keep going guys,oh do you live next door to Jeremy Clarkson.

I'd say get to know the people making the decisions, invite them to the farm and tell them what your plans are, if you don't get anywhere speak to your mp and the local papers. Trust me I know a guy used to get permission no matter the area. I think applications are getting easier from new news from gov today. I'd honestly invite them down and show them what you are like. They can be a pain. But try. Much love to you xx

Don’t give up guys took me 5 year to get planning on a new build home on farm land planners are so against it at all cost getting a consultant who know what there doing is worth it’s weight in gold.

Probably not the video for me to watching embarking on planning permission for an extension....... thankfully we are in the Independent State of Shap.......betwixt the Yorkshire Dales National Park, 15min East and the Lake District National Park 15 min West. I'm typing before the ended of the video, sounds incredibly frustrating. I'm hoping the video will have a better conclusion.

Just imagine that this was 11 months ago... and now you're laying block!

👍👍👍👍👍

If you convert that barn where are you going to over winter your stock?

Not 100% sure but think you’re in Gloucestershire and if it’s Forest of Dean District Council then I’d give up 😮. Only kidding, but it’s a very tough uphill battle and I’ve been through it several times including appeals and complaints. Problem with planning councils is they’re staffed by uneducated and unqualified power hungry idiots. We found handing over to consultants, who knew the oddities of the council, the only path to success. It’s no wonder this country is in the state it is and why there’s so much wasted tax payers money. Unfortunately we’re being governed, both centrally and locally, by a bunch of utter incompetent muppets. I wish you all the luck in getting your planning through and my only advice is don’t give up as persistence is key.👍

So will either of you be future councillors? and join the planning committee :) I bet you'll be glad to complete this headache.

We understand your frustration with the planning process which is led by people who lack knowledge or comprehension 😊of laws, regulations, codes of practices etc, thus are able to trot out a misinterpretation or conformational bias as a ‘fact’. The similarities with recent National governments is stunning. Simply put ,we are led by donkeys, though that is perhaps a disservice to donkeys. Am sure you will get there, and soon be getting your Building Control inspections, who we found to be , in the main, helpful and positive. Crack on, as you will create a wow forever home.

From your recounting of events it's not even that they are being sticklers for the rules. They would appear to be too lazy to do the job properly and the default is to refuse This is the default for many too councils

Not sure if it was mentioned, but what is your Local Authority and planning app Ref number(s)?

As a Planning Officer, I'm not surprised. I was curious as to how you were going to get a house of any description through planning when you first started talking about/buying the farm but you seemed very confident so I assumed you had it sorted. In respect of the Part 3, Class Q change of use I would have rejected it on day one and not wasted your time on submitting a prior approval app; the existing building exceeds 450m2 and therefore fails the test under criterion b) There is no 'wiggle' room in the GPDO, unlike most of planning where we deal with balance. Best of luck with the full application. I don't know which local authority/development plan you are under but I expect getting planning permission for more than 1 house in the open countryside will be extremely difficult.

what a shame, what council is it? We had a battle with our planning officer and then the final decision by the board was passed.

As an architect, this is an accurate representation of most planning applications I deal with unfortunately. Over my career I have seen the quality of planning officers and departments decrease dramatically. The appeal process is not really a viable option with time and cost constraints and planning committees are absolute joke. The main issue here is the lack of accountability on the part of the planning dept. Financial consequences for mistakes and poor performance seems to be the only way - this isn’t a free service after all!

What is going on with councils seriously! Just craziness

Has Michael Gove's planning changes had any effect on this at all. A quote from an article today (24/7/23 ) in the Architects Journal titled "Gove throws £24m and planning 'super squad' at housing logjam" quotes - "And Gove has pledged to cut red tape to allow barn conversions and the repurposing of agricultural buildings and disused warehouses." Maybe your appeal/follow-on application could include some relevant details from the big boss. ( I was going to say top man, but we are talking about Michael Gove here!!!

Keep going. Take it to the ombudsmen if you need to.

Like a lot of goverment workers "work" from home (day time tv Ipad) then 2 days have to go to the office, what a bind and then there is a file that needs looking at god forbid LOL. I looked up class 2 and there are some that ¼ of the roof has gone and mostly glazed all round Its mad

Great video I'm not going to buy a farm conversion know

Dorset Council by any chance?

Was the house in the background originally part of the farm…

No, I’m not sure where you are in the country, but I’d hazard a guess that’s Wychavon Council?

Come to jersey ,it's all brown envelops here ££££

Looks like you've got the same planners as Jeremy Clarkson 😳😂