Would everyone please shut up about how mfs are "Multiversal" or "Galaxy Level" or "Massively Faster Than Light" when you know damn well we're talking about some goofy ass Demon Slayer character who'd get bodied by Tony Tony Chopper
@@bignstuff Call me crazy or gooby goober all you want I personally still enjoy power scaling videos and stuff. Although you are right so I'm gonna take it too seriously it's just be only used for fun. How do you feel about what if videos just curious
actually in the short movie Garfield's Nine Lives he dies several times but is ultimately re-incarnated into god. so he still wins even if goku could hurt him
The most common variation of this I see is the “low 2C” tier being thrown around like candy. Some specific hacked or toon force ability does something that vaguely affects the “universe” and suddenly SpongeBob is strong enough to crush galaxies with a thought even though he struggles to open a jar of pickles.
@@strateks9611 yeah stuff like that. Spongebob having a toon moment where a string he held “unraveled the whole universe” suddenly makes him stronger than Goku or Superman.
@@strateks9611 Yeah, one time only and then never again aka Outlier at best, outweighed by the MOUNTAIN of anti-feats where consistently Spongebob would be nowhere near universal, Didn't see him try to Unravel the Universe on the Cyclops or Dennis in the Spongebob Movie or try to travel at MFTL+ speeds to get out of Rock Bottom, SpongeBob finds out he's shock absorbent to Flats in just ONE episode only but the entire rest of the seasons he gets his butt kicked and is in visible pain and bruised, especially with him shattering his pelvis from snowboarding and needing it to be glued back together. You don't get the excuse to just use their best outlier feat and just somehow ignore all the anti-feats
Yes. All outliers. Spongebob is a wimp. 99% of the time he is a wuss that can be beaten even by a little dog or cat. Spongebob is also a show for wimps. Real boys watched Power Rangers , Dragonballz or He Man.
Part of the problem here is exceptional feats of heroics getting portrayed as at will abilities. By this same logic, every Finnish man can take a sniper round to the face and then kill the person who fired it, along with 500 other soldiers. Every Soviet woman can kill dozens of nazis with a rifle, then win outnumbered 8:1 in hand to hand combat with no casualties and take 4 prisoners each. Yeah, those are real things that happened in WWII, but they are not remotely typical things that happened in WWII. The average person did not shrug off .50 cals and proceed to personally fight off half a Soviet division himself or slice open hordes of invading nazis with her bayonet. And likely we remember the ones who did because the ones who tried and failed didn't get the chance to try again.
Nodding-along to Non Arguments is nice, but seriously, heres a real easy debunk of some of the points herre: "People are biased so powersclaing is stupid" No ,thats a You-Problem. I dont have that isue at all. I would argue the MAJROITY, which is a distinctly-different word from MINORITY, has no problem not having their personal taste interefere with their debate "Many Authors dont care. And whats the use of Consistency anyway." Nonsensee. The better a Work of Fiction, the more ocherent it is. The more coherent is, the better. This is basic knowledge about the planet oyu live on, cmmon "Look, a time where an Author didnt care or didnt notice somethingg" Continueing with the non-arguemnts, i see? Yes, pointing at an exception has never ther ability to disprove the larger Trend/Picture
"Oppenheimer created the atomic bomb so he's at least City to Island level. Newton discovered and harnessed gravity so he's at least Small Planet level." This is literally how powerscalers sound
I mean, Oppenheimer if he was equipped with his own bomb WOULD be City to Island level, though. You're not really making the point you think you're making because the comparison to Newton merely quantifying the existing force we'd all known and naming it "gravity" isn't at all the same to building a bomb. Like what even is this comparison?
One thing I always hate is that whenever a character dodges a "laser" that means at the very least they have a faster then light reaction speed, NO MATTER what. Even if it's a slow ass beam attack that takes 5 seconds to hit the target. This feat is so over used because tons of authors use laser attacks because they're cool.
You have no idea how much this irks my nerves whenever I see/hear that. The reaching is crazy. It's especially bad in cases where it's mainly a videogame thing because of technical limitations or to save time. Like when they did Dragonborn vs Chosen Undead and they tried to say Dragonborn's magical arrowshot blocking out the sun instantly meant it moved beyond lightspeed. Bro, what? That's just the devs making the effect go off without taking ridiuclously long. Who wants to sit there and actually wait for that effect to go off in real time?
@@yusifudo46 I'm not sure what the point of this comment even was because it sounds like an unnecessary one. Power Scaling only works when it is used correctly. 9.5/10 it is not. The problem with early Death Battle was that they did little to no research into the characters. It doesn't necessarily have to do with Power Scaling in itself.
@@ShogunPlasma You brought up a Death Battle match and complaining about points they brought up. All I said is they're only doing that stuff now because people gave them flack for not power scaling before. Thought I was transparent obviously
@@yusifudo46 I don't see the issue here. I used an actual example from Death Battle to prove my point. This has nothing to do with people complaining about them not using Power Scaling before. This is about the fact that the way people chose to Power Scale is literally stupid and ignorant. It's literally just "conveinence" for the sake of an argument.
I'm not saying that power scaling is nesesary, but an author needs to be consistent to make a good story and power scaling makes it all easier. So yeah powerscaling is important.
@@pedro_6120It's still fact though, there are even other authors who doesn't even like talking about powerscaling, even if there's consistencies in power levels, the author is just gonna put a power up to a character or make the character stronger to make sure they will win. Even strategy for a character. It's a matter on how they will win. For example, denji beats makima, stan pines beat bill cipher. Those villains was stronger than them yet they still find a way to defeat them, i'm sure if people debate who would win without any of this event, the outcome would not be the same as their respectable series, unless of course their just mindlessly fighting
@@pedro_6120Then one piece and Jojo is not a good story, seriously i've seen inconsistencies that's happening in the story yet they still manage get away with it, even fans admit it lol
@@gottthhaaa429 of course, I see your point, but there is always a hierarchy and that, even if you don't think about it is powerscaling, measuring a character at their strongest to see who is weaker or stronger. And of course strategy is an important part, but do you really think denji at the start of CSM could kill makima, of course not. It took not only physical but mental growth to achieve that. At its core powerscaling can be incredibly simple, character A is at a higher rank than character B so he should scale higher unless proving or stating otherwise. Sorry if I sounded mean in my first coment, I didn't mean it to sound like that.
"My dad can beat up your dad" is such a perfect comparison. I too am somewhat guilty of this kind of behavior but I overall agree the Power Scaling is immature BS and I too hate it. Here's a subscription.
grown man hating on ppl trying to quantify the level of power of a virtual character for fun is crazy bro 💀i just wanna know whod win in a fight why u gotta make a fuss over it
The worst I’ve encountered is the group of people, a small but very vocal bunch, that think the quality of the media is dependent on how strong a character is. They’ve sunk so much time into “versus debates” that they lack the ability to judge media correctly and only care about if their character can crush a building by looking at it too hard or something.
just tell them main character is God who turned human so he could understand there struggles you can say that for every character in fiction Mr Simpson yes house monk so that makes them all universal
To me this feels very similar to shipping in a fandom sense. Powerscaling or asking "who would win at their absolute best" is fine at it's core, but it seems to always invite a ludicrous amount of toxicity when discussions about it actually happen.
@@beakslololol4347They can by all means, but it’s less common because of gender roles. Ya know? The classic “girls into romance, guys into violence”. It’s terribly toxic on both sides, two sides of the same coin.
Honestly, powerscaling has gotten pretty unreliable recently. The modern powerscalers, even Death Battle, seem to ignore consistency and anti-feats. It's like they're on a mission to show these characters only at their absolute best, without considering that some of those high-end feats might just be one-time outliers.
they just aren't objective or honest when scaling characters they can't even admit when they don't actually know something because the series doesn't give enough info but consider pure speculation as fact a character could be far stronger than what series implies etc. or weaker.
This is nothing new. Batman Has some multiversal level feats under his belt. Spider man has knocked out some of galactus's heralds, who are shown to be strong enough to swim through stars in 70's. It's just that early power scalers had restraint And understood what outliers are and knew that some feats are just done for a rule of cool. They rated a character based on how strong they're consistently shown in their media. An idea that most modern power scalers I spoke to absolutely hates Because they believe that rating a character on how strong they are consistently is downplaying.
"Even Death Battle" DB was never a good source and the Stone Free feat demonstrates it. Their ability to interpret situations is leagues below their ability to do basic trigonometry.
Anything Marvel or DC always devolves into "X hero went 10 gorillion times faster than the speed of light, while Y hero only went glomtillion times faster than the speed of light" like they can comprehend these absurd numbers in any way. And then like you said, they ignore all nuance or plot convenience, cool factor, illogical moments, etc.
Worse still, Marvel and DC (but *specially* DC) discussions devolve into "Superman crossed the boundaries of peepee-poopoo transfartversal realm of existence and non-existence, thus going beyond the concepts of space and time and by consequence transcending beyond the very concept of speed itself which becomes irrelevant!" And no, I'm not making this up. Sort of... the foul language is obviously inaccurate, but the rest is pretty much on point almost word by word with certain scaling channels. Which I mean, are they wrong? Eh, technically not because DC is just THAT ridiculous and stupid. Is it still internally incoherent to the point of making little logical sense narratively that it becomes hard to take such feats as seriously as scalers do? Yes, yes it is.
