Don't forget that with Poliwag getting no guard, that also means Politoed gets it. 100% accurate Hydro Pumps from level up, 100% accurate Windbolt Storms from egg moves, and 100% accurate Blizzard and Focus Blast if you get lucky with TMs.
I didn't get why they got it but the document said "don't knock it till you try it" but wow yeah seems like he has a strong set with it, no matter which evolution you end on
@@SC_Silver_99 yeah but when he talked about Poliwag he only talked about the benefits Poliwrath would get, so he mentioned Dynamic Punch in the video.
Only 5 minutes in right now, but people probably need to know they've already patched out mid-battle form changes. Now you have to choose at the reward screen, which makes changing between two or more forms much less powerful. Edit: Spaghetti sauce. If you know you know ;)
The main issue is that all of these passives take forever to get and by the time you've actually grinded to unlock them you're already bored of the mon.
The point is that the mons that you like using get better the more you use them. The alternative wouldn't make sense - which is just that all pokemon get these power boosts by default and there's nothing to work toward.
Only really matters in classic, in endless mode you could always replace it with a way better option via splicing. Trace is actually relatively pretty bad for endless unfortunately.
@@gururaven Splicing makes the BST an average between the two pokemon if i recall, thus splicing slaking with anything would make it's stats considerably worse. correct me if im wrong. so no, i think it does matter in both. but, from what i know, raw damage just isn't enough past a certain point in endless.
In most cases the mons with weather/status abuse/huge power/type specific boosts are generally going to be far better. In this game slaking doesn't have any other power on its side and even nullifying the bad ability doesn't go far enough.
@@Baby-Blue-102 you splice him with something complimentary - like a mega Mawile for example. Raw damage stops working around 2500-3000 depending on who your carry is and how you built it.
I personally preferred when the passives were a fun little thematic thing, like it was supposed to make sense that the poke had it rather than "what can i give this thing to make it broken". When thematics were prioritized over mechanics, if that makes sense. But whatever people have fun with ig
I feel like you have this mixed up. They seem to still be trying to keep things thematic, but even single player games need to be balanced to keep the game entertaining. There isn't a lot they can change about individual pokemon (passive and cost) with the goal seeming to be to give every starter a niche, and a lot of previous passives were either too centralizing or problematic (Meowth lost all coverage due to normalize). Some examples of thematics being chosen for the changes: Tinkatink got nerfed to a more thematic passive, losing power but getting a passive that literally describes what the line is based on (blacksmiths). Misdreavus is a big winner on both theme and power, since it got Beads of Ruin (powerful and very thematic) instead of Dazzling (okay and mildly thematic). Igglybuff got Huge Power as a reference to the Mystery Dungeon games, where Wigglytuff was far stronger than you may expect. Throh gets Stamina over Simple, which fits very well for the Judo pokemon, and is mechanically relevant to its payback style moves.
Nah. You gotta understand that it is very grindy to unlock a passive ability, you have to make those passive abilities good enough to encourage the players to actually want to grind for it. A huge amount of mons had passives that absolutely 0 people grinder for
Yeah but making bad pokemon have really good passives even if it does fit it thematically allows for more pokemon to be available for runs and not just having only a handful that you can use
There just needs to be a balance between thematic fun, and feeling strong enough to both be worth spending the candy on in the first place. And I think overall they strike a good balance, especially with a lot of the current passive changes.
Huge Power on Tinkaton fit to me because it carries a giant metal hammer that ways 11x what it does but it only has 75 attack. I know they just gave it Huge Power because it's strong but it made sense.
sturdy squirtle is actually insane in classic... it allows you to abuse shell smash into bouncy bubble. set up a shell smash take a hit. bubble kill and heal to full. shell smash. get knocked down to sturdy. bubble kill and heal to full. set up last shell smash and be +6 attack +6 spc +6 speed. sweep
Can also run protect with 3 decent coverage moves, later into endless heal moves fall off as your health is way higher than enemies, better to fuse with something like primal Kyogre to get drizzle and origin pulse, thunder, ice beam and protect
Only until trainer battle, which is about every other floor once you reach floors 180+. About every 3-4 floor normally. Plus the rival battles and possible gym battles every 30 floors.
