I really love how Cease's videos starts on a topic, the middle is either existentional crisis, political stuff or psychology tests, and ends on the topic of the beggining like if nothing weird happened
that’s because his excursions into pseudoscience and pseudo intellectualism are unnecessary and amount to nothing in the end. it’s just him trying to cover up base, conventional thinking with “confirmed ideas” and “party line” distractions.
@Mister Magician, if you don’t like his videos then why are you here? Also “excursions into pseudoscience and pseudo intellectualism” is just blatantly wrong. Pseudoscience is a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method. Ceaves research and evidence are based on scienctific fact and therefore are not pseudoscience. In addition, his science and research is a key component of his videos that not only make them fun and interesting but also are essential to proving his point.
In the early game, each fight is a way to get new and stronger weapons. In the late game, each fight is a way to trash the cool stuff you spent a lot of effort trying to get.
It depends, fighting silver/golden lynels give you powerful weapons and things to sell, if you know where weapons respawn, then Is not a big deal if the weapon is gone, if you don't care about losing your weapon as long as you get resourses, then its worth
This is exactly how I felt. When the late game came, I found myself splitting my inventory into weapons I'm fine with using on enemies, and cool weapons that I was saving for god knows what.
@@e-tean-son4146 Except constantly recollecting my weapons when they respawn is WORK, I want to play. If we could eliminate the loss of losing a weapon, there'd be no reason to even keep that loss, it would be pointless.
@@BaldorfBreakdowns Then your point is entirely different to the point of the person I was responding to. Their opinion is "it's not much work, so it's fine", mine is "it shouldn't be work" (and for me, is), yours seems to be "It shouldn't be work, and for me is not."
You were actually the first person I thought of when this video was published, lol. I enjoyed all of the insights and different perspectives that you both gave.
well I would imagine you do, he seems to want to emulate you know. I see no thinking in your work though, and there has been little in any of ceave’s work recently. I do see two men with childish views, adolescent smugness, and the desire to be taken seriously as an adult without having to actually be one. I also see ceave doing his hardest to deny any and all Personal Responsibility for his life. such is paganism just before it inevitably collapses. you remind me of a quote though, from Venerable Fulton Sheen: “The modern man is no longer a unity, but a confused bundle of complexes and nerves. He is so dissociated, so alienated from himself that he sees himself less as a personality than as a battlefield where a civil war rages between a thousand and one conflicting loyalties. There is no single overall purpose in his life. His soul is comparable to a menagerie in which a number of beasts, each seeking its own prey, turn one upon the other. Or he may be likened to a radio, that is tuned in to several stations; instead of getting any one clearly, it receives only an annoying static.” That is not the full quote, if I find it I will make a new reply with it too.
It is from “Peace Of Soul,” one of the best books ever written. Here’s the full thing: “ The modern man is no longer a unity, but a confused bundle of complexes and nerves. He is so dissociated, so alienated from himself that he sees himself less as a personality than as a battlefield where a civil war rages between a thousand and one conflicting loyalties. There is no single overall purpose in his life. His soul is comparable to a menagerie in which a number of beasts, each seeking its own prey, turn one upon the other. Or he may be likened to a radio, that is tuned in to several stations; instead of getting any one clearly, it receives only an annoying static. If the frustrated soul is educated, it has a smattering of uncorrected bits of information with no unifying philosophy. Then the frustrated soul may say to itself: "I sometimes think there are two of me a living soul and a Ph. D." Such a man projects his own mental confusion to the outside world and concludes that, since he knows no truth, nobody can know it. His own skepticism (which he universalizes into a philosophy of life) throws him back more and more upon those powers lurking in the dark, dank caverns of his unconsciousness. He changes his philosophy as he changes his clothes. On Monday, he lays down the tracks of materialism; on Tuesday, he reads a best seller, pulls up the old tracks, and lays the new tracks of an idealist; on Wednesday, his new roadway is Communistic; on Thursday, the new rails of Liberalism are laid; on Friday, he-hears a broadcast and decides to travel on Freudian tracks: on Saturday, he takes a long drink to forget his railroading and, on Sunday, ponders why people are so foolish as to go to Church. Each day he has a new idol, each week a new mood. His authority is public opinion: when that shifts, his frustrated soul shifts with it.”
he is like the “atheists” who spend every waking money trying to prove how “atheist” they are and how much they have changed (never for the better) to conform with the world.
I remember back in the day when this channel was dedicated to mario maker. Good times Oh how we all have grown. The quality of this channel is through the roof! Good job ceave.
I agree, but I understand why he stopped doing those. What is there left to do? It's almost impossible by now to come up with a new and creative contraption that nobody knows.
@@ichamsakkar4249 agreed, though I do wish he did a few MM videos once and a while, it was weird that he hyped up MM2 and it's new items so much and then never did any videos showing them off but of course I'm happy with whatever he puts out, whatever he wants to do is what he should do
Good video, although a personal note: My problem is I always manage to lose my weapons on enemies I think are very strong, only to meet another strong enemy that I can't defeat and I don't know how to get a good weapon to defeat it. The game became a bit of a grind for weapons and frustration at not being able to defeat enemies very well. So I never finished. Great game otherwise.