@@mekingtiger9095 "gamora sucked on thanos's left ballsack and became so powerfull she could kill gods by quuefing in their direction" this right here is how absurd the comics get, and ofcourse people will take the strongest version of the character no matter how garbage it is
I love how bad they are at actually estimating things. If those meteors were moving at 11 Mm/s, then the whole prison would have been vaporized before they even landed. From what we see in the scene they are clearly moving at less than 300 m/s when they enter the building.
It could only make sense if the meteors are illusions or something. Or just balls of rock and fire that are made in the air and then fall down, rather than actually being pulled from other space. Because that scene is completely ridiculous: any meteor big enough not to burn up in the atmosphere would do way more damage than depicted
Your first mistake was using logic. In powerscaling, nothing can ever be scaled down. That isn't a joke. It's on Omniversal Battlefield. It's the first and most important rule. This means that the prison would actually just be upscaled to like multi-continental if not planetary.
Batman's thing has always been "it depends on the writers." Sometimes he genuinely is just a guy in a bat costume. Other times he does actually have super powers that are brushed off as "he works out a lot." The only thing that's consistent across writers is that he has super intelligence. Batman's intelligence places him as one of the smartest characters in fiction sometimes, and this is a genuine power that the writers rarely acknowledge.
@@orangeapples You can absolutely destroy concrete with your bare hand... The question of how MUCH concrete, though, is the biggest determiner of if it is possible.
The intelligence thing is also dependent on the writer, because it's really hard for a stupid writer to write a genuinely intelligent writer. I get that you don't need to be as smart as the character you're writing, because you have time on your side while you can write the character figuring all that out in seconds. But you do need some intelligence to understand how things work. Sometimes, Batman's intelligence is relatively normal, grounded, and believable. He's really smart, but he's human. Other times, he's unraveling the secrets of the cosmos by looking at a thing, or IDing a man by the feel of his face on his fist from punching him. Ridiculous crap like that that is obviously just plot-induced BS instead of actual intelligence. Basically, after a certain point, it's not intelligence that he's showing off, but knowing the plot and the script. And that's pretty stupid.
There's a comic where Batman gets shot by a tank and survives. And in another he survived falling from space to Earth. Dude is pretty wacky.@@WestGarbage6
As a DMC fan in year 2023, I have seen people try to say a character with under normal human strength is an omnipotent god because he killed a few ghosts described as "metaphysical" in flavour text even though they were specifically said to be weaker than their original versions in the same text
I know this sounds super weird, but hear me out. 'History buffs' on the internet have the exact same problem when it comes to judging historical civilizations. Every single civilization is judged by "Who would win in a war". That's why they all have such hard-ons for Prussia, Nazi Germany and the Roman Empire. It's baffling how many atrocities they overlook because army strong.
Damn, that's a nice parallel. I always thought the Roman Empire to be overrated to the extreme. I never really understood why so many people on the internet put it on a pedestal, but then it finally occurred to me: They only ever talk about Rome's military and only their military and its historical real life feats. It was when I realized and went "Ooooooh, they're *those* type of people who only care about the concept of 'cool action' and strength and might". Yeah, look, I do hate feminists and always will, but at times I do wonder whether their views of "toxic masculinity" aren't actually somewhat at least indirectly influenced by immature people like these acting like 14 year olds engaging in PP measuring contests.
the nazi germany thing is more so just a "yeah they were defeated, but what if I was the one commanding that army. could I have won?" like a sort of messed up underdog story cuz we know now that they failed in the end. or u know how people are morbidly fascinated with dictators, serial killers and those types of things like how there's more interest in demons and hell and demonic lore over angels and heaven and all that
@@xaevius5319 It's a historical map simulation strategy videogame set in WW2 where you control any nation of your choosing during the time period managing the country's military, diplomacy, trade and resources. But mostly the military at a division scale. And the amount of Germany fanboys who go "If I was in command of the Wehrmacht, Germamy would've won!" that game created or attracted to the community is honestly staggering.
The goofiest thing with Batman defenders is that the reason the character is so compelling to begin with is that he's limited power-wise. He's a noir detective with neat gadgets, whose best villains are equally devoid of superpowers. Batman works so well specifically because he CAN'T just punch the other guy through a wall. Bu arguing he can beat Goku, a fan of Batman immediately strips the character of his appeal.
The "powerscaling betrays the media" argument is very baffling to me. Like, yeah? The point was never to make an official story of a character, it was just to see who would be able to win in a fight, given all accounts. People who take it too seriously are silly, yeah, but that's said about just about every hobby.
@@defectivesickle5643 Again, I'm a power-scaler and I kind of agree/disagree, if you take it too seriously (as in getting legitmately heated in a debate that you chose to participate in.) I wouldn't say that, but in the context that "This shit won't happen ever, but lets talk about it anyway." is a very good way to look at it.
yeah and with powerscalers, you'd forget Batman is supposed to be a human being as all the feats clearly state his intellect is above human level, which kinda defeats the whole point of the character
The power scaling community loves to argue but they don't recognize when they're committing formal fallacies. I've seen once where a power scaler entered an actual philosophy Clubhouse and left because "getting corrected is cringe."
@@shizsker54 that's the problem, they care about powerscalling more then a good story, for example there is an articale and i am not joking, made SCP 096 immessrubale speed and strengh amd destroyd a galexy by jumping, like what was wrong with the old story
@@shizsker54 I don't know, bro. A rather good portion of these bad writers seems to be powerscalers engaging in a D measuring contest to see who's the "stronkest". Obviously not all power scalers are like that, but the community at large tends to a breeding pit for a lot of bad apples that then go out of their nest to wander the exterior world and then spread their influence for some reason. Sorry if might have generalized it a bit, but holy, are these individual bad apples annoying.
Ive decided to try power scaling.. so far its awful I mean every point in the video is good and i agree But its so funny seing these people rage and simp that much. Worst part is i have to keep going or else he will stop and dang is he goofy. I said i respect him for the hustle etc and he became toxic
I am from the godzilla comunity to and one thing that happens..as.. FUCK ITS MISINFORMATION DAMN BRO FOR ME POWER SCALERS MISINFORMATION THEY SOMETIMES MAKE AN A UNDERRATED CHARACTER TO A FUCKING OVERRATED CHARACTER and its sad that those clown exist i mean i know not all power scalers are like this but damn seriously
the amount of times that I've seen a regular human given "massively faster than light" because of some insane mental gymnastics by power scalers is hilarious. Just utterly ridiculous.
goon points a laser gun in a very telegraphed way and shoots character, character sees that in time and avoid the shot. powerscalers: HE DODGED A LASER, HE IS FTL!
@@hunternot exactly! I've always wanted to say that and one piece is my favorite anime! now I'm going to leave before the comment war starts. good luck
This Is so true especially for shonens. Idc how strong they are, they see a bunch of teens moving at breakneck Speed and go "Faster than light" I literally saw some Naruto fans saying that 12 year old Sasuke was faster than light because he was faster than Haku Or One piece fans "He Is faster than light" for every character beucase...i don't know honestly
power scaling is at it's most interesting and least toxic when people are interested in portraying characters accurately and coherently, rather than trying than trying to justify their favorite character being stronger than everything else.
@@OmniversalInsect I think you can compare characters from different universes you just need more concrete numbers to compare since you can't derive a chain of scaling.
I don't take match ups as seriously as power scalers do with stupid math, I just take what lore we are given, what their possible capabilities are in an unbiased way. I love halo and I would prefer the master chief to doomguy. This is because master chief is a better written character who can be relatable whereas the doomslayer has the emotional relatability and potential of a brick. But realistically, while the master chief more or less saved humanity from the covenant, he is still only a human supersoldier who is lorewise just as killable as any other Spartan, but the doomslayer is canonically an unkillable demi god that literally cannot be destroyed. It is a standing joke that the doomslayer killed thousands of demons with his shotgun and then he found some ammo for it. The doomslayer would wipe the floor with master chief.
@@gruminator5048 if someone if bringing up cardinals and bullshit like that the person you are talking to is just trying to overwhelm you with terms. Occasionally scalers might make a calc just to understand something that might not have direct statements but most of what you've described is actually applicable to a lot what makes sense in power scaling. Ultimately it's just a hobby, a different way to talk about your favorite series and characters, I don't think scalers take themselves too seriously but they do make an honest attempt at making the best argument or interpretation they can, at least the good scalers
Anti powerscalling mfs when they realize that we know what plot armor is but we just remove it in debates because we want to make the fight as fair as possible
As a Kirby fan it’s so unbelievably annoying when people barge into conversations about him and go “ergh Kirby is the strongest character ever because he’s an Eldridge elder super god that kills other super gods”
Same with Kratos fans whenever they bring the argument of him killing gods when pretty much the characters he is going against can literally do the same
@@AuroraBoostIt's funny because Kratos was literally struggling against Zeus and even initially losing, yet Kratos fanboys act like he easily killed him.
