Plumbata 2 - Bigger, Better and thrown every way! 

Tod, that was truly a super cool episode. Pure experimental archaeology. Can't wait to get these Plumbatae babies here, so I can do some "nasty and evil" things with them!

“Oh, dear me. That’s tragic that is” I think that’s the most British sentence I’ve ever heard.

I see your camera was promoted from velites to principes, nice.

10:00 I'm a bit late to the party, but I will try to explain why the dart technique throws were not as far. In this case it's not about biomechanics, but center of mass. The Plumbata is very heavy at the front end, which means that the center of mass is somewhere near the front end. If you throw it holding it at the back end, you effectively increase your leverage on the center of mass, enabling you to throw it further. If you throw it like a dart, the center of mass is roughly in your hand, resulting in reduced leverage.

am I the only one who is totally amazed by the quality of the intro? It's just so harmonic to see the crafting actions become the logo, I'm getting greatly satisfied by that.

There was a plumbata revival in the late 70s. Somewhat different purpose though. We called them 'lawn darts' and mostly used them to eliminate unwanted children or drunk guests.

You've gotta love how humble, modest, and objective this guy is. This is how you explore history and truth, rather than simply asserting your own ego. Thank you, Tod.

Perhaps the Romans threw them differently, depending on how close the enemy was to their formations.

Throwing a handful at a time makes alot of sense, with the grouping pretty decent. It’s like a hand-flung mortar shot of flechettes

*front liner takes one in the back* from a few rows back: "oh bloody hell, rubbish throw that one"

"They're off to Jorge Sprave where he is going to do something evil and unpleasant with them, then laugh about it."

Great video Tod! When I was a kid, (maybe 10)I discovered EXACTLY how much damage could be done with these "darts". I tied a 6-foot piece of dental floss to the middle of a dart, the ones with the screw-on metal point and plastic tail. The balance was perfect. I could get it to go very fast. My experiment ended when the floss broke and the dart struck and penetrated our above-ground swimming pool. 18ga. steel pool wall and plastic liner. The dart was hanging in the pencil-sized hole it had created, water leaking out. I didn't get to swim for a month.

Oooh.... I liked when he threw three overhand, that tidy triangle formation they landed in!

"Honey you must see this, the blacksmith is throwing stuff in his yard again"

"Overhand, straight at people's faces - great stuff." Spoken like a preacher.

A six month long crack binge will get you a hoodie like that too 0.o

“Overhand, underhand, Roman’ing free Tod of Tod’s workshop, throwing is he”

Armoured camera, someone's learned their lesson :D

Really glad you were able to test this out, Tod. I had planned on doing a whole series about 9 years ago about the plumbata/martiobarbuli, including building and testing like you have done here, but life got in the way and I never got around to it. I am so glad that someone was able to take up the banner :) A few bits of commentary from an old veteran of the subject: I think the thing to keep in mind when discussing plumbata/martiobarbuli is that they were designed to really allow the standard legionaries of the Late Roman army to "take the place of archers" as Vegetius says, as an "in a pinch" backup, or a cheap alternative due to the economics of the time. Rome's forces during Late Antiquity (especially in the Western Empire, in its waning days) show that there was an attempt to cut corners, to keep expenditure low. These financial troubles became especially evident during the fall of the Western Empire, as well as in the East following the events of the ultimately detrimental Renovatio Imperii of Justinian, and especially when Maurice failed to pay his soldiers (which led to the revolt which toppled him). Each soldier carried several of these plumbata behind his shield in case a ranged attack was needed when no archers were available (or to supplement such units). It was a cheap, easy way to standardize what was once a diverse set of troops and equipment. Obviously, this weapon was not quite as good as having a cohort of archers around, but it at least allowed for a general to know what he had on hand when he had to muster something from the smattering of forces available to him in the world of the Late Roman military (a more reactionary, rather than a proactive force as compared to the early Empire). It also allowed for some additional and interesting tactical flexibility. I would also note that I think that it is unlikely that any of the string or sling methods would be used, as most of the tactics of the time suggest that the infantry used mostly rigid or shield-wall type formations. Tossing them in this way would not allow the soldiers to have the room to throw these weapons safely, and would probably cause a lot of friendly fire (soldiers were by and large not subject to the same quality training that their early imperial predecessors saw, if the sources are to be believed). Cavalry, although becoming more dominant in the East during Late Antiquity, did not appear to have as much of a use for the plumbata, nor were cavalry as dominant in the West (apart from some special auxiliaries); it was mostly an infantry weapon. I would therefore suggest that although a moderately greater range could be achieved with some of these more outlandish methods, the overhand "flick" method or throwing it overhand like a javelin, would probably be the most useful and accurate way to deploy these weapons in the field. Lastly, as commentary regarding their deadliness to a unit, I would recall that many later Byzantine military manuals describe that ranged troops not really as deadly units in their own right (such as English longbowmen), but more as harassment and deterrents on the field of battle. Indeed, John Haldon even goes as far as saying most Late Antique and Early Medieval Roman/Byzantine generals by and large dismissed the usefulness of archer units, since they are very rarely reported in battle accounts and feature much less prominently in the manuals. Most bows of the Late Antique (and even the Early-High Medieval period particularly where the Byzantines were concerned) were just not that powerful or possessed a very significant range, but could present a threat to most lightly armored units (which would have amounted to most soldiers of an army of the time). In this sense, the martiobarbuli could have been there to simply deter enemy units from charging, for fear of the little barbs finding gaps in the shield wall and slicing into a soldier's exposed flesh or through a tunic. Armor being what it was in Late Antiquity, not many units, especially those of the roving barbarian hordes, would have been armed in much more than a shield and some simple padded armor or chainmail at best. And a cloud of a hundred martiobarbuli would certainly find a gap somewhere if they were tossed en masse. A horde of barbarians kept at bay for a few minutes at 30 feet is better than having them right in your face. And maybe just enough time for your Scholai to come in and smash them. P.S. One other thing to consider is the amount of the lead (I am assuming you used the archaeological findings as a basis?) and the angle at which the arrow is thrown. Getting additional weight, and the momentum from gravity by tossing it at a higher angle might give it a little more punch than is apparent here.

