Part 2! Who knew than a power locks circuit on an old beater Toyota would be so fun to diagnose? After a bit of a mental detour we finally pinpoint the root cause of the power locks ghost :) Enjoy! Ivan
Troubleshooting these can be a lesson in humility. With chips and transistors involved, simple resistor analysis doesn't often lead to solutions. Good for you, to show the perseverance needed to solve this problem, with a characteristic 'no parts' solution!
Haha I need some sleep too, Cuba! All this rain is causing so many weird electrical issues right now...I've had every evening booked this week with pretty cool case studies!! ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics well, I was close. I really thought it would be more of a leak though, but close enough. Seeing the voltage on the scope makes all the difference! I'm so thankful to have been exposed to this insight! GREAT video!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics - Gotta love a little moisture mixed with road salt! I had a bunch of issues last year around this time with my '93 940 - turn on the high beams or fog lights, and the engine would stall! Turned out to just be a REAL bad ground on the right side headlight/foglight assembly. Ran a new ground, and haven't had an issue since. I still can't explain why it killed the engine. Must've been pulling down voltage for spark or injector pulse ...
Bravo Ivan!!!! Nice detective work. And I agree step away from a problem come back with a clear head and give it another shot. Great case study to start the new year!!!!
Enjoying the component level diagnostics. Scary though how many times something like this could spiral financially in the wrong hands.... Great work thanks for taking us along!
Nice job Ivan. Ya stuck with it and tracked the circuit down to the green crusties in a connector. Patience and perseverance pays off. A job well done. Way to stick with it Ivan! A Job well done 👍
I appreciate your attention to detail and never giving up until you answer your own questions. I do not miss a video thanks for your time and knowledge Bill from LI NY
Ivan, Great video, case study and fix! I thought it would be in the module - and that you'd fix that. Great example for using the scope. God bless Paul
Nice one Ivan! It does surprise me even though I guess it shouldn't that they would put such a high impedance control circuit in an environment like a car.
Your diagnostic procedure is so thorough. I work on riding lawn mores that doesn't have 1/10 of the wiring that a car has and i still get stumped. Enjoy you videos.
Glad you kept at it! I worked on a 05 Kia Sedona that had similar problems, including a left side pw that would go down by itself at times. I suspected the after market alarm was causing the PL issue on mine, but was proven wrong in the exact same way ( what you found.. I won't give it away :) ) What I will say is that mine took a lot more to repair than yours did... including several trips to the junkyard to source parts.
Well done, Ivan. It pays to be persistent. Sometimes you see that something isn't just right but you move on expecting something more meaningful only to return to the first suspect area.
A very nice job of 'component level diagnostics'; great to see this level of "sussing out" circuitry. It's something how a "wee bit 'o fungi" managed to lock your client out of their vehicle. I've had great results with DeOxit, MG Chemicals Electronics Contact Cleaner works well, too. Neither seems to attack plastics, and are gentle enough to use on potentiometers, and even microswitches. Signed, "a fellow insomniac" (Hammersley Fork Chapter)
Deja vu the Toyota Highlander with the green crusties. Bought one of those headlamps for Christmas, figured you were onto something there...best damn thing since sliced bread for old codgers with failing eye sight! Nice diag Ivan.Cheers
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics You are too young to remember the time before everything including TV's was non disposable. Of course that was the time of vacuum tubes which were easy to swap.
Another well learned lesson!! Not just the most obvious door switches! Not just the module, itself!! Not just the sensitive electronic parts on the circuit boards, within the module!! This problem existed in an out of sight, hard to reach, unprotected connection point, that 99% of the people don't even know existed!! You likely chased down the wire path, and found the connector, and knew what it was!! Is the odd connector point even on the wiring diagrams? There is no map to show the location of connectors, even tho their existence is shown in a diagram, you still have to know where to go look. That could have taken someone down the path to the parts cannon, of the system SELF DESTRUCT BUTTON!! You did say that he was ok with completely disabling the power lock system! And all it took to fix it, was some deoxit, and some persistence!! P.S. I have neither deoxit, nor persistence!! Lol
And someone motivated enough with some experience and understanding of electronics/electrical systems. That is not a requirement in ASE courses if I'm correct. They focus on mechanics vs. electronics backgrounds which vehicles used to be built upon but now, you need an electronics expert and a good focus on mechanical expertise. BOTH, not just one to efficiently and accurately repair today's vehicles. In the field, I rarely see an automotive shop with their mechanics using multi-meters....only the DTC code scanners.
You were named correctly, you never give up. I hate electrical stuff, I prefer the heavy line repairs. Wished you were on the west coast, I would send all my electrical stuff your way.
