I didn't know about the set screw, I would have mentioned the lack of paint on the reciever of the post 64. It was not a durable coating and I often see them blued and the reciever takes a plum color.
The "plum color" is quite common in Model 1894s in the 2,700,000- 3,185,691 serial number range. These correlate to receivers made (but not necessarily assembled) from 1964-1968. The post-64 receivers used a "graphitic steel" casting that did not accept the Du-Lite 3-0 bluing process, used by Winchester at that time, without discoloration. The Du-lite process had been in use since 1940. This discoloration causes no functional problems and the receivers are perfectly functional and safe. It is not a matter of "durability" but simply a chemical reaction that caused the discoloration. Colors can range from a coppery tone to plum red. From 1968 to 1972 (until serial number 3,806,499) Winchester used a black chrome plating finish, sometimes the black chrome can be seen to "fleck off" and appear "freckled". Winchester went back to the Du-Lite Oxiblak in 1972 until Winchester production ended in 1981 (When the company was purchased by US Repeating Arms Co.). Rifles made by USRACO used 4144 steel alloy and would polish and blue normally. After they went back to the Du-Lite Oxiblak finish, they first iron plated the receivers so the metal would accept the finish better BUT, some of those still exhibit the "plum" color. Often times, when a rifle was re-blued the gunsmith would polish off the iron plating and attempt to reblue the rifle using a normal bluing process, this could also result in distorted colors. So check your serial numbers, guys... 1964-1968 2,700,000 - 3,185,691 Du-Lite 3-0 Process (plum color is common) 1968-1972 3,185,692 - 3,806,499 Black Chrome Plate (flecking is common) 1972-1981 3,806,500 - 5,024,957 Win Blue/Oxiblak (plum color not as common but still present in some rifles, especially if reblued)
@@oldschool3484 Right, after Winchester was bought by USRACO (1981) they went to a forged 4144 steel alloy receiver which was machined. They take bluing in the normal manner.
Similar for me. May dad bought his new at a western auto store when he was 13. It's a 1951. Wonderful grayish patina and the wood is worn but absolutely rich as can be.
Good video Sir 👍🏻 Another subtle difference in pre-64 vs post-64 is in the lever itself in the profile just behind the trigger where the lever interacts with the "grip safety" as well as where the lever hooks to the carrier. Also, the post-64 lever pivot pin slot is sort of banana shaped where the pre-64 slot is more or less straight. The shape of the slot and profile of the lever on the post-64 lever allows the lever to "droop" slightly with the action closed if you aren't gripping the lever tight to the tang, thus not depressing the little button that allows the trigger to be pulled. On a pre-64, all that is required to depress the trigger safety is for the action to be completely closed. It does not require your hand to squeeze the lever to the tang to depress the trigger safety. I have a Win 94 Big Bore in 375 Winchester, made around 1980. It came with a large loop lever which I'm not a fan of. I installed a pre-64 lever and it only required a few minutes of minor grinding where it interacts with the carrier to function properly. If you remove both levers and compare them closely side by side, you will see the subtle differences. Carry on Sir!
I have a 1973 Win 94 It is smooth as butter, loads great and easy, accurate, and handy. I am the second owner, the prior owner kept this rifle in the back window of his pick up, he was a deer hunter. So the finish is cold rust blued. To me owning a 1964 would only be for bragging rights.
I have a Winchester model 94 Centennial 66 30-30 unfired. Box and papers included. I inherited it from my father. I had to shoot it, only because I don't want to own a gun that doesn't go Bag. Fired 10 rounds through it. Very accurate for a 55 yrs old rifle.👍
Hello, Really enjoy your videos. Maybe you can help me...My father owns a ‘57 model 94 30/30. He bought it in ‘57 with his first Air Force paycheck, and still has the receipt. He says I’ll inherit it, but won’t let me fire it now!! At any rate, the action is REALLY tight. I did some polishing and lube for him, and it’s improved somewhat, but still stiff. Is this just due to age (and the fact that it’s had less than 20 rounds fired since ‘57).? Or are those known for a tight action (cocking)? Thanks! Chris
Thanks for the reply! Like i mentioned, a clean and lube helped somewhat, but what I failed to mention in my last post was that it seems most of the difficulty happens when the hammer is being pushed back. With the action already cocked (hammer back) there doesn’t seem to be abnormal resistance. So I thought maybe the hammer spring or whatever else moves while pushing the hammer back might be the issue. I don’t know much about the behavior of 50-year-old springs to know if they can get stiff and tighten.
