Poverty and Palm Oil are Driving Deforestation in Indonesia 

Maybe poverty is desired by capitalism so they have to work on the plantations.

my dad once went to Aceh for work for a month. It was stressful, because Aceh ppls were famous for laziness (they wont go office before 10am), stubborn, close-minded (due to religion believes they hold tight), and local government has zero effort. they event refuse change, and my dad work was in vain.

@@Violalulu what was your dad purpose going to aceh ? It's better that u said the context clearly so we know what is really happened.

@@Violalulu context? It seems as if you trying to portray something here but fail to provide proper context.

@@mantabsekali920 It's true, the way you practice your religion is the problem.

@@shukriramlee nah the religion is the problem 😂

Setau sy waktu sy di aceh sy dapat cerita mengenai salah satu alasan dulu Dinminimi melakukam teror di pegunungan aceh setelah aceh dalam kondisi damai adalah ketimpangan yg jauh antara rakyat dn pejabat.

They really are

lazy goverment

Says a man that is sitting in an office that probably isn't elected. It's disgusting calling his own people lazy, when Clearly the odds are stacked against them. I am lucky enough to be born in a medium income family, in a medium sized city. But luckily the poor here can live comfortably and has the means to get out of poverty, and it really is about being lazy or not.

Illegal? You think people go burn the rain forest down, cut all the trees and turn the place in a plantation illegally..??? Use common sense. Not DUHHHH!

Indonesia is disgustingly corrupt. You should check out the Act of Killing, it is about the genocidal military coup of Indonesia which took place in the 1960s with the backing of the western powers. It killed at least 2 million people, and is the origin of Indonesia's corruption.

LOL

kalau pernah main ke aceh, seminggu aja, kita bakal tahu kalau banyak dari orang aceh itu malas kok.

How about environment

I feel the same. The government is the one to blame. Individuals can only do so much.

@@michelledelfiana9105 this!!! There's so much the people could do. Especially in a nation that is conveniently (for those in power) centralized. I have heard so many stories from people, where the government takes their lands away, or forcefully get them to sell their lands at low prices... so low that their produce pays more then the actual cost of land. It's disappointing really. If only the government would appreciate using locals as workers and train them to work, but I guess the government is to lazy even for that.

They only care about their pockets. Not the people.

They are otherwise they'd be rich

@@WallyTony you should know that many diligent people are still poor

Because of that 🐷 corrupt politician that they are poor...

@@WallyTony such an idiotic statement

Massive deforestation was never an economic necessity. None of this ever needed to happen. The govt of Indonesia needs to get out of the business of liquidating forests. Forest liquidation and forest conversion are the Indonesian national economic policies that created this ecological horror. The end of Indonesia's forests will happen in our lifetimes if the Indonesian govt doesn't reverse it's policies. We've heard it all before. Reforms are coming. Yet they never do and that's because the Indonesian govt has not changed it's economic development practices, namely liquidating forests and converting them.into expanses of pulp and palm oil plantations

Western NGO need money

Aduh gimana sih, ga ngapain ngomongin itu kalau itu juga ga ngaruh ke kehidupan warga disana. Poin video ini "nih masih pada miskin orang aceh tamiang, selama ini ngapain aja pemerintah lsm swasta ? Janji2 doang halah"

@@mantabsekali920 makasih atas jawabannya bang. Inilah mengapa VICE harus membahas solusi. Apa saja langkah yg sudah dilakukan pemerintah, LSM, perusahaan, dll? Sebenarnya ada banyak, tp masalahnya masih besar dan perlu kolaborasi yg berkelanjutan. Untungnya kolaborasi ini sudah dimulai - tapi jelas perlu jauh lebih kuat. Apa lagi yg perlu dilakukan untuk membantu masyarakat lokal? Tidak membantu jurnalis hanya menunjukkan masalah, tanpa membahas solusi dan memeriksa upaya yang sedang berlangsung.

@@BorneoAgent kan udah di video ada testimoni sama kepala desa, ya udah itu salah satu solusi yang ditawarkan makanya di masukin ke video, nah sampe sini aja tugas jurnalis itu kalo mau kelanjutannya ya diserahkan sama pemerintah, lsm, dan swasta yang terkait. Kalo jurnalis juga ikut menindak swasta atau turun berpartisipasi langsung dengan lsm ya jadi bias dong liputannya.

@@mantabsekali920 Solusi yg ditawarkan oleh kepala desa adalah contoh sempurna bang. Jadi kenapa VICE tidak menyebutkan atau memeriksa upaya yg telah dilakukan oleh pemerintah dan LSM terkait solusi spesifik dari kepala desa? Ada pelajaran atau lessons learned yg bisa diambil dari upaya2 ini - apa yg berhasil, apa yg tidak berhasil, apa yg membutuhkan lebih banyak dukungan dan sumber daya. Sebaliknya mereka tidak menyebutkan upaya apa pun. Saya pikir ini dengan sengaja. Saya setuju dengan bang setiap orang pasti punya bias masing2 - inilah kenapa penting jurnalis mewawancarai lebih banyak pemangku kepentingan. Jika tidak, pemirsa seperti kita hanya dapat gambaran yg tidak lengkap.

