As an ex council officer, the one thing which causes the elected members to reveal all communications, telephone conversations, text messages, emails, minutes formal and informal discussion with officers is a Freedom of Information Inquiry. Ask for a full disclosure of any and every time your names, your addresses, your applications and any ancillary communications with regard to yourselves or your property, and objections/supporting statements have been processed or undertaken by elected members or council officers.
@@johnmit I have heard about that, would use it before or after the process of application. Refusal....it might be he als needs similar proof of works ie farm conversion typez to further prove of belligerence, of refusal, last minute decisions.... realisation they dont have the time so make up... an excuse. Data subject access would define works on planning application.
What I find aggravating is that twice someone from the council has turned up unannounced, to pry about, yet they refuse to come to a site meeting to discuss the plans. My feeling is, they'll run out of excuses for refusal, and be forced to allow the conversion. Fair play, you two, for remaining so calm. Good luck, going forward.
If you get on with your local councillor ask them to call the application in and for it be decided by the area planning committee, this will take the decision off the planners. It worked for me
We are desperately short of skilled young farmers; our food supply chains are weak and we really need people to prioritise nature-friendly farming. Our government and local councils pay lip service to progress in all these areas. It makes no sense to stop working families from living on their land. Planning applications for commuter houses in villages are passed without question, so why can’t we have some sensible arrangements here? It is so sad to see competent, respectful people driven to distraction by bureaucracy. Good luck, and please don’t give up!
I had exactly this (conservation area), 3 planning applications later, I finally appealed. Wish I’d just done that straight away. Just appeal and present the points at appeal, they have to justify their position.
I’m absolutely on your side guys….. but…..Not so sure if putting this out just now may help if the Planning Department are looking at social media. Could make it personal and more difficult but I really hope I’m wrong. 🤕 Best of luck with the application process, either way you should get something in the end 🤞🙏👍
Council staff and civil servants hate publicity and transparency. Because that means they will have to do their job properly. Here they aren't doing their job properly. They know how to abuse the system for their own needs, totally ignoring the fact that they serve the public. Yes they will retaliate because of the social media publicity which embarasses them, but it tends to make their position worse as they show that they are acting under emotions rather than facts.
You can re roof your "farm building" as a "farm building" prior to any planning application. Stick some goats in there for a year, make your changes, new door ways, re roof, (just roof over the top with insulated roofing to save disturbing the asbestos) replace the yorkshire boarding etc. Even put a mez in as a farm building.... Probably too late now.
Same idea works for residential planning. Build a new garage under permitted development before putting in the planning for the new house. The new garage doesn't need to be included in the planning so you get it for free.
@@TheSadButMadLad its a fixed fee for a house (£462) whether it has a garage or not. Actually better to include garages/parking in the full application because it demonstrates availability of off street parking.
Just remember If you have at least 12 1/2 acres of agricultural land it will open you up to permitted development rights which then gives you barn builders rights and that means if you are building a barn you can live on site whilst your building it so submit an application for pre development of a barn once you’ve submitted the paperwork you will be able to live there in about 28 days but you don’t have to start building anything for 3 years and then once you start building it you then have 3 years to complete it and then every 3 years apply to build another barn…
barn builders rights? nonsense.. there is no 'agricultural permitted development', there is Agricultural Prior Approval which means permission must be sought first.. The route you misdescribe is the exact same policy as both Class Q and Class R, so if you use a 28-day notice for building a barn for agricultural purposes, then you automatically LOSE the barn converion to dwelling route for a period of 10-years and this is rolling 10-years for every barn you apply for after it afterwards.
My parents had this same issue with planning recently for the extension of a 300 year old cottage - it was pretty much a knock it down and rebuild it bigger job keeping the front wall. The first 2 planning applications were refused on pretty unreasonable grounds, the second finding issues that weren't raised in the first and contrary to pre-planning advice. They did a third application for a scheme they didn't really want to do but would get through, it got accepted and they appealed the second application and got it.
Friends of ours went through similar planning bureaucracy as you, but with a listed building. After the third time of having planning refused, they re-applied, also put in an appeal, and let it be subtly known that they had employed a private investigator to make enquiries about the Head of Planning. They got exactly what they wanted! Funny that. I don’t even know that they found out anything on him, but he was clearly fearful, so maybe had something to hide. Who knows? Worked though 😬😀
This is the same (although different) all over the country. The councils like to assert thier power to ruin peoples hopes and dreams. Even jeremy clarkson is having issues forming a resturant run by a farm cooperative. I hope you eventually do get something approved.
