Please Stop Giving Students Zeros in the Grade Book | Kathleen Jasper 

very spcific LOL!!!

You telling the truth. Educators wanna pass kids along.Thats it. It's not to prepare them for the world because we hurt their feelings

Amen and I'm a teacher agreeing with you

Both students should get a re-do. The 50%er didn’t learn the concepts, so they need to learn them to move on. The whole point of assignments is for practice and to make sure the students learned the concepts correctly.

​@@theo-toussainthoward49As you use broken English, you lecture about student getting passed along. Obviously these grades aren't a precursor for success. It's not that serious. Anyone can be taught anything with the right teacher. And I say that with a PhD. The job is to teach not penalize for everything. ❤

That's not what happened here, watch the video. ❤

Categories definitely help. However, when you look at that number line, a zero is a K, not an F. The whole half of the grading scale is failing. So right away, the game is rigged and not in the students’ favor. I’m glad you try not to fail kids. If they do nothing, a 50 is still an F. I’m proposing a number line that is more fair. I also know every school/district has its own rules.

Yes a 50 is an F. You can’t pass with a 50. This video is about challenging our traditional ways of grading that hurt students. But I also realize not everyone will agree.

@@KathleenJasperEdD The problem is with students picking and choosing the assignments they will try hard on. Doing the easy assignments-not doing writing assignments, let’s say. Playing the game and passing. They don’t want to do tests, they just take a 50. They should get 0s on those assignments.

​@Pelican Cove Beach I agree. All this does is teach students to do as little work as possible to pass. Playing numbers games and picking and choosing what assignments they want to do. It's a terrible way to prepare children for the real world. I really hate this "participation trophy" mentality of giving kids half credit for doing zero work. It doesn't matter that "50% and 0% are still both failing grades". A grade of 50 implies that you still actually did something when you didn't do anything. It's quite literally a lie, and as far as I'm concerned very detrimental to the educational development of children. If a child is having problems at home where they can't turn in assignments, then the school faculty needs to get involved and reach out to the parents. Parent/teacher conferences need to be held, and if the parents are not willing to cooperate then maybe social services needs to get involved. But just giving the students 50% so they can move them along is basically passing the buck, and literally setting them up for failure.

Students have always been the same. In the real world humans slack.

@@HolisticManifesting yeah, it's called jobless.

Thank you for watching and considering this in your practice. Thanks for being here :)

Glad it was helpful!

My pleasure, thanks for watching.

Glad you enjoyed it! ~Yiana Team Member at Kathleen Jasper LLC

The NTI code sounds like an effective way to motivate students and encourage them to turn in their work. It's great that it helps students and parents stay on top of their assignments. Keeping everyone informed and engaged is key to academic success! 👍 ~Yiana Team Member at Kathleen Jasper LLC

Glad you agree and thanks for watching.

Thanks for watching 😊

Life does happen. We need to teach kids that too. Also, we need to motivate not always be so quick to punish them. I punished too. I was an assistant principal. I made tons of mistakes. Looking back, motivation always worked better than punishments

It's called the real world, which is what we are preparing students for. This lady Kathleen thinks we are preparing students for kindergarten. You think your landlord will start rent at 50%? How laughable.

Thanks for watching.

Yes! The "why" is so important. Thank you so much for watching and for your comments.

Who are you referring to as a fool? I’d hate for you to be my daughter’s teacher.

Thank you for your comment. People are flipping out. In fact, the woman who posted the video that I referenced turned off comments. For many people, it's easier to say, "You do nothing, you get a zero." It's simple and easy to understand. Evaluating some of these old practices in education makes people uncomfortable. However, most of the people losing it over this discussion are not educators. Thanks again for watching and taking the time to comment.

@@KathleenJasperEdD All facts!