The springs will weaken over time, not the reverse. If you are comfortable removing the bolt and hammer, you could examine the surfaces that contact on the cocking stroke and see if they need a little smoothing. Otherwise, just put a little grease on the nose of the hammer and the underside of the bolt. That will probably make a huge difference by itself.
I can't speak for 94's, but I've got both pre and post 1964 winchester 88s and apart from the stock checkering, the post 64s are the better rifle, mechanically.
The rifle arrived today and I dialed in the scope just a couple hours ago ru-vid.comUgkxQt2uORDRfFOVSrO4idv4B90ThT6EOnEL . I haven’t shot with a scope in probably 25 years. The X on the left was my target. (the shot almost in the bullseye on the right X was my father in laws first shot after I made adjustments) The two shots circled are my first 2 shots. Then I brought it down - shot once. Then brought it over to the left. From there zeroed it in to dead center. This all was from 25 yards out. Follow instructions carefully when mounting the scope. So far I'm very happy with the purchase.
I just came across your video on the pre-post 64. 30 years ago I inherited a 1967 in 32 Winchester special from my dad. It is in excellent shape. It was his deer rifle and was always taken care of. But as some have said , not a very popular caliber . My father stated it was the only lever action Winchester the small sporting goods shop had, so he bought it. He never complained about the caliber. Before that he hunted with 12 gauge slugs. Thank you for a very good video
Companies often go through good times and bad and often the name remains the same despite the owners changing. I find the new Browning Winchesters made in Miroku to be very well made. I hope the CZ purchase of Colt can bring that name back to greatness.
@chad Buy what you want, but you are wrong on both counts. Sorry, but you have fallen for propaganda. Industries all over the world seek out Japanese steel because it is known for extremely high quality. The best quality CNC machines are also Japanese. It isn't 1950 anymore.
@@catfart879 Sounds like you’re mad that the Japanese are making these old American rifles better than they ever were. They are made to the original drawings, except for the saftey on the tang.
Haha! I've been chasing the holy grail my whole life, and now that I have one, and have made the part by part comparison, I would buy a cheaper 1965 over the 1955.
@@TargetSuite You might want to take a closer look at a 65 before saying that. There is more to the 94 than just pre or post 64. There were many changes over the years. In 1970 they made improvements over the 64-69 years. Including metal and wood quality and finish as well as the cheap stamped steel lifter. I have many 94s from various years (including a 55 and a 71), and they’re all great, but I have no interest in any made from 64 to 69.
Thank you. Great video. My forte. And one of the reasons I like your channel. You cover a lot of the older guns that others ignore. Your summary is exactly correct. In practical terms there is no difference between the pre-64 models and later models. In collector terms, there are. I am a Winchester collector, mostly lever rifles, but also a few semi-autos and bolt rifles. Winchester Model 70s get all the "press" when it comes to "Pre-64" models. And Winchester DID completely ruin the Model 70 in 1964...in my opinion. The result was not even a Model 70 in my opinion. But many Winchester models got the accountant's axe in 1964. The Model 12 was dropped entirely. They did come out with the Model 12Y and they did occasionally make runs of Japanese made Model 12s which were of very high quality and followed the original design. (as do the Japanese made models of older lever designs) Winchester eventually made good on the Model 70 name and those made more recently are excellent quality with the features that made the Model 70 famous... As far as lever guns go...which by 1964 was only the Model 94...other lever models had already been discontinued. The changes to the Model 94 were minor. IMO, and I own several of both pre-64 and post-64 models, the changes are negligible in functional purposes. Unlike the Model 70 that was changed hugely in function. However, collectors (being collectors) value the pre-64 models higher. So you will pay more for and the pre-64 gun will be worth more. At least for now. 50 years from now? Who knows? WARNING Opinionated opinion to follow Winchester waited a while to completely ruin the Model 94. They did that when they made it "angle eject" and then later added a cross bolt safety to block the hammer (in an attempt to "fix" stupid people) just to make it worse. I am of the correct opinion that cluttering up a handy lever gun with a scope, right where you would hold it with one hand to carry it, is ridiculous. Lever guns should have receiver sights (peep sights) or a bolt mounted peep. There is no need for "angle eject" It was a perfect solution to a problem that never existed. The safety was unnecessary and there was no safety issue if you lowered the hammer CORRECTLY and kept the gun pointed in a safe direction (as one ALWAYS should). I think my father taught me the correct way to "de-cock" a Model 94 by the time I was 8. I have not added any of these abominations to my collection. Despite being a Winchester collector and having strong, but correct, opinions about them...I must confess that my favorite deer hunting rifle of all time is a Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage. With a peep sight, of course. 😁
Thanks for your comprehensive comment. I was a little "worried" about the conclusion based on my somewhat limited hands on experience with Model 94s in general and only one pre-64 model 94. I've handled a new Model 70 and Model 94 from Japan and like the Miroku lever guns I own, they are stunning rifles.
