@@Castersvarog I mean, there's already counter play, but it's more direct and not all Pokemon can learn Aura Sphere or Slash, and it's only 1 of those two screens.
I was literally thinking of Wonder Launcher throughout and was expecting this discussion to extend Aura and Pulse moves. After all, there's enough of a concept to fulfill the loose criteria of Pseudo-Typing: there are mechanics which specifically interact with this property, there are Pokémon themed around this property, there is potential for other Pokémon or mechanics to interact with and use this property. Honestly, the best improvement would be if these in game move properties were marked in some visible way besides move descriptions. Just a little light bulb symbol on light-interactive move descriptions, a sword icon on slashing moves.
@@rairaion2612actually, certain mechanics that work with egg groups could be pretty cool! What if attract was more likely to work on the same egg group?
Slicing, Ball/Bomb, Wind, and more already exist in the game as basically Soundalikes. This is just fleshing some others out. No reason to say that Sound isn't just Ball/Bomb 2.0
Or you could add "projectile" type attacks (it'd mostly be for stuff like physical moves that don't make contact, but still) and then have bulletproof apply to it.
@@AverageEggmonEnthusiastyup, there are actually a few more of these types of categories that classify attacks as different kinds of actions so that they can interact with either abilities or items. Most only exist for the sake of a single ability though which kinda sucks. Some of the other more common ones are punching, biting, dancing, and protecting
@@jamesruth100 Honestly at this point we might as well add Impact Slash and Pierce from other games and D&D. All the ways physical damage may be applied
@@lancemckenzie1074 Maybe Smog and Clear Smog there's also Aroma Veil, Sweet Veil and Stench for abilities I can think of scented normal attacks like Noxious Torque outside of that, maybe some wind and breath moves have scent to them, but they might as well use their main attribute
@@pigeon1923 The five senses are Taste, Touch, Sound, Smell, and Sight. Four of them are shown off in this video, now we just need a Scent subtype lol.
I think Light based attacks should actually be worse in the sun, considering the sun is so bright it makes most other lights unnoticeable (try shining a flashlight outside in noon, the light it emits is hardly if at all noticeable). I think Light should instead be better in Rain (since it's usually darker due to clouds) and when "inside" like a cave or even a building, as the light would be much more noticable and therefore potent
That makes sense, but I think It does still make sense for It to be stronger In sun. In the sun, there's more light to absorb(?) making the attack stronger
I like the idea of Light attacks being better in the rain and not at night, since competitive battles don't use day/night mechanics and you can't control it
To add onto the idea of Harsh sunlight interacting with Light-based moves The moves Morning sun and Moonlight have their effects boosted by 33.3% under Harsh sunlight, going from healing 50% HP to 66.6% HP. On the flip side, their effect is halved under any other weather effect. So logically, Light-based moves would have a 1.3x stronger power/effect under Harsh sunlight, but halved power/effect under Rain/Snow/Sandstorm/etc. Also the Illuminate ability could boost Light-based moves. It'd be more interesting than it being Keen eye 2.0.
@@asierx7047 I was thinking more like how the Sharpness or Iron fist abilities boost the power of a specific sub-category of moves, since Light here isn't a type but a sub-category of moves
@@reginlief1 I mean, yeah, that's kinda the idea. Sunny Day is called Clear Sky in japanese afterall. But yeah, in english the weather is harsh sunlight so that's what I'm referring it as
Omg imagine if default necrozma was a dark type instead of a psychic type, and ultra necrozma was a light type- Dawn wings and Dusk mane necrozma could both be Dark/Light type combos :o
@@lancemckenzie1074 because there are non-flying type wind moves (Blizzard, Icy Wind, Heatwave, Twister, etc). Similar to how there are non-normal type sound moves (like Bug Buzz, Snarl, Grass Whistle, Torch Song, etc).
I think another interesting property that could've been mentioned here and apply is how certain Pokemon are unaffected by Telekinesis, a move that involves lifting Pokemon off the ground, those being Mega Gengar, Diglett, Dugtrio, Sandygast and Palossand. This is an extremely niche interaction, so I'd understand why you wouldn't know about it, but this basically shows an example of specific properties of these Pokemon that are neither a part of their type or ability, but just their designs (All of these Pokemon are directly connected with the ground) having an effect in battle. This could be similar to how a hypothetical Food pseudo type may work, in that it's tied to neither their type or ability, but the Pokemon itself.