Yes, because the creator loves Kirby and decided they should. Kirby ALSO gets horribly wounded just from a simple waddle-d walking into them at 3 miles per hour. @@user-vi4xy1jw7e
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e ok but A. Sakurai stated that several other characters (specifically Bayonetta and Palutena) could have escaped but chose to only have Kirby survive since he’s a beginner character for players to use for the mode. B. Kirby temporarily phasing out of existence as Galeem destroys the universe is kind of an arse pull on Sakurai’s part since he’s never done that in his games and that whole bit is based on an animation in the intro of Super Star. C. World of Light is entirely non-canon to the fighters in the game and Galeem’s power is kind of questionable (he can apparently destroy the universe and remake all of it in his image but gets one-shot by Sephiroth and gets beaten by any character you choose to fight him with) so who’s to say what would actually happen
Powerscaling is even more of an insane nightmare when characters of particular settings have multiple, inconsistent authors like in Star Wars or Warhammer 40k. In books and comics Darth Vader is like a planetary-level threat able to drag ships out of space while in the movies he gets fucking owned by being shocked a little too much. Similarly you can have your average Space Marine be gunned down by a few squads of soldiers with laser guns in one book then in another you can have your average Space Marine literally wipe an entire army just by himself. Actually quantifying their abilities in a fair manner is borderline impossible in those cases because supporters will point to their strongest moments while detractors will just point out their weakest ones.
@@SkoomaGodDovahkiin666 Right like everyone loves to make fun of Lasguns while forgetting that if they were dropped into any other fictional world they'd be power weapons.
@@RipRLeeErmey Here here. Lasguns, In addition to being Borderlands pattern Legendary Guns with bullshit range and power, can be recharged via mere heat alone(in some instances, most of the time, some guardsmen just chuck the lazpacks into fires and it works) in addition to having over 300-400 plus shots.
i will forever blame dragonball Z for starting this power scaling bullshit. it was perfect fine in freeza saga, but them after that every arc is ''gota pup up my power level''
Morale of the story: The writers are the most powerful characters and could defeat any other character in any fight, *PERIOD.* They have the insane ability called ''plot armor'' that they can grant to their desired ally characters, called the ''protagonists''/''main characters,'' which is the single strongest damage reduction and defence boost stat in the entirety of existence. It can survive fusion bombs, nuclear holocaust, gamma rays, supernovas, the entire universe collapsing in on itself, you name it. No one punch man ain't one punching through that! Honestly it's a good thing that they don't even interact with the fictional universes most of the times, because they are literal gods, and all the characters are just action figures they play around with.
I agree stan lee put it best at one point when he made his rant against power scaling, which I found very therapeutic that the winner is the one that writer whats to win as a future comic creator I was worried about how strinf should I make my characters and how to still make it make sense but thanks from advice from my mother about just having faith in God and stan lee words helped me power scaling and bringing in the multiverse and trying to make characters super powerful all time is a what is now ruining fiction now I mean people are now bringing in the omniverse now which is now making this a bigger mess so follow the advice of some of the old greats and just have faith in yourself as a creator and whatever deity you believe because all you and those we worship in our religion truly know what we are capable of and both know well what we make is fiction it as only as powerful as we want to make it from silly toons to the greatest heroes in anime
What's kind of frustrating about this type of point is it's something that people who enjoy power scaling know, it's just not relevant to the hobby. Both parties know if they were to exist in the same story whoever wrote it would decide who wins, it's not some grand revelation that that's the case. If I'm comparing Goku and Superman I care about how each writer went about their own story and how they portrayed each character. Saying "it doesn't matter the writer chooses anyway" is just as reductive and frustrating as when "could he beat Goku" is brought up in other contexts.
Early Christian missionaries in Scandinavia claimed that one stumbling block in converting the Norse to Christianity was that they kept asking if Jesus could beat Thor in a fight.
@@irex4720Thor low-diffs Jesus, but Jesus keeps resurrecting. Meanwhile, Thor is fated to die during Ragnarok, so eventually Jesus wins. Some may argue that Jesus could call upon the power of Yahweh who they will claim is omnipotent, and therefore he wins, but actually Yahweh couldn't even beat an army with iron chariots in the Old Testament, so claims of his omnipotence are overstated. Jesus does have the advantage of being able to calm storms, so Thor's lightning powers might be ineffective, but Thor still has a massive hammer and superhuman strength. The only chance Jesus has of winning without relying on his resurrection powers and waiting for Thor to die to Ragnarok is if his transmutation powers are able to work on Thor's body directly, or if he can curse Thor like he cursed the fig tree. If his magic is effective, he could, for example, turn Thor's blood into wine, which would kill him instantly. Jesus's healing powers demonstrate that his abilities can be used on humans, but it's not clear if Thor would be able to resist such attacks using his own magic. I think he would be able to.
In a way, I feel like the Chuck Norris and Shaggy memes were playing fun at this. Acting like a mere Karate Movie actor and a character canonically shown to be a gluttonous coward is able to solo all these Uber-powerful characters just because they said so.
The appeal of Batman to me is him being an underdog. He has no powers and is trying to fight villains that are mostly superhuman with most other character in his verse being far above his pay grade and him choosing to fight against them in-spite of that is really appealing, I feel like we don’t have much scenes of this underdog persona being explored in justice league films but the fact that that’s probably going through his head makes him feel so real, it suits his backstory to, he was powerless to stop those bullets and in a world we’re you’re seemingly the only normal street level human he probably stills feels powerless and takes on these people anyway. The whole Batman plus prep time solos goku argument I feel takes away from that when the reason he uses prep time in the first place is cause he’s the only character who’s forced to rely on it.
Batman has 9999 failsafes and even a thing called failsafe, the only prep he needs is being a version with all the bullshit weird shit, like the weird light magic knowing of the anime and shit. A lot of times he hasnt had prep but because he was so well versed he was able to adapt. As long as he doesn't pull 'i win' out his ass it's fine. Just assume he knows everything a human like him would know, trying everything anti-alien or strange rituals. I'd put him as a no weakness version of base superman in difficulty to beat, while superman has further forms and strange stuff himself and batman can beat a basic superman that's just a bit pissy due to basically just having his 'i win' button on him keeping him low power. For instance, spiderman vs superman if spiderman has kryptonite webbing, there needs to be a 'i win' button clause or omething.
@@yourdemiseishere even then that’s still mainly stemming from bias writers. Justice league animated series was the start of all this Batman bias nonsense putting him above everyone else. Yeah nowadays he has all these plans for stronger characters but back in the day Batman got his ass beat all the time ! And it was awesome! Seeing him have to get back up was better because it showed that he was still human and wasn’t the perfect fighter he is now
Pretty much any popular version of Batman is 100% superhuman in their own universe, though. Like genuinely fucking ridiculous things they do, which defeat the whole point of the character IMO. Arkham Batman: Robert Pattinson and Christian Bales Batmans are perfectly done, though.
Imagine power scaling a butter knife against a serrated blade because the butter knife was used to stab someone’s eye and kill them with one fell swoop.
Different kind of damage output. Serrated knife can make much more horrid wounds because...well, it's serrated. Still, it depends on who's using them. If you give the butter knife to a human, abd the serrated knife to an octopus (assuming the octopus can only attack with it and nothing else), the human with the butter knife would win. ...ah, but yeah, I guess I get what you mean. This is dumb, haha.
The point of powerscaling would be to figure out that the serrated blade can also kill someone with one attack to the eye, so their damage potential must be measured some other way.
Powerscalers has plagued communities to the point where it kind of changes my opinion of something even though I know it doesn’t affect anything at all. I try my best to not let communities/the minority change my opinion on something just because I got into a heated argument with someone on the internet.
No yeah if you let something as stupid as an argument about power scaling change how you look at a series, the problem is you, not the power scalers themselves.
I remember being in middle school and getting into a heated debate on the GameFAQs forums about how peak Sephiroth was unbeatable because in the Kalm flashback, he took zero damage from everything. Somebody replied that that was just the story Cloud was telling, and that it wasn't actually a display of Sephiroth's power, but of how Cloud perceived it, and it rocked my world; not just because it was true in the context of the grave, but because I realized that it also _applied to the game itself._ It was all just a story being told to me by the developers. The only power that really matters in a story is the power of the one telling it.
Well, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a bit of speculation for pure fun, but ultimately we are here for the story. If anything distracts you from the story being told, then it's probably not worth obsessing over.
Not really, it’s just acknowledging that the writer has the power which if you ask me is pretty fucking obvious to the point of making it the opposite of insightful.
Honestly I enjoy a good versus debate most when you lean into the fanfiction aspects of it. When you ask "What would cause these characters to fight? How would they react to each other? How might their unique skills or abilities interact with each other?" that's when you get interesting discussion and entertaining stories. Reducing a character to feats and tiers where whoever gets the biggest number wins, and that's the end of it, is incredibly boring.
I agree with you. I don't understand why people try to criticize this method by calling it "arbitrary" when like... The whole point of imagining matchups is arbitrary in the first place!