7:59 Just imagine the guy who is squarely in the centre of the 3-plumbata cluster, just missed on all sides.

“i’ve extended the shaft length” Seen the ads for that.

Imagine being a neighbor and wandering over one day to say hello and Tod is in the back whipping war darts around and talking to himself

Hi Tod. Are you aware of the illustration of two types of plumbatae in 'De Rebus Bellicis'? The author also gives a fairly good description of how they looked and were held. Also Polybius described a short dart thrown with a sling.

"Whoever out there knows about bio mechanics, explain that!" Best line of the video ^^ You could put another peg on the other side of the stick. So you could have 4 different settings.

Tod: turns on camera holding a bundle of plumbata Camera: *anxiety noises*

Imaginary girlfriend "What are you watching on RU-vid honey?" Me "A British guy throwing sharp sticks."

"These are about flesh, they are not about armor" Well, I am pretty sure that if you got Joerg to throw one of these you could trespass a door and the armor of a guy standing behind it....

Best thing about your channel is how open to criticism and questions brought up by your viewers. Love it

TOD The Builder CAN HE BUILD IT? TOD The Builder YES HE CAN!

“A Fistful of Plumbata”, the spaghetti western they never made.

"Be ye legionnaire, or be ye Tod?" - Roman drill Instructors, probably.

From a castle wall, even old grannies would be deadly with them.

For times when 2 hoodies are too warm, but one is too cold, Tod is wearing approximately one and a half :D

Great film ideas.. 'A fistful of Plumbata', and 'For a few Plumbata more ' !

Man I can just imagine an entire army trowing them as in groups and the damage it would cause to their enemies

I’ve been watching these kind of videos for a couple years now, just discovered you, you’re my new favourite. I’m imagining a hundred guys with staff slings, loaded with five darts. After each throw an assistant loads the next volley. With that much in the air, the enemy would either be shut down, or would have to run through it. Scary!

Could they? Would they? With a string? Could they? Would they? Throw the thing? Would they throw them with a stick? Would they throw them three darts thick? I do not know how they would kill. I do not know, Sam. Please hold still! *plumbata release*

That camera-eye view of the plumbata zooming in is pretty terrifying even from behind a screen. The morale-sapping effect of those must have been impressive.

I noticed that the light from the sun changed by the end of the video. Thank you Todd for putting in the time on this video!

Honestly feel like you might be onto something with the three at once overhand. When the enemy are closing in, not a lot of time to throw 3x, not a lot of space in the formation, it gets a lot of darts downfield in a hurry. Seems like that could really disrupt an enemy formation at a that critical last few seconds.

Tod rocking the homeless, mad genius look... ;-)

I see you have added a camera shield, live and learn.

As a kid back in the 70s my mates and I used to make and throw "Dutch Arrows" using the string wrapped around the shaft method. Great fun.

Just found your channel. Your willingness to experiment and potentially be wrong is refreshing and great to watch. Subscribing for sure. Lots of info, with none of the unnecessary rambling. Keep up the great videos!!!