The reason why contact exists is to allow certain moves on physical attackers to play around contact effects which are usually extremely detrimental so it’s not really a pseudo type
@@BudewFan_ Except he then said that we should remove the contact distinction because we have the physical and special split, meanwhile certain moves like Earthquake are physical moves without making direct contact. Same with Bullet Seed, Attack Order, Aqua Tail, Dragon Darts, Fling, Drum Beating, etc. There's an entire list of physical moves that don't make direct contact
dividing up contact moves into other subcategories reminds me of how SMT and old Persona used to divide up their physical attacks between like slash, pierce, bash, gun, and so on
Honestly, the game already divides most moves into sub-categories based on method or some other non-typal move property. Making these sub-categories more visible, and introducing more niche interactions specific to these sub-categories could go a long way.
I love that image of how sound would work offensively at 1:47 "Super effective to Ice, resisted by Steel" Because Ice needs more weaknesses and Steel needs more resistances (sarcastic) This is why sound doesn't appeal to me as a type, Ice, Bug and Poison are weak, Steel and Fairy are strong, how exactly would adding the sound type logically address these issues without being completely arbitrary? (same for Light type)
Well it could reasonably go the other way around instead. Sound could be good against steel because when sound bounces off of steel the volume increases, meanwhile ice could resist sound because snow actually dampens sound.
@@nathanblackburn1193 Some bugs don't hear very well, or at all, like fireflies. If I remember katydids hear with their knee joints though. And uh. You have bugs that make a lot of sounds and are defined by it like cicadas... Maybe fairies really like songs and are afraid of loud noises? Makes sense? I've been wondering about what would happen if Poison became super effective against water, due to pollution, but that's disconnected from sound.
@@nathanblackburn1193 you are right, poison and bug should be supereffective against each other like in gen 1 and fairy should lose it's bug resistance so fairy/psychic mons are nerfed as well, same for fighting (idk why beign good at karate makes you resist bugs, poison makes sense, but not bugs). Then i would make poison supereffective against water type (as almost all sea life forms have lethal poison to kill each other). Oh, and if i had to add a type, i wouldn't go for sound, light or anything like that, i would add a type that no one would ever think of: the quantic type, a pokemon type that "breaks" any sort of logic of how our world works. It would be supereffective against all sort of energy related types (electric, fire, psychic) and also steel as it could destabilize it's structure, rock and ice are more chaotic and less organized so it wouldn't be supereffective against them, it would be weak against dark, ghost and bug (as they usually represent chaos and uncertainity) and resist the types already mentioned (electric, fire, psychic and steel), finally things that represent abscence of energy would be the ones that are supereffective against the quantic type, this would include: ice, dark, ghost, and poison. I think this is the only type that could actually balance out the game. I can imagine tachyon, particle and energy based pokemons around this type, and it could also satisfy people who want a sound type as vibrations are related to quantum physics
4:59 This actually kinda reminds me of how games like Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder will split up physical attacks into Bludgeoning, Slashing, and Piercing! Also, for sun and the light type, maybe you could make it so that the 50% boost happens to any move that is light based and/or fire type, so that way it can apply to both without stacking?
Personally I like the dance sub-type, given oricorios ability already copies dance moves, and a number of Pokémon have dance themes, just add a few more dance abilities and you are good. Foot-loose: all dance moves act like rapid spin and remove hazards. Cause your feet are loose. Deadly grace: boosts damage of dance moves.
I was thinking "Okay but there's like 4 offensive dance moves and two of them are grass and another is Volcarona's signature" but like. Aqua Step. Give Aqu Step to more Pokémon. Also yeah there should be more offensive Dance moves; I like the idea of a Dancing Fan item where the user copies the first Dance move a Pokémon uses (including it's own). Stealing Dragon Dances and getting double Quiver Dance sounds like fun imo.
