This was great! Thankyou for taking the time to explain everything, a lot of other warhammer content just skips over and assumes you know everything already! Also as a returning player starting with necrons the necron chat was great 😂
I do think the guy who's directly In charge of balancing shouldn't be entering GT's. Its not like it can be argued the experience is giving him an insight to get the balancing right because look at deathwatch being left to rot.
If you want to know more about how GW works behind the scenes and why alot of decisions are made I would suggest Jordan Sorcery and The Painting Phase. They both interview a ton of people who worked GW in different positions and explain alot of things like finecast, who buys GW products, the hobby trumpet. Things like that.
I'm VERY interested in an expanded conversation about WYSIWYG. I think it's only a reasonable demand if you have mixed datasheets in your list. it should be 100% standard competitive 40k practice to supply a printed list to your opponent with all wargear, statlines, and costs. And therefore WYSIWYG only matters if you've got identical models on the table and are running them with different wargear from eachother on your list. if every squad of Inceptors has bolters on your list and you've got 3 plasma inceptors and 3 bolter inceptors it shouldn't be a big deal. If you've got 2 squads with bolters and one squad with plasma and you're only running bolter inceptors on the table then That is where I think some kind of reflection on the table is important.
WYSIWYG is just a marine rule. When Tau lost their cyclic ion blasters in their new codex my first thought was "wait their weapons are supposed to look different"
@@TakaRai7yeah, I play Necrons and it took a good bit to figure out what my guns are and that's only because I had to actively pay attention during assembly. There is no way I'm taking the time to figure out Eldar, Drukari or Tau guns, let alone the Tyranid stuff. What I see is an unfamiliar mess of gun shaped objects so I'm perfectly fine getting whatever is on that piece of paper.
Not gunna lie, if all the Pheonix Lords that are no longer in production, but last made in both metal and finecast, get removed from the game, I think I'll have an aneurism from how hard I shit myself
When I asked Josh at the Manchester GT if my 5 C’Tan list would become illegal he just laughed. It’s not illegal but everything in my army went up except the wraiths. I think he picked the stuff he knew was stupid
Famously, Warhammer Fantasy Battles was selling worse than their paint line when they killed the game. Lord of the Rings 100% allowed GW to make attempts to keep WHFB afloat as long as they did. And it bugs me that some of the grognards who never got over that reality won't at least give AoS its props for actually being profitable. As for the "squatting" of models, outside of those few official Warhammer events you talked about, virtually no tournament organizer is going to tell you that you can't use your Sequitors as Liberators or whatever. EDIT: On the balance sheet issue, it is actually the difference between the Main Studio vs Specialist Studio (formerly Forge World). War Cry and Kill Team are Main Studio games so along with 40k and AoS, so all of those models go on the same balance sheet. Horus Heresy and The Old World are their own balance sheet, and I'm pretty sure that's where Necromunda, Blood Bowl, the epic scale games, and Underworlds fall now. So those models are all on a different balance sheet. This is incredibly common (and stupid) in very large companies, and is used to allow upper management to make decisions on discontinuing product lines/services/etc that aren't producing to target levels. This split is entirely a business decision.
For Squatting: most of the models getting squatted out of AoS that aren't entire armies can be proxied as units within the game anyway. Sequitors can move to being used as Liberators. For Beastmen and Bonesplitterz, many people are actually recommending their players use them as an entire other army, like using Beastmen for S2D Chaos Warriors and stuff. A friend is turning his Bonesplitterz into "Orkaneth Deeporks" and running them as Idoneth Deepkin in the edition and it's incredible.
What am l suppose to "proxy" my 20 evocators as, or mounted evocators, or my astrei l ordered for christmas, but got in february. Plus l already have 10 liberators from 1st ed, l have my doubts SCE are going to run 20 or 30 . Plus any proxy requires the opponent to say yes and the store owner , at whose store you play, to say yes too.
Fine show, good sirs! Made for an excellent listen on the trip to the grocer and back. It’ll be interesting to see how people pick your mind with the questions in upcoming episodes.