Thats why Hyrule castle exists. Its filled with easy to kill enemies with strong weapons that, unlike chests, respawn every blood moon. Thats a feature just as fundemental as heading to korok forest for the master sword.
@@Deeznuts-gd6lm Why would I think to go to the last area of the game without good weapons to get better ones? I never even thought of that and what I did after around 2 hours of gametime, I avoided all enemies, because why even bother. Enemies are, for me in botw, completely useless to kill
One of my favorite things about dark souls (bare with me) is the "self expression" of choosing "my" weapon. As a gamer, this self expression is one of my main joys, and while not universal, I know there are others like me. Breath of the wild falls into an awkward position of offering me a wide range of weapons that seems to fulfill this joy, and then taking them away from me. It's the same reason I don't like to play the "nuzlocke" challenge in pokemon. Thus, if all the cool unique weapons were simply stepping stones to upgrading the same set everyone else has, it would ruin the game for me. So, how's this as an iteration/exploration on your idea of weapon quests/crafting materials: when a weapon breaks, you can choose to either scrap it for crafting materials, or USE crafting materials to repair + upgrade it. That way, in order to upgrade a weapon you would need to use it till it broke so it could be repaired, but you'd also need to use a wide range of other weapons till they broke and could be scrapped for materials!
Lack of self-expression was the big problem for me also: couldn't fight the way I wanted to. But .. I was playing on emu, so I just used a mod to disable durability altogether. It's been great, no regrets.
If a Lynel sword were durable enough to kill a Lynel, I would have had zero problem at all. I think they just made them too fragile. They should feel like Rupies in OOT. at first you need them, eventually your wallet is always full.
I mean, technically all weapons are durable enough to kill a lynel if you know how and are patient enough, but besides that, lynel bows tend to be pretty dang durable and are one of the best ways to kill lynels and all lynels drop them
Your comparison with rupees is better then the solutions I have seen in all of these video's, simple yet effective. Maybe leaving weapons for permanent use is the way to go, but you can only activate the ability with the monster specific essence or something. So the weapon itself becomes a normal standard weapon a.k.a. the wallet, and the essence are the rupees.
I agree that some weapons should have more durability, but I disagree with the wallet. I personally don’t see any problem with the rupees, if I got that many rupees, that is how many rupees I have. It isn’t overpowered, or anything like that. Also, I find it weird that you find the rupee limit to be like 90000 too high, but getting 9999 of every material is perfectly fine.
I wouldnt mind using the Fairy Fountains to make weapons more durable or to get special verisons of that weapon by turning in a buch of materials for it. Just annoying having to keep stock of Good Weapons and all the "trash" weapons I will use in normal fights.
I wouldnt mind using the Fairy Fountains to make weapons more durable or to get special verisons of that weapon by turning in a buch of materials for it. Just annoying having to keep stock of Good Weapons and all the "trash" weapons I will use in normal fights.
Oh my god I die a little inside every time someone acts like an amount gained is the same as an amount lost .if some one has the opportunity to gain either 3000$ or the chance to gain 4000 the risk calculation is are you willing to lose out on 3000$ for an 80% too gain 1000 your putting high risk for low gains. The logic for the gain side is still fairly reasonable, but the logic for the loss side is for the average person is crazy there for many people an unexpected loss of 3000 dollars could very well be two months rent and food it isn’t simply a loss of 3000$ it could lead to the loss of someone’s place of living or car! If 3000 dollars puts someone at an ultimatum then the risk that 3,000 vs 10,000 becomes irrelevant all that matters is a guaranteed loss or the chance at safety. These numbers don’t exist in a vacuum when you’re playing with numbers large enough to have immediate ramifications on someone’s life min maxing the odds takes second chair too survival.
Thank you for putting some common sense into this mess that that argument in the video was. Allow me to add one thing: The expected long-term gains and losses that he so proudly presents "On average option A will turn out better than option B bla bla bla" are completely meaningless, if get to pick only once. If you pick only once, the perspective of "which option has more impact IF it actually hits" is way more important and impactful
Yes, thank you!! I love Ceave's videos and rarely disagree with the points he makes, but this particular argument just seemed really off. It's not irrational to prefer reliable gains to gambling, and while the loss situation is trickier, there are very valid reasons that can motivate peoples' choice (as you point out).
Love Ceave's solution! My thought was to greatly increase the durability, reduce the drop rate, and have breakage be tied to attack timing: badly timed attacks would do more damage to your weapon than well timed ones. Or maybe the same amount of damage taken, but less given. Killing high-level enemies would give longer lasting weapons, at the cost of several weaker ones. A trade-off rather than a loss, and no longer a complete loss.
Silver enemies where always bullshit, you killed off tons of high level weapons for a mid tier PoS that would die half way through a combat with some mid level enemies.