What your going through with your council has a similar theme to what Jeremy Clarkson’s Diddly Squat Farm went through with their council planning committee ! Good luck , hope you two get your plans approved soon :)))
Hi Tim Jo, have you thought of converting the old stone buildings on the farm you have there and leave the bigger building for another time ? Here in Cornwall there are hardly any old barns left which haven't been done now, you can always go back to the planners for change of use on the big barn later, cheers Steve
Of all the buildings this is the most straightforward unfortunately. All the others get into the bat roosts, listed buildings and heritage impact. This will probably all seem like child's play when we get to those! 😂
Oh my word, what a trial! Council planners really seem to have some odd ideas about things. I've been through a similar (much smaller scale) process with my local lot - we needed an extension to fit all the kids and work-from-home space since Covid and we got turned down several times for slightly different reasons (all unrelated to changes made to satisfy the previous refusal, like yours). In the end we decided to just move and start fresh. 12 months later and we've nearly finished the build but still get the odd bit of trouble from neighbours complaining to the council and them popping down to tell us what we're doing isn't allowed (yet it clearly is, so we have to fight them back). Good luck to you guys, I hope you get it all sorted!
Gove has released some kind of policy for house building, I know little about it, but I’m sure I read something about converting existing buildings into dwellings. Wether that covers your situation or not I don’t know, but maybe it’s worth a look??
I am convinced that where they run out of time to process planning applications they just reject them. The public has little recourse but to resubmit. A good money maker too.
I knew a couple of guys who were trying to develop a 'difficult' site locally (Essex) and after many attempts ended up hiring a Barrister for 'a LOT of money'.. and he got it through.. Perhaps you have to change your tack and start hiring someone further up the Occupational foodchain.. I hope you are not forced to give up.. Good luck
I know it would be adding to your risk at the moment. But wouldnt you be able to re roof and re clad it now just to carry on using it as a barn without the need for any need to notify them? If you happened to change your mind later and submit planning so be it?
😂 been there done it with our council…. We’ve fought and fought and fought for years, neighbours are still phoning the council every time I do anything but I think the planning officers are now fed up themselves of fighting me!
From a different planet. And i bet most of them tell people "I'm very important at the council" when they live miserable boring mundane lives outside it.
I thought class q basically they have no say if it meets the criteria. They seem to operating outside the framework of the guidance. For the cabin I don't see how they can deny a temporary occupational workers permission (although they probably will). I know it's different councils but our neighbours have got a tiny field and have managed to get an ag tie just by having a handful of sheep (after living in a mobile home without permission, then temporary permission, then the ag tie). Another instance class q was allowed on a tin barn within a flood plain but the company handling the application pulled every trick to get it passed (despite two rejections). The subsequent owners have not stayed within class q to put it mildly!
Just proves how clumsy these regs are if they can’t be adapted to your situation. They obviously were made for scenarios and problems that you and your farm do not threaten.
The alarm bells should have rung when the council said "we don't like these" regarding the class Q. They are a law unto themselves. Feels like watching Clarksons Farm
Hard to comprehend how planning authority has treated you😡How to destroy a couples dreams of building a family home and potential business because of Petty Issues.I think they get a kick out of it and just enjoy putting obstacles in the way.Just hope the Video’s don’t make the planning even harder to obtain.
To be honest that is what I fear may happen…. You can be absolutely certain they will check social media. It may not be the best way to get them on your side 🤕
The council are probably be better geared up for making Tim and Jo homeless and putting them into B&B accommodation. Can they not see the good these people and that building will bring to the community.
Tim if you rolled up your trousers leg and have brown envelope you get what you want. This was a big gamble, but both of you are hard working just keep your heads up, you will get there later than sooner.
Unfortunately, you are honest and an easy target for an over zealous planning dept. Now if you were traveller’s applying for the same we all know the what the result would be and the planning dept wouldn’t dare send an enforcement officer out, intruding into your children’s rooms. Blood boils for you. Fight the good fight Tim and Jo
Try pulling your eye lid down as far as it goes and blowing your nose, and singing " Hold the lantern grandmother, while i shave the chickens lip" .... mush easier than dealing with planning
Credit to you both that you can keep smiling, but I know inside your probably on fire with rage!! They love the power, and there will never be any common sense when it comes to Council Officials! You have to fight them all the time, and it’s draining as well a costly! I’m sure a housing project of 500 new builds would be signed of in a stroke!! Wish you the best of luck, and at least they can’t stop you enjoying your lifestyle! Keep fighting! 🥊
Having now researched Class Q consent I think the scope of building works proposed fails the "conversion" test set out in the Class Q provisions. The permitted development right under Class Q assumes that the agricultural building is capable of functioning as a dwelling. It is not the intention of the permitted development right to include the construction of new structural elements for the building (Hibbitt & Anor v Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government & Ors). Accordingly, council should refuse your application and you should make a full permit application. Suggest you discuss this with your planning consultant.