Agreed, but there is another path that’s equally interesting. Powerscaling low power characters against high power, and trying to justify the low powers victory via increasingly convoluted methods like mr bean vs Superman
I like power scaling and using feats but I’m still confused on why people use a feat that likely isn’t just meant to either look cool or progress the story then it becomes difficult like with deku from mha he’s mostly definitely not light speed if you look at the bigger picture but because he dodged lasers in one scene he’s considered light speed by some people i hope I typed this in a understand way but I probably didn’t cause I suck at this
Power scalers have completely ruined the SCP community. SCP used to basically just be creepy pastas for adults, but then people realized they could use it as a platform to show off their overpowered OC so then it just turned into a race on who can make the most powerful deviantART OC. “my made-up character can beat up your made-up character.” I don’t even get the appeal really like SCP isn’t an action shonen with a lot of fight scenes. It’s basically just a bunch of descriptions of characters and aren’t even really characters either there’s no story or narrative so why are people so obsessed with it?
Someone hasn't read the tales. and many scp power scalers say to separate it enjoy the story and power scale it if you like it simple also if your story or scp is bad it's removed and op scps are the most common removed
@@dereck9736 SCP "content" thats based outside the entries themselves are all effectively just contradictory fan fiction. Hell the fact that they have whats basically a committee deciding that 682 and SK should get nerfed if the most laughable shit ive ever heard its some striaght old testament vs new testament shit
@@MILDMONSTER1234 thanks for showing that you don't read scp at all if anything scp 682 and sk are stronger then ever and any contradictions can be fixed or understood the fact you say this shows your lack of knowledge Also I can tell your one of those reddit atheists
Scp 3143 Murphy law is a good example of this,he's a character that can create his own story/plot but he usually always gets subverted and challenged (and sometimes even beaten) by characters within the story due to his adherence to detective/mystery narratives,but all power scalers see is "he's literally on par with the author" and the only thing that ever gets discussed online is how he could no diff all of fiction or whatever
@@dereck9736 >scp fan calling anyone an edgy redditor O I’m laffin. SCP “canon” is effectively just canon by committee and even then just by the nature of scp being open to anyone because there’s no copyright any person can make up a story on ao3 of a chicken one shotting mr scarlet or another super op entry or better yet a book since any idiot can basically do anything with the fake lore people made up.
@@acidity2k486 yeah they started turning into incompetent chronically fatherless online virgin incel losers spamming their dusty keyboards. Happens frequently
people need to realize that power scaling comparisons is a fun topic if you don't get too technical and literal. Edit: Emphases on *too* technical and literal. Some of y'all're countering like I said "don't get technical and literal"...
@@kindlingking100% agreed. People being way too serious about debating fictional characters is one of the reasons why I stopped power scaling, I simply can't comprehend how someone can get toxic over something as pointless as this. Looking back at my experiences with power scaling it's mostly been a dread-fest. Something that was supposed to be fun just ends up drawing in some very toxic people 📎
Hello my fellow squirrel. 🐿️ While I sorta agree, I do think trying to genuinely compare two interesting characters from completely different universes is an interesting thing to do. Like for instance, who would solve the Kira case faster between L and Batman. For me, that’s interesting because they’re both incredibly intelligent detectives but have different ways and tools to utilize. Something that seemingly close would be interesting to find out who’s legitimately better. But that’s a scenario with more nuance and subtitly so if you just want to imagine fun fights between two powerhouses, I don’t think it’s worth getting that technical about it. Just do like a loose mix of rp and power scaling and play a fight through.
Powerscalers have practically ruined any discussion on Sun Wukong. You can't go five seconds on any discussion regarding him without these powerscalers coming out of the woodwork to circlejerk the ever loving shit out of his hypothetical power level.
As someone who has read Journey to the West, Sun Wukong is in fact hilariously overpowered. The whole point is that he has to learn humility and how to use his powers for good, which is why he gets casually bitchslapped by Buddha and then controlled by Sanzang with a magic headache circlet. Also that whole thing about him being limited to the physical plane, so the reason he gets clapped by Buddha is that Buddha is one with the universe. It's like if your toenail suddenly decided to rebel, it can't beat something it's a part of.
@@Duothimir That's all well and good, but the powerscalers don't actually care about that context. They take his power in a vacuum and go on and on about how he can solo every other fictional character, which leads back to the grievances of this video where we have similar circlejerking with Goku and Batman. It's like they care more about his power than his actual character.
The thing I hate the most in power scaling discussions, and one that I feel adds to your storytelling argument, is when a slapstick cartoon character is brought into the ring and all of a sudden we're talking about "toon force" (I hate that term so much bro), the power that apparently grants those characters the ability to bend reality to their will. This is the best example of authors being more concerned with portraying compelling scenes in my opinion, because even moreso in these kinds of cartoons, the difference in a character's power between when they need save their ass and when they need to be in real danger is especially palpable. Roger Rabbit put it the best way when he said that cartoons only do what they do and decide when to do it solely based on how funny it might be at that moment. Bugs Bunny wouldn't fight Goku out of nowhere because Bugs wouldn't think it's funny; he doesn't operate that way, Goku is too much of a good guy to be fucked with. However, if Bugs was somehow in Thanos' way of destroying half the population of earth, then yeah, Thanos would be smoked in seven minutes or less, I'll give you that. But only because it's funny.
The whole idea of "toon force" is so funny, because you acknowledge that certain characters' abilities can vary wildly based on what's cool/funny/emotionally satisfying, but you stop just short of figuring out what that actually _means._
i remember seeing a tumblr post that actually depicted Bugs vs Thanos, and it had Bugs disguised as airport security and he was ushering Thanos through a metal detector. obviously this means he needs to remove his personal belongings....
@@Dominator150395 Everytime I hear "toonforce" I immediately step away from whatever conversation, video or thread I was currently watching because I *know* there will be so many contradictions in the scaling methods that I'd rather spare myself from the frustration of having my brain melt away from pure cringe.
@@billyboleson2830 this is laughable because scp has a cc license and is canon if your talking about stuff like omniversal 682 then I agree as an scp fan
I usually don't take SCP powerscaling that seriously because of its lack of official canon. I guess some people could try to take slme of the more OP versions of 682 and powerscale those specific versions and that's fine. Besides, it isn't really the fault of powerscalers that SCP got completely ruined. Powerscalers just look at characters alrwady written and determine their power levels *after* their creation. Although I will agree that 682's writing is idiotic as hell. The thing went from "yo, dis lizard do be Wolverine" to literally unkillable eldritch horror above all other eldritch horrors imaginable except 2935. But I guess that what you need to keep 682 relevant after the writers have upped the stakes of the SCP verse to complete ridiculousness.
The funny thing about rule 3 is that I find that the direct opposite is the case. When I watch Death Battles, the character I think sounds more interesting, will almost ALWAYS lose. Because being stupidly overpowered is BORING.
yeah im not a fan of those kinds of characters that are capable of sneezing away a whole universe for no reason whatsoever, and they end up looking like the same brown haired, no interesting features, anime protagonist like the rest of them, i cant even tell them all apart. i want to see them gain their power, put in the effort and try their hardest, and have a unique character design please i beg
@@koboldwizard Sorry, bub, when you put value in the power of a character rather than the character itself, don't expect much attention to be put into the actual character.
“Jesus ain’t beating Goku tho.” “My brother in Christ, Jesus was nailed to cross for our sins. Goku is scared of needles.” “W-what?” “And he can resurrect himself without Dragon Balls.”
For my entire adult life I've been tempted to write a short story where a character gains infinite power and the ability to kill anything in a single look. And then actually get that story published somewhere. Not because I want to actually write that story. But exclusively because then the character actually officially exists. That way if anyone ever talks about power scaling I can fuck with them. His name? Jon Solos.
Check out a manga called My Instant Death Ability Is So Overpowered, No One in This Other World Stands a Chance Against Me! It's pretty much what you're talking about. At one point the main character is driving across a desert and the mangaka takes the chance to explain how the world exists in a multiverse and is at the whims of a giant multiversal fish who devours entire worlds and can see the future. The fish got bored of just eating and so started inserting itself as a character into these worlds and doing stuff using it's foresight ability like leading armies. But because the army it was leading happened to be in the way of the main character, the MC killed the fish just by thinking about it.
Batman’s problem is that he started as “the world greatest detective” like Sherlock Holmes. The problem is DC is an ever evolving multiverse that makes stronger and stronger threats. And since Batman’s thing is being the smartest, his ability to make inhumane, incomprehensible solutions to universe busting problems somewhat ruins his character
I like “guy in a bat suit who’s good at solving crimes and has fancy gadgets” Batman more than “I’m a super genius give me enough time and I can kill 200 gods with a mechanical spoon I invented” Batman
I miss when Detective Comics Comics did Detective, Cop, Government, CSI, etc. type of characters in Mystery, Action, etc. Nowadays, it feels like Every single person including Writers are more focused on How strong a character is.
