Back in those days, I never saw a bad Pontiac...or any full size GM. The Fords and Chrysler products were good too. AND, if anything broke, you could fix 'em at home!
I think one factor for 1978 being the biggest year for overall Pontiac sales may have been the Firebirds/Trans Ams production being high due to the release of Smokey and the Bandit in summer of 1977.
Again, thank you Adam for your documenting the iconic Pontiac brand. Having started my service career with Pontiac in 1972, those early Tin Indians and all the way through the early 1980's are still dear to my memories. Owned several beautiful Pontiacs including a 63 Grand Prix, 1968 GTO, a 1966 Catalina 2dr hardtop, and a 1978 Bonneville Brougham coupe. Loved each of them. Had dozens of company demos that I was too found of also. Old guy pleasant memories of the GM of days gone by I guess.
I absolutely love the 1977-1990 GM B-Body platform cars. My first car was a 1977 Impala. I've also had a Caprice Classic, Electra and Delta 88. Never had a Pontiac or Cadillac though. I currently have a 1996 Buick Roadmaster sedan. I love the LT1 engine, but I would much rather have the boxy body style and velour seats of the earlier cars
Speaking of mistakes, reminds of when I worked in the print shop at Willow Run Hydramatic when the new calendar made it to press with the misspelling of Camero instead of Camaro! The pressman caught it! Good job Tim R!
I think that Pontiac's biggest marketing error was discontinuing full size cars and renaming the Le Mans Bonneville. This fooled no one, and Pontiac was forced to import Parisiennes from Canada.
'79, the year of he second gasoline crunch, was the peak model year for Cadillac sales, though I don't think that was considered a good thing. The buyers were getting older and older and the price premium for the cars was getting smaller and smaller; a perfect example of the expression, "selling them as if they were going out of style" .
I haven't heard you mention the Chevrolet advertising slogan/jingle for the downsized B-body cars: "Now, that's more like it, the new Chevrolet!". It was that way with all GM divisions, apparently. But to tell you the truth, that burgundy 2+2 on the video title card was the best-looking car in the whole presentation. Great show!
As a teenager I was drooling over the Catalina 2+2 hardtop with the 421, 4-speed, bucket seats and center console. It was way cooler than the Impala SS.
I have nothing but love and adoration of the 1977-1981 Pontiac. I think the fact that 83 Parisienne Brougham was a parts bin Caprice was a huge disgrace, and it’s reflected in their current market value. Unwanted by Pontiac or Caprice buyers. I’ve seen things like this in posters where an Astro van has whitewall on the rear and black wall on the front, or a Cadillac Brougham commercial filming the hood ornament driving down the road with the hood latch out of adjustment.
Excellent proofreading Adam. In 1978 Pontiacs were everywhere. Smokey and the Bandit helped the Trans Am/Firebird sales. Pontiac marketing slogan “We build excitement” was timely genius.
I can believe it. Pontiac had a sizeable lineup in 1978, and had a good market position at the time. Popularity from Smokey and the Bandit surely helped too. It's easy to forget cars like the sunbird but they played a (albeit small) part. Marketers making mistakes? I think it's easy to forget just how easy it is to find and check information now a days. I'm far more willing to forgive a relatively minor technical mistake from the late 70s. I wouldn't overlook the same mistake today.
Not surprised 78 was Pontiac's top sales year. While the full size cars were downsized for 1977, the Grand Prix was downsized for 78 (along with the Monte Carlo, Regal and Cutlass and they were all a huge sales success for their respective divisions). Plus a certain movie released in 1977 called "Smokey and the Bandit" caused a run on Trans Am's and Firebirds in 77, 78 and even 79 after they facelifted the car and S&TB 2 came out helping sales of the facelifted car. For those 3 model years they couldn't build those cars fast enough to satisfy the demand.