Amazing fix! At one point I thoug mmm... the owner does never lock up the car (as you said Ivan) he just don't want to leave the keys inside and get them locked up... my sense of lazyness told me right away rermove the doors lock module and throw it away and tell the client to manually operate the doors locks but naah... it is way more interesting to find out how this door lock system works and what is the actual problem! Thank you for this series Ivan!
Wow I was totally wrong on this one! In the first vid I was convinced it was a magic box (module) problem. In this one, I would've sworn that big resistor was the issue - I'd have removed it and soldered in a new one for nothing! Then I'd have been boiling mad when I found out I did all of that for nothing! Didn't even think about that circuit being pulled down - I guess because it's not a sensor, my brain just couldn't see that possibility. Never would've thought a bad connection & cross voltage would cause something like this. This was a GREAT 2-video series here! I remember long ago getting slid by a motorcycle that had turn signal issues. After HOURS of troubleshooting some really strange issues, I found that the turn signal element of the 1157 bulb had broken off and fused itself to the running light element inside the bulb! I don't remember exactly what the issues were, but I remember that they defied explanation, and I had never seen a failure mode like that before, and I haven't seen it since! Took me a LONG time to figure that one out - was SUPER frustrating. Sometimes just a quick visual of all the components is the best course of action. GREAT stuff Ivan!! Loved this one!! Time for me to buy some DeoxIT ... 👍👍 EDIT: I remember bits of what was happening on that bike now - the front 2 running lights, & right rear would blink at the same time (like hazards) with the left signal activated, but the signal elements up front wouldn't light (problem bulb was in the left rear I believe). Then with the signal off, the turn signal elements in the other 3 bulbs would light up BRIGHT, along with both instrument cluster indicators. It was an odd one, for sure!
Before changing a resistor, check its value with a meter against its color code. In most cases, if within 20% of the marked value, it's OK. True you might have to lift one leg of a resistor to get the true reading.
If you cut the wire at the module it would have went up to voltage then you could work backwards to find the crusty but I would not have thought the corrosion would make that strong of a drop good video look forward to the next
When you was testing the resisters in the module even though you were not pressing any buttons you must have had some current flow to gave the drop in voltage accross them. Because as you know...no current flow=no voltage drop....all down to the green crustys in that conecter... Good find...
TGsrao1989 that Geo/Toyota was spared from "cash for clunkers", the north east salt disease, and a ticking time clock, now Ivan saved it from THE BIG GREEN BLOB!! That's one lucky car!! It's still going, and the company that marketed it is long gone!! Should have been the other way around!!
Wow very good analysis, since the car is so old the rubber trims could be deteriorated causing water intrusion mix that with road salt spray and you have good conductance between pins that shouldn't be connected. Every time I plug in my block heater I need to wipe the plug clean or it trips the gfi outlet. Merry Christmas and happy New year
Looks like battery voltage is run through the resistors out to the pins. But also, the chip puts a voltage, maybe 5v or the 6.7 (or there's a small leakage current through the chip) on the pin through a resistor to the pin. Normal operation would see both voltages pulled to ground when the switch is closed. So the unlock circuit is showing current flow with the short causing a voltage divider till the voltage division drops to near the threshold for the chip to sense being pulled down. In hindsight, the 4.9v across the unlock pin shows this delicate balance. It's good to see in side the box.
Those old Corolla slash prisms were built in Sumi California. Back in the days of the good old go Chevrolet / Toyota collaboration. You can buy them a lot cheaper than the Corolla and there wasn't that many ACDelco Parts on it anyway. Win-win
Love the no parts required videos. I have a degree in Electronic Technology. I forgot what kind of degree you have. Guessing Eletrical Engineering. Keep up the cool stuff Motoyam
Thanks Richard! Got plenty of the "no parts required" videos coming up :) I studied Engineering Physics, and my favorite subjects were Electricity and Magnetism and electrical circuits :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics By the way, it's megohms, not mega-ohms! www.nist.gov/pml/nist-guide-si-chapter-9-rules-and-style-conventions-spelling-unit-names
You definitely have a problem with corrosion in the Northeast and Midwest. Corrosion was one thing taught at seminars I used to attend, however, in Southern California I sometimes found non corrosive wiring problems, but usually was a component problem. Still, this was a great training video WITH a live intermittent problem ! ! Great Repair!
All this rain this past year has been bringing in some really interesting case studies! I had three good ones just this past week....and one lined up for tomorrow!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Fantastic job! Keep the videos coming! I had a "U1000" code on my 06 Nissan Frontier at the 4X4 module earlier this year. The 4WD worked. Watching the information to the ECM, I could see the changes on my Matco MaxMe and the Pico was showing Can Hi and Can Lo working. Hmmmmm. Disconnected the module board from the harness connector. Nothing seen visually, no burned parts or broken printed circuit. Cleaned connector and board contacts, no more problem. No green crusties, possibly a film or glaze from (?). Checked it last week, no codes all modules. I've seen the "film" cause a problem in the past at work before I retired. Having an automotive and lightweight electronic tech backgrounds has helped in 29 years. Keep up the good work and diagnosing Ivan!