Afaik the "Separate armies for separate games" has to do with the way GW gives budgets for departments supposedly. They track sales independently so 40k units fund 40k development etc. and for whatever reason they've decided that's the best way to run things.
On one hand it makes sure you're not hampering your winners to subsidized dying games and then killing both, but it also means stuff that needs just a bit more love might fail because of a bad year. It's not a clear cut decision since both approaches have their merits
Apparently the whole reason armies are only available in one game system, or being taken from one game system and put in another is literally the different studios within GW squabbling over who gets what army and not wanting to share.
Honestly warcry having stuff exiled after roughly 18 months from a starter set has made me very hesitant. It means that despite playing Nightlords for several editions, i have zero desire to buy the new Killteam unit no matter how busted they are. Its a CSM box with a kill team specific add on sprue. *Best* case scenario in my mind is it reamins legal (by virtue of being in production) for the rest of this and next edition, *maybe* 5 years tops. I'm a multiple golden demon winner who likes to play, but sometimes only paints a model or two a month to a best painted tournament standard. Its just not worth it for me to participate in the hobby anymore. Spending 100 hours on 10 marines isnt unreasonable for me, but ill never do it again for the rest of my life. I had a Horns of Hashut team that i never even got around to, bc Ive been working through Underworlds Stormcast to go along the Questors. And now I know those are all models that are for sure not going to even be legal by next summer. Between this and Adepticon moving there will be models ive LITERALLY never even gotten to play with once between release and squatting
So AOS demons are kind of phased out of the game in a different way. AOS demon factions are about 80% mortals which are not cross compatible, they are also made to be generally better rules wise than just the demons.
I do find it amusing that there were numerous asides to make things clearer to the audience, and none of said asides clarified what the hell "Squat-ed" means. So if you aren't familiar with not-space dwarves I imagine that was confusing.
Old World stuff absolutely does not have the classic names. There are no savage orcs named in the entire setting - only a warpaint upgrade. The model once called goblin spear chukka is now goblin bolt thrower. It's nice to see that they get it
@pkswarroom that's alright boss. I think it's just about credit where it's due and they did fix that stuff. Also, goblin gaming haven't got any old world on clearance. You had me excited there. They've got a bizarre mix of 5, 10, 15 and 20% discounts on stuff and have sold out of a bunch of it too. Anyway. Great cloud-yelling. Think it's a shame the AOS folks aren't more pro-proxying. Nobody looking at an old liberator is gonna be confused if you tell them it's a liberator. It's got the hammer and shield and same base size and everything. Same goes for a secutor. It's just a liberator in a dress.
@@chitzkoi They absolutely had a load of 30% - Tomb Kings and Bretorians - I got an email about it a week or two ago and ALMOST pulled the trigger on a box. Perhaps a last stock sell through, or limited time sale. I think AOS is quite pro-proxy - I think units like Liberators and similar are going to be predominantly played as Counts-As - which will prove GW's point that doing the Primaris route and giving them better rules and a different sheet and keeping the old stuff around will sell more models lol. This of course is only if Liberators are actually useful. Intercessors in 40k have largely been useless for 2+ editions now on the table top. It's the units with no new army or comparison that I feel sorry for - where do the Beastmen go now, except to a different game.
@pkswarroom disappointed to have missed the deals! Tomb Kings will get me eventually. They're overstocked on regiment boxes but that makes sense cos the starter box is so generous. Not sure they'll ever sell out skeleton regiments when the launch box is staying on sale. "You can play it in the other game" is definitely a line that makes sense in their internal world, rather than ours. There's such panic about warcry getting killed off, which is solely the result of their refusal to communicate about it. If we hark back to the old "firstborn are going nowhere - you'll still have tactical squads and devastators!!" line from the pre Leviathan press cycle, it looked like they'd be able to do more on that front. But they've slipped again - that, or the silence means warcry is not long for this world. Shame, cos I want some iron golems but I'm skint.