As far as individual model sales records, 1977 was the top selling year ever for the Grand Prix. Would guess that’s because everyone knew the downsizing was coming in 78. The best sales year for the Firebird/Trans Am was 1979. That was the last year of the availability of a 400. Similarly 77 was the last year a 400 would be available in the Grand Prix. People could see the way GM was going. 75 was the last year the 400 was the standard Grand Prix engine. In 76 it became the 350 and was down to the 301 in 77. True Pontiac enthusiasts are fans of the Pontiac V8. Especially the 400 and 455.
A good friend of mine has a 1965 Grand Prix with 389 3x2 barrel, the last year for the 389 3x2, full size, except in the '66 GTO. The original owner who ordered the car didn't want a 421, because his '64 Grand Prix 421 burned oil. Thus a very rare combination of a 389 GP 3x2 factory 4 speed survivor
The Woodward Avenue reference was to a big GTO ad showing the green GTO in a traffic circle heading off in the direction of Woodward, in it’s day, it was an incredibly bold reference to street racing, and it wasn’t lost on anyone who knew anything about cars, it was and is a landmark piece of advertising.
Are you suggesting they were ashamed of it? I heartily disagree. This was simple ignorance and/or laziness on the part of the people putting the brochure together.
@@MarinCipollina I’m suggesting they wanted as little difference in size between the biggest engine available in ‘77 versus ‘66. The actual 4xx in ‘66 would’ve been too big of a difference, risking ‘77 buyers holding off on their purchase because they couldn’t get as big of an engine as they could a decade earlier.
@@steven.l.patterson Do you know people that actually think like that? That they would "hold off" until 421 Tripower engines returned? There was zero reason for anyone to think that in 1977.. Engines were only getting smaller, along with the cars they were placed in.
@@MarinCipollina they weren’t going to hold off because it was clear at the time the biggest engines weren’t coming back. But they would be upset if they saw in a brochure a reference to the big engines they had just a decade earlier. If the ad copy was slightly inaccurate they’d avoid upsetting a segment of new car buyers.
When I lived in Hawaii we drove a White 1966 Pontiac 2 Door Bonneville Convertible. I still remember having to wave off F-14 Tomcats trying to land on the trunk.
It is technically incorrect to call the car a "Catalina 2+2" for 1966 or refer to 2+2 as an option package that year, as Adam does many times in this video. 1966 was the lone model year in which 2+2 was its own standalone model, not a Catalina (which it was in 1964, 65, and 67).
I couldn't pick a favorite of the down sized GM full size models. All of them had great designs. The 77 Bonneville looks great with the rear fender skirts.
That brochure had some other errors, the main one being that 63 (rather than 62) was the first Grand Prix and claiming that the GTO was the first car offered with tripower triple two barrel carburation when in reality it had been offered nearly a decade before the gto even came to exist. As for 78 being the high water mark for Pontiac production that is true, but there are a few points to consider; first is that this was not the high water mark in terms of market share, two is that the Grand Prix and Firebird were big sellers. However the real reason for 78 being the peak year was because Pontiac had a plethora of badge engineered little econoboxes that represented much lower sales dollars per car and even less profit per car. The reality was that the bread and butter full and mid sized Pontiacs had gone from being very popular to being the runts of GM in sales. The loss of the 400 powered Trans Am in 80 killed Firebird sales and the GP never regained its popularity once it was downsized. The fullsized line evaporated in 1982 and the midsized models become shadows of their previous sales volume. Pontiac enjoyed a short renaissance in the 80’s and 90’s with good marketing and a sporty branding before again falling apart in the late 90’s. Rest in peace.
I was 10 in 1977, and had to unlearn a couple of things later in life that I read in that brochure. Your comment reminds me that, for years, I thought 1963 was the first Grand Prix.
Another thoroughly entertaining and educational video! Thank you, Adam! Your information and presentation are amazing. I love how you almost read your followers' minds as when you stated that 1978 was Pontiac best sales here, and you knew we would question that in our minds thinking would be mid-60s.