98 Saturn I had locked the front doors on me twice with key in ignition . Second time back doors where locked, had to hammer out the lock after I kicked my door to the garage to get to my tools.(car was running) pulled the dam fuse that's how I fixed it.Bad start to my morning.
good tracing work, but one of the first things, "close visual inspection" of all traces and solder joints, followed by "resistor color code" and test resistance beware of parallel components, and integrated circuits, you may have to remove one leg of said devices. secondly check electrolytic capacitors and then ceramic disc/others. haven't watched past 7:49 yet, but it's not uncommon for the "silly" miniaturized IC's to fault.... especially the encapsulated "vertical" off board one in the coarse black coating......
Hi Ivan.....with the benefit of hindsight would you approach this diagnostic in a different manner?....what i had in mind would be for instance to work from the module before stripping the doors.Maybe isolate the door switches from as near to the module as possible and test each one for correct operation.....also testing the module powers and grounds as per normal.If i can i prefer to break up a circuit into areas i can test isolate and move on from.......having said that you seem to get to the bottom of more issues than i do so maybe i am just blowing hot air lol....happy new year to you!
it's nearly always the door harness flex points or poor seal at the door harness to "body pass-through connectors" why do i say that, LONG ago, they ran the wires though and placed the connectors inside UPHILL above 3" or so, but that didn't stop water migration inside the stranded wires... somehow, it's all backslid like 30 years+ of hard work and real world learning! aka collegiate trained sheeple with ZERO hands on real world training nor experience... or is it planned obsolescence, driven by shysters, bean-counters and stooges. they try t stifle and snuff me down, they more they do, the more they LOSE out and earth rebels.
My original thought was to start at the module, and that in hindsight may have saved some time. Pretty much just as easy to peel off the door panel as remove the glove box. The entire car actually comes apart very easily lol
Dealing with the same issue right now. Only difference is it also activates and deactivates the horn, door locks, parking lights all at the same time.Does it constantly non stop while driving or with ignition off. Had to pull the fuse before it killed my battery when parked. Weekend project. 1995 Toyota Camry. I'd appreciate a tip if you have one. Just pulling out the one dome light fuse stopped the issue until I can have time.
a hosed driver door harness, who'd have guessed (first place I'd have looked IRL) been there done that multiple hundreds of times ;) I've said it in past comments and other channels. if it helped or not, who knows ;P
The circuit is dropping 11.4-4.9 v across the resistor that's 6.5v over 600 ohms which is only 0.010 A. A very slight draw and it only recently got that big since the phantom lock cycling only recently started. If the phantom cycling had become persistent then the motor operation would have been a significant draw. The situation was that the voltage on the pin was just hovering around 5v, below which it would draw from the chip's pin 5v, enough current draw would activate the transistor which controlled the unlock relay.
Aloha Dr Ivan..anotha awesome video..i have a question Ivan..my 2008 Nissan Altima’s head gasket blew..i called this guy and he said Nissan don’t have gaskets and i need to buy a new Engine for $1,200 plus his Labor of $800..do these cars really don’t have gaskets pls and what shall i do..looking fwd to hear from you..be safe and Aloha🤙
Altima has a gasket, what you need is a new mechanic. There are very few honest folks in mechanics these days, Ivan and I are rare examples. Be sure the fans work, or you will have the same issue again. All the usual stuff applies, no cracks, flat surface, new bolts, and a decent mechanic will check all of these items. Your "Parts changer" "Mechanic" should not be involved in any of this.
I must admit that over all of the "case studies" videos and many other diagnosing videos it seems to be that "automotive wiring" and "terminators" or plugs/connectors are usually the problem in just about 70% of what I have viewed so far. By that it seems, NO parts needed, just a simple wire repair or terminator cleaning and dielectric treatments. It seems to be such a massive concern if this is happening along the entire "rust belt" that the auto makers need to re-think how they design and provide their customers with "reliable" wiring systems. This issue isn't likely as bad in dry areas of the USA however, give it enough time and the same will result even in the lower states. This is especially true with all low voltage circuits such as 5v or low current circuits that simply send impulse signals to "modules". Also, it appears that module placement needs to be centralized in vehicles to eliminate the tear down process and extreme labor needed to diagnose them. You would think the auto makers would figure out a way to simply mount all modules in a "vault" located centrally to the vehicle so any need to diagnose modules would be in one place vs. 15 or 20 places and in extremely bad locations subject to heat, road hazards, weather etc. Take note how a residence is wired, they have circuit breakers in one central location...can you imagine having them spread throughout the entire residence !! One other thing I believe is necessary when diagnosing vehicles. A battery maintainer that is connected to the vehicle battery as the first task. Many of these repairs require doors, hoods, truck lifts etc. to be open and courtesy lights are on including the ignition key to on etc. At some point, the battery gets drained and usually never is brought up to the fully charged state when the job is done. I'm no engineer but it seems that 12.6 volts would be best vs. 11.2 for example when diagnosing electronics designed to run on 12.6+ volts. I've seen a few vehicles that are super sensitive to lower voltages and cause problems just because the system voltage is not "perfect".
