Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 vs BMW M2 CS - Head to Head Review! 

Thanks for being a long timer!

Totally agree. I was going to write a similar comment. Keep it up @Zygrene, this is top notch content

Bay Area has LOTS of money for cool cars.

Every other weekend is a GT4 comparison 😂 he moved from the S2k guy to the GT4 guy at this rate hahaha

I don't go looking for them, they find me!! 😂

@@gravity45b Whats the next step!? 720S guy!!!?

What a nice problem to have

Great comment. Off to the BRZ/miata mobile 😂

Agree, had one felt the same way. Chopped it quickly. Engine has no fireworks as well. Kinda boring car tbh.

Sad how true this is. I’ve been dailying an AP2 S2K that I picked up and that’s been so much more enjoyable on public roads. Love my GT4 but it gets a lot of annoying attention and like you said, can’t be driven how it begs to be unless you want to be THAT guy. Also, imo, it really needs a set of headers and the short gearing to get the most of it and that adds another 20k to the already high cost. I’m really wanting to get a 997 or 991 C4S with a stick to daily as I think it would be so much more fun and useable on road. M2CS seems sweet, just too much money for what it is to me but that’s coming from a guy who hasn’t driven one. Glad they exist.

@@IIVVX Engine is great compared to 99 percent of cars imo just doesn’t quite do enough when you know the GT3 and it’s engine exists.

@@dsher503ya the problem is I’ve driven a GT3 so now pretty much any engine seems inferior.

I'm in the same boat as you, except my CS is a manual. Don't think I'll ever sell it. The G87 owners are a different breed, they are so convinced that hideous thing is infinitely superior to any F87, and all they talk about is how much "better" the S58 engine is. I've driven a handful of the new ones at this point, mainly because my dealership has been trying annoyingly hard to get me to sell them my CS and order a G87. I really, really dislike the G87, in looks, but even moreso in driving. It doesn't feel faster, it doesn't rev as high, the manual feels ALL kinds of wrong, the auto is just boring (they should have kept the DCT going, good on you for getting a DCT, the M2 CS DCT is nearly as good as a PDK, the new ZF8, though, just feels like "some transmission"). The biggest problem with the new engine itself is that they built it around that stupid ZF8, and it actually ruins the manual because they kept the same final drive ratio, and they also could've given the S58 a higher redline, but the stupid ZF8 couldn't handle more than 7200, despite the manual being able to handle quite a bit more revs. BMW is just fucking up with the whole G series, imo. I can't even believe how lazy the newly announced M5 is.

The 991.2 GT3 engine makes the GT4 engine feel outright dull

@@Zygrene agreed, which is why the GT4RS is such a tasty proposition though insanely pricey.

GT series seems like a castrated version of RS, which is a castrated version of Cup. Multimatic only make suspension of Cup3s. Gt4 is like the og M2 in its hierarchy.

It's that beautifully weird rear-engine balance versus the "perfect" mid-engine balance. There's something magical about chaining together perfect corners in a 911.

Such good timing

That would be fun. Need to find a 1M

Can't compare an old N54 with the S55. One is far superior than the other.

The 981 GT4 sounds a million times better.

It's because there is a real difference in CS vs normal Comp in BMW's and that's where the emotion comes in vs Porsche or BMW comps

Were you able to drive the M2CS before you went GT4?

@@Hapkin not the cs but the m2 comp, it is big and heavy for me(like 250kg more vs gt4). I prefer smaller, lighter cars and the high revving n/a engine. Gt4 is just way more special for me.

@@takkr1979 that's fair. My other car is a modded R56 Mini and in line for Emira but the CS drives way lighter than the Comp due to 42 pounds less unsprung weight with Carbon ceramics and significantly lighter wheels vs Comp. Also, with a simple alignment it drives even better. I have driven these exact cars in the video extensively now. The front end of the M2CS is simply better, more agile more grip, no understeer vs the GT4. The GT4 rotates like a mid engined car but the oversteer of the M2CS is far more fun and helps you around corners, then the 100lb-ft +- increase in torque vs GT4 rockets you out. It's a joy. Both fantastic cars though.

@@Hapkin you can adjust the rollbars of the gt4 and turn-in will improve significantly. (And yes, gt4 will never be as "tailhappy" as m2) Carbon ceramics are no go for me due to cost, i rather spend that money on tires and fuel.

Compared to both of these cars, the GTS 4.0 is boring. I have driven all of them.

Yep the GT4 is just too hard riding for the road - can’t believe the reviewer here (very weirdly) even put the dampers into track mode - that’ll make you slower as the car skips over every joint and imperfection in the road surface. GTS is a much better riding and nicer to drive.