The reason irredeemable pokemon like luvdisc and sentret get pickup is because they are extremely cheap starters, especially when the cost is reduced which can be really good if they have luck 2 or 3
Flower veil description is bad because it only describes one of the 3 things it does. - Prevents allied grass pokes from status reduction (like clear body) - Prevents allied grass pokes from volatile status effects (purifying salt without ghost resistance) - The Big One: If the user is also a grass type: both of these will apply to them as well. It basically gives the user clear body and status immunity at all times. Not an “amazing” ability, but I think it can be very good!
Snow warning on Articuno is def crazy good. It has Snow Cloak, which means that the guaranteed snow will boost defense by 50%, boost evasion by 20%, and make blizzards never miss (technically boosting accuracy by 45%)!
Thank goodness someone said this, I was looking through the comments dumbfounded that bo one was making this clarification. Flower Veil honestly is very underrated anyways- Status immunity immediately without weather.
@@flamingythermit314 For the most part, but arguably better- it stops all status and stat drops so icy wind, Intimidate, lunge (for a random assortment) can't drop your stats and you can't get caught by status from stuff like nuzzle, flamethrower, sludge bomb, ice beam. And there are a few things that Good As Gold can block that this doesn't to further differentiate. Regardless, very strong, but that caveat of needing to be grass makes it super limited - it's only real distribution being on pure Fairy type, forcing it to doubles only (outside of niche gimmicks that wouldn't work in practice). Being on a grass type might be too much... if grass type (both as a typing and grass types in general) were better.
Only 30 mins into the vid, but man I can't lie a lot of these changes are really disappointing. Like why guts on nidoran? Makes no sense thematically and locks you into having to use a physical set...
Top tier idea tbh even if it doesn’t make as much sense for the Pokémon it’s definitely a lot more interesting and you don’t feel as bad about healing them to use em
Don't know if anyone else said it, but the reason Barboach had Ball Fetch was because of the anime, where a Whiscash just ate a thrown Master Ball without being caught. It was a funny little nod.
I'm very much in agreement on with you on a lot of the opinions you're expressing in this video. Personally, I think they really didn't really think things through. While there are some much needed ability buffs, some of them just do not fit thematically, and therefore doesn't feel like a Pokemon game. Spamming the same abililites over and over isn't fun. It's not creative or interesting, and many of these Pokemon just....don't deserve those abilities and don't fit those abilities. In this patch, they gave THIRTY THREE immunities and dozens of resistances, many of which _were_ weaknesses, not to mention Fur Coat/Ice Scales to a bunch of different mons. That is not okay, because now, we have to face all that in Endless mode for bosses. No thank you. I am not looking forward to facing Boss Desolate Land Magcargo paired with Boss Heatran with Earth Eater, or Well Baked Body Simisage,. I'd be much happier if they gave Pokemon like Slakoth and Archen and Wimpod hidden abilities, rather than eliminating their harmful abilities with Trace. That can be fun and interesting. Comatose Slakoth! Rocky Payload Archen! Shell Armor Wimpod! Trace is a terrible and lazy workaround.
"Creative and interesting" is completely subjective and sounds like you're just projecting, what is the point of a system u need to spend hours upon hours to farm out a passive if they aren't worth anything? The idea is that the system is a reward structure for playing the game with your favorites, so by proxy your favorites get stronger, the concept in of itself isn't meant to be the peak of creativity
@@Silulaya or maybe the point is that it's up to the player to decide whether the passive is worth going for? Or maybe that giving a pokemon fun and fitting abilities makes for unique team builds? Spamming Moxie/Beast Boost/Ice Scales/Fur Coat and immunity abilities isn't interesting. There are other abilities that could buff pokemon while giving those pokemon an opportunity to shine in niches they already have or create their own new niche. For example, Blissey already had an awesome passive in Triage! It doesn't need Fur Coat at all. It can leave tanking physical hits to another pokemon entirely. And Look, Swift Swim Drizzle is a fun combo....if one or maybe two Pokemon have it. But five or six is too much. We don't need to turn every Pokemon into a sweeper.