3:19 while that is not a stretch to say I will bring up that there are physical moves that don’t make contact. In particular the move psycho cut is a non contact physical move. There is also Decidueye’s hidden ability long reach which makes it so none of it’s attacks make contact. Contact is more like a requirement for other things than it’s own catergory I would say.
I wish this video had actually gone more into the different existing sub types of moves. Becasue this video makes it sound like there are very few but really there are tons. Ball/bomb, wind, slicing, aura/pulse, biting and more What makes sound so interesting to everyone is mainly how easily it seems to be for turning into a type. But also because it has more properties outside of ability interactions like ignoring substitute and its a cool way to add more complextity onto moves. I would have loved to see more of these already existing properties get more interactions like how this video suggested slicing moves ignoring screens.
@@jmhguylight bulbs are bad electrical cables which have high electrical resistance, so energy is converted to light. And you also have non-electric light generation like fluorescence and phosphorescence.
Sure, almost all contact moves are Physical, but why would Static or Baneful Bunker trigger off Earthquake? If anything, they should make contact Status moves as well (Tail Whip, Lovely Kiss, Quash...) Also, considering the impact/sharp thing, Shell Armor should reduce the damage of sharp moves, not impact. You don't cut through a shell, you smash it with a rock
That whole line of thinking with contact was insanely satisfying even if it didn’t work out. Really fun video. Was trying to find something to watch while eating dinner and this shit slapped top tier content
4:10 my argument, why you shouldn’t is because just because it’s a range attack does not mean it’s special. Not every physical attack using contact attack, take earthquake, for example; and not every special attack is a range attack, I don’t actually think there’s an example of this yet.
An idea I had for a locust pokemon would fit quite nicely into the food type. The pokemon would be similar to wishiwashi as it starts as a single unimpressive locust but its ability would force it to consume any one time use item it is holding immediately or its target's item when using a move like bug bite. After it eats an item it turns into swarming form and becomes multiple locusts with a much more usable stat total
5:26 i’m essentially going to do that in my call of Cthulhu games that I combine with Pokémon. The difference is when you crit, if you crit with something blunt You do maximum damage, if you crit with something sharp, you do maximum damage and then another die of damage.
I have felt for a long time that alongside type and category, moves in Pokémon could also get an additional property could be called "Attribute". It would act as the pseudo-type you talked about and cover thing like sound, biting, punching, wind, ... kind of move. That way it would be easier to identify which move count as which so that we don't have to guess anymore if Sucker Punch is powered up by Iron Fist or not.
The case for Sucker Punch is exclusive to English however simply due to the choice of words the translators chose, they could have went with like Low Blow or Sneak Attack for example, I mean, it's the same gen where Iron Fist became a thing if I recall correctly so they should probably have known it would cause problem The overall point still stands and I agree with it, I just wanted to share how baffled I am at the translators taking liberties with something when they should have known that the liberties they took would result in unnecessary confusion
One thing I noticed about these categories is that they all seem to apply to different senses. Sound to hearing, light to sight, food to taste, and contact to touch. We're just missing small, but there are moves like Sweetscent and Odor Sleuth, and Grass and Poison types in general are applicable to scent. Maybe a new mechanic could involve the five (or more) senses and how they impact a Pokemon's performance in battle.
I really wish we had physical sound moves. Like Drum Beating could have easily been made one. And maybe a ground one called something like Seismic Wave to reference that sound is a form of vibrations and Seismographs measure vibrations in the earth. Make it 70 base power that gains an additional effect based on the terrain or something to make it stand out more
Love how I can be so far disconnected from Pokemon nowadays and still come back here and find it a joy to watch you sling out these super creative and interesting Ideas. Keep up the great work!