I had an 84 Pontiac 6000 STE. Avery sporty and quick czr with lots of bells and whistles. Those special pallex cloth, STE only manually adjustable lumbar backs, now rest in my 65 Chevy C10 show truck. I miss that starwars dash display, long before Dakota Digital graced the aftermarket scene.
I remember having a copy of that brochure in 1977. Like most readers, I never noticed the mistake noted in the video. Probably some writer on the team said "I once had a big Pontiac with a 389" and that was the basis for the error. To me, the downsized Catalina and Bonneville were nice family cars, that were right for the times. They had adequate power available, at least as an option. But the thought among some brochure readers was undoubtedly that Pontiac's past was better in some ways than the future. That's the downside of writing new product promotional materials which also reflect on a brand's proud legacy. However, during the mid to late 1970''s, the baby boomers were largely focused on starting families and building their careers. Muscle cars (such as the Trans Am) were still available, but it had already been 7-8 years since such cars of all makes peaked in popularity and horsepower. And, the shock of the oil crisis had somewhat subsided, but was still in the back of many carbuyers' minds.
Well done as always - thank you. The combination of the downsized cars, while still offering 350 and 400 cubic inch engines (Chevy and Pontiac respectively) gave much better fuel economy and performance. The interiors were actually more spacious than their predecessors as well. Over all, the economy was doing well in 77 and 78 (discarding inflation). In short, mix all that together and I’ve no trouble believing 78 was a peak year. Again, thank you ~ Chuck
My father had 78 laurentian (Catalina trim in US I think) decent. Reliable. Lots of fun in snowy Western Newfoundland winters. Horrible understeer and had the soft cam 305 but fortunately he sold it at about 50,000 miles for a Subaru wagon.
To put things in perspective, I have a 1977 Buick Electra 225 that I’ve owned for 30 years. The original Electra was 225 inches long and that’s where the 225 comes from. Over the years the Electra grew to over 230 inches long. My downsized 1977 is a little Buick, as it’s only 222 inches long. (about eighteen and a half feet) We were looking at a condo, and the Buick wouldn’t fit in the garage which was made for a Prius!
Totally agree! I think the 65 model year was the best of GM styling across the board! Didn't think the Buick and Olds of that year was so much, but they've grown on me since then.
fun fact: the 376hp 2+2 held Car and Driver magazine 0-60 record for Decades. 3.9 seconds hand timed. The secret was optional Hd tires off the station wagon combined with a 3.42 posi. This allowed the test car to wind out 1st gear (with a slight over-rev) to 60 mph. Car and Driver was often accused of turning a blind eye to Pontiac test car shenanigans, (Royal Bobcat, 428 swaps into GTO etc.) But still, 3.9 seconds with a huge car is badass.
Makes sense that 1978 was their best year with both the recent redesign of the full-size lineup, the introduction of the 1978 new midsized lineup, and the popularity of the TransAm with the Smokey and the Bandit movie.
Love this... shame on the copywriter for that oversight... Even though I always loved the huge cars and I have a soft spot for the 70's models, even though they got so sluggish, I was excited and proud as a 14 year old when the downsized cars came out.. Pontiac didnt disappoint with the styling.. I really loved the coupes especially, with the landau roofs. Every brand was really a big hit, and although similar, they retained their brand distinctions enough to make them beautiful and interesting. My favorite year though was probably the 80/81, with a lean to the 81 for crisper lines and less fussy tail lamp treatment. Those dash boards, combined with the Sheer backlight, were my dream car for my high school graduation.. Thanks for a wonderful video.. I'm out working on my 74 currently (Grand Ville 4drHT) BTW.. check your spam folder.. sent an email!!! Thanks again Adam!!! You keep me inspired with all the frustrations I run into with my projects..