Especially in master mode. Although, I did raid the castle immediately, and lost almost all of my weapons immediately, but kept pushing forward. That was my best pro-gamer move ever. Period.
it's okay! the corruption won't last forever and for a lot of people this can teach important lessons that will help break that corruption down! i hope you feel better though 🥺
To avoid losing everything to the Lynel when killing, shoot the face and when you attack it while on it’s back, the weapon you use there doesn’t actually lose durability, knowing this made Lynel hunting pretty fun for me
I mean if you dont wanna lose durability on your weapons including your bow since you still have to shoot it I think its best to take advantage of your creativity than to simply cheese it. Bring a metal box to the lynel fight and kill it with magnesis!, That would be one way to kill the lynel without losing durability in a non cheese way. Of course there's nothing wrong with just killing it the way you did.Its honestly pretty fun to cheese a boss in a video game
that’s because his diversions have nothing to do with the topic, he just wants to talk about politics (seemingly his new religion) now, but has a video game oriented fan base. If these were his first videos no one would have watched him.
@@JPX7NGD you do realize he is also analyzing why he changed his mind from the first video right? The "diversions" are relevant because he's comparing his prior and current thinking
Oh this is far worse than that, he is openly trying to use a ideo game to claim the faults of his past aren’t due to him and that Personal Responsibility is evil.
Actually, Ironically, there's a hidden EXP system in BoTW, every time you beat a monster, you gain EXP, and weapons slowly get better. After a certain amount of one monster type has been beaten, (Like 15 blue Bokoblins, for example) You'll stop getting EXP from that monster. There's a cool video all about this here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rWFy8v9snfs.html
@@pokedude583 There are strong arguments to be made for hiding game mechanics. But lets assume for the purpose of this counter argument that it is bad to hide. The game has a number of things that can increase world level. It is effectively impossible to not advance the world. So even if you kill nothing the loot will get better. Though at a slightly slower rate.
@@theloyalwraiths8827 Yes, but the first time player wouldn't know this. They still feel like they're only losing things after a fight. They never feel like they got a reward, even if there is a hidden reward mechanism that makes new weapons better. The experience is shaped by how the player feels, so I would say hiding away reasons for the player to fight is not a great choice.
@@NoGoodNamesToday I would disagree on the basis that you will consistently see all your numbers go up. Once again, even if you only ever use your worse stuff, you will keep progressing easily.
Honestly, the only problem I have with the durability system is that weapons break FAR too quickly. Other than that, I really like it. If BOTW 2 just refines it a bit more, it could be great.
Seriously; THEY Do break FAR too easily & Quickly; To the Point; I'd Be Happier if they had weapons that DIDN'T break in Tears of the Kingdom; Like How Eldin Ring's Weapons are SIGNIFICANTLY Longer-Lasting!!!
I really liked the whole explanation of blaming individuals for systematic problems. It's scarily similar, if not the same thing, as arguments used to defend rapists, such as "she was dressing provocatively." It's a very scary and dirty tactic that I'm very happy you explained so well in this video, Ceave. I love that you don't shy away from complex topics and I hope you keep making content this good.
im really happy a bunch of people will see this who otherwise wouldn't be exposed to this kinda, well written and thought out deconstruction it is so monolithically present in our lives, from the way we respond to a car accident (at least where i live) to the,, er, war on drugs I guess it makes me really happy to see someone spreading positive information
Honestly who makes that argument? I hear people saying she shouldn't drink that late, NOT to defend the rapist, but to warn others to protect themselves better. I have only once or twice in a decade seen people actually try to defend rapists this way. Might just be the difference between where we each travel though. I have regularly seen "men can't get raped" arguments and such. Anyone who blames the victim of rape is disgusting, but to warn my own family and those I care about not to endanger themselves by leaving themselves vulnerable I think is an entirely fair thing for me to do, no?
@@pubcle Yeah it's fair to warn people, that wasn't even brought up. As for blaming rape victims, I've seen it a decent amount. It usually comes from the idea that bad behaviour must have been provoked or that rape is the result of someone being aroused and not the obvious violent power grab it actually is. Hence why the the blame then shifts to the victim.
@@some-one-else I just see the statement "you should travel in groups and be careful of getting drunk, don't make yourself vulnerable" as often being equated to defending these atrocious acts. So I wanted to make a note of that. I have almost never seen that but again, might just be the difference in the circles we travel and the places we visit.
I remember when I first played breath of the wild I would use bombs for everything because I was afraid of losing my cool weapons. I eventually got over it but I still ended up only using low tier weapons throughout my first playthrough.
On the other side of the coin, I only used the cool weapons, and then couldn’t use them. It ruined endgame exploration, because I just went where I knew I could get more cool weapons.
@@sumthinorother9615 But you get more cool weapons throughout the game closer towards the end overall so that exploring older areas is still fresh and you can go to whatever area you want in the game in whatever order without it feeling too strong or weak. It's literally designed that way, as there's systems that increase the tier of enemies and weapons they spawn with as you continue to kill more enemies.