I think contact is specifically for rock type moves because those definitely are not some kind of magic, but throwing a rock at someone (which is pretty much most rock moves) implies that no physical body to body contact is made
Absolutely great take! I completely agree, these extra effects and tags on moves make them more interesting than just "make it into a new type". Magnetism could be an interesting pseudo-type, interacting with rock, ground, electric, steal and even ice moves in different ways by affecting accuracy/evasion as if pulling/pushing things around. Super cold magnets is how some hover technology works so ice pokemon using magnet moves can cause them to evade the next ground move. Healing is basically a pseudo-type. There's some mechanics based on weight that potentially is a pseudo-type though the theme is more on par with contact. Screens/barriers are a cool mechanic that could have more added to it and could even interact with light. Light as a mechanic, I don't really like that it would take over sunny day, I like it better that it just interacts with various things, like grass types could charge solar beam faster after a light move the same way it does in sunny day, screens could last longer, status effects from dark moves could end sooner, things like that.
okay but the fact that light sounds just like sound IS what makes it so good. tbh it's the one that i can actually see them adding without much issue while the others feel a bit tacked on the fact taht you could jsut add the category and make some effects and it'd work perfectly makes it great
You say light would be "just sound2", but honestly it has so much potential to differentiating itself enough and be really interesting. Light based moves could be made less effective on water types, because light refracts on water and now suddenly solar beam might not be a good option against water types. Light moves maybe could go through barrier moves because theyre like glass, light goes through. You could have some moves and abilities having a "mirrored" property, so light moves would either have no effect or actually bounce back to the attacker. The theming is there and its really interesting
I've been playing with this gimmick in my Pokémon projects for a WHILE. It adds a ridiculous amount of depth to gameplay and themeing. It's let me do shit like merging Rock and Ground together into Earth seamlessly. Earth is flat out strong against Flying, but some moves are considered "Grounded", and therefore do not affect Flying, which is "Airborne". Moves like Surf and Avalanche are also considered Grounded so they don't affect Airborne Pokémon. I also rebalanced my Shadow type (combination of Dark and Ghost because I hate the Dark type) by removing the Normal and Fighting immunities and replacing it with a Contact immunity (except for Shadow moves). This undoubtedly makes it the strongest type on the chart, but the game is balanced around that fact, my favorite work around being the costly Silph Scope, which is now a held item that lets the holder ignore the immunity. Additionally, I honestly like typed gyms, it's just that I think that they should be more _themed_ around a type but not necessarily limited to that type. For example a Steel type gym could be about magnetism and still use fitting Electric types. This means I can also make gyms themed around Sound moves or Pulse moves-Normal and Water primarily, but still featuring plenty of other types. I even toyed with Dragon moves as a sub-category for Fairy, but that ended up meaning having "Magic" carry too many things. Instead I settled for a general buff to Dragon moves across the board, but they confuse the user if they aren't part Dragon.
Whenever the concept of Sound as a pokemon type comes up, I always rally behind Weapon or Gear type pokemon. You have the Cubone line, farfetched line, Honedge line, Grookey line, Dreepy line, Octillary, Blastoise, Genesect, Decidueye, etc. Theres so many Pokemon, moves, and items that revolve around the theme of a pokemon having a armament or equipment by default that I always kinda hoped to see a typing around it.
I was literally thinking about this-ish the other day. Like "hey if normal type is the defacto for sound themed moves and pokemon, then it seems like fairy has become the default for food themed, because of pokemon like milcery, dashbund, swirling, etc.
I always interpeted a moves' official type as describing the "medium" of the attack (water, martial prowess, draconic magic, etc.) while subcategories describe its "method" (vibrating, slicing, punching, etc.)
what about space, wind or maybe snow? I mean we have a lot of space based and wind pokemons and moves also we could add something to rayquaza abilities to make it more interesting like you cannot switch the weather and air moves are boosted or get priority or maybe air based pokemon get more speed we can also apply this to the snow whether making them stronger oooor maybe adding them a Chace of filching lowering the target defence or lowering the targets speed.
This video was super cool, and I think your ideas were pretty good! I kinda wanna see sharp become a psuedo-type, it's literally got an ability dedicated to it.
I was going to comment this before you brought it up pretty much straight away - but yeah I've always had the response that sound and other move properties would sooner be move categories than types if they were to be fleshed out
Thank you!!!! I love that sound is a sub type and not a fully fledged one!!! Sub types are such a cool mechanic that should definitely be taken full advantage of
Light as a "Pseudo-type" does make sense. While it does feel close to 'sound' it would allow you to create bonus effects around certain moves. In fact, Solar Blade is a 'light based move' which is physical, and there was a recent "Mighty Cleave" signature rock type move. So it isn't even stuck in the "Special" type category, you just need to add a few moves that use light as a physical weapon. Officially, there are some 'physical' sub-types for moves, like Slicing(boosted by Sharpness ability) or Punching(Iron fist and Punching Glove). So there are some sort of 'Pseudo-types' for physical, just not obvious ones.
