The thing about Poseidon is, like Zeus, he has a LOT of kids. So one getting blinded or killed doesn’t really matter to him. What matters is some punk blinded *HIS* kid, then mocked him and told him his name, ip address, and social security number because the Cyclops couldn’t do anything about it. It’s not about protecting his child, it’s about protecting his reputation. If he let Odysseus off with harming his property with no repercussions, it would be bad for his image. Really narcissistic, but hey, it’s a Greek god so, what you gonna say. Athena knew that leaving a thread uncut would come back to bite Odysseus in the ass and he was being stubborn and stupid so she threw in the towel. Poseidon also (only in this animatic) referencing the child dropped from the wall is so interesting. He was like “you killed a defenseless infant who had done nothing against you, but you wouldn’t kill a person who had killed your men. You really suck.” And honestly… yeah. It was stupid to leave the cyclops alive.
I also thought maybe it cause with monsters if killed they will come back but if you maim them and not kill them they kinda stuck with the injury till someone actually does kill them
@@area52ron that, Poseidon in legends is not very present on his kids lives, but when they need him he is there to help. The whole thing comes from the humiliation of it, had odyseous killed the cyclops it would have been honorable, the cyclops would have been a threath that had to be brought down by the hero. Instead he was made the fool, cripled and left. Without intending it odyseous hurt the child of a god and mocked both by pretty much leaving a "You are not even worth to kill"
This is also why in the 1st cyclops he was more monster then human. Mircsy took elements of Poseidon to make the cyclops, so crown like crab for the sea and hooves like horses.
Did you notice that Poseidon lied when he said “unless you apologize for my son’s pain and all his cries” because the point of the song is “Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves” in other words, even if he apologized, it didn’t matter. Also to the gods, sparing monsters to them is stupid and pointless and especially shameful to the monster. It’s one thing if they killed the Cyclops. It was a battle, and they came out on top. But with him blinded and still living, he’s now living in shame instead of being given the honor of dying to one that was able to defeat him. To some Greeks the shame of defeat is just as bad if not worse than ending of a life in honorable combat.
Poseidon wasn't lying when he said he would spare them if Odysseus apologized. It's just that Odysseus gave him a sad excuse on why he blinded polyphemus. Imo if Odysseus added a "I'm so sorry for everything we've done to your son" to his sentence then I think poseidon would've spared them.
@@nekodecim2363 nope, he did lie about it. Poseidon chose to kill them at the start of the song regardless. That’s quite literally what it’s talking about with the line: “The line between Naivety and Hopefulness is almost invisible.” It’s essentially Poseidon saying “you’re stupid to have thought words would persuade me.” Now, yes, Odysseus’ apology is more of excuses, but a genuine apology would not have gotten him anywhere regardless if you’re paying attention to what Poseidon’s been saying all along. There was never any mercy for anyone in Odysseus’ crew, only death.
@@Romanj12 Those excuses are literally a Greek apology. Our modern concept of an apology is taken from the Greek term "apologia" which is a reasoned defense of ones actions to explain why they were justified. "Oops sorry I won't do it again" was looked down on even more back then than it is now. And even just looking at all of Poseidon's other lines indicates he never intended to let Odysseus or his crew live. "I'm left without a choice and without a doubt, I gotta make you bleed I need to see you drown." "You fight to save lives but won't kill and don't get the job done." "You are far too nice, mercy has a price." "Unlike you I've got no mercy to give." "It is finally time to say goodbye, today you die." So it seems either way Poseidon did lie. It's just whether he lied once about intending to spare them, or lied throughout the entire rest of the song about intending to kill them.
Is not that the Greek gods don’t like when soldiers spare people, Athena knew the consequences of letting Polyphemus live she knew that he would pray to his father Poseidon to avenge him, and once that happened Poseidon would be duty bound to seek revenge, in fairness to Poseidon he gave Odysseus a chance but instead of telling him that he was sorry Ody just gave his reasoning for blinding the cyclops not a proper apology, so Poseidon took that a bit personally.
The English word "apology" comes from Greek roots apo + logos, which can be more direcly translated as "story of reason" or "reasonable explanation", which means that as a Greek, Odysseus very much DID apologise to the best of his ability, but as Poseidon himself said: "I want to see you bleed, I need to make your drown, but first..." - the god of the ocean isn't known as the most capricious and vengeful of all olympians for nothing.
Honestly kind of Athenas fault too cause if she had just TOLD him that I'm pretty sure he would do it without a heartbeat the only reason he spared him was because he was tired and in a bad mind place after losing a childhood friend.