Character models being removed is better just becouse you can still use the model as a generic leader in game. IE Zagstruk will be my leader in stormboyz
The Primaris release had the question answered how long Firstborn would last, 3 editions of play. We have had that info within 3-6 months of Primaris release. Getting rid of things need to remove models when new sculpts RELEASE if they will be swapping out IMO. Kinda tired of the 3-5 year before new models release. Not saying GW should ice the entire SM release in one go, but just make the rules "this marine datasheet regardless of firstborn/primaris models used" and the sculpts themselves will sell the models if thats the player's thing and time will phase models out as well, plus introduce a budget way for new players to enter
Nah. If I say everything in my army has a Claw, there is no reason to be a dick about it and request me to build and paint more models, or magnetise infantry. The game is expensive enough as it is.
Pretty sure beastmen will be back as part of Slaves to Darkness as Elite units and Monster Units, or reimagining them with more than just Gor (Goat and Cow based)
To me the 'balance sheet' idea being a reason for rules makes a lot of sense. People often quote the first paragraph of the 'about us' page on the investor relations site to make the argument that GW are a model company not a gaming company. If you read further down it goes into detail about games systems, rules and 'lore'. GW are VERY aware of rules and stories being a selling multiplier. So to me it makes sense to keep models within their box of individual games systems
I was kinda salty all my old 3rd ed marines got legends'd out but honestly I've had those models for 20+ years so we had a good time. And boy I guess I really can't complain after all those Stormcast got squatted and those were from like 5 years ago!
I had my WS army , or rather collected it to have 2500pts , for 3 years. Painting took a long time , and l dod not like it. I managed to get a full 2000 army 3 months before the end of 9th. At first l was worried , but after seeing terminators and scouts in the index, l thought , no way GW is going to remove an entire chapter and way to play without any replacment. Boy oh boy was l wrong. My no longer army , and now a collection consists of 2 bike khans, 2 bike stormseers, 1 bike chaplain , 4 squads of regular bikes with attached attack bike, 2 veteran biker squads , 20 sniper scouts (l bought 10 when the index came out last w40k models l bought), 6 landspeeders, 2x6 las plas tacticals with two razorbacks, one unit of techmarine with servitors and one squad of 5 melee scouts. Out of the whole collection , after 3 years of saving and painting , l have 2 legal models (razorbacks) , tacticals but l don't have enough bolter ones to make one 10 man squad and maybe the chaplain could be proxied as a primaris chaplain. In AoS my army is a SCE, which to make it more fun, l bought in to a lot after my WS got legend. The last AoS model l bought was Astreia , which was suppose to come for christmas, but l got her in end February. If l played necromunda or war cry, l would expect those games to be dead or my gang to be removed.
For people curious about the math, a 5+ FNP is equivalent to +50% wounds (e.g. 4 wounds with a 5+ FNP takes the same average amount of damage as 6 wounds without a FNP, though multidamage/multiwound with FNP obviously changes things too). a 4+ FNP is equivalent to +100% wounds (e.g. 4 wounds with a 4+ FNP is roughly equivalent to 8 wounds without a FNP). And the removing models from AOS article was very unclear. There were both things that were eventually being moved to legends (beasts of chaos, bonespitters, 2nd wave Stormcast) and things that were no longer sold because they were getting new kits (1st wave Stormcast and most of the Skaven) but they just dumped them all into the same big list so it just confused everyone as to what was truly going and what was getting updates.
Thankfully I play with pretty chill people, I'm still using my old termagants and hormagaunts and they're still using their old command squads etc. So we get around a lot of refreshes by more or less ignoring them unless we either really want the new model or the base sizes changed dramatically we'll just reach a consensus if something has changed too much to upset the game eg avatar of khaine/biovores etc. The aos changes is the first time any of us have lost an entire army. I lost a few stormcast models and my Wurgog prophet :,( but one of us had a whole beasts of chaos army. He is content to convert to square bases for the old world but none of us play that. So as a group it weirdly leaves us with either we buy old world armies or they buy a new aos army. Win win for GW lol and in reality, it'll probably be both.