From my understanding, the 788m wheels that come on the M2 comp are forged but not as light as the 763m wheels on the m2 cs. Everything else you said is on point tho

@@FreeYSLM2 Yeah that's true. I have the M2 Comp and the wheels are forged but not as light as the ones on the CS

Also the structural carbon roof contributes to better steering feel and torsional rigidity.

@@Hapkin Not really. All it does is provide a lower center of gravity. It doesn't improve steering feel

@@Unicornpirateincorrect.

Tracking the Type S in late September!

Sweet! Sonoma?

Hey, the M2 CS is a track monster. I couldn't believe how much top end it has that can't be explored on the road. It's noticeably better than the M2CS due to software top end tune as well as carbon ceramics and adaptive suspension. (This is my car btw that @zygrene tested). Happy to answer questions.

Good to hear! I’m shy to pay the premium for the CS, but I’ve never driven a tuned or CS F87. I’d love to try the ceramics too. The 2NH caliper is a sore point for me. Prevents use of 18” wheels, has bad pad knockback, and has mediocre factory rotors. Are you running the OEM charge cooler and pipes? Any issues with heat management? Knockback on the calipers?

Yes, the long gearing definitely doesn't help. Short gears would make street driving much more exciting, I think.

Yes it also lacks torque low down. I just drove my friends GT4RS and it has the GT3 PDK gearing and is way more fun at low rpms and speeds than the GT4 which you have to rev out to 8k to enjoy.

Which tune did you go with?

S55 is definitely a lot laggier than N55, but the top end is addicting. It also sounds better to my ear. More of that straight six rasp.

N55 has more low end torque but way less mid and high end HP and Torque. S55 in CS above 3k is way more responsive, refined, buttery surge of torque vs N55. S55 in M2C is a bit spikey at low rpm which makes it difficult to modulate throttle in low speed corners. N55 has the best sound, no question. To me N55 is a nice intro BMW engine but it doesn't drive like a true M engine.

@@Zygrene thanks for your reply!

Lol I've thought about this many times. Maybe a 997.2 GT3 but the NSX still feels more special to me. But I recognize that I'm biased.

Next video: 2023 Roth IRA vs 2024 Porsche GT4 RS

@@Zygrene 😂😂😂🤣🤣 winner!

981 GT4 sounds better, and I like the look of it better than the 718 GT4 in profile and rear, but both aren't as much fun on the road vs M2CS haven driven all three of them. (I own the M2CS in the video).

If you are shopping for 100k cars you likely are outside ROTH contribution income limits. Backdoor + M2C + couple years of trackdays and consumables.

@@kyletice811Yes, that's the smart thing to do; one probably shouldn't be buying a 100K car if s/he still has not yet reached the front door Roth income limits (exceptions apply---having the excess cash). In the US, however, one would be surprised with how many are financing (50K to 100K USD cars) when they shouldn't.I think there is real value in Zygrene doing a video on the topic.

CCB's and structural (not just aesthetic M Performance) carbon roof makes the steering feel much better than. The M2C and hard/impossible to replicate on the M2C.

This specific spec is over 100k. Only 11 of them in the country in Hockenheim Silver, manual with CCB's and gold wheels.

What list would that be?

That's where you are wrong. The M2CS definitively has better steering. Glad Zygrene mentioned it. Notable improvement over the M2C.

@@Hapkin better steering than an M2C no doubt. Better than a Porsche? Highly unlikely but may depend on which model you put it up against. Macan?

@@martinocorbelli3042 nope. It's better. I just drove a Cayman GTS 4.0 as did the owner back to back with the M2CS. We both agreed that the M2CS has better steering. I have no problems saying the M2CS has worse steering compared to a Lotus, which I have on order for that very reason btw, but compared to the EPAS system on the Cayman the CS is better.

@@Hapkin ok, well I’ll have to take your word on that since I haven’t tried them back to back myself. I’m surprised but pleased to note BMW pulled their finger out on the M2 CS. It’s a shame they reserved such treatment for the top spec and most expensive version. They should have made the standard car steer like that IMO

@@martinocorbelli3042 💯. Comp built to a tighter price. CS they had some liberty to build on passion. Good news is that the Comp.can be modded to 99% of CS in feel but at the expense of NVH.

Paola’s envious.

The clue that he doesn’t fully understand what he’s doing is that he immediately puts the GT4 suspension into it’s harder mode. It’s widely recognised that even in its softer mode the GT4 suspension is too firm for any road that isn’t perfectly smooth and the car skips around losing grip.

@@neilturner6749 also talking about the car moving around because "ps4s tires can't handle this caliber of car, I'm just so used to driving it on Cup 2s" 🙄 The car was jumping around because the road wasn't smooth and the GT4 is stiff AF. Nothing to do with tires in the situation he's describing