Yeah and theres also a third side of the coin ware th3 fact that the basic abilaty to fight is aconomble can lead to vary interesting situations there is a reason survivql horor is a genra
Being able to repair weapons would gut all of the good that comes out of the system and make it inconvenient. You can fix the champion weapons, but they’re not that strong and you need to do the plotline to get to them. Imagine just blowing up a Lynel immediately and then just repairing its weapons for the rest of the game
@@PlatinumAltaria repairing would give rupees meaning as well, you end up with way too many rupees by the end unless you go to the great fairies to max out armor
I‘ve gained a bit of a gambling addiction myself because I‘ve played Fire Emblem Heroes since it‘s release (the Fire Emblem series has been one of my faves ever) and at one point I got weak and fell into the gacha hell and spent several hundreds of euros on orbs. I‘ve since deleted the app and I‘m trying to avoid all gacha games (including those like Genshin Impact, not just apps). I’m in my mid 20s and it really scared me how little control I had over myself. So I really appreciate that you touch these kinds of topics as well and your recent content has been so amazing and interesting. Love the deep dives and breakdowns of background information concerning these companies
I found that some knowledge of the underlying psychology of those mechanics, or even just simply awareness of their existence already helps a lot to keep oneself from falling for it, also it can be hella interesting. Keeping track of the amount one has spent and setting it into relation to other things that money could've bought can also be a real eye-opener. Hope you can steer clear 🤞
@@patrickj yeah the thing is that it started out with small amounts like 10€ a month or sth... and then it slowly built up and I was like „another 30€? Okay yeah whatever“ so in the end I spent about a hundred a month :( putting this in relation helped a little but for me personally, deleting everything was what made me feel the safest at that point. Thank you a lot for your words
Ceave went on the most massive rant about microtransactions in the pikmin section and I, a fan of ceave and things that aren't microtransactions, wouldn't have it any other way.
"If someone suffers from individual trauma, then blaming a collective group of people is sure as hell not gonna solve their problems either" Oh my gosh yes, as a person who solved my sexual harassment trauma by confronting the individual girl who wronged me, I can say this is true.
@DropkicktheDecepticon It heavily affected my view on love and romance for most of my life, but eventually I found more people that genuinely cared, and I got the confidence to confront her about it. I started out nice and friendly so when I brought it up she realized hop bad she messed up and deeply regretted her actions knowing I would understand her.
I also think that this is a fine line to walk. For me personally in a game loosing everything and being put into a bad situation that you have to figure out how to get out of somehow is tremendously fun. But I could see how that would be a nightmare for some players. One of my friends hated Breath of the Wild because of this system but only found out about 7 hours in how much he hated it. There was not really great a way for Nintendo to telegraph this to potential customers that this might not be for them.
This is why I used to only fight with remote bombs. I feel like if we had bigger weapon storage it would make the combat better because you could fight and break weaker weapons.
I think for the people that are really risk adverse there should be like a Kokiri sword that you keep the whole game is weak and has a short range but is still usable no matter what. That Or pull a Wind waker where the Master Sword is still usable even without its power, but it's just a lot weaker. Going off of base BOTW stats maybe like 10 attack? At that level the only weaker weapons I can think of are all Wooden, so they'd still retain a use as a torch. And since you can't throw the master sword it means that other weak metal weapons still have uses with Magnesis or stuff like that.
@@Pingunito_ Thing is, 20 isn't some kind of magical number where humans just tend to think it's barely too small to be satisfactory. Even if BotW had 100 inventory slots, your brain would just think 100 is the number of good items you COULD have if you kept all of them and would treat it the exact same way you do 20.
Oh my god, I just realized a lot of stuff due to this video. Maybe it's only because I'm like 14, but this really made me realize how different advertisements work in different places around the world.
that's awesome! that you learned a bunch people don't expect others to know everything! especially young folks! and even when you get older it's okay to not know everything too, as long as you're willing to learn
The moment I learned how to overcome loss aversion was the moment that I realized how incredible turn-based JRPG combat systems were. Until then I never used consumables or powerful spells and I’d spend hours grinding to beat a boss with raw power rather than beating the boss in a more fun and clever way with the tools that were already at my disposal
For real. There are many games that have items like Potions, Ethers, Elixirs, or consumables that buff your stats temporarily, but I'd always just prefer to boost my stats permanently and fight a boss rather than immediately fighting it but using a consumable. Which is something that plagues almost all RPG games (and JRPGs).
That works until you get to a boss that you can't beat with good strategy alone and have to painfully grind your stats up against usually chump enemies that just waste your time. Then jrpg turn based combat sucks.
Usage of regular consumables (store-bought or otherwise indefinitely available) is generally just a very basic part of the combat system. However, rare non-restockable (or even worse, unique) consumables are still a different beast - was that boss you used them on really the most clever choice? I don't see how the realization that using items is fun could have helped with this question and thus loss aversion.
Yeah, there have been a few games where I've overcome my fear of using consumable items and have really enjoyed them way more afterwards. The trick for me is convincing myself I'm missing out on part of the experience of the game if I don't use the items more frequently.