IMO the only mistake Pontiac made was continuing with the fender skirts on Bonnevilles, especially 2-doors. They made a crisp and elegant design look ponderous and awkward. A revived Catalina 2+2 for '77, with bucket seats in an otherwise Bonneville-grade interior, open rear wheelwells with styled road wheels and no vinyl top option would've been a sharp car even with the "economy" engine (a Chevy 305 that year?)
My dad bought a brand new ’78 Bonneville. It was a really nice driving car that had an extremely smooth and quiet ride. But my dad, economy minded as ever, opted for the 301 V8 which was a bit of a dog on acceleration. Our previous ’73 Catalina 400 was a smooth and powerful runner so even my dad was a bit disappointed in the Bonneville's power. That engine spun a main bearing at 77,000 miles, and it had this strange lightweight two counterbalance weight crankshaft. It was very smooth, though.
Excellent points that you make on the downsizing of American sedans of that era. Oddly enough, a few years later started the era of the SUV. Seems as if the car industry skated by the rules governing cars as these luxury SUV's were considered to be "trucks" not cars. Lengthwise, some of these large vehicles dwarf the luxury boats of the 1970's and earlier.
I remember GM doing very well in the late 70's. They were on a roll with the downsized full and mid sized cars along with the new X-bodies. And then came the hangover caused by poor build quality, over stressed automatic transmissions and the numerous X-body recalls.
For the US market, only the 1964 Catalina 2+2 used the 389, as 2+2 was then merely a trim package for the Catalina. The 2+2 badge was a much more discrete squarish black badge, I believe the numbering was chrome within it. For '65, he 421 became standard for the 2+2 package, with the new "out of the box" red-numbered badging. That would grow to 428 for '67, which was the final year for the US 2+2. Canada, which were Pontiac-skinned Chevys in those years, kept the 2+2 going for a few more years, but with more pedestrian Chevy power. I'm not sure the V8 was even standard in the Canadian 2+2s.
It makes perfect sense that Pontiac's best sales year was 1978, as the population was growing, baby boomers began buying cars, and this was right before the imports really began to take market share.
I remember this brochure. I think this was also the one that stated that the first Grand Prix was 1963 (when in fact it was 1962). I thought that the 77-78 Bonneville coupe with the tutone paint (especially the gray and silver with red pinstripes and red interior) was a great looking car. Did not include the 79 Bonneville because the Pontiac 400 engine was no longer available in that car. I believe the full size Chevy was MT car of the year in 1977 but I thought the 77 Pontiac was so much better, especially in looks.
I sourced the better taillamps off a 2005 Pontiac Bonneville GXP for my 2003 SLE. Now I no longer have the plastic delamination problem. You only need to trade the reverse and turning lamp wires to match the lense placement.
I remember the 1978 Pontiac sales brochure saying "1978 - Pontiac's best year yet!" They were doing well, and at the time, they had every reason to expect to do better. (Oldsmobile was also doing extremely well in 1977 and 1978 - they sold over 1 million Oldsmobiles in those years.) But Pontiac marketing making a mistake in its own brochure - that is pretty sad.
Thank you Adam. It is so nice you bring forth the interesting videos and facts and designers and more. You keep things quite interesting. I have this brochure in my home. Pontiac was doing something right in the 1970's it seems. I like the 1980-1981 Pontiac Bonneville and 1985-1986 Pontiac Parisienne. The 1977 downsizing at GM was quite successful. The one that took place in the 1980s( 1985-1986) was not. It took GM years to recover from that.
@@MarinCipollina The 1980-1981 Pontiac Parisienne was the exact same car that was sold as the Pontiac Bonneville in the United States. I know because I have the brochure here in the house. The 1982-1984 Parisienne were based on Chevrolet Caprice as you stated. The 1985-1986 was a combination of 1980-1981 Pontiac Bonneville and Chevrolet Caprice. Please feel free to go online and look. There are several here on You Tube in videos and there is information online as well.