You are right, Hibbitt is one case used in our apps. No new structural elements were made to enable conversion and the existing frame and structure used to support the building rather than a 'russian doll' conversion. Mezz is independent. This side of things was never questioned and the refusal issues are around materials rather than structure.
Totally ridiculous abuse of authority. I can so understand why so many leave and go to other countries to do restorative work. Push your Parliament to force Councils to modify and reduce restrictions and abuse.
We couldn't extend and renew our rotten wood frame porch on the farm house by 1 foot, yet an ugly massive factory that is only 400 metres away could be built, which can be seen from miles away and has now ruined ours and many others view of the countryside. I just do not agree with planning permissions anymore, sounds like a money in the pocket deal to me. It's one deal for one person and something completely different for others.
Feel your pain sending you positive vibes planning rules are wild!!! It does honestly seem to me like a lottery or some know whose palms to grease!!!!Fingers crosses for you, it feels like this country isn’t doesn’t want farmers producing food, just rewilding eco projects....mad!!!!!
Every English Council is the same. My step dad got refused planning for a golf course because a village 10 miles away had a golf course already. The same council also refused a swimming baths (which was sorely needed) because there was an awful run down one in the next town. There's no logic, they just hate any kind of change.
@thebigjr9995 it's the act broken into a guide framework and then unto a local strategy and a detailed local plan. If golf course or pool meets needs is sustainable then they would have allowed it.
@@jcoul1sc From what I can ascertain plans was submitted and rejected even after changes, running down the clock and then denying other points not mentioned before correct? Going to the property not introducing yourselves {seen on camera} not inspecting or investing properly. The gutter or trim that fell off and was claimed to be extending the building. This council I believe isn't there to help at no point have they malice.
@jcoul1sc not true. Leeds had a desperate lack of swimming pools in the 1980s. There were 3 for 600000 people. We couldn't learn to swim because every pool was booked up. We had to learn in the next city. It was simply little angry men with a small amount of power that hated change. My guess is its similar in this situation.
I feel for your frustration but I suspect that you have now resolved the issues re the barn and the mobile home As you said in the last video back in November and you are only now putting out the videos Yes telling the truth and being very open I await #3 where we will find out then outcome
Maybe a smaller building, almost 5000sq ft is a huge home. Can you not arrange a sit down with the planners and find a compromise. Trouble with consultants I found was they work for £ not for a cause. You can take it all the way as you have time seeing as the cabin is not yet completed and other farm buildings need attention.
Isn’t there a barn building act where you can live on site for up to 5 years whilst barn is under construction? I’m sure you don’t even need planning permission you just have to notify the council. Could “start”building a barn give yourselves some time haha
Some council planning departments are I guess overwhelmed by the building of new estates by strong arm developers, so simply can't cope with the bespoke applications. Planning consultants may be more dangerous than they are worth so unless you are convinced they are batting for your team I'd be very careful. Stick to permitted dev only. I can only wish you the very best of luck. You still seem to be laughing, keep it up, and don't fall out eith the council but try to get inside their heads. Jo may be the best negotiator. Move the temp accomodation to a caravan site if you are forced (point out the environmental costs of that though). And good luck!
Hope your new consultant has some brilliant ideas that are very difficult to oppose. Tim - the one thing that is outstandingly amazing about you is your honesty . . . I asked you a question about chair varnish when I visited - to see what your reaction would be . . . Didn't not expect your answer to be so brutally honest (which is good). People can be compared to the game of **Snakes and Ladders** - honesty is a tall ladder. In turns of human behaviour - it is easy to convert these into a snake or a ladder. I believe in certain circumstances Councils have to grant the right for a temporary building (for the builder to live in) while a new barn is constructed . . . some foundations would suffice You may also have a right to accommodation to be provided by the council if they won't let you live in your temporary accommodation. It would be interesting to ask questions about the council providing accommodation for your family . . . the council will know about their obligations.
It's making my blood boil just hearing of your problems so how you are so calm about it all is beyond me. If the next outcome is also negative then there is the option of a redress and a judicial review. Not cheap but I'm sure a fund raising campaign of some description to help could be arranged?
Not sure if this relevant to you, but we lived next door to sheltered housing that was vacant. These premises were aquired by a Developer and they built nine town houses into the same space as the original five. We objected and of course lost, but during the planning meeting we found out that the Developer had made a 'cash donation' to the Council. We assumed this was legal, so could you try the same ploy. No idea how much money changed hands though.
Imo council workers tend to get power hungry and I wonder if it was the approach the consultant took. There is so much inconsistency with councils though it's no wonder developers target certain areas
This bull how is a family can’t get planning and local authorities to communicate properly with them. But business get permission usually after second revised application. I think we need to go to council and protest, you making something old and giving it new live but 4 bed room house can be built with pages and pages of snags.