Satisfactory and unsatisfactory are typically used for behavior, so using an S or a U would be appropriate for grading behaviors like turning things in on time, coming to class on time, following directions. Usually, on the report card there is a place for the S or the U and then an explanation as to why you gave the student an S or a U. However, just an S or a U for an assignment is not enough to tell you or the student what he or she needs to work on. Therefore, I would use some sort of scoring for assignments. Thank you so much for being a part of my community. I really appreciate your watching and commenting on my videos.

Completely agree with you. Grade the standards. Find another way to grade behavior.

Preparing them for what? Most children do the same thing their parents did and they don't leave their hometown. Most people are average with average jobs. ❤

@@HolisticManifesting Sorry, I guess I'm failing to see your point. Does any of what you said make anyone less deserving of being properly prepared for life? There can be no question that the quality of our children's education has been on a steady decline for decades.

True

Grades won't change that, work ethic is cultural. ❤

Did you watch the video? Give them an F (50%).

You can do 1 of 2 things: make a 50 the lowest no matter what, or you can make the questions worth 5pts, so students cannot make less than 50%. Thanks for watching :)

Thank David. It is a controversial approach as you can see in the comments. But effective teachers try to avoid simply failing students. I am happy you found this helpful. Thanks for watching and commenting. Congrats on your certification.

Hi Sharon, for the student who scored a 50, I would turn that test into a formative, reteach, and retest. Surely the student who tries and fails needs supports and scaffolds. For the student who only shows up 2 days a semester, I would fail that student, unless the student somehow turns in the work. Remember, a 50 is an F. It is failing. So for the student who worked and got a 50, I would work with that student and get him or her up. Also, we’re grading mastery of standards NOT attendance. We shouldn’t be grading behavior. If my students are scoring a 50 and they are trying, I do my best to see what I need to do to help that student get the support he or she needs.

@@KathleenJasperEdD Excellent response!

This is the issue I have with this. If a student knows they will get a 50 for nothing then they know they don’t have to try…..there are tons of stories where students skip out on finals to take the 50 because they will still pass, its bull

@@bryanmassey6320Many schools don’t even make them take the final if they’ve already proven they learned the info throughout the semester. They look at the final as a last chance for those who need to pull up their grade. I see both sides to this, but think everyone should take a final. Anyone can memorize something for a weekly test, but can they remember it for the final? That’s what colleges care about.

Yes. It’s still an F. Make 50 the bottom. It’s only fair. The zero is a K not an F. So consider the 50 a zero. I know it’s difficult to think that way. Also, you probably need to adjust what’s happening for that student. Can you tell me what grade and why this student isn’t turning in work? Is there a way to get to the bottom of that? I have some tips for you :) What grade and what’s the situation?

@@KathleenJasperEdD Dr Jasper, It’s grade 10 and 11. I took over the class since I joined the school a month late. I would appreciate if you can share top tips please. Thank you.

Thank you for watching and commenting. 😊

Omg this comment hit me right in the gut. I COMPLETELY understand and have been there. I will do a video on time management. One thing I’ll tell you right now is you don’t have to assign a TON of work. Remember, really good engagement in the classroom and some independent practice for the students is fine. The more you assign, the more you need to grade. Remember, focus on the standards. All this other crazy stuff can wait. Cut yourself, students, and parents a break. They’re not going to fire you for slowing down and only assigning very important things (there’s a teacher shortage after all). Focus on instruction. My next video will be one on time just for you. You can do this. Keep going. And share this video and the article in the comments with your fellows. It will help you and your students. 💜

@@KathleenJasperEdD Thank you so much. I only see my students every other day or less with our weird rotating Friday schedule, but I will focus on what you said. I did share this video with my fellow new teachers and found your classroom management video helpful. I found you when I was looking for interviewing tips this summer. I had already taken all my Praxis exams at that point, but I share your videos with my teacher friends who still need to take theirs. Thank you again.

Agreed! Thanks for watching.

Sometimes you have to prioritize what’s best for you. And if you’re ok with a C, then that’s great. Cs get degrees. No one will ever ask you in an interview what your gpa in college was. They just look at whether you got the degree. Thanks for watching.

