You may not need to pay as close attention to your pylon placement, but now you need to pay attention to your gateway placement. @18:13 that central gateway is actually blocked, and any unit built by it would pop out inside the enclosure.
Suggestions: 1 Could use a brood war skin for this challenge 2 I’m sure your viewers wouldn’t mind some games with double robo in this series I love how you are just playing off of saving the warp gate research cost and taking a slightly later gas and earlier expansions as a result. It’s such a small thing but it’s going to disrupt the meta for sure! You rock Thermy!
"You know how Protoss have all this fancy super-tech? Well, what if actually, they didn't?" xD I love imagining that this is something like the army of a traditionalist branch of the Daelaam, who never accepted the Conclave's dissolution and just want to to go back to the good old days.
I was thinking something similar. A couple protoss oracles got together and figured "to warp is to sin" and banned such technology. Maybe warping-in outside of a pylon's range is shown to be toxic somehow?
I think that's an interesting idea for a patch that should be considered seriously by the balance council! The essence of all strategy is tradeoffs, gaining one advantage at the cost of another and balancing the sum of them all, and the best strategy games achieve a perfect balance of tension between all the choices you have to make. Having something that's just all upside for very little cost becomes something you don't even think about, you just get it every time, and it takes away from the balancing act that makes strategy games fun! Warpgate today is something every Protoss always gets, just a question of when, and once they have it there's literally no point in keeping them as Gateways, they're just worse in every way. Making players have to consider a real tradeoff between Warpgates and Gateways would be a great addition to the game, and I like your idea of making Gateways able to build more units over time via shorter build times vs Warpgates building them on-demand but resulting in fewer units overall in the same timespan due to long cooldowns between warp-ins. I agree with you, lots of cool strategies would emerge as Protoss players have to decide if they want some units now or more units later!
This is a fun challenge idea! I saw a game of yours on the second channel that gives me an idea; you played triple Forge and chronoboosted your upgrades out. Since you're going heavy into Gateway units, not buying Warp Gate, and missing some of the upgrades like Blink, that seems like extra gas that could get spent on an early 1/1/1 you could combine with some pretty strong Chargelot timings that hit earlier than anyone expects.
I hope the strategies you explore in this series involve more ~2:1:1 ratios of gates to higher-tech production. Because of the warpgate mechanic, so much protoss meta revolves around having 10+ gates before adding a second robo and/or stargate (except for dedicated pushes or rushes). There's like an undeclared rule that after the first two or three units come out of a stargate that it can't be used again unless it goes to a lategame skytoss switch.
I really super enjoyed this episode. Maybe because of the amount of Broodwars I've watched, but also because so many of your builds don't really focus on economy. But in this build, it's sort of the early economy that is the point, without making it a macro grind. We'll see how it holds up when people don't try to aggress you early.
One thing I have done with success is a 1 Nexus, gas-less, four gate zealot rush with 6-8 zealots. I usually just rally them to the enemy's base after the initial attack, and keep producing non-stop. I haven't always won, but it can work, even against Terrans.
I’m guessing the gates are proxied. I get this a lot as Zerg in P1. I’ve spotted the usual areas and I’ve been able to hold with a natural (no or low drones) by rushing roaches. Key is to spot the proxied gates so that as soon as the pool is done I get the roach warren.