It's like you say, the ad was written by some marketing firm, but you would think that Pontiac folks would have read it over and catch the error. But, I'm sure that most of the Pontiac folks in their inhouse marketing department weren't around in 1966 so know next to nothing about the 2+2. So much history is lost when long time employees retire/leave. Same is true for engineering. The engineering department of most companies should be required to have an ongoing "history class", so mistakes are not repeated, and important innovations/discoveries are not forgotten. All this reminds me of a real blunder by our marketing department at OMC/Evinrude/Johnson. Some genius decided to mimic the springtime basketball championship going coming up with a sales promotion, calling it the "fast break" promotion! How friggin stupid can one/many get. I can understand some marketing company coming up with such a stupid promotion, but the fact that management approved it is mind boggling. Needless to say, our competition had a field day with this campaign....
Pontiac's downsized cars style were better than some other GM divsions. Not as gracefull as 1976 Pontiacs but okay. What really hurt Pontiac and other divisions were small V8 engines. But Pontiac full size cars were handsome in 1977 - 1979.
'American cars' track widths had been pretty much standardized going back to the brass era - look at London-Brighton run pics and the American cars stand out for having axles *significantly* wider than their bodies, so they could fit the ruts made by Conestoga wagons - by '59 that had evolved into the elephant-on-roller-skates look every domestic '59 had except Pontiac (and the Studebaker Lark and senior Ramblers). Exceptions had always been narrower - the rounded Ramblers that had been engineered for skirted front fenders and the increasingly popular small imports led by VW. Early on, '59 Pontiacs didn't fit a lot of car washes because they were over "standard tread".
What do you think about doing a video on the similarities/differences of the outgoing (in 1977) A-Bodies and the incoming B/C-Bodies? Were these new cars riding a chassis similar to the Colonnades or earlier? As always....LOVE your videos! I've loved Pontiacs since I was a kid in the 70s....and this brochure has always been a favorite of mine.
I’m pretty certain that the full size B and C bodies from 77 up to when GM eliminated full size RWD cars rode the colonnade platform that debuted in 73. It would’ve debuted in 72 if not for the big labor strike. That platform has to be one of if not the most successful in history.
There is always the possibility that it was a deliberate mistake by the marketing department. The target buyer was someone in their late 30’s-early 40’s, who had owned or wanted a GTO. And without a doubt, the 389 would have been the most recognizable engine. Even today, if you ask what was Pontiac’s best engine, most people are going to say either a 389 tri-power or SD455. People just don’t remember the 400, 421 or 428.
In 1986 the Fleetwood was based on the FWD DeVille. That which HAD been RWD Fleetwood is now a Brougham (or Brougham De Elegance). People mistakenly call 1987-1992 Broughams Fleetwoods.
Yes, it was confusing. Actually the full size, rear drive Cadillac indeed still used the Fleetwood name in 1986. It was called the "Fleetwood Brougham" while the front drive Fleetwood variant never used the Brougham moniker. Since It was confusing for consumers and dealers, they ultimately dropped the Fleetwood name from the rear drive car in 1987. At that point the Brougham became the model designation for the rear drive car and the Fleetwood name was exclusive to the top trim of the front drive model. I have a triple white 1986 Fleetwood Brougham with blue carpet and dash in my collection and it is indeed badged "Fleetwood Brougham" right on the quarter panel and it also has the d'Elegance package. It's also called "Fleetwood Brougham" right on the original 1986 window sticker, which I have. Ironically in 1993 when the Buick Roadmaster debuted along with the redesigned Chevy Caprice, they revived the Fleetwood name for the redesigned full size rear drive car and the Fleetwood Brougham was again the top of the line rear driver. The Brougham package replaced the d'Elegance package from 93-96. Cadillac also killed the front drive Fleetwood model after the 91 model year due to poor sales.
@@andrewg.spurgeon1736 The Roadmaster debuted in 1991 as a Station wagon. The Sedan debuted in 1992. The Caprice sedan and station wagon in this new body also came out for 1991.