Oh good, you know the horse connection! (It makes this animatic risky for first time reactors-those who don’t know the horse association get super distracted by being confused as to why he’s a horse, and it gets in the way of the impact… but if you DO know Poseidon is also god of horses, or are willing to just roll with it, it makes it *extra cool and terrifying*. I love this animatic so much and was so thrilled that AnniFlamma incorporated the horse element) Ruthlessness is a favorite among a lot of people in the fandom, it’s just SUCH a banger of a song. Steven Rodriguez does killer vocals. I didn’t expect rock star Poseidon but it works *so well.* Also: you’re picking up on this musical’s themes, yes. The “ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves” is part of the musical’s thesis in a way (along with “when does a man become a monster” as a central question). Did the Greek gods actually have strong opinions around ruthlessness in the myths? Ehhhh, not sure, but mercy sure wasn’t a central value.
Poseidon isnt saying he's weak for letting the cyclops live. he's saying all the deaths that will now follow are Odysseus's fault because not only did he let him live he revealed him name in gloating. if he had killed then none of this would have happened
Ruthlessness is one of my favorite songs from this musical, and AnniFlamma does such a good job with the animatic. I love the way she shows the crew struggling in the water...it always gives me goosebumps! The next saga is nice (Wouldn't You Like is another fave of mine), though I admit my favorite saga is the one AFTER that. I'm loving your reactions so far, it's always fun to watch people experience ALL the emotions during this musical, hehe.
Woot! Love Anni's Ruthlessness! A few things. Poseidon is the god of horses because he made them in a contest against Athena to decide who would be the patron god of Athens. Obviously Athena won, and Wet Hades has been salty about it ever since. So it's fitting he would have beef with Athena's chosen champions. He's also the father of a few horse cchildren. Second, to leave an enemy crippled and alive is an absolute insult to them and their house. Athena was trying to prevent Odysseus from being found out as the person who blinded the Cyclope because she knew who his father was. Poseidon is pissed because Ody essentially came in, from his pov violated the terms of hospitality, crippled his kid, stopped there because he was seen as a serious threat, gave a high and mighty lecture, and then sailed off leaving his blinded opponent to potentially suffer and starve slowly to death. Ody spat in the face of acceptable war tactics and insulted Poseidon's son and by addition Poseidon himself. Ody getting the bricks kicked out of him was inevitable. 😅
May I ask how Odysseus violated the terms of hospitality? I always thought after introducing themselves as travelers the moment they met the cyclops, then offering wine in exchange for the sheep was Ody trying to establish Xenia. I see the cyclops accepting the trade and asking for his guest's name as agreeing to be their host before attempting to kill them. I'm not trying to argue or anything. I'm just curious about your reasoning behind that one thing.
And in the original Odyssey, Poseidon immediately calls the whole thing off once he learns it was actually Polyphemus who broke every single rule of hospitality and then lied to him about it. Demanding names without introducing himself first, imprisoning, killing and EATING men who should have been protected by guest right. Whether Polyphemus being a lying PoS who thinks he's exempt from rules and laws evene the gods follow has an effect of how the overarching conflict resolves in Epic, remains to be seen. He's certainly broken the rules of hospitality just as much if not more here.
@@jlablue3401 No you're correct. In the original Polythemus lies about the incident. In this version however it's trickier. Thieves aren't protected by the rules of hospitality, and Ody and his men were in fact there to steal. Let's not pretend a bunch of tame sheep and food in a cave got there from magic. Ody offered a trade for the sheep, after he had killed it. Trading gifts have to be of equal value and given freely. Poly does drink the wine which could be considered him accepting the gift and thus accepting them as guest. But Ody did poison it before Polythemus had even really done anything. So it may not count. Really I'm not sure which how Jay will chose to resolve this issue. Heck I'm curious if he's going to bring in the whole Oar/Shovel quest or just end it with Ody getting home.
@@akaittou Oh that's really cool! I didn't know Poseidon called everything off in the original when he got the whole story! I haven't read the whole thing all the way through. I'm only familiar with parts of it.
@@takeyiatwitty2216 Wild sheep are endemic to the Mediterranean area, so there's no reason Odysseus and his crew would have had reason to think they were anything else. I'd even argue the start of Polyphemus makes it pretty clear they believe the sheep to be wild - why else would they have opened up with a hunting bow shot? That's not how you deal with domesticated cattle. Ragerdless, you're right that it does potentially make the situation a bit less clear in Epic, though by accepting the wine as compensation Polyphemus would still have established Ody et al as not thieves but guests, and reneging on his end was a breach of the rules. Yes, the lotus makes it a little iffy, but it speficially was a drug and not poison, and as such not really all that different from the wine being more potent than expected.
Sparing the cyclops is like a hero not finishing his job not killing a monster. Greek myth are like that and from what I remember Odysseus is the first or only hero in the myth who choose to spare a monster
Horses are commonly associated with the sea because the foam from waves hitting the shore resembles the manes of a herd of horses running through the plains.