I absolutely love these "pseudo-types" how they are because they describe how the moves function in parallel to their elemental properties!! A move can be either dragon- or electric-type but still be functionally similar if they are both sound-based, and that added level of complexity is so fun
Further to the point about Contact and physical moves - in Pokémon Masters, the defensive moves that react to contact in the mainline games just react to Physical moves instead. They didn't even bother to add the contact effect tag to simplify things.
I thought about having light based mechanics when back in gen 4 I designed a fakemon evolution to Sandslash, a steel type with mirror-like scales _(so you could imagine my reaction when 3 generations later Alolan Sandslash suddenly existed)_ Particularly it had an ability which would reflect half the damage of light based moves. So taking only half the damage from stuff like Ice Beam, Mirror Shot, Hyper Beam, etc. and tossing that half back.
you may enjoy looking at Pokemon Reborn's mechanics. they have it so various locations give various extra effects, and thus give some extra support to these pseudo-types. like sound moves being boosted in caves due to echo, and even stuff like the Ice gym using a custom Mirrored field, which has many light based moves cause accuracy drops, and beam attacks (like ice beam or signal beam and others) to actually reflect off the terrain for boosted damage if they miss. real neat stuff.
I theorized a light based move category for a romhack I was working on before. Mostly to give the ability Illuminate something to do. (Boost Light moves by 20%) The special feature was that these moves ignored screens. (Because they pass right through them). Which was kind of hilarious because it made Confuse Ray bypass Safeguard. There was also a surprising number of light based moves, like Psybeam. Couldn't decide if Moonblast was a ball of energy or an energized chunk of moon shot at Pokemon though.
I feel like you’re getting at a kind of “delivery method” set of types, that might fit as an expansion of the physical/special split Physical can be split into slashing, piercing, projectile, etc. Special into Sound, Light, pulse, Food? Etc. then it’s applied to moves only, and Pokémon can specialize in certain delivery methods based on move pools and abilities
Physical noncontact moves are projectiles like Icicle Spear and Rock Throw; there's a lot you can do with that. Also explosion isn't a contact move, but it doesn't feel like a projectile, more like a shockwave. Which makes sense because "damp" would dampen the save
Strong Jaw, Sharpness, and Iron Fist put cettain moves into biting, cutting, and punching categories kind of like sound-based moves, similar to impact and sharp, but narrower.
I still don't get why people want sound type to be a thing... Like, seriously... None of the type advantages or disadvantages would be intuitive, and there are SO MANY sound-based moves that have distinct typing (Overdrive, Alluring Voice, Sparkling Aria, etc) that slapping Sound Type onto them would just kinda ruin their whole niche. Light type ALSO doesn't need to exist, because what would you do with that? Most of the options can already be filled by other types, such as Fairy (goodness and purity), Fire (sunlight and heat), or Electric (light bulbs etc). The ONLY Pokemon that could pull off a Light Type with no other alternative is Ultra Necrozma, who isn't even usable since Z-Moves no longer exist. In my opinion, the only type that could work is COSMIC type: - There's a ton of Pokemon that would make sense thematically (a lot of legendaries have psychic type as a stand-in for "space" or whatever, there's a ton of Pokemon from space like Beehyem, Minior, Solrock, Lunatone, etc). - Tons of moves that could be cosmic type (like comet punch, morning sun, wish, gravity, lunar dance/lunar blessing, cosmic power, etc). - It would open up more room for interesting concepts later on (space Pokemon are cool). - And most importantly it would be able to help balance out the type chart (steel and electric type could be weak as a reference to how solar radiation damages electronics, and a common trope in many alien movies is that human tech is useless against them. Steel type has busted defense, and Electric type is one of the few types in the game with only one weakness). I could go on about the type chart, but this comment is already too long.