@@DWargs Well this would assume moxie/beast boost / ice scales / fur coat are spammed which they aren't if you look at the sheet all the abilities you have listed have under 10 distributions each for over 570 pokemon? Why do you keep usiong the words "all" and "every"? You understand how many pokemon there are right? It is up to the player to decide if it is worth, that is why the passives were made easy to distinguish their worth to the player. Nobody is gonna farm 4 hours for mimicry mimikyu (an old passive) it just has too little practical use, its funny and cool, but its not worth your time to farm. the system was designed to reward the player, if you are saying the system is rewarding the player with strong passives then it sounds like the system is doing its job. Make players play more under the guise they will be getting a strong passive for their favorite!
@@Silulaya "under 10 distributions each" My friend, I'm not talking about one ability in a vacuum. When designing a game, you have to consider all the aspects of it together. I lumped all those abilities in for a reason, just like how I lumped together the immunities and resistances. It's patterns. It's repetitive and redundant, but more importantly, it's redundant and repetitive, as well as very repetitive and redundant, and even repetitive and redundant! You see how the above sentence became more and more meaningless and less clever and interesting after every iteration? That's my point! The team has got hundreds of abilities to choose from, and this is the best they could think of. Just copy and pasting the same strategies over and over. Sentret and Zigzagoon are a good example here. Why make them mirrors of each other? They should be keeping abilities that separate them from each other, not make them even more similar. It's a small example of the overarching problem with this patch. "Scrappy on a Normal Type Pokemon! Oh, and...Scrappy on another Normal Type Pokemon? Huh, and...Scrappy on a Normal type Pokemon...." "Swift Swim and Drizzle! So cool! Oh, oh wow, they gave Drizzle to another Swift Swim Mon? Oh, and now a Swift Swim Mon to a Drizzle Pokemon..." You noticed it in Callum's video, and I was the same way. The more you repeat, the less it's neat. And no, the passives do NOT have to all be rewards. The act of unlocking the passive for the pokemon can be a reward in itself. Just like there were already people doing challenge runs or working towards beating the game with every pokemon before the game ever explicitly rewarded you for it. This is a rogue-like. Not every unlockable or build is optimal. Part of your task as the player is to discern which strategies work best and plan accordingly. For some pokemon, it should be that you prioritize reducing cost, rather than going for a passive ability. There's more layers to the game than "every pokemon should get a good ability"
@@DWargs this is all just your subjective opinion you're trying to project onto other feels a little selfish. Don't think sniffing your own farts and claiming your idea is peak game design even if it makes sense is whats best for a game to be fun, if anything you're advocating for things to be less good for the sake of "unique" like brother its pokemon, they're already plenty unique lmao
I can't tell if a lot of this is just rewriting because the last guy had a controversy, but at least that person felt like they had some thought process A lot of the old passives were fine changes, this is just frustrating to have put so many hours into things that got gutted
I think calling it a controversy is ridiculous. Dude just didn't feel the game was representing his journey through his faith. I do agree though. A lot of these changes feel like "let's give it a stat buff."
The main dev that left knew what he was doing. New devs "think" they know, people loved this game because there is broken shit, start "fixing" for the sake of balance and see how it dies out. They should focus on adding more bosses and more modes.
Jesus Cal, man is dedicated to the work grind, good on ya. Must've taken hours to set this custom tier list, and go through all the Pokémon. Have a good rest my dood, you've more than earned it.