Sometimes this powerscaling thing just breakes the entire idea of behind a character. Kratos for example is very strong, being able to flip building and fight giant creatures. That's cool. But then someone scales him to Thor, and because Thor cracked one of the branches of Yggdrasil tree and the Tree is basicly encompassing several universes, so now Kratos suddenly has multiverse level power, like wtf... Or Doomguy, I played 2016 and it is cool, when you lose the death animations actually show you how easily the protagonist could be killed by any of the demons. For me that makes him even cooler, a guy who is not invulnerable but with his strength, skill, speed, and sheer effing rage can plow through hordes of hell like butter. And then someone goes into the lore and how Doomguy is basically a godlike being, capable of killing the creator of infinite multivetse with his bare fists. When I hear staff like this, I basically lose any interest. When a character can destroy multiverses upon omniverses it just becomes a bunch of meaningless numbers, not relatable in any way.
that doomguy bit was quite accurate I’d just like to think he’s a normal guy with incredible strength and will saying a character is godlike just because they did a feat it just makes me hate power scalling more and more
@@faeyzaihsanulfikri9975doomguy is a bit of a gag character, the writers said that he only uses guns to make the demons suffer more, he's angry and so powerful that yeah he can one-shot everything, that doesn't equate to the gameplay and is only a bit of trivia the nerds enjoy, I say if playing as the doomslayer knowing he is almost all powerful makes the player more immersed or allows them to enjoy the power fantasy than eh why not, power scaling is fun up until you start doing math
The worst offense on the part of power scalers is the way they completely misinterpret all of physics beyond the most basic level. Anything greater than Newtonian (and even that they struggle with) is gibberish to them. Here's a fact: if a character can move faster than light, there is no point in quantifying their strength because it's infinite. Any character who can move FTL has infinite energy at their disposal. That's right, your basic, "fodder tier" goon than can travel between stars? He's infinitely powerful, and can one-shot anything.
everybody understands that tho. It's still written with certain FTL characters being stronger or faster than other FTL characters. You have to assume that the comparison is higher dimensional or multiversal or the universe they're fighting in works differently from ours for it to make sense. It's trying to make sense of the logic used within the story itself
@@Lightning_Lance No, you see, any character that can move FTL, not only has infinite energy, but the moment they accelerate any part of their body to that speed would instantly destroy the entire univerese. So the power scalers use all these quations but forget the most famous one E = mc2
My favorite example is the Naruto fandom & Might Guy. I watched certain members of that fandom argue until they were blue in the face that everyone must be high hypersonic by the time the Shippuden came around because they were scaling off vague "faster than eyesight" feats from the beginning of the series and would adamantly argue that the laws of thermodynamics (that say anything approaching Mach 5 will start experiencing spontaneous combustion from friction with the air) don't apply because it would disprove any notion of anyone reaching Mach 5 or higher without direct teleportation at any point in the series... Then Might Guy used the Morning Peacock attack on Kisame and proved unequivocally that the laws of thermodynamics absolutely do apply because that's what the move is: punching so fast that the air catches fire around his fists. The only other move shown to be faster is Guy's Night Guy, which was shown to create a pressure-wave in front of the attack that appears to distort the space in front of the user.
For real man. I'm currently in resident evil and devil may cry community and these 'powerscalers' are going wild. You see, when normal fans are just post memes about the games or just chilling in there, powerscalers or some random ass kids start to join and creates a massive kindergarten battles. I mean, I don't want our commnuity to turn into some kind of internet battlefield. All I wanted to is just talk with someone and discuss smth about the game and those powerscalers are ruining one of my entertainments.
That drywall came from a dream world of infinite imagination and each of those imagination has unlimited space and unlimited possibilities. That means that breaking that drywall makes him outerversal and boundless.
and Kyle yelled at his mom who can turn the lights on which means she’s faster than light but since Kyle yelled at her he clearly isn’t afraid of a FTL entity which scales him extremely faster than light and since light is real and he is in a story this also makes him boundless
I used to do a lot of power scaling and debating back in 2016 to about 2018/19 and knew a lot of the bigger vs debaters and power scalers before they got big (or infamous in a few cases) and I ended up simply despising the community around it by the end, especially when a lot of them started moving over to discord and doing a lot of their E debating in voice chats. It often just devolved into shit throwing and name calling or when they were throwing around scaling and feats it would become "my infinite is bigger then yours". Safe to say after somebody got swatted over a Naruto vs Goku debate then I knew it was time to leave.
🗣️ 💯 Literally everything you said I what I’ve seen on discord. Used to think Fictional VS debates were awesome among people who are good faith, but then you enter the discord scene and run into of younger scalers who are either toxic, don’t know how to debate, and a lot of times just both.
Someone should make a parody that completely mocks powerscalers. No, not like One Punch Man with one guy who is bored because he is stronger than everyone else. But a parody in which most if not all characters are as stupidly powerful as powerscalers often like to portray most media and the story plays the utter chaos of such power levels as straight as possible. I wanna see the utter uncontrollable chaos that it would be to have superpowered beings with star or "omniversal" exploding punches who can't control the inevitable collateral damage due to basic physics or even just minimal internal self-consistency play out *only to then "break" these rules and uave them die by random bullets or kitchen knives!*
I always picture hard-core power scalers watching a sports movie and just being like “this is bs! That team was full of people that never even played the sport before this season! You’re telling me they could beat a team that’s won the championship nine times! That’s unrealistic!”
No, thats MauLer fans. Powerscalers would just wank off the inexperienced team after such a crazy feat, and then SethTheProgrammer would make a 69 minute video trying to calculate the inexperienced team's untapped potential.
@@four-en-tee Oh, God. I *love* SethTheProgrammer's content but in an entirely ironic manner. The sheer amount of mental gymnastics he tends to engage with is so funny it ends up being meme worthy. He's basically as stereotypical as the average powerscaler often gets with his "logic" and thought process and I'm subscribed to him just to laugh at it. It kind of taps into something I've read this from Justin Alicea, a frequent commenter on Death Battle's videos: The biggest problem with most power scalers is that they tend to overcomplicate their scaling stuff to an extremely unnecessary degree such that it becomes a hilarious parody of itself.
The biggest example of writers not caring about powerscaling their characters as long as they make them cool is easily speedsters. Speedsters in movies or shows like Red Rush, Quicksilver, and the Flash basically have control over time because of how absurdly fast they can move yet sometimes lose battles or die in the stupidest ways possible. An example is Red Rush getting his skull crushed in the show Invicible. If he was truly as fast as he claims to be in the show, he should have never died the way he did to Omni-man, he would basically be untouchable.
I mean it depends on what kind of speedster. Some of them are explicitly always ludicrously fast (red rush), but certain iterations are not. Some versions of the flash for instance need to 'channel' the speed force or whatever to actually go fast, whereas other versions are just speedy bois who should be untouchable. Obviously a lot of writers/powerscalers fuck up the ideas of speedsters in terms of the logic behind it, like you said.
Yeah, this is why I stepped away from the debating community. Because it’s just full of childish and toxic idiots that act like their opinions is the absolute truth. Not to mention, debaters just go and jump at everyone's throat for no reason over a different opinion. Either this or they are so in love with characters that don’t exist because nobody that exists in real life loves them.
"Either this or they are so in love with characters that don’t exist because nobody that exists in real life loves them." Best roast ive heard for debaters
But that isn't exclusive to debaters, powerscaling itself is fine, some people are assholes, others are not, why is this such a hard thing for most to grasp?
my favorite power scaling discussions : "yeah when these two meet ain't no way they fight, instant friendship" "yeah" "yeah" "now what ?" "ok so now both characters have bloodlust"
Ichigo hits bankai and any other protag dies. Barion mode was made to compete with bankai. And super sayain god was made to compete with bankai. Ichigo still can just go bankai + hollow mask meaning even after other Shonen authors made their charaters stronger Ichigo is still the best.
Love it when powerscalers would just lie, spread misconceptions and call you stupid for not accepting they bs. I love Sun Wukong to death but saying that he could transform into a stronger version of his opponent is utter crap. ABSOLUTE NO (sensible) writer would do that to their story. Being op to the point of braindeadness and Mary Sue is NOT what makes Wukong legendary.
Powerscaling and powerscalers in general never made a lick of sense to me because there's no one on this planet who actually believes a character can be 14D while knowing what 14D means. I don't even understand half of the abbreviations anymore. Infinity? Infinity+?? Beyond fiction/narrative??? That's not even true to the slightest extent. That's just playground conjecture, there are NO characters beyond the story, even if explicitly stated. It all boils down to "I have anti-everything attacks and armor!!" like during primary school recess.
Yes, duning kruger effect: You know so little about the Topic you think its really silly. To quote Forrest-Valkai "I get why you think Evolution is fake. I think you were told a watered-down version of it and im gonna be straight with you: If somoeone told me Eovlution works like they told (=lied) to you, i would genuinly not believe it"
@@slevinchannel7589 1. No, this is not the Dunning Kruger effect. I am not assuming I know everything there is about powerscaling, I am stating how I feel about powerscaling. 2. Please learn to spell properly before you begin to format your messages as though you're "superior" to someone else. It's actually a prime example of the Dunning Kruger effect you just so happened to mention. 3. Despite me not knowing very much about powerscaling, it's not as though I necessarily require that much knowledge about it to be upset at it. Because I've heard several powerscalers of various ages use those terms unironically. I've seen them ruin communities and annoy people to absurd lengths just for these characters. Even if those were somehow "flukes" or "false powerscalers", they still exist. 4. I still have no idea what you're trying to disprove here.