@@patrickj Loss aversion is an issue I have. Though I disagree with Ceave and think it falls squarely on my soldiers. This is what I would recommend keeping in mind if it's an issue for you too. Unless you have played the game before you cannot know the perfect time to use it. If I am doing a simple speedrun of DS3 I know to save divine blessings and siegbraus for bosses that are death hotspots for me. On a first time playthrough though that fear is pointless, if you don't know a perfect time, and never use it because of that, you won't be saving it, you are wasting it. Not using something at all is worse than using it at a suboptimal time. I feel that loss aversion is just me fighting my monkey brain. Logically over saving makes no sense. And since I started to think that way it has been easier to avoid.
I actually had no issue with my weapons with weapons during my playthrough, because i knew that I could alway go kill some ennemies again to get them again, I always had enough and the biggest flaw I found in this system was that I had to throw away good weapons just because I had better ones to collect and my inventory was full.
the problem with it is that it highly encourages you to only use one weapon until it's broken because there's no way to repair weapons there's no reason to keep a half broken weapon, or to even switch off it the system seemingly encourages switching between weapons quickly for advantages, but somehow encourages the complete opposite
what you got was ceave going into any form of pseudoscience he could (be it from Darwin, marx, freud, et al or any analogue) to try to not deal with his own problems.
I think it's incredibly rational to make the economical decisions described in the example. I am *prepared* to plan/strategize using the money I already have. If I can handle a $3000, I can probably handle a $4000 loss. The additional $1000 are not worth as much as the first $1000. The same is true when gaining. I can't buy myself anything nice with $0, but I can buy almost anything I want with $3000.
To be clear... you can definitely reach rational conclusions for irrational reasons. And I know firsthand that loss aversion can be easily exploited. I just don't thing this example scenario is purely testing for loss aversion and irrationality.
Avoiding combat WAS an intentional consequence of the system, as the developers have said in interviews. Coming up with clever ways to kill enemies, or simply running away, can be fun too.
Hello, somehow I missed this video when it was uploaded, but checked your channel after your newest one and saw this! I don't think either blaming BotW's system or just the individual is completely correct. I think a long line of how games traditionally handled equipment/consumables have conditioned gamers with a certain mindset that leads them to inherently dislike breaking weapons. I think BotW was a wake-up call because at the beginning I also felt like I wanted to avoid using my "good weapons" because they would break. I eventually realized what was going on. Weapons breaking doesn't matter because there's always more. Always. I can understand keeping one or two of your strongest weapons for notably tougher fights, but those fights will be equally as rewarding. Gamers have been taught long-term that their resources are finite and using them should be considered carefully. I've been one who hoards all the of the items until the end too, but BotW has finally convinced me to abandon that principle. I learned to use and break weapons without discretion, and my experience playing the game has been far more fun and engaging as a result. I think traditional game development philosophy as a whole is the system to blame, BotW is trying to break people away from it, but at the same time everyone is already indoctrinated. I think if more people were able to separate the notion that their weapons are valuable and buy into BotW's philosophy that weapons are disposable in any variety because there's always way more than you need, they would be able to break the old bad habits that have carried on for multitudes of games. BotW's system isn't perfect, but a step in the correct direction. Design philosophy needs to change to stop reinforcing these old habits, then people might be less mad that their shiny sword that there will be 230958390252 more of breaks eventually. The example with pokemon where "the revive goes away permanently" is what drives this home. Yes, that one revive you used is gone. You only had 12. Guess what: There's so many more that you can get so easily, one or two every stretch of the journey and the amount you had/have now will not matter. Using 6 will not matter. Using all of them will make you reconsider your tactics and maybe consider leveling up a little more which... will prevent you from using them constantly. Just use them! Break your weapons in BotW - they do not matter.
I think it's more difficult than that. For example: Dark souls difficulty can discourage people from playing it the same way the breaking of the weapons can make you not enjoy Botw. But this doesn't mean that games like this are "bad", it just means that they are a certain type of game that some enjoy and some don't. Because of this I'd say that the people are responsible for not liking it, but that this isn't a bad thing. You wouldn't judge a person that doesn't like pineapple on pizza for not eating a Pizza Hawaii, would you. But that doesn't mean that the pizza is extremely good.
The point Ceave is making is that weapon durability ended up being counter productive to its intended purpose. The devs likely wanted to encourage free flowing creative combat, but if you're avoiding combat in order to save your favorite weapons you won't experience the intended playstyle as often.
For certain pepole for me and many others it made combat by requireimg instead of me just saying ok this weapon have big number me youse oh me win 5000000000 times
Weapons Breaking in BotW actually function like loot boxes. None of the lead up is fun, till X is about to break pops up... then the anticipation for that big flashy colour and loud noise sets in. You think it is fun and enjoyable... but in reality you enjoy the end state. It is a predatory system because it isn't actually fun, it is making you think it is by giving you excitement and anticipating it despite the fact there is no fun prior to it. Like smoking or drinking, the bitter taste and coughing isn't fun... but man that kick it gives you is exciting. Look at Animal Crossing recently, tools breaking isn't fun in any way shape or form... it is just there and annoying. Because tools just casually break with no flash. The act of breaking is no different, use them and they break.
@@simonjourdan3699 Ive never played Zelda but for minecraft, tools breaking is important because if they didn't you would have unlimited resources. I don't know if this applies to Zelda aswell.