They're really fkin with us with all these non implemented Parental Bond, no way all those stay when it's correctly implemented EDIT: They implemented parental bond, can't wait for the new changes
Hearing that Hoppip went from Prankster to Fluffy is devastating since it was one of the 1st shiny pokemon I ever hatched 😢. I even still have it on my team in my first successful Endless run on Floor 1600+ (can't remember the exact floor).
I was just starting to make my way through the old tierlist vid before the updated ability list dropped and here you are already with the new one lol, respect the grind
These are the videos we need. Pokerogue is blowing up in popularity, now with nearly 100k players simultaneously playing at peak times, so analysis of the ever changing metagame is important. I spent hours updating my lists of starters with their new passives and sometimes egg moves, so its good to see commentary on their merits.
@@justinmoore3669 see I never had that problem ... admittedly first impression definitely solves its problem. But ngl Dry Skin and Poison Heal gave it pretty good sustain. I even got tera water in the last couple of waves so it could sit in on E-max and get a sappy seed off no problem.
I think giving sentret pickup is sleeper VERY good in endless. Specifically for role compression on later stages. Making sure that you can keep your pickup mon and assuring that you have a runaway mon as well
Zigzagoon gets Run Away as a passive. No more Unown/Raticate fusions to compress Pickup and Runaway! And I already have a luck 3 Zigzagoon! Oh I like this change.
I definitely get what you were saying and were frustrated with some of these passives. The thematic ones work and are nice like Cramoramt having lightning rod because pikachu is in there, but SO SO SO many of these passives feel like “oh you have a quad weakness? Here just take an immunity for that instead” which is nice but good lord gets obnoxious after a while. Iron Moth doesn’t need levitate to be strong, it already IS strong and could have been given a different ability to highlight it/change its playstyle instead
simple Eevee is insane because they gave it no retreat as an eggmove, i used it on Vaporeon in a gen 1 run and it swept it the whole thing with revelation dance, icebeam, no retreat, and bouncy bubble for some recovery.
The "improvement" is a bit misleading, at the start of the video he said that he means it as compared to the pokemon with no passive, not compared to its old passive. Flash fire is a big downgrade compared to proto yeah, though now through recommendations (in other words, huge backlash plus a couple good ideas) from the discord, they changed it to turboblaze which is nice with sturdy and a lot of new levitate + earth eater
@@devilgamer1998 Thats what I get for skipping to pokemon Im interested in I guess. Though its hard to imagine a pokemon getting "worse" by having a passive than without one.
I mean with flash fire it get immunity to any potential powered up fire moves and yeah I do think photosynthesis is better overall but immunity is always appreciated too
Bro its a single player game wtf is this?? Just got huge power tinkaton and a tier 2 shiny paras with poison heal last night for nothing, meanwhile half the abilities and moves aren't properly working yet. The devs need to realize having a perfectly balanced game doesn't = a fun game.
I heard that these changes might be to accommodate a PvP mode that's in the works, that the game absolutely doesn't need because we still have Showdown.
i think the charmander change to beast boost is fine considering sheer force isnt implemented its still lame its not cause sheer force nidoking is like one of my fave pokemon its better to have a working ability/passive than none at all
@drax1526 That is fair, I was more saying that multiple Mon had their main engine passive changed. Greninja might have not deserved the hit as much as others, but with good IVs he could easily solo most floors with little to no danger.
Squirtle's Sturdy makes Mega Blastoise an incredible pick for the super late game, especially if you can fuse it with Polteageist. With the way berries work, if you get the berry bags and a bunch of stat boosting berries stacked up, you can safely shell smash (as long as you are at full hp), then get max stat buffs from your berries +heal up back to almost full. Then, the reason you want Polteageist is weak armor and stored power. It's an incredible build that just goes on and on, destroying the super late game
For Toedscruel, Prankster only kinda bypasses Mycelium Might. It still goes last in it's Prio Bracket, but it's now in the +1 Pro Bracket. So you have one of the, if not, THE strongest status mon in the game becuse your fast status can't be ignored unless the target is immune. Toedscruel is a staple on my Classic runs and it always puts in the work.