"Straight in people's faces, great stuff." Love it.

"Absolutely/conclusively, we cannot know if they threw it underhand or overhand" Great attitude for those studying history. Humility a la Plato is incredibly important when studying what we do not know, yet try our best to learn.

loved the episodeTodd , spend most of my time watching you and scholagadiatoria, my love for history has reawakened and im loving it

It's so obvious you're having such a good time. It's very entertaining to watch.

How to know you'll have a great day: seeing a 25 min vid from Tod on your feed. Nice

Tod's Workshop. One of the few places on RU-vid where the comments are truly worth something.

I'm pretty sure you've picked up on the physics that when you grip further back, you get longer throws. Because of the increased throw radius, and the increased whip it gives. And I think that other comment someone made about these possibly being designed to injure enemy war-horses. makes a lot of sense !

Awesome video!!! The cluster throws were really terrifying to me. I wasn't sure they'd work but the moment i saw them fly and land together I blurted out "OH F@$% that's evil!"

Back in my day we used to call them lawn darts.

Q: How did romans throw those? A: Any way they could

Instantly likeable man that Tod is; unassuming integrity, scientific inquiry of a serious business.

I'm really enjoying learning about stuff with you. Love your work. Please keep posting!!

Plumbata 3: actual javelins

I want to see 'ragged smith's hoodie' as an option in every rpg now! +5 fire resistance +3 charisma, +10 max range on all ranged weapons

Hey man we love learning too! Thats why we are here. I was so happy to see this suggested, I just finished the first one.

During the video, you asked for the opinion of a biomechanist on javelin throwing technique. I used to throw javelin competitively, and I am now a computational biomechanist many years later. I also used to build bows, and so I really enjoy watching your channel. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos. My life, especially during the lockdown, has been richer for it. I rarely comment, but for you, I will. I'll just add the caveat that I have not studied the javelin throw's biomechanics, so I'll limit my comments to what I know firsthand. As a note, someone who has studied the biomechanics of the javelin throw is Jesus Dapena, who works at Indiana University. Without further adieu. Throwing a javelin requires great skill: at the time of release the velocity vector of the javelin, and its main axis, need to closely align. With a well-aligned delivery the javelin will experience lift, similar to an aircraft wing, and allow you to throw further than if you used a ball. The javelin style throws you executed did not display this nice alignment at delivery, and so the aerodynamic forces hurt the throw rather than help it. Don't feel bad about this, I've never seen someone throw a javelin correctly the first time. And the Plumbata is actually really difficult to throw using a javelin style throw (more details to follow). How effective can this technique be when executed by modern athletes? With training, a middle of the road athlete can execute a standing throw of 30m accurately using an Olympic standard javelin (800g for men, 600g for women). The same athlete can add perhaps 20m or more using a run up, so we're at 50m but accuracy has suffered. At the far end the spectrum, an international level athlete can probably throw 50m from standing, and with a full run-up (likely impractical on a battlefield) will be over 80m and accuracy is down substantially. Throwing a javelin so that it has this precise alignment at release is manageable if you can see the javelin tip in your vision when your arm is back prior to the throw. When the javelin is so short that you cannot see the tip beside your head, this challenging technique becomes more difficult because you cannot see any slight misalignments. The Plumbata is short enough to be a real challenge to throw, like a javelin, with a precisely aligned delivery. This would not be impossible. Tom Petranoff, an American javelin world record holder (1983-1984), sells a javelin training implement called the `TurboJav' (www.turbojav.com) that is quite short. I threw it well with practice, but I found it more challenging to keep it aligned throughout the delivery than longer implement. The next part of the Plumbata that would be challenging for a javelin style throw is the grip: a throw is far more effective if you have a ring of material to grip between your thumb and index finger. Maybe ancient Plumbata had some material there. Since we really cannot know what gripping material was on ancient Plumbata, this is not a deal-breaker. The people who used Plumbata professionally had a long history of using javelins. They would have known that the short length of a Plumbata makes it more challenging to throw correctly than a javelin. While nothing is definitively off the table from my observations, the short length of the Plumbata makes me doubt that a javelin-style throwing technique was used to deliver the Plumbata. All that said, I think that javelins and Plumbata would be used best together: lob thousands of Plumbata, and at the same time throw thousands of javelins (or any projectile with a flat trajectory). Protecting effectively against this onslaught requires making a shield wall, and a shield roof at the same time. If discipline, training, or the shields' size are lacking, the defenders end up getting skewered from above or head-on.