@@generallyupsetfetus Yeah, adittedly you DID phrase it as "Never made sense to Me" but it's still a pretty bad, biased, reeking-of-0-knowledge coment Im not picking on you for no reaosn duh Simply put, powerscaling makes no f-ing sense to oyu cause you dont understnad itand this laughed-at video here did not help
I started enjoying Vs. Battles a lot more when I started thinking of them more as wrestling matches than physics debates. Wrestling matches are about story first, and predetermined based on what would be best for that story. Also, hearing people's interpretations of how the story would play out for the fight scenario to happen is a lot more interesting than hearing them explain how they calculated the amount of tnt in an explosion from a comic panel.
The best moments in Death Battle are the ones that have interesting character moments during the fights. Like Obi-Wan seeing Darth Vader in the illusion Kakashi produced, or that one scene of Sauron going into his giant eye form vs the Lich King using the Eye of Acherus, or pretty much all of Snake vs. Sam Fisher.
I never get what scenario people imagine. You don't just smack two action figures against eachother, every fight in any story is a scenario. Jojo's is a great example for this, as most of the villains are only a threat because of the specific scenario the characters find themselves in. I find it much more interesting to think of stories where it actually makes sense for characters to fight eachother, except most protagonists wouldn't fight other protagonists except maybe a misunderstanding (the goofiest reason for an all out fight). A bunch of years ago when one punch man was super popular, all the goku fanboys came out their caves to state that goku is stronger, as if that meant anything. All i could think about though, is that Saitama wouldn't want to fight goku because he's a weirdo and then they'd go shopping and cook food.
@@BaronB.BlazikenBaronOfBarons yeah the whole of beerus vs sailor galaxia , or the little moment with saitama vs popeye when he finally has a real fight ... those are the moments i honestly remember , the rest is mostly garbage ...
One thing that really pisses me off about powerscalers is how they interpret lightning/laser. Not everything that can react to light or dodge a bolt of lightning is automatically MFTL+, when it is clearly shown later in the same show them getting speed blitzed by things significantly slower in the same show.
I overall understand the point you're making tbh. Sometimes you can argue about the context of different scenes so they don't necessarily contradict eachother. But at the same time, the conclusions these powerscalers come to, most of the times, directly contradict certain narratives that the author tries to get across
I swear if I hear another argument of a random character being "massively hypersonic" or being "island level" because the most random action, I am going to lose it.
Mostly because his way of overcoming obstacles involves breaking one of Death Battle's main rules. He relies on recognizing, analyzing, and developing counters for his opponent's skills, abilities, and weaknesses. This is compelling to the reader since, as a powerless human, he's naturally disadvantaged and his preparations even the odds. But for the sake of as fair a fight as possible, his opponent would have to be given as much prep time.
@@Drawngalaxy Aside from Iron Man, not really. The way Batman preps for characters is a lot more effective than majority of "smart" characters do. When Iron Man, Dr Doom or Lex Luthor beat someone with prep, it's because they built something that only they could build. When Batman beats someone with prep, it's because he used a strategy that could only be used for that character. When Batman beats you, it's essentially cuz he creates a new anti feat for you, which is why I personally believe people are adamant about constantly involving Batman's prep, it's a lot more interesting to see Batman beat someone with prep than Iron Man for instance because it'll involve some kind of clever tactic, deduction or outsmarting move rather than "I'll build something off screen so I can beat an army of omnipotents" Also Spider-Man is one of the most overwanked characters I've ever seen in my entire life, even more so than Batman, cuz Batman's outlier feats at least aren't taken seriously. Like if you try and claim that Batman can beat Superman with nothing but kryptonite knuckles, you'll get laughed at justifiably so, but people legitimately bring up nonsense feats of Spider-Man beating X-Men, Fantastic Four and don't see anything wrong with it despite the fact that he daily struggles with his fodder ahh rogues gallery (in comparison to the rest of Marvel obviously)
He might be a normal human being but so is Krillin from Dragonball, and he beat goku, when he was a kid, who beat giren who is stronger then gods of destruction. So it's perfectly reasonable that Batman might be able to beat superman.
What is worse is when fans start demanding power scaling consistency from authors, and using that as way to rate scenes or arcs or works of fiction. They don't care about character development or emotion or plot and just go "this was a bad storyline because author did not respect the math. The MATH, man!". So you start getting accusations of bad writing or Mary Sue writing. Or they use terms like "plot induced stupidity", which is when characters do anything but act like cold, emotionless machines designed to win fights, because they are busy having needs and wants like a normal human, so they fail to repeat previous feats they should be able to do every time.
Lex Luthor runs for president and wins because he gets votes, why didn't superman just punch him, pis superman could easily have over thrown the US government and made himself god King only reason he didn't was so the plot could happen.
I mean the consistency of a character's power level should obviously be well, consistent? Having adult Goku get hurt by bullets when as a child they don't scratch him, is just dumb and confuses readers. Like I get what you are saying about people being nerds but the powerscaling in-universe should at least be coherent.
To be fair, I am a believer that yes, power scaling generally SHOULD be somewhat self consistent. Specially in more plot centered arcs and action scenes. Otherwise you get thrown off by very stupid writing and lose any real sense of stakes and expectations. The biggest, most flagrant example of this being CW's The Flash. A good story also needs to keeps its own rules somewhat consistent to a degree so as to not require far too much suspencion of disbelief to become watchable. It can also become super jarring if a character with a destructive potential to crack islands with their own normal punches suddenly can't even bust a wall with no given explanation for that. That would be awful magic system writing unless you have deliberately written the strength level associated with it to be utterly random for some reason. That said, stories also don't need to have total 100% accuracy and consistency like these nerds demand to have. You should allow yourself to have some bit of narrative freedom and flexibility or otherwise there would no story at all to begin with.
I saw a kid in an invincible comment section saying “Hulk solos the whole verse” even though hulk wasn’t mentioned in the video nor’ the comment section.
Honestly? Power Scaling’s just been taken so seriously that it’s just not fun anymore, one of my fav matchups before this was ruined for me was comparing anime to comic characters, I had evidence to say which would win and which would lose, I’ve gotten threatened over this, roasted and even ridiculed for not “knowing enough” when those were the same people who struggled to draw those conclusions anyway just based off their materials alone, I won’t be getting more into that. And to top it all off, THESE ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, nobody is getting hurt or actually dying here, it’s characters on a piece of paper, grow up already, it’s a hobby that many people are thankfully checking out of by now.
Powerscaling Debates almost ALWAYS lead to just insults. It's like the primal feeling of Conflict takes over you during the argument and leads to getting unironically angry over a fictional character
My biggest problem with power scaling is the wasted potential. We have an entire community of objectively skilled media analyzers spending all their time and effort on the most useless way to compare and contrast media. I originally liked One Punch Man cause it seemed like the anime industry finally taking the piss out of the obnoxious power scaling fans. Only for OPM to simply be added to the pool of constantly debated characters.
Even characters like Bugs Bunny and Popeye are unironically powerscaled in certain scenarios. It's almost impossible for an anime to have some kind of action sequence and not get powerscaled.
@@callmeaweeb4169Depends on how seriously the writers take it JoJo is literally whatever the writer feels is cooler. Since season 3 the whole point is "random bs GO!" But in a show that takes it more seriously, like DBZ (despite the fact that they have the most boring "power scaling" in any show i have seen) it is very possible to do so effectively. And DBZ is probably the source of this for that reason.
@@rompevuevitos222 Ironically Dragon Ball takes power scaling even less seriously than the stuff you mebtioned. Quite literally, the only reason power levels as a concept were introduced was solely to prove that it was an idiotic way of thinking. Stuff like that has no place in a world where characters can grow stronger/weaker on a whim.
I’ve BEEN saying this!!! For example, DeathBattle would take a scene where a character punches with the force of a thousand nukes, and use that to say that they will win a fight. But they will complete ignore scenes where that same character struggles to fight a couple street thugs.
Agreed with all your points and I would like to add a fourth one: variables. Who could be who isn't an absolute because it depends on a lot of factor: Batman usually can win against Superman because Superman doesn't like killing and would hold back, not to mention Batman has the benefit of having worked with him and knowing how he operates (an advantage he usually wouldn't have against a fresh new opponent he never met before). These alone alter the direction of the fight. Fights do not just take raw inchangeable facts into account: you'd have to take into account how much time both characters had to prepare, how they're feeling at the moment, the field where they're fighting, the conditions for winning, and many more. Much like in reality, who would win in a fight isn't something that constant, it can and will change depending on tons of factors unless the difference in power between the two is truly massive.
Batman would definetly not fight superman either? Except if sups was evil or something like in Injustice. But you are not wrong in some very specific situations batman could beat him. But i never get those arguments. I thought in those "Who wins in a fight" arguments are supposed to be fair. Stupidly unfair ones are just annoying. So yeah i guess Batman could beat Goku if the saiyan was sleeping after eating poisoned food lol😂.