@@ExplosivePine You can already have unlimited resources in minecraft actually. You can make iron golem farms and the worlds are so big that they may as well have no limit on the amount of resources. Tools breaking isn't that important in minecraft because if your stone pic breaks, you can just make another one. It's just annoying after a while honestly
@@user-mq1ng6sj7b My bad for the incorrect wording there but what I meant was that minecraft wouldn't work with having unbreakable tools especially early game. Iron farms and stuff are for late game when needing resources doesn't really matter as much as you bassically make everything using farms.
I think they should make more weapons like the master sword that regenerate, so that you can still experiment with new weapons, but not have a permanent setback.
The loss aversion extended even further for me personally. Not only did I avoid combat due to not wanting to lose weapons, but I also wasnt interested in exploring because my reward was something I would end up losing anyway. My instinctual solution to the loss aversion was to preempt it entirely by avoiding gaining things in the first place so I wouldn't have to lose them
The only thing that really agitated me about breath of the wild was the fact that in hero mode enemies regen health so quickly. Especially early game it's really annoying and basically removes any sort of cautious play.
Yeah, I think hero mode was a bit of a secondary mode that wasn't fully thought out. Going up against gold level enemies only meant that I would burn through every one of my weapons and in vain because they'd just get the health right back. Enthusiasm gone
Master Mode could've cut that mechanic out and it would've been ten times better. I tried so hard to do a 100% Master Mode run, or at least a 120 Shrine run, but the fact that literally every enemy felt like a damage sponge was just unfun.
@@colmm6964 Tip for Master Mode: Get the Ancient Armor set, it raises Guardian and Ancient weapon damage by 80% which can be stacked with Strength 3 which raises the 180% by 30% of that total. Visit all Major Tests of Strength and you gain god-like powers every blood moon as the guardians inside respawn.
I wish i was able to explain as well as you. I think you really nailed the evil ceave example. Had a discussion with my friend about fifa and similar yearly sports games where he argued that the people buying the games are dumbasses and feedimg the problem, while i tried to highlight the fact that there is pretty much a monopoly in these companies hands, that also is pretty addicting because of the gambling aspect. And the only way to solve it is by changing the ways of these companies. Was not able to fully convince him tho because i am bad at arguing hehe. Great job on the video, sorry for rambling random crap
or do the New Vegas way, were once it "breaks" you can still use it but with much lower stats now, and combining 2 broken ones together gives you back one full one again, and really rare weapons that don't have many other weapons of the same type to repair with need a rare but renewable consumable special item to repair them, and that repair item can be used on any weapon if you'd like, and the master sword can slowly passively repair itself like i think it does already, and you can use the material to repair it back to new. I feel like this works way better then what they have now while keeping the intent the same but without frustrating anyone.
The Pokemon example sounds like genuine hoarder behaviour considering like 99% of the items are easily renewable. There's loss aversion and then there's "everything i own is important no matter how much of it i have".
Truueeee, why doesn't it just let me buy PP-UPs for 9800 just like the other vitamins? I have a legit level 100 Linoone in Pokémon Emerald just so I can get all those otherwise unrenewable items in a renewable way (Pickup).
The funny thing about this is it happened to me without even realizing what was going on. I'd just keep getting underwhelmed and exhausted from losing my good stuff that I'd just get tired and put the game down and never come back to it. I couldn't really ever put into words why I was feeling that way.
same, I really enjoyed the early game, and then I got to the middle, did a bunch of stuff, and my entire weapon arsenal became situational items like fire and ice, and then those disappeared and I was left with no good weapons or shield, and then I'm just not sure why I stopped playing the game.
same thing for me, exemple in any JRPG I must have at least 10 times the same item lol. I hate odd numbers. Also I did the same thing like him for the Lynel. I didn't want to lose all my weapons, so I don't fight Lynel lol.
@@gamerskingdom4897 that is true, I found it was sometimes cool to feel like I was building myself up from just what i could find. that said, it got tedious and was detrimental imo
I don't think "loss aversion" is the main issue with BotW's weapons system; I think it's the staleness of the whole thing as a whole. No one likes constantly recycling through reskinned weapons that all do virtually the same thing with counter-intuitive differences on the side (I mean seriously the "boomerang" is just a one-handed weapon with a garbage throwing mechanic). In older zelda games, weapons used to be unlockables; you complete a dungeon or open a chest or whatever, and grab a stronger weapon with a new ability. It's as simple as that. You don't need to constantly worry about killing enemies for new weapons to replace your old ones; you just fight. The weapons system is simply an inconvenience in itself that gets in the way of combat, it's not a real way to "reward" players.
This, along with the fact that the game has almost NO enemy variety, made BotW's combat system considerably less fun. It's sad that one of the most complex combat systems in zelda also ended up being one of the most stale.
@@bralenmurphy1991 : Yeah. I got my hands on the most durable possible weapon and bow, and the Hylian Shield. Then I transfer that value over to all my weapons and do it again whenever they’re low on durability to repair them, never altering the durability of my full-maxed durability templates. Yup, that totally breaks the system. Another proof that it needs revising, if people like me can’t live without doing this.