But we don't need Cosmic type either, as that role is filled by Rock, Psychic and Fairy at the moment as well + there is the issue you instantly address as well - a lot of Legendaries that make sense thematically, aren't gonna be turned into the Cosmic type anyways, cuz they are already Psychic types + for Solgaleo and Lunala there is the issue that they are box arts as well). For Sound, its not only the moves either. There are a lot of Sound based Pokemon, that are never gonna be turned into Sound types anyways, because they fill a certain niche (Primarina, Rillaboom, Skeledirge being starters, Toxtricity literally having Toxic and Electricity in its loczalization name, Jigglypuff and Clefairy lines already getting that type change)
i think its neat for attacks to basically have dual type, maybe if some actual types have interaction baked into them like how grass types are immune to powder and spore.
To me, it being sunny doesnt intuitively make sense to boost light, rather my intuition says light moves should be weaker because theyre being outshone and drown out
What about Wind? Or is thst too closely tied to Flying? I mean, Razor Wind exists, and grass-ghost types have Wind Rider... feels like Sound recontextualization if anything.
For the Light/Sunny Day interaction, maybe give light moves a pseudo priority boost when used in the sun. Like a 10-20% speed boost when using a Light move in the sun. That way any priority moves and especially fast pokemon will still out speed
i think instead of harsh sunlight boosting light moves, Magic Room could instead. harsh sunlight i think of as making light moves less effective because there’s already so much light, like how you can hardly see a flashlight on a sunny day. Magic Room however isn’t super used anyways, and the animation makes it look like the battlefield is covered in magic mirrors, which could bounce or amplify the light moves
It seems like the obvious carry for food type would be Stockpile, Swallow, and Spit-up. They have their own stacking, to a max of 3, but that only boosts up to half the max stat boost... so hold food double bonus? double heal double damage? Sure, why not. Could be a whole thing of trying to turtle hard enough so you dont consume your berry so you turtle harder, very defense-half, with a sprinkle of offense.
Wind-based moves like Tailwind, and Gust now interact with the Wind Rider and Wind Power abilities. I have always thought the Sand-based and Mud-based attacks and abilities would be cool, like demonstrating the difference between Ground and Ground like Sandaconda using Scorching Sand vs Mudsdale using Mud shot. Or doing something cool with Web-based attacks!
I always say this: Sound type would gut normal types even more. Every time historically a new type came out, normal types lose something. Normal types don’t need anymore loss and sound is already a category with sound based moves. It’s like making slicing its own type. Idk all of this is just my opinion, but i’m glad you’re on a similar page.
I actually came up with an idea in the last few months for a rock ghost shocked quartz glass pokemon, with an ability called refraction that would boost the power of light moves from the user and reflect the opponents light moves back at them but weaker. So yeah I think light works best as a pseudo type as well.
Counter-argument for the Harsh Sunlight boosting light moves. I think there should be an eclipse weather effect that boosts dark type moves and in the dark, light is boosted because it’s easier to see the light. A flashlight is less effective the brighter it is outside after all. A flash of bright light in the dark can be blinding
Removing contact and just replacing it with Physical means that moves like Rock Slide and Earthquake would count as contact, and special moves like Draining Kiss and Petal Dance would no longer make contact.
Contact should be focused on range, as in whether or not a pokemon can execute a move successfully from afar, or whether they need to be within melee range
Heavy/light weight mechanic. Weight based moves like low kick already have desirable, middling, or unimpressive outcomes depending if the pokemon is particularly heavy or not. Not all steel and rock pokemon are big. Could interact with moves like aerial ace. Heavy effective against fighting, fairy, and bug and weak to ground and flying, and visa versa. Moves like roll out, body press, are heavy while light is... Hmm. Maybe we just add heavy without light and everything that isn't heavy is light by default.
I think of contact can be broken up into already kind of pseudo types like punches, kicks, headbuts bites and full contact. Although some are undefined. I was just thinking that I saw a pokemon recently that got a boost from punch attacks.
I'd like to see more subtypes. I mean besides Sound based moves we have things like Aura and Bullet moves but you'd hardly know outside of a few signature abilities
I would argue to leave Sunny Day alone as a fire type move, and add "eclipse" as a new move that makes the ballfield dark, thus making the light type moves do more damage that way