In vs debating it is always assumed that it’s an equal fight. Flat and neutral terrain, no preparation time and both start out in their peak condition. Kinda like how professional sports matches go (except for the final part, you can hardly do anything about it).
I like powerscaling vids when its just like a podcast style discussion of 3 people who are clearly just riffing coming up with crazy scenarios and making each other laugh. Feels like its closer to the vibe of actually talking about this with your friends to pass the time y'know?
Crazy scenarios is the best part of powerscaling vids "Wobbuffet powerscales above goku" is correct but only because it techincally always hits twice as hard as the enemy
Yeah, this is the true essence of power scaling. Well, it is also very fun to make people mad on the internet, half of the reason I have ever dabbled in powerscaling is because arguing with dumb people can occasionally be really fun.
What I hate about powerscalers is when they cherry pick one feat of a character that they performed once in the entire story and never done anything close to that but the scaler will claim the character is that level. For example Kakashi managed to cut a lightning strike in half once therefore we should think Kakashi can casually move around at the speed of light all the time which is clearly not something he does.
I love when any discussion about any sci fi universe gets immediately derailed by doom fans who want you to know doom guy beats the universe you're talking about. Cool but we ain't talking about doom so why are you bringing it up
@@valentinvas6454 Don't you love it when someone cleaves through a mountain, then has to prepare an attack to punch through a wall (granted, she had to prepare the mountain-bust more)?
my favorite logic of powerscalers is "they dodged/blocked a lazer/lightning bolt, this means they are faster then light" like how the TMNT and fumikage from mha are both faster then light but this logic only applies to defense and they can't transfer this speed into beating someone into a pulp in a nanosecond or throwing a light speed punch at someone
If that was all at accurate speeds, then anime would literally suck lol. Sure it would be cool to see a character move so fast and deck a character in the face, but an anime consisting of ENTIRELY that gets stale.
lmaoo thats so true! some ppl ACTUALY believe this, its complete INSANITY! i saw one youtube video once saying that spider man is faster than light because he dodged an gunshot that blasted a lighting at his direction.
I think the worst part about power scaling is that it is inherently illogical. Any universe in which a human can get punched through a brick wall, get up, and keep fighting, with little more than brief cosmetic damage, means that human's biology and that brick walls intermolecular forces are both different than our own, and different than every other force. If faster than light travel is possible, that universe has laws of physics that are incompatible with our own universe, and likely all other universes. Any character who can move faster than mach 2.2 without the air around them spontaneously combusting due to aerodynamic heating, lives in a world were friction and all the physics surrounding it do not operate like our own, and not like any other world. If you have a character that can lift a plane or a bus from a single point on the fuselage, or a single seam in the body, the ramifications for all of the components in the materials that make those things break all of the mechanical laws that govern how metal and other materials react under stress, pressure, heat, etc. We don't know much much force exists in 1 KT of TNT in any world but our own. These characters don't exist in our own world, and their world all clearly are governed by different physical laws. Reducing these to mathematical equivalents in our world is meaningless, they do not, can not convert. The moment you throw one law of physics out the window, you throw all laws of physics out the window. You now exist in worlds with incompatible mechanical laws and you have no way of knowing if the bus that Vegeta threw at Goku is in any way comparable to the one that Superman threw at Doomsday, or even how many foot pounds of force the bullet that bounced off them both contained. There is no way to compare worlds with different physics, no mater how mathematical and scientific a person tries to make it sound.
@@noobking2335 maybe don't make a scaling system based on real life while using it to compare characters who live in worlds that obviously are different from ours and even eachothers' next time
Honestly yeah, some of the stuff i like exists in worlds where things are so fundamentally different from our own and other works of fiction that it's just pointless trying to compare them at all
Power Scaling is a joke. I was reading the Power Scaling wiki, and found that Cloud Strife (whom I absolutely love) was “Multi-Galaxy, likely Multiversal” by the end of Disc 3 of the original game. Knowing Cloud, I was like “What crack are they smoking?” I love Cloud, but no. So I posted what I found on the Power Scaling Reddit, saying how crazy it was. It was immediately taken down. No explanation, didn’t break any rules. Then I looked at the mods. Only two of them, and one of them runs the wiki pages for Power Scaling. I’m guessing he took it personally. Listen, Cloud should be level 8, at Most level 6 if Bahamut Zero’s cool ass Teraflare actually did damage according to its animation (it doesn’t)…But someone pushing him up to Multi-Galaxy, much less Multiversal?! Yeah, Power Scaling is a joke, because whoever writes the Wiki is on that crank shit.
Sorry, its not a joike cause you dont understand it and this really deosntrbaly worng video here... means jacks-it... but hey, if you wanna be ajoke who suffers from dunning kruger effe,t go on.. Won't change a fliippin thing, people still pwoerscale and they would still do so even if the arguments in this video didnt boil down to 'Me not understnad scaling, hoho' and you being likee a flat-earther saying "HAAAAAAA! NASA IS SO STUPIDDDD"
@@gespenst1329 Yeahh, im not even gonna argue how silly what you just said is. The powerscale-communtiy is healthy as ever and your metric of measurement being 'some random FORUMS' is hilarious. But whatveer: pwoersclaing will never be juvenile just cause this non-argument-filled video here badddlyyy-pretended it dto be, so yeah: Logic tells us powersclaing would be good and improving even if it had died. So even if your cringe claim its dead or dying is true: well, thern lets bring it right back, duh. Videos like this are the 'Peak of Arguments against it' and i can easily debunk everyone of them - so what do they got? Let me guess, dunning kruger effect? I mean, thats what Stan Lee has. Guy has never in his life gotten Powersclaing explained to him so his NON-ARGUMENT (man, im really overusing this term, huh?) would of course be silly lie "You wanna know who wins in a fight? THE AUTHOR DECIDESSSS" Thx for your Wisedom, Mr Dunnung Kruger
@@gespenst1329 This youtuber has debunked powersclaing so hard every actual real powersclaer went "HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. TGhis guy doesnt know what hes talking about. Its like Kent Hovind debunking Evolution" Powerscaling is amazing, dude. It keeps the brain stimulted: this ALONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE makes it 'worth doing'.
@@slevinchannel7589 It’s fundamentally a playground argument. But whatever, there’s parts of the internet where it’s just not a thing at all, so it’s no concern of mine.
As someone who used to watch a lotta Death Battle. I’ll say their power scaling “science” is just to throw a bunch of random big numbers and use random feats, often times ignoring the full context, to justify it. ( my favorite being them saying the Dragonborn is faster then the speed of light because he can fire an arrow that blocks out the sun)
I'd like to present if you don't mind my own idea. I think Death Battle honestly aims more for entertainment than they do appeasing power scalers and versus battle obsessives and part of it is how they present the science where it's more about the insanity than anything. For example how they used the cheese wheel to point out Dragonborn's absurd strength. On a strict forum? You'd see a very dry rundown of why he's so strong but for DB knowing how dull that would be? They decided to go for something fun.
Death Battle, imo, has a habit of making the right characters win for all the wrong reasons. As a skyrim fan. I def have my dragonborn beliefs. Dude doesn't follow conventional time or space. Speed is Distance(an intrinsic aspect of space) over time ellapsed. If you don't follow conventional time(conventional being how time of that world works). The aspect of time that makes up speed ceases to matter. You either do everything instantly or take however much time you want. If space doesn't matter to you, then distance doesn't. You can close or make any amount of distance instantly or however fast or slow you want. You essentially have infinite speed which can definitely put you above light speed, if you want it to. But if they started saying things like this while doing death Battles then I think it'll turn off alot of their viewers who don't rly care about allat big brained talk.
Lmao Auriels Bow is literally a weapon of the chief god of the divines. It's supposed to be super powerful, but I could give it to some random guard. Would that mean he's also a faster-than-light entity?
@@n1rvana_ I think that right there gets into why with DB, it's mostly entertainment because if they started saying things like this? I'm not gonna lie, the interest won't be there because even reading this, this kind of has the same energy as when someone hits a blunt and says something that sounds vaguely profound and you just have no idea what the fuck they just said. Couple that with how unless you're into it, most versus debates honestly range from boring to what the video said about them sometimes being the equivalent of "My dad can beat up your dad!" arguments and it makes sense why they do it based more on entertainment and showing off how when you apply real science to fictional characters? It gets stupid what they're capable of.
Not to mention they can be biased too. Perfect example would be boba fett vs predator where they took a random predator, gave it the skills of an elder, and put it up against legends boba 💀. Already it was an unfair matchup and a better one would’ve been scar from concrete jungle against boba.
As a Power Scaler, I can confirm that I get no women. Tho I prefer calm debating and powerscaling over people attacking each other and getting all personal like doxxing.
Fellow powerscaler, specifically for mainly nintendo and sega characters, and I must say there is no such thing as a "calm debate" in those sections of the internet, even if you're at peak respect. So unless you're debating with a saint you get screamed at and insulted.
Still gotta love how death battle made DIO of all characters faster than a being travelling between planets or a magic arrow reaching the sun after being fired. All of their dbc are filled with people throwing around multiversal for at best street level characters. Its madness. Deathbattle is the prime example of how actually looking at the media in question obliterates 99% of powerscaling arguments.