Here are two key points to explain the mercy vs. killing moral dilemma in "The Iliad": Historical Context: We need to understand the time period in which "The Iliad" was written and adjust our moral viewpoints accordingly. In Greek society, pragmatism was highly valued for leaders. In ancient warfare, violence such as raiding, sacking, and razing was a normal reality. Mercy was a luxercy that didnt really apply during war time. Gods and Heroes: Both gods and their children (heroes and monsters) fought constantly, usually ending with either the hero killing the monster or vice versa. This is the structure of greek storytelling. "The Iliad" however is special because it breaks this tradition by having Odysseus spare the Cyclops. This act highlights Odysseus's uniqueness and foreshadows the heavy punishment he will face later in the story.
And THATS why Athena was 200% correct in telling Odessus to kill the cyclops! But he instead doxed his name and address to the son of the god of the sea... Odessus's mercy and pride killed more than 500 of his men.
Well, if she didn't goat him for it, he never would have doxed himself and nothing would have happened either, so killing the Cyclops wasn't the only solution. He just let his pride do the talking.
@@Valfara770 I wouldn't really call it pride so much as grief. Granted that's just my interpretation, but I'm also fairly confident Jorge said Ody giving his little speech was driven by grief too. But take that with a grain of salt because I can't actually prove he said that. Edit: Shouldn't have tagged you in this, sorry. I should have just responded to the original comment.
One must not apply current moral values to the ones from ancient Greece. This is not as relevant yet but it's good to keep in mind for the future that things like respect and hospitality are of far greater importance, for instance, than kindness and compassion in Greek mythology. But I think the line that best sets what the theme being explored here is from the Horse and the Infant: "The blood in your hands is something you won't loose, all you can choose is whose". It explores the question of whether mercy and kindness are the approach one should take, or whether one should be ruthless in their approach to problems to make sure they don't come back to haunt you. I think by now you can fairly well tell what side the gods stand on in that debate.
Great reaction! For the Circe Saga I recommend Gigi for Puppeteer, Ximena Natzel for Wouldn’t You Like, AnniFlamma for Done For, and AnniFlamma for There Are Other Ways.
Yeees, I love this animatic for the song! Gigi's animatic is amazing too, but I personally really like how AnniFlamma used the horses - and made them absolutely terrifying. Gods often don't care that much about their kids, so killing the Cyclops in battle wouldn't be too bad. But since he let him live he could pray to Poseidon and he kind of has to set an example. Also, did you notice that Odysseus didn't really apologize? (not that it'd have made much difference if he did, but it's kind of cocky to give such a non-apology to a god)
The English word "apology" comes from Greek roots apo + logos, which can be more direcly translated as "story of reason" or "reasonable explanation", which means that as a Greek, Odysseus very much DID apologise to the best of his ability, but as Poseidon himself said: "I want to see you bleed, I need to make your drown, but first..." - the god of the ocean isn't known as the most capricious and vengeful of all olympians for nothing.
There are a few other animatics of this particular song. In an interesting thing about this version of him. Is even though nothing else changes with the song it’s just the visuals you must get the sense that Poseidon is disgusted with the fact that Odysseus just does not listen. He keeps trying to tell him something, But the biggest flaw about Odysseus is that he is too smart for his own good.
Poseidon is voiced by Steven Rodriguez. Btw you should definitely watch Gigi's animatics for Puppeteer (1st song in the next saga) and There are other ways (4th song in the next saga). They are the best imo
The thing is, the gods are animate incarnation of inanimate concepts. Athena is tactics so letting polphemus live didn't work for her and posiden is the ocean. It's kill or be killed.
600 men, 12 ships, so around 50 each ship with the loss of the ones the cyclops killed (probably crew of Ody's own ship) plus now loss of eleven whole ships (so around 550 men total) 43 men left sounds about right. An absolute massive loss of his men, just decimated
Keep your friends Close had that theme hidden in it too. The wind god kept telling him sometimes killing is necessary. All he would have had to do was kill three or four of his own crew members who first heard treasure and the other 595 men would have made it home right then.
reason these god angry not because Ody spared Cylope but consequence from it it not about be weak for Arthena she know that Cylope is Posidon son so she try to tell Ody that he still a treat but Ody shut her down then outright refuse her and let his emotion control his action so she so angry and disappoint in him for Psidon Greek god is not omnipotent all knowing if Ody not spared Cylope Posidon will never know who kill his son sothat why he said Odycan avoid all this if Ody kill his son in summary Arthena is right all along
Oh trust me it's gets better the callbacks are crazy and become very big the farther you get in EPIC like omg thunder saga is stuffed full of callbacks from basically every other saga! I can't wait for you to watch the rest