I never really thought about feeling a loss when a weapon breaks in Breath of the Wild. I didn't like the brittle weapon system, but for the opposite reasons you stated. I simply attached no value to a weapon that I knew would break within a few swings. Whenever I opened a weapon in a chest, it just felt like a disapointment, even worse than opening rupees in Twilight Princess.
I can totally relate to this. I didn’t finish the game because nothing felt worth my time. I spent 20 minutes going through a shrine only to get a sword that, while powerful, I could only use for one battle. So I would use it, lose it, and then be back at square one. It just felt like the time investment required to get anything better then basic weapons was just not worth it. Getting a sword wasn’t a reward, it was a reminder that I could be doing something different and more worthwhile with my time.
You're seem to be getting something wrong here, probably taking it way too literally. Your options don't fit into the framework of the theory's questions - none of them has a possible neutral outcome. Also, even if they would fit, there is no objectively better or worse decision if your options aren't quantifyable (like the amount of money in the example given by Ceave).
@@patrickj damn, bro, it was just a Joke...yknow, poking fun at an old Shakespeare quote? heres another example: "you cannot Shake Hands, with Clenched Fists"-- normally, regarding war-ready countries and the impossibility of peace...but with the right Sense of Humor, you notice that we have made a 'hand shake' out of clenched fists, called the "Fist Bump"... maybe im taking things to Literally, but youre taking them wayyyy too Seriously...
Actions of individuals are the result of a systematic problem, and are thus a symptom. Therefore, they are an equal half of that problem, causing it to persist. That is not a fallacy. For your example, forcing the victim to stop gambling and banning the malicious gambling company are equally valid options. Acting like only one solution in that scenario is possible is misguided. But yeah; breakable weapons in BoTW discourages conservative players from engaging with the game. Maybe just talk about that instead...
I feel like weapon challenges like you suggest kind of throws us back to those “classic progression systems” with skill trees you mentioned earlier, rightfully stating Nintendo wasn’t willing to go for those anymore.
Yeah, but that's the answer. Classic progression systems. Btw, Breath of the Wild is full of that. Korok seeds give inventory space, shrines upgrade your HP and Stamina, you craft permanent armor upgrades at the fairies, etc. Only the weapons are such crap.
@@19Szabolcs91 : Not exactly. Shrines and koroks are a bit of a challenge → reward kind of mechanic. They are a finite set of challenges you can take to get exclusive items you then use as _currency_ to acquire upgrades. The thing is “classic”, hardcore progression systems are built around actions you can repeat indefinitely to farm so-called EXP points which give you upgrades in the form of levels and skill trees. Link doesn’t gain any attack power for playing the game a lot. The EXP system of BotW is actually hidden and only increases the strength of enemies and their weapons. Link can only increase his health or stamina by CHOICE if he does decide to complete shrines. That’s entirely optional and you can play the game for hours without ever increasing Link’s strength because there’s no EXP system for that, no upgrading of Link’s strength unless you really want to invest in that.
I agree. Although I think Ceave's idea for a fix is neat, I think that it would fail quickly in practice. Perhaps weapons having some kind of super-powerful boost just before they break could work, but that'd cause other problems. It's a hard problem to solve.
Honestly, all you need is to have them drop materials when they break, then maybe add a weapon-crafting system and you'd probably fix 90% of the problem. Side-quests should just be universal, not tied to individual weapons.
@@SamWeltzin without any kind of brakes on weapons dropping crafting materials when they break, that might cause players to grind without having fun. Like, chilling out in the first area for 3 hours killing the first enemy, waiting for it to respawn, and killing it again so you can get your weapons to break. Or spending the last several hours of the game grinding to get juuuust enough crafting materials for one more upgrade before fighting Ganon. There's a Game Maker's Toolkit episode about this, I think it's called "How to Protect Players From Themselves" or something. For a lot of players (but definitely not all!), grinding isn't fun, but it's something they feel like they *have* to be able to experience the rest of the game. There's probably a way to have a crafting system based on broken weapons that also avoids turning into a grind, but I'm not creative enough to think of it.
@@NaveTVG I guess it could very well trade one problem for another, true. Clearly the solution is to fix our dumb, flawed, squishy human brains. brb, donning labcoat and becoming mad scientist.
The weapons giving something when they break is a really good idea, be it rupees, or an item required to upgrade some armours (like the barbarian armour) or something else. That would be way better than just freeing a spot in the inventory.
Except for the fact that the reward would probably be useless at best and a reason to grind a ton at worst. As was mentioned in the video, they explicitly want to avoid having meta game reasons to play the game
A super simple fix for this is to not have the weapon just violently explode and disintegrate when it's durability is used up. Most games that feature durability for weapons and tools have a method of repairing and maintaining them, not just going "oh well, my weapon's broke. Guess I have to throw it away and get a new one." Breath of the Wild not having a way to fix broken weapons made it feel like the mechanic was half-baked. If anything, it's more thematically fitting for the setting of Breath of the Wild that Link, a traveling swordsman and master of the wilderness has to be skilled at keeping his weapons in shape because out in the wild is where they'll be subjected to all the kinds of elements that would realistically make his weapons get rusty and brittle and likely to actually shatter.