@@superbrainz2357Death Battle takes characters at their best. Anything they’ve ever done is on the table in a death battle. It’s why someone like Superman is so highly rated over there (And now I have to mention he’s only fought Goku and also mention I’m not saying Goku would win and I’m just gonna stop there) Death Battle rarely gets anything wrong in their own rules, but because of their rules it isn’t a good place to learn/judge power scaling on, which is unfortunate given that it is so well known
@@XD_ist That's true but the issue is them being very inconsistent (saying they dont like anti feats and outliers yet using them to justify a character who was superior in the analysis to lose) with everything that characters can use often leading to a very warped view of a character and can oftentimes break the very setting of the stories they're in. We can have bowser going from tanking black holes and falling into stars to supposedly dying from a fall and lava one time as a reason to try and justify him losing to Ganon. Star platinum can punch with three million tons of force but nah his non canon ova feat of the building was the best he can go and DIO the guy he beat can actually move several hundred times faster than him lmao. Scout can tank 3 rockets to the face, oh wait now he can't (please ignore the superior strength feats we mentioned earlier). I remember how a thor editor went wtf when shown the stats in thor vs vegeta and said it was a very gross overestimation of thor's capabilities. I like their animations but it really is a shame their "research" is as popular and wide spread as it is because a lot of smaller vs channels are going with much lower but far more reasonable calcs.
5:12 To be fair, that kind of thing happens a lot in media unintentionally. Like the Flash being able to go into Flash time when at that point his max was 500mph in S1 Ep2. The Death Battle Crew even discussed that type of discrepancy between the author's intended strength of a character and the technical strength of a character. The most common example they brought up was when a character that's supposed to be relatively grounded moves clouds with an attack. Let's just say that moving clouds are far more impressive than any writer would know beforehand. Death Battle kind of *have* to take those feats into account otherwise the character's proponents are going to call bias of denying their character a potenially outcome saving feat.
And to be fair, it comes with the territory of analyzing fictional characters based on real science and calculations. Because an author focuses on what looks cool or fits for a story, it means even the most human characters can have some broken qualities to them which in that case? I think it's best to take it in stride and have fun with it. For instance, a subject with Death Battle people miss is that it's mostly for entertainment. The analysis sections and so on show this because it's not a dry rundown of everyone's feats, it's a back-and-forth between a mad scientist and a gun leg sporting beer-lover going over a character's story while cracking jokes along the way. It's why in part I'd say they get lax with stuff like say compositing or whatever, because the freedom to explore some of the more insane factoids just makes for more fulfilling fun videos then just sitting there as one guy just drones on about how X is FTL because they avoided a laser and yada yada yada.
@zzodysseuszz I don't mean slowing down, I mean completely frozen. He had a full confession to Iris and she heard nothing, saw nothing and the sugar she was putting in her tea was completely still. That's not 500mph
@@The0-2DemonKing and also the time he basically stopped a nuke for like 6 hours of flash time and some episodes later they are like you are 80 times slower than the speed of light and a couple seasons later they are like "yep, your maximun is mach 10"
I always thought the death battle calculations sounded absurd. You're applying real life physics to a cartoon essentially. The people who wrote it were not thinking about it like that.
Also, most people don't really know much about the physics involved anyway. If you ask people how much a boulder/mountain/planet/star weighs, most people would be way off.
The death battle calculations that I have seen are questionable. That one with Jolene is really off. If a car drives into someone and when they collide, the front of the car is totaled, does that mean that the person could hit the car and do that when it's stationary? No If we apply that thinking to the meteors, we find that no she did not punch with that much force, the combo of the super fast meteors and her punch together had that total force.
@@fluppet2350death battle interpreted it wrong, as it's more a durability feat than anything. Just because the meteor has that much energy, doesn't mean it takes the same energy to break it.
It's both. The idea of scaling isn't cringe. It's just a ladder of consistency basically. As a writer, it's even important for the suspension of disbelief that one character does not suddenly and without explanation exceed their ordinary level of power. But the current system is in fact cringe. On Omniversal Battlefield, the literal first rule of powerscaling is that nothing can ever scale down. This already destroys any and all credibility it might've had. So if a character once survives a nuke but also gets hurt by bullets, we're now going to pretend he's island level rather than below wall level? According to powerscaling, the answer is yes. And that's how beings being scaled like Kratos or Dante appear.
@@TheStraightestWhitest I think a little differently. Powerscaling is important for writers to correctly structure fights and how a character overcomes feats that exceed him. If you don’t, the result is the CW’s Flash which has the man who can move faster than light losing to a guy with an ice gun. Also I think we can agree when we say that the cringy edits are garbage
power scaling is fun until a nerd is like well this "character" punched a hole in the ground in that one episode which means he can one shot "other character" with zero effort . they don't even accept the fact that consistency matters if he can one shot "other character" than how did he not one shot a normal dude like what.
Love it when the power scaler breaks out the physic calculators to claim that a character moves at the speed of light without the implications of an object the size of a human moving at the speed of light through air would mean.
If that "human" could even survive going that fast I imagine atmosphere around them would combust and create nuclear explosion wiping out whole city they are fighting in, vaporizing all the people they tried to save in just a fraction of a second, but the vilian would die too I guess
There's many characters that are LS canonically and they doesn't make any sense either, even some like the Flash makes no sense at all. Also if you want to be more technical, no object with mass can reach LS anyway
If we're talking about an object moving at _exactly_ the Speed of Light, then *any* object with mass moving at that speed would theoretically have infinite energy and thus would consequentially "break" the universe in one convoluted singularity that I do not even want to give myself the brain exploding effort to visualize here. But let us set speed or relativistic physics aside for a second. Just their basic, highschool level of Newtonian Physics already has absurdly wack implications when you break down many of their calculated strength feats. Free Stone's meteor punching feat posessing a grand total of 441 Kilotons of TNT would have *nuked* the entire city she's in to oblivion via just the shockwave from the impact alone. Just to give an idea besides the A-Bomb example already mentioned, 441 Kilotons of TNT is also the energy displaced equivalent of a *Magnitude 7 earthquake!* Characters should realistically be causing a laughable amount of colateral damage to their surroundings with most of their common physical attacks. Yet they don't because.... reasons?
My favorite part about power scaling is that every character in current one piece is actually moving faster than light because one guy dodged a laser one time.
Also when they use the kinetic energy equation E = 1/2 mv² with values of v close to or greater than the speed of light. Or generally using any classical mechanics equations or either a sub atomic scale, or on a faster than light scale. The biggest issue with versus battles are the terrible usage of physics. It's awesome that so many kids are interested in physics, and it's cool for them to be doing those calculations themselves with the stuff they learned in their grade 11 physics class. But it's annoying as hell how arrogant some get about it without realizing how hopelessly wrong they are.
I love who would wins but it’s super silly You’ll have a character that’s like tree level that fights street tier robots but some promotional comic from 25 years ago has a single panel where they jump out of a way from a laser beam and then all of a sudden he’s scaled faster than light and pinned against some anime waifu that juggles moons while she’s sleeping and he still somehow wins
It feels really weird seeing people try to scale sonic, because not too long ago most people agreed that he was faster than sound, maybe around light in base form, but now he is super duper multiversal+ and also solos dragon ball because in X Game people don't like he was able to defeat Super Galactic Gigashart the Commander of the Shittrons who can eat universes for some reason even though it's barely elaborated on. Oh and he also defeated him not with raw power but with the chaos emeralds or some random macguffin in the game. This somehow translates into him beating goku because idk he did that, even though we never see him actually exert that power at all and he still rarely goes faster than light. I've seen people pull out "evidence" for why sonic is multiversal and it would literally be shit from books and manuels for 8 year olds and expect me to take them seriously
@@derekg5006I'm not going to lie, for me I've always seen Goku superior to Sonic in the sense of ferocity and animated battles, the fact is that Sonic was said to be at the speed of sound or speed of light indeed and seeing Dragon Ball wasn't in comparison and my brain was really off, I've learned what powerscale was (more or less in 6 months) and it's frankly crap, even if it can be true and all, I miss the time when few people dwelt on it or did it but just by speculation and without calculation saying "his infinity level is superior to his" but it was chill or not worse than right now. we can imagine someone say in dbz there were antagonists like "invincible" like Frieza on namek stated by vegeta but just because he was beaten that thus logic doesn't work, where as you could say that goku is infinite just cuz he won, I mean it's just a dick contest because the author has highlighted the powers better and as long as he wants to lower the power level of the latter it wouldn't be a problem, like dbs things and fr I don't watch anymore with so many errors and nonsense, but yeah I regret having known that
This video really hits the nail on the head. This became real to me when Death Battle mentioned that Superman has lifted infinity before and once carried an entire solar system somewhere else. It just makes no sense. Comics especially have been around so long that every famous superhero has killed the entire Justice League by themselves at least once.
If I’m remembering correctly, Stone Free became stronger after Joylne was put into solitary confinement. She focused on her mental strength for the duration of her isolation, which increased the strength of the stand. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not saying she can punch with the power of a nuke haha.