Hi Dennis. Keep trying. In my experience, when I student show initiative, teachers are usually receptive. However, if the teacher doesn't respond, there isn't much you can do.

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching 🙂 ~Yiana Team Member at Kathleen Jasper LLC

My physics teacher in high school gave a "1" instead of a "0" for late work.

This is one example of how issuing zeros to students can be detrimental to the practice of teaching. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience.

Yes! Exactly. I contemplated taking this video down because of all the “that’s not how life works” comments. I’m happy to see a different perspective in your response. Thanks for watching!

Soooo.... THAT quarter, all grades cumulative with a zero in the mix, they get a 55. That's one quarter of the year. That's a lot of motivation to do better for the next quarter. Say they get a 55, a 75, a 75, and an 85 -- they finish the year with a 73, a nice average C, which represents the work they did that year. Many kids are average, and that's ok. Consistent low grades show where the student meets the benchmark. Stop moving the benchmark, our math and literacy scores are plummeting. I'll go the extra mile-- allow us to flunk a child and hold them back, especially in elementary. Then not only the child, but the parent learns to pony up effort, and it spares society HS seniors who can barely read. Parents do not 'parent' these days, and we teachers can't do it for them. You know what happens if you sign the wrong side of the check? You don't get the money. Follow the rules -- and we need to do this BEFORE high school. Your theory completely ignores kids who literally do nothing, then pile tons of half-hearted make-up work on the teacher at the end of the quarter. No. I do not agree, though I understand your compassion. Kids need to fail. If I continually pay the minimums on my credit cards, I will end up in a world of hurt supported by predatory lenders. That's like getting 50s for showing up.. they just feed me along a path of mediocrity at best, and kill any hope of hard self-discipline, leading to flourishing. Maybe we should learn math in 5th grade the hard way to protect against this. You are full of love my friend. It's not really you that is the problem, it's Admin who won't let us hold kids back a grade when they can't. Do. The. Work.

That’s really infuriating and an example of how NOT to do things.

Even if a student does nothing all school year and receives 50 for grades, they still fail with a 50 cumulative average.

​@@sqrtofteaching that does not help them. Grace is no problem because that's part of life but when students don't accept that grace sadly they don't get the 50. They going to go to college with that mindset and it backfire hard. If you make up the bed lie in it. If you refuse to eat after I provide food go famished.

@@theo-toussainthoward49 Thank you for your input. I'm glad to hear that you've found a system that works for your classroom. I don't think students who are failing with 50s across the board are going to college either.

If a teacher gives a zero for a student writing on the wrong side of the paper, I can see dealing with a vindictive teacher. If a kid has 14 Bs and 1 zero, I’d check into the reason why that student got a zero. It would seem like an abnormal circumstance. If you have a student not turning in any work at all, and it’s consistent, then I’d give a zero.

Minimum Grading does not reward students; it simply eliminates 50 degrees of failure. Fifty percent is still an F, and an F is an F is an F. Minimum Grading is proportionate grading. A student moving from an F to a D has the same distance to cover as a student moving from a B to an A. Think of Minimum Grading as 0-4 grade points with each number representing a decile--50-100. The 100pt. scale is skewed.

I see that a lot too! Well put :)

A 60 isn’t passing. A 60 is a D, which equals 1 on the 4 point GPA scale. You cannot graduate with a 1.0. You need at least a C (2.0) average. This video is about challenging our traditional ways of grading by making 50 the bottom. 50 is an F-failing.

@@KathleenJasperEdD in NC you can graduate with a D average in high school.

If you have a 4.0 GPA and get a D in a class you can still graduate. We need to be trying to set our kids up for success when they leave our rooms and for the real world. Getting 50% for nothing is not going to happen in the real world.

A 60 is passing (1.0) in Michigan.