So the most likely reason for giving Regigigas Mind's Eye is because in Pokerogue it can get Normalize as a Hidden Ability, ditching Slow Start in exchange for only being able to use Normal attacks; Mind's Eye let's it hit ghost types while using its hidden ability.
hot take: I like a lot of the changes. I think a lot of what is being said comes from a place of wishing for more individual mons to be unique (they already weren't aside from stats), but that's just not going to happen this fast and re-using pre-existing abilities. A way they could do what Callum mentions as preferred is if they start making custom abilities/passives. Plus this is a game with fusion, all of them could be functionally the same mon in a long enough endless run. (and frankly they have to be, but that's a different issue)
@18:00 No Triage certainly doesn't affect Sappy Seed, since it doesn't even affect Leech Seed. While it does help Parasect's Leech Life and and Horn Leech egg moves, i'm not convinced that Parasect should be anywhere near "Really Strong" ("improvement" makes more sense). 1 cost from the start notwithstanding, he still has an abysmal 405bst (345 relevant when ignoring the useless 60 special attack), which Triage granting +3 priority to his dual stab leech moves somewhat compensates for in terms of partially solving his abysmal 30 speed, but at the end of the day his horrific bug/grass typing prevents it from functioning due to 6 weaknesses and crippling 4x fire and 4x flying (rendering him dead weight against Rayquaza/Eternatus). In an imaginary world where Triage affected the insane Sappy Seed, THEN he would actually be viable since he can guarantee plant a leech seed on them, which would be huge.
Thanks for the hard work man. But if I may, why do we keep ranking mons higher assuming we will get the megas in our runs? I feel like we should be judging the base mons and their evolutions.
I think the bigger issue is that Pokemon does not have a lot of good abilities. When you really look at it, about 1/4th of the abilities Pokemon have are actually good and not niche.
Won't lie, as someone who's first actual shiny was Talonflame--and thus I was using it a lot--I liked Talonflame's old playstyle. :( Risk reward management with Reckless was insanely fun, and it gave Talonflame some extra oomph in the damage department to help even lategame. It doesn't make sense why they changed it at all, so honestly, right there with you on that. It's interesting to see that it was mostly improvements/broken all around. One of the things I will say I found funny is that they put Gholdengo in jail for being broken...and then gave it Contrary. Which unless they went back on it (and frankly they should???) is hilarious.
Sharpness Super Luck Absol is gonna swords dance once and explode everything with Night Slash crits. We just need Sniper Scope, but Dire Hit drops can work just fine
It's worth noting the list is still being updated. Gimmighoul is now getting Contrary for example. Overall I'd like to see Pokerogue implement both abilities on a lot of these pokemon with a toggle to swap between them or turn them off, similar to how the shiny toggle works. Each ability would cost its own set of candies to unlock ofc. I feel like I'm the only person not hyped for Dhelmise. Removing its fire weakness is great and all, but the only water move it learns without a TM is Whirlpool. Yay? Dhelmise gets more water moves through TMs sure, but most of those are special (SA base of 86) with only one water type TM taking advantage of its much higher attack (PA base of 131), Liquidation. Is it bad? no, but I believe that in the vast majority of runs its closer to Heatproof than being equivalent to an adaptability STAB for another type. EDIT: Apparently there's also going to be an egg move update along with it, so it'll probably get a water move with that and you can ignore me on this if that's the case.