Love the tattered clothing, makes me think how excited you are to test out the new ideas right out the workshop.

NOW We are Talking! Great Test Tod, these working definitely way better and also really like methods with String!

Maybe these weren't used in formation. I've always wondered how on earth a sling can be used in tight formation. Since Legionaries were given slings and lead shot. But the Romans often had to defend camps and forts. In these situations, formation matters less and projectiles become more useful.

Joerg Sprave an man with a truly warped mind. I LOVE IT!!! Throwing with the stick is similar to the atlatl.

GoPro: "Not today mate, i upgraded to escape the fate of my brother!"

Alright so, who should we pester to see wether or not they can be thrown from atop a battle donkey ?

"Jörg is gonna play with my Plumbata" Tod

Experimental archeology is part of why I love history so much

The group of 3 in the hand looked lethal af. Imagine a whole unit doing that at once

Scutum where composite constructions of several layers of wood (usually three), glued together with a leather and canvas covering. the best surviving artifact was found in syria and is 105.5cm high, 41cm across, 30cm deep, but only about 5mm thick

Thanks for doing the three at once. I just found your first plumbata video, and that was my number one interest.

that's what i call entertaiment! thank you Tod, for all your work and videos

Pretty cool to see plumbata used with a throwing string and staff sling ngl

Tod,I just wanted you to know how much I enjoy your channel. I'm laid off from work because of COVID and I've been really depressed and miserable lately but watching your channel and being exposed to your enthusiasm has really made a big difference in my life. There's something magical about hearing someone talk about something that they love and are passionate about and in times like these it's really life changing. Don't ever let anyone make you feel like what you do isn't important because i know it means a lot to many people.

This is really profound. This makes exploratory history exciting.

"I'm not a professional warrior." Bless you Todd don't underestimate your expertise. You are however a professional armourer, who are I believe much rarer. Wonderful and factual stuff. Keep the going buddy. 👍

The string is basically a soft atlatl and gives additional leverage arm as long as you can impart enough speed to keep the string taut throughout the throw and release at the appropriate time..

I feel like the difference the cord and sling have in height was much more significant than in distance. Those would be a much more powerful hit coming down.

Ideas are the most valuable thing a group offer👍

Coolest bit of history I have learned in a long while. Thank you so much for the video!!

The string thing? We did this as kids, including the wrap round technique. We called them Dutch arrows. I think it was well known to generations of budding yobbos like me...

The number of times that Todd’s hooded jacket has caught fire? I’ll wager at least 20 times.

Today I learned about a plumbata. Never heard of it in my life, and I've been looking up weapons for 30 years.

Love your stuff, Tod. Every episode you do of this feels like a clip taken straight from The History Channel.

Tod, "This isn't being shot out of a bow..." Jeorge, "Let me show you its features!"

10:10 Yes, it's a leverage thing. The center of mass on the weapons is smack in your hand, as opposed to if you hold them over the fletchlings, the center of mass is further away from you, allowing that center to be accelerated more before you release. It's the same thing with your staff sling.

So very happy I found your channel! Fantastic content. Cheers from Louisiana!

Thank you for making ancient history real ..... and showing how the was really lethal.

Actual hands-on historical weapon archaeology like this is so cool.

Imagine about the front 30 men chucking 3 each of these as they close their formation up and charge. A volley of a hundred plumbata into your boys.

Subscriber, military history geek, adult son of a history teacher. I love researching Roman Military Tech and have never seen or heard of Plumbata before… I want some!!! You are a wonderful artificer and blacksmith. Bravo sir!

Thanks for this fascinating look at an ancient weapon-system.

When I'm playing dungeons & dragons and the DM asks me not to be a murder hobo. This is exactly what I imagine

I would love to see the difference the staff sling makes to that shield test! Quite a bit more power behind it

Reminds me of growing up and playing with yard darts in my grandparents yard during the 70’s. They were weighty and thrown underhanded for good distances towards a target hoop on the ground. Makes me think maybe these were the inspiration for the game.

I had no idea this existe. Thank you for bringing this up.

19:05 Now imagine you're a Frank, Saxon, Lombard or other such lightly armoured warrior marching upon a Roman line and suddenly dozens if not hundreds of these come careening towards you. That's a pretty frightening perspective. Another great video Tod. Always a pleasure to watch these, mate.

I really like the throws that you messed up. You acknowledged that a professional would not have done that and you did the throw over for a more accurate test. Many people don't take that into account and they do bad testing. Good on you!

Another good idea would be to try using a flexible stick for your staff sling like a casting rod

Just came across this channel and I love it!