@@BorneoAgent pemerintah kan udah diwawancara trus mereka bilang salah dari warga di aceh tamiang yang malas. Ya udah mau siapa lagi yang diwawancara ? PTPN nya ? Lsm ? Ini berdua mah cuma nunggu dari pemerintah karena emang cuma pemerintah yang paling bisa bantu warga disana. Kalo saya sebagai pemirsa liat video ini sudah cukup memadai untuk menggambarkan situasi warga disana dan bagaimana pemerintah setempat menangani masalah warganya. Kalopun emang ada kinerja pemerintah lalu kenapa mereka malah menjawab seperti di video harusmya mereka menjawab upaya2 yang telah mereka buat dong.

The answer is pretty simple. For smallholders with land less than 5 hectare, it is more profitable to grow other crops than palm oil. Growing palm oil needs a lot of investment and other forms of capital and it was not easy for these people with limited resources. Zulkifli said it himself, he only earns 300 thousand rupiah per month from palm oil cultivation, they cannot compete with the efficiency of large companies with thousands of hectares. Growing other crops meanwhile, needs only small portion of land and less effort, thus less costs. However, many of these small holders have minimum technical know how on growing other crops as they lived most of their lives knowing only how to grow palm oil (checkout the indonesian cultures of “latah” in the palm oil industry expansion during the 70s-90s). At the same time, the productivity of palm oil for most of these farmers are also declining because most of the palm oil trees that they owned are now in average older than 20 years old which is beyond their productive phase. Because of this they have to replant, however replanting also causing problem, the farmers have to wait for 4 years or so before they could finally harvest the palm oil. What are they going to do during this 4 years? They are poor, not very well educated, and have been relying on palm oil for most of their lives. The most logical thing to do is opening up a new land to cultivate more palm oil by cutting down trees or burning the forests. Growing up other crops indeed going to help the farmers. With less land needed and more profitable outcome for the farmer, cultivation of other crops could help reducing deforestation and better the socio economic condition of the people. But these people need help, education, infrastructure, technological know how and etc which is something that can be provided by the gov or ngo or even other palm oil companies if they ever care about the environment or these people. This video does not necessarily talk about corruption but it tells us about the structural discrimination by the gov towards these farmer. Tengku's responses correspond with the "lazy native" myth theory by Husein Alatas about the southeast asian society. Back then, the dutch colonizer used this concept to strengthen colonial ideology and capitalism in the mind of the natives. This colonial ideology survived into the post colonial world of modern Indonesia. Governments tend to think that the natives are lazy and therefore legitimize to neglect most rural area people with their needs and focus the state budget on something else that they think to be much more productive instead. The importance of this bit of interview I think is to show how Indonesian hasn't really moved on from many colonial ideologies even after more than 70 years of independence, and how these concepts are still embedded in the structure of the society and have real impact on how the society views themself and therefore how they function. Deforestation does cause the flooding, you can read it yourself on the internet, there are literally tons of academic journals and articles about it, just read. You said it yourself that palm oil is cheap because of the high productivity but at what cost? Again these small farmers cannot compete with that. At first, yes they can compete, but now with the expansion of large companies they no longer have a chance. I agree Palm oil is not to blame, but human greed and ignorance, such as by saying any video related to palm oil as a propaganda piece without giving any relevance, context or supporting argument is to blame.

@@rizkymaulanayanuar9357 I learned so much from reading your comment. Thanks.

Yap setuju. Petani2 dengan lahan kecil itu juga biasa jual hasil panen ke "toke" dengan harga yang semaunya. Dari "toke" ini baru dijual lagi ke perkebunan/pabrik. Jadi memang ada persaingan yg tidak sehat. Sangat khawatir jika masih banyak kawan2 yg lain menyalahkan sawit sebagai penyebab masalah lahan secara mutlak belakangan ini. Jawaban kalian 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

@@rizkymaulanayanuar9357 So informative! ☺ Thankyou!! 👍🏽

@@rizkymaulanayanuar9357 thanks for the insight.

Apakah vice adalah antek2 asing ? Ya iyalah wkwk

Absolutely!

that's going to change nothing imo

Eropa sudah lebih dulu menimbang pohon di tanami bunga matahari dan kedelai om,Eropa ingin Indonesia jadinhutan saja gak boleh maju ,1 ha sawit menghasilkan 1 ton CPO,5 ha lahan menghasilkan 1 ton minyak kedelai jauh ,berp juta hektar di Eropa yg sudah di tebang hutanya om

@@lugradura1662 tapi banyak yang melakukan ilegal logging yang dibiarkan oleh pemerintah

Cashier owning land - NIL , Farmer - 5 Hectare. Something is very wrong if he can only Panen 1/month. and getting that amount. Need to look at how he maintain his farm?. Of course Goverment help/responsibility to infrastructure is paramount.

Kenapa(why)?

Samaaaa ...

Pls come to Nigeria it way worst

​@@royerlle mono

Pada kenyang dan pada jadi komisaris tuh