No Guard on Patrat also stacks with Illuminate, as both increase the likelihood of double battles. Patrat becomes basically a portable lure, which is pretty great for shiny and hidden ability hunting
Regigigas is actually good in this game because they gave it Normalize as a Hidden Ability, which also synergizes perfectly with Mind's Eye. Overall though a lot of the changes are disappointing and most of the reasons given for them are either just more generic improvement or the devs outright coping by saying 'the old ability wasn't that good actually.'
hey callum, big fan of the pokerogue content, but it would be amazing if you could do a brief recap segment of the S-tier at the end so that we don't have to watch all 2 hours just to find out what the best pokemon/passives are etc
"nothing can redeem lediba" it gets prankster and as egg moves parting shot and spore xD and yes many mons have lum berries however eating that berry to wake up also eats up their turn so the basicly get flinched until they have to accept the sleep ^^ that for 1 cost is absolutely broken xD
Respect your opinion and everything but the passives are meant to be a reward structure within the game, so it makes more sense to have them be strong with a little thematic sprinkle so they make some sort of sense rather than just being completely pointless and a waste of 4 hours of farm time which was a problem with alot of the previous passives. The reason they feel samey is because theres only a certain pool of strong abilities to choose from that can fit each individual pokemon, so while some people say "they lack creativity", well, atleast they are fun to play with and a powerful reward to a player in a rogue-like game
1:19:05 from the mon in isolation well baked body doesn't make sense with pansage, but looking at it's lore within the game it kinda does bc chili, cilan, and cress used the monkeys to help cook in their restaurant. They were also implemented as the tutorial on type matchups, so I think it's fun for the passives to flip that on its head
Eevee with Simple, oh yes! doubled curses, doubled calm minds... double NO RETREAT (yes, I too enjoy +2 to everything), and then baton pass your buffs along... so much buff potential with the vee.
I dunno, turning the only reasonable way to deal with Heatran into HEALING for it is absolutely nerf territory. I'd say the only two things holding it back could be that 1. its rarity and 2. Its painful to think about fusing it.
i get thematic purposes make it more interesting, but they are also tryna make most mons more usable and willing to farm up. like you werent farming up fletchling, but now for magic guard fletchling it means you are more likely to farm it. also means your attention for farming candies is split and encourages more game time
I absolutely love flame orb it literally won me my first classic run. My Gmax Machamp came in with it at phase 2 and mini black hole took it before machamp got oneshotted.
1:47:24 another thing with this is that tinted lenses first impression is exactly what made Lokix so good. Not only is trace unfitting, but it’s boring, and dumps what made Golisopod fun to use straight out the window.
Ball Fetch on Barboach was actually a really funny anime reference (I assume) of a time where a guy hunted a Whiscash for ages and then when he finally got to it with a Masterball after a bunch of Build-up and stuff the Whiscash just swallowed the Masterball somehow
It's really nice when balance and thematics meet, but it's not realistically going to happen every time. In the cases that it doesn't, I think balance should take priority, I'd rather have something that isn't necessarily thematic but the passive actually makes it fun or potentially useful where it might not have been before. Great video though! I agree with a lot of the points you made in the video still
man I was so excited to use Contrary Gholdengo so Imagine my dismay when they changed its passive in the most recent patch to HONEY GATHER, fine I guess its good for gathering money but jeez, that bums me out
tbh my main issue with most of these is that they are to over used. EVERY pokemon with Skill Link got Technician, and a bunch of stuff got Moxie, and Beast Boost. It just feels a little boring, not to mentio Golisopod getting Trace which imo is a massive downgrade from Tinted Lens. I agree that Passives should be good, but it would be nice to see more variety, and have the passives be more thematic.
I think you under ranked opportunist as a passive. I'm doing an endless right now with koraidon fused with mega mawile and it's stupidly broken. With multi lenses each hit triggers a bunch of enemy buffs which power up the rest of my hits it's actually crazy I've had plenty of boss fights where I go plus 6 on attack and kill in one turn and then just carry those buffs into the next several encounters.
Honestly bellsprout might be pretty good with protosynthesis, since it already gets chlorophyll as an ability and can make use of either attack stat with growth
I 100% agree with Nymble being a nerf, it sucks so bad. I loved my tinted lens, technician nymble with fell stinger, bug bite, assurance, and double kick