@@andrewg.spurgeon1736 I always thought that "Brougham" was just too generic to be a proper Cadillac model name. By 1980 nearly ever car made in Detroit had some sort of "Brougham" version. The 1980s RWD big Cadillac was the true inheritor of the "Fleetwood" moniker.
Although I was a kid, I still remember that transition from 76 to 77 GM cars. It was huge and I recall my father (who worked at GM) telling me that the new models were in a for a big change. As for 1978...yes quite understandable it was a good year. Just look at all the models sport and sedan and station wagon. All nice..
Reminds me of some company's attempt to revive the "Burma Shave" brand, maybe 20 years ago, to sell old fashioned shaving kits, the kind that came with a brush. If they had done their research, they'd have known that one of the selling points of the original Burma Shave cream in the 1940s was that, unlike old fashioned shaving creams, it didn't need a brush.
Being A "Route 66er" I had a Burma-Shave razor about 20 years ago. I think it was Schick that reintroduced it as it used Schick blades. Was bummed when it bit the dust!
I used to forge GM connecting rods, steering spindles and crankshafts for GM when I was a Union Blacksmith at Interstate Drop Forge in Milwaukee WI, back in the 80s through 2002. (Plant shutdown and sold in 2002). A lot of truck parts, but we also forged for passenger cars. It was interesting work, and the pay was decent. I don't know the break down between forged & cast, maybe Adam will. Cheers. And remember; FORGED STEEL IS THE METAL YOU CAN TRUST!
typically early sixties era Pontiacs had forged crank rods and pistons if they were multi carbed like 405 hp/421, 360hp/389 etc. the name "Trophy" also included forged parts. also anything Nascar related.
Had a '76 Astre, so not a Pontiac fan, sorry. The downedsazed cars of 77 were a huge (pun intended!) improvement of the cars they replaced. They needed more brand identity however.
Yeah, I can see why owning an Astre would leave a bad taste in your mouth for Pontiac. A buddy of mine felt the same way about Buick after owning a Skyhawk! It was a POS!
I bought a new 1978 Pontiac Bonneville Brougham 2 door coupe. It was a nice car but the quality just wasn’t there. Much of the chrome trim started to pit after only a couple of weeks of ownership. The hood outer panel separated from the inner and when driving down the highway it looked like the hood was ajar. I had to do some tall talking to get the dealership to replace the hood. I drove it 78,000 miles in just under 4 years and didn’t have a lot of mechanical issues unlike the car that replaced it, a 1980 Oldsmobile Delta with a diesel engine. What a total piece of junk.
I have to figure that they did not want a bigger engine than 400 since it would appear the car they were selling in 1977 was a downgrade. Which it was. Looking at the brochures from the mid 70's , few if any mention the horsepower or torque of any of the engines offered. This is from all American car makers.
Wasn't 1978 Cadillac's best selling year, also? There was considerable (but not yet peak) inflation, but the Fed hadn't yet begun raising interest rates to stop it, so buying cars with borrowed money made more sense than saving it.
The 1966 Canadian 2+2's could come with a 396 chevy engine instead of the 421 American engines as they were not standard equipment in Canada. This engine restriction was across the Pontiac linup as the OHV straight 6 was also very rare in canadian pontiac cars which were basically Chevrolets with Pontiac front an rear styling. However the rest of the BOP lineup remained in tact on both sides of the boarder.
It sounds to me like Pontiac's ad agency, which would likely have done the brochure, needed to do some homework. Also, from what someone else has pointed out, some study of English would be recommended. The error of an incomplete sentence is not uncommon in automotive literature.
I was so disappointed when the downsized GM cars came out, felt they had lost of lot of their raison d'être but after driving the new smaller cars, they were superior in every way. I own a 75 Grand Ville, but it just isn't as nice a car as the downsized models
I agree, initially, they seemed like a big letdown stylistically but they seemed more solid than the early 70's GM cars with those terribly floppy doors and hoods.