Ffs the way I'd do it I'd contact a building control solicitor and serve them a legal notice, they will do it to you, so play the game. The planning department should be sacked.
If you want to know a person's character, observe their behavior when they're given just a little power over others. Truth is, most people are control freaks.
What a nightmare for you both. We are looking for land at the moment, and want to live off grid. We are looking at many different options at the moment. I would not have allowed them to take pictures, they have no right, unless you give them permition. It's just more amunition to have another pop at you. I would put a Notice of implied Rights of Access at the entrance to your land. this basicaly stops anyone entering your property without your permition, and is an act of tresspass and can be used in a court of law. Even an enforcment officer cannot enter. Will be keeping our fingers crossed for you that it all works out....... One option that we are concidering looking at, is to set up as a private trust to see if that has any additional benefits.
I just don't understand why they are being purposefully difficult when you've jumped through all of their hoops, what affect does it have on them, zero. Never understood people like that, mini power trips 😡 Best of luck with your latest application 🤞
They are clearly checking the regulations to find everything they can, but if its your land they have no right telling you you cant live there, bonkers councils & planning.
Please consider cutting through the myth of what's "custom and practice" and invite your Planning Officer to meet you on the Farm and have CONVERSATION about what's expected and what's possible with Her, or him, Do NOT invite your "consultant. Tell him/her the outcomes and your instructions.
Hi Tim , sorry to hear your having all this nonsense about planning , you can see why now people build with out planning and hide it , to me it sounds like jealousy from the council
I have to ask why would you let some stranger (enfordment officer or not) onto your land/into your temporary accommodation and take photos?!? I feel so bad for you guys, planning here in Ireland is just as difficult, a wise old builder once told me when it comes to planning just give the planners what they want to get the approval over the line and then you can 'adjust the design' after the fact 😉
This is making my blood boil 😅 To be a fly on the wall with these people, just to understand what exactly their issue is other than being typical narrow minded councillors on a power trip. Edit: I'd be the same regarding the class Q, surely, if you do 100 applications they eventually have to say this meets the guidelines, otherwise they are just a law unto themselves, some fights aren't worth fighting though 😂
There are national planning rules and local rules, planners just follow them. Ultimately he can appeal to Michael Gove, but it would be fruitless, Gove has to abide by rules too
@@jcoul1sc Rules are implemented with a degree of subjectivity and interpretation, to say that due to a missing barge board they are extending the original building by 100mm is unbelievable, and could of been rectified with a consultation surrounding the matter instead of a rejection, therefore costing the applicant time and money, and tax payers money to put through yet another application. I've seen your other comments and it's quite clear you side heavily with the planners, you'll find most in this comment section disagree, you can clearly see from the hundreds of hours of videos uploaded by RC they are good people and don't deserve to be treated like this. My suggestion would be that if you are not going to show support, then not to comment.
@craiglowe44 not about siding with planners or 100mm more. There are laws in place. Really its about democracy and environment and needs both national and local and following the local plan. RC have found a money spinner with this content.
@@jcoul1sc Oh so it's not about the environment, it's about the "money spinner" 🤣🤣 I'm not going down this road of back and forward with you, you'll never stop. You're almost as pathetic as them planners, ciao 🤣
not sure the consultant's advice that its risky to go for appeal in case the appeal inspector doesn't like something makes much sense... if the inspector didn't like something you would address that thing (which it sounds like you're having to do anyway) so i cant see how it sets a refusal precedent that the Council would then keep relying on.... the enforcement issue isn't great, as it will just make the planning department quite anti you guys... can you get a Certificate of Lawful Development for the cabin? (or is it allowed under legislation other than planning?)
The main risk of with any appeal is that if they raised an issue with the buildings suitability for conversion due to structural issue then that is something that would compromise any chance of a class q approval.
I think a lot of viewers are having the same problem with their own councillors. Unless you have endless of money and local MP support you are just hinting your head against the barn wall….The key was when they told you we don’t like Q submission’s. I wish you both the very best in this political game of cat (council) and mouse (you) game they like to play.
Maybe the planners are wasting time going through all your channel, so they can have a good snoop at your work, particularly the screw head positions, or at the least they are learning the trades from you two!
I think the planning department will have a day where they watch the whole of your journey on your farm and cabin build and try and use some of that against you. Because that’s what kind of Di#ks they are. Really hope something pans out for you. Maybe you could arrange a open day for all your subscribers and we pay a £1 entrance fee and sign a partition supporting you . And invite the Planning department to attend. That would be brilliant 😂😂😂😂
Tim the Irish in you, red hair comes from somewhere, says you must be of travellers stock. Therefore you can live your caravan while your application goes on plus you are given extra weight to your application being of this persuasion
Take it higher. Councils are just mini government. Most of them are corrupt, especially in planning,take it from me. Go to your mp, make them work for the money..