970k ohm is to low low resistance for me for just wires. At meter voltage should be 40+ meg ohm. As soon as I seen condition of door lock module I thought not likely the fault. Then when you were probing the door lock module you had me thinking bad pull up resistor (forgot about bad resistance measurement above lol) Still had my notion of drive feeding into signal. while you had diagram up i was looking for door connectors seen them there and that is where you went.
Agreed. But this is a Car. Toyota could have used something like 300 mA control current. Until the crusties exceed 40 Ohm resistance or locks would work and you can find the crusty connector by smelling it (3,6W) or with a amp clamp. Anything in a car body workign with a few mA control current is a no no.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thanks. Nope only casual for my self and friends don't have any scan tools so limited to what I can do. I have oscilloscope as I use it in electronics. Most cars are around year 2000 here so not too complicated anyway. Done work experience as Auto sparky like 15 years ago was told I am too picky because I didn't think twisting wire and taping is a acceptable repair on the exterior of vehicle. Diagnostics is just what I do needed for electronics repair and computer repair.
@@jannepo control/drive amps will be tens of amps. The input signal current through the pull up resisters is 0.46ma when the lock or unlock position of the switch is toggled if Ivan did not miss quote the pull up resister been 26kOhm. Some cars the switch directly drives the lock motors. be a design you would like.
@@ratbag359 Yes those sometimes do. We can use 1 mA currents to drive things, but that is asking for trouble. Water, crusties salty wind from the sea and your car starts to act up, unless all those 1 mA controls are not humidity protected shielded cable.. Which is always way too expensive for automotive industry. When you do not have a need to conserve power, use it! :D
You can also get CRC Electronics Cleaner at any auto parts store: good for automotive connectors. Buy yourself a new toothbrush and use the old one for the connectors!
IVAN sorry for the name confusion on my part, at least I kept you in good company ( Erick O. ) at any rate I fallow you two closely . The main point being you guys get the fix and find the root cause which is the real bonus. Thanks and sorry again
You did not show the resistance value after cleaning the plugs. The pull up resistor value will determine how much current that the circuit can source. That would cause a voltage drop even with a 100's of kilo ohm resistance if the pull up resistor is a high value. I would have put some dielectric grease in the plug to help keep out future moisture.
I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee and neighbors were telling me the parking lights were flashing and interior lights came on then went off. This was happening all night. Driving it to work it wasn't doing it ? One morning the battery was dead so I knew the issue was getting worse. Charged the battery and started pulling terminal when I parked it. It got worse to the point the doors were unlocking & locking driving down the road and the interior light came on when this happened and timed out which was miserable at night. Figuring it was a bad door switch I went to U-pull it and got switches for the doors and swapped. Did the front first as no one rode in the back. That didn't solve the issue so I changed rear doors. While having the doors apart I checked all the wiring to the plugs. Got to the point it was click click click when driving. Took Jeep to a wiring specialist recommended by the dealer. They checked all the wiring and changed a module. I think it was BCM ? When I picked it up it seemed OK going home but the next morning going to work the clicking started again. Hundreds of dollars to "not" repair. Called specialist who said the harness had to be changed. Hundreds more dollars. Bought a battery disconnect, took the bulbs out of the interior lights, and set it every time I parked it. Never was fixed. When income tax came traded it. Dealer walked around it but didn't test drive, LOL. They would wholesale it anyway.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Tell me about it. Paid Rubino's automotive electrical specialists $100 for a module and $300 for installation and examining wiring harness to solve issue ? Wish someone like you was around then. You were probably still in high school.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics They all have the same pin set-up. The pins are very thin and are made of copper. The wire is very heavy and can handle a heavy load,so that can make the pins get hot,if there is a bad ground.One example, 1993 Geo metro headlights have sealed beam with three prong plug.the harness runs back to fuse block under dash,the pin socket.Bad ground at headlight will make pins melt at pin socket inside of car. My own case studie.