@@danielcripe25 doesn't a drone scout see it coming? i feel like if i see that many gates and no gas i go straight to roaches and/or spines. i'm playing all 3 races atm and surprisingly my toss is the best so maybe i'll try this toss cheese. but terran can just keep repairing the depots while the marines shoot behind them
Again, I will never say its full proof, but it really catches people off guard. Getting 6 zealots across the map chronoboosting and all is faster than roaches. If the initial attack fails the roaches will come out and thwart any further success, and I have made gates off to the side, like my third base out of overlord scout paths, because you're right, if the player is prepared for it, then it doesnt work as well. Terrains have a greater success chance at healing the depots, but what I have found is that continuous pressure just keeps the scvs from mining, and the opponent distracted long enough to start expanding, while also preventing the terrain's expansion. So if the rush against a terrain fails, and you arent able to cut down a depot, I default into a more 'normal' game if I havent lost too much. But breaking down a depot is totally possible because zealots are so tanky, streaming them in nonstop can work, and if you do its miserable for the terrain, and fun for the protoss! Against a terrain its more of just a fun silly thing to do, that sometimes works @@damnplaylist
The economy advantage you get from not researching Warp Gate could give you the opportunity to hide a proxy a Nexus on the enemy's side for an even bigger economy advantage while having an additional Nexus for Chrono Boosting more units out. But what I really want to see is fast Dark Shrine and proxy Gateways for DT rush.
The one advantage of warpless gates is that you can queue units. I think the instant switch from building one unit to building the next more than compensates for the longer build time.
I think a buff to Protoss would be warpgate levels, almost like weapon upgrades. So initial warp gate research with cyber core. Warpgate level 2 at twilight council; reduces cool down by something like 5% and removes slow warp ins, and MAYBE a level 3 at either fleet becon or robotics bay, all units can be warped in, with the 5% cool down reduction applied to all warp ins; robo and Stargate aubject to slow warp-ins where applicable Its impactful, but not necessarily OP.
This might be the most ridiculous episode yet, absolutely epic strategy. How could you apply this philosophy to Terran and Zerg? Not built an orbital or reactor? Skip a queen?
technically there are no stalkers in broodwar :P i like the idea of using broodwar units (+ the stalker), primarily or exclusively. it really does keep the focus on the gateway units, but it gives you detection, drops, and a late game tech option in case the opponent plays super defensively
rules: if not zerg, after opening (defending rushes) you must only build your opponents units if zerg dont worry just murder so protoss will be the easiest
I feel it's better to keep it 1 series at a time. The it's like the hero's journey, you accept the challenge, overcome, hit a wall, overcome again, reach the goal (GM), then see there is another goal (rank 1), the come out as a changed man. And then the next series. With 3 at the same time, you completely lose the story-telling side.
Hello UThemal. Im the type of guy who played SC2 a long time ago and was never good tbf. But love watching it! So i got a question: Lets assume you play Zerg vs w/e, you have a banling nest and you're going into mid/late game. Wouldn't it be smart to burrow like 3 banes in advance around the enemies next expansions, so you can insta pop them without giving your enemy the chance to cancel it. Or is it not cost effective enough. I consider like 6 banes for 2 base denies pretty good, since you don`t even have to be active on the map for it. But i can't remember someone doing it. It's common to do it for armies (which often have detection). Thanks in advance for answering this. Love your videos! Keep them coming!
I think buffing protoss in ways that is mechanically challenging is a good way to ensure they get stronger at pro play but keeping them balanced on the ladder.
I love your patch idea and I have been thinking the same for a long time. I always wondered why Blizz allowed you to turn a Warpgate back into a Gateway when there was no benefit to it.
Dude I just watched a SC1 PvP game where the enemy toss just came into his base as the start and built a pylon and 2 gateways... you could try that since you don't need warpgate
against higher level zergs you could try to do that build that Mana did against Zerg, where he faked a Zealot all-in and followed that up with a double robo immortal push ..
the last game hold on the third base is.. almost disgusting. I'm 4.8k and i would probably gg out when i saw the first wave of ling knowing how committed he would be
i would give the option to use multiple persons to control one player. someone could micro, someone could mine, someone could scout, etc. like 4 persons v 4 persons in an 1v1 game
Even though the Bongcloud series is what brought you fame and fortune (I hope), it was always my least favorite. Handicapping yourself is just giving the other player an advantage. But in that series at least you got different games because everything was built in unusual places. In this series the only thing you are accomplishing is having a smaller army due to longer production cycles.
I wonder if old school forge FE would be a decent start with this against protoss and zerg. You can skip gas completely, relying on cannons and batteries to defend early then going for zealot/archon against zerg for example!