She probably took down the video because of the comments people make about this subject. Just scroll down a little and you'll see how unpopular this approach is, especially among non-educators. But I think this is very important, and I am thrilled you are using it in professional development. And you are right, we should not be grading behavior. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. Have a great day!

You didn't comprehend. The scale is mathematically off. It's skewed, we've just gotten used to it. And no, being late and pushing projects back does not get you fired unless they just don't like you. ❤

Awesome. Thanks for watching 😊

The argument is not about consequences for lazy behavior. The argument centers around the fact that the American grading scale is lopsided. For example, 0-59 is an F. More than half of the grading scale is designated for F's, which is a poor design. Students only have 10 pints for Ds, 10 points for C, 10 points for Bs and 10 points for As. So when you give a student a 0, you are making it very difficult for students to redeem themselves because the student has to climb 60 points just to get a D, and they have to do that through averages not added points. I go over the math in the video. This starts at 4:18, if you're interested in looking at that. Paying your bills and getting an F on an assignment is comparing apples with oranges. They are not the same thing. I am not saying students should not have consequences for their behaviors, good or bad. I am saying that in order to compensate for the fact that more than half of the grading scale is designated to getting an F, effective teachers take that into account when assigning grades. Give the student an F for not doing the work. A 50 is still an F. But giving the student a 50 rather than a 0 helps to correct the lopsidedness of the grading scale. The argument is about math, not behavior.

​@@KathleenJasperEdD But the whole point of the grading scale is to put a numerical value on your understanding of the material. It's supposed to be lopsided because if you understand only 59% of the material or less, then you don't understand the material adaquetly enough to move on. A zero is not a punishment, it's a reflection of the amount of effort that was put in on the students part (the ones that didn't turn in anything at all anyways). What you're proposing here is for teachers to essentially lie and pretend that students have at least half of the understanding of the assignment. You said to another commenter that if a student gets 3 out of 10 questions wrong on a quiz, they should still be given 50% even though they have demonstrated that they understand less than 50% of the material. It's one thing to try and be fair and cut the kids slack when appropriate, it's another to give them fake grades in order to pass them along. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with what you're saying here. I agree there needs to be education reform, I don't agree that giving kids credit for work they didn't do is the way to do it.

@@KathleenJasperEdD Thank you kindly. Sadly the math doesn't fully support your claim. this is presented wrong for starters. It interpretation is even if a student does not give effort give them something. That's a main reason why this is invalid. Being a math teacher it's always about partial credit points of what they can demonstrate. I am always amazed that even the weakest student can demonstrate a skill. Grace within reason is needed for them. Its foolish to allow students to turn in work the last few days of the grading period. Had this would have a better presentation of give zeros only no effort given and give grace within reason I would be sold. If you like we can discuss this further so you can understand a math teacher perspective

​@SensoryTheater07 in most countries its 51%

​@SensoryTheater07 it's not about credit, it's about a bad scale. It's heavily skewed. If you work on a PhD, and have to gather stats, you'll see that no research allows that much of a skew. It's very lopsided. So don't give grades for free, but don't keep using a system that doesn't give fair grades. And let's be honest, it's not making American kids any smarter. The math is bad. ❤

You don't teach. ❤

Correct, its not in any scope and sequence.@@HolisticManifesting

I agree!

Being “docked” is not the same as receiving a zero. Were you paid for the day you were late? Or did your boss give you zero pay?

Being late and not turning in assignments at all is 2 different things. No one is going to be able to not show up for work and still get 50% of their pay, if they did then no one would work at all.

No, it is not unfair to the top performers because if a student gets a 90, they will receive that grade and the grading scale is not overly skewed in that area of grades (A, B, and C) but it is highly skewed and rigged agiant students when it comes to grades of F and below so a score of 50 minumum assures that some justice is served to that part of the scale. Speaking of the real world, doctors and judges more often than not do offer flexibity and options when you fall short.

if we cannot agree on this, we cannot call this an education system. Stop trying to make the education system into a credit mill.