The implicit premise here is that weapons in BotW are worth repairing when I think they simply aren’t. It’s not like weapons are rare or so functionally distinct that losing one compromises your ability to continue playing. It’s more like Halo: you pick up a weapon, use it until you no longer can (it breaks or you run out of ammo), pick up a different one and keep going. BotW isn’t an RPG. Combat is supposed to be fast and dynamic. Changing weapons on the fly is a part of that.
BotW had a nice idea with weapon durability. But wasting 3 weapons on a tanky enemy to get the worth of 2 back, nope. Sure, tanky enemies are a nice mix and they should exist to provide more challenge, but losing good brittle weapons to beating just 2 silver bokoblins doesn't feel nice. However I feel like this problem could be mostly fixed by having more weaker enemies (and maybe not having such large increases in health with the color differences) but in turn, making the weapons less brittle. Smacking these enemies is fun and beating tanky enemies wouldn't feel like such a loss. You would try more different combat styles like spinning your swords because you are less worried about durability. However, this suggestion does not entirely fix the problem and could create other problems. BotW's world is supposed to feel partly empty, not having mobs infested absolutely every place. Some challenge would be gone this way and it doesn't feel right to add a difficulty slider to a zelda game, which would otherwise fit nicely. The game was partly, but not entirely designed for brittle weapons making it more of an opinion if it is right to have it in the game. It can't be fixed by getting rid of it or some other addition, since it would need a bigger rework to fit in better.
@@Ayre223 : I only do that in Sword Trials, to be honest with y’all, it’s indeed too precious of an item otherwise, why would I *LOSE* it when I can *KEEP* it in my *INVENTORY* forever? hehe
@@spectralaria8648 Yeah Ceave used some good arguments with loss aversion and how we suck at using consumables and end up hoarding them, but to completely absolve the individual of any responsibility is not a good idea. Pikmins have absolutely no authority on what they can do, so obviously they can't bear the responsibility either. However, individual people in a society do have free will and make decisions. If not then we'd live in a dictatorship where only the government has full authority and responsibility (Like in Pikmin).
@@mitigamespro8757 I feel like the middle ground is best. The example I used elsewhere was soy sauce in a recipe in a diner. The soy sauce is a core ingredient, removing it fundamentally changes the dish. A person who dislikes soy sauce is not to blame for disliking the dish. But that doesn't mean the soy sauce can just be removed. The dish wouldn't work then, and even if it was still good, it would be a completely different dish.
@@mitigamespro8757 but individual responsibility can only take you so far, societal problems need societal solutions, if a group of people finds it harder to get jobs that needs to be addressed collectively not individually
@@teejayburger2136 sure but it depends on what the solution actually is. And if those societal problems are actually societal. Because when they're not, then most of the time the solutions they propose are very harmful to the society.
I feel like it's a sign of just how much thought and insight go into these game design/philosophy videos that I haven't owned Nintendo console since the SNES (and literally played a contemporary Nintendo game on someone else's like three times in the same period), and just knowing *about* those franchises by media osmosis is enough to let me engage with and appreciate the points you're making (and want to recommend them to everyone I know who plays videogames in any context).
The problem for me, and the reason that I still support breaking weapons, is that it’s the only thing that got between me and endless pointless grinding of easy encounters. Bashing the same easy camp of bokoblins in an experience point using version Breath of the Wild would give the illusion of progress while falling into the same loss aversion trap as was discussed at the beginning of the video: it’s more comfortable to murder the same boko camp for the 80th time and get 15 experience points than to fight an actually difficult encounter where I gain 120 experience points if I win, but also might actually lose the encounter. The only reason I ever actually learned to fight Guardians and Lionels was because that was the only way I could actually get stronger gear. If I could have gotten stronger by fighting weaker enemies, even if only very slowly, I probably would have systematically exhausted that method of progression before tackling any difficult challenges, and this likely would have led to me losing interest in the game. And further, the fact that I don’t get any progression from fighting bokoblins aside from maybe picking up some new weapons is also the only reason I was actually able to enjoy the questing and adventuring without spending an insane amount of time killing every enemy I encountered and turning even the simplest task into a 3 hour chore. It is for this reason that I wish more games would find ways to move away from permanent progression systems, because as long as those systems exist the most natural path forward for a lot of people will be to take the safest path to maximum level, even if that path is significantly slower and more boring than simply playing the game as it was intended. And this sense of guaranteed permanent progression is what leads to players feeling like they can’t really enjoy the game until they’ve reached a point of maximum power, only to find that because they overleveled so much the end result of their slow boring grind is an unengaging gameplay experience where nothing can actually challenge the max level player. In summary, for all the people who can’t properly enjoy the game without an incentive to actually play the content, there also are people who can’t enjoy the game unless they are given an incentive to stop playing the same content, and ideally Nintendo needs to find a system which can somehow support both kinds of players.