@@TargetSuite I have more 94/64/1894 rifles in my collection than any other, mostly because they have been the most common and most economical to collect in the last 50 years. BUT, they are not my favorite Winchesters or my favorite lever gun. I much prefer anything but an 1894/94/64. Model 1892s, 1895s, 1886s and Model 71s are much better...and the Savage 99 is my all time favorite lever gun (I know, blasphemy!)😁 Miroku makes superb quality firearms. Their Winchester models are outstanding and the Miroku Model 71 I own is probably the most accurate rifle I own, bar none! And that is from a rifle and cartridge not known for great accuracy! And with only a peep sight! I would strongly encourage anyone who loves Winchesters (like I do) to buy one of the Miroku models if you want a gun for shooting and hunting. I dare say, they are even better made than originals! I own Miroku/Winchester Models 71, 1886, 1895 and Model 12s. I also own originals of all of those, but usually the Mirokus go to the range with me. Unless you just want to have a collectible, or a rifle chambered in one of the obsolete cartridges no longer made...the Miroku/Winchesters will serve you much better. And, for that matter, I own a couple of the more recently made Model 70s and they are every bit as good as a pre-64, and maybe even better. (dare I say it?) If you check out the RU-vid channel "Leverguns50" you will see that gentleman loads up some incredible combinations for use in the Miroku/Winchester Models 1886 and 71. A testament to their strength. (I do not use those loads myself, if I need an elephant rifle, I use an...elephant rifle.) FYI...we have had -0- problems with elephants in our garden ever since I got that Model 70 Safari Express .375 H&H. And my wife wondered why I "needed" an elephant rifle! Ha!!! Showed her!
I'm a big fan of Leverguns 50. He's commented in this video giving a hint about what's up next on his channel. I'll just say, it's another Miroku Winchester😉
@@TargetSuite He has a great channel and covers a lot of Winchester/Miroku guns. I don't have the nerve to try the loads he does, nor do I have a reason to. TBH, I tend to go the other way and have made up light loads so my Grandsons could shoot their great-great grandfather's 1895 rifles in .35 WCF and .405 WCF. Cast lead .357 and .41 mag bullets and light charges of Unique powder with a cornmeal filling produce little recoil and an 8-10 year old can handle them. I don't hunt anymore due to arthritis in my back. I just can't walk too much anymore, so I use my guns for fun range shooting. Light loads are more fun. Although one of my favorite photos is of my wife which I snapped the moment she looked at me after she fired a full power Hornady 300 gr. .405 round in the Model 1895 for the first time. 😲
After spending years of collecting pre Remington Marlins due to not liking the post 64s, I finally got to a point in my life that I purchased a collection that an elderly man was looking to liquidate. It was all lever guns built from 1889 up to 1932. I now have the bug...... The story behind Oliver Winchester s venture from smith and Wesson up to John Moses browning influence in these superb rifles intrigues me, and makes me appreciate the love they put into these great rifles. Change is not always good. Thank you so much for this video.
Thanks for the comment! Wow! You went from just approaching the on-ramp to the fast lane in the blink of an eye. Congratulations! I'm definitely a Marlin fan, but not at the expense of my appreciation of all that historic "Winchester" stood for. And I don't know if you have watched many of my other videos, but in addition to this pre-64 '94, I have three current production Winchesters that are made by Miroku in Japan. Their quality meets or exceeds that of the best old guns. So as shooters, they are awesome, but they have zero "history".
My father purchased a Winchester 30-30 in 1957, the year of my birth; it's in excellent condition and is proudly on display in my gun case. It's a fine weapon, and, yes, I still shoot it from time to time. Thanks for sharing.
There was a period of time when Remington, Winchester, Savage and Marlin were at War competing for deer rifle sales. Remington was selling 760 Game Masters at discount stores for $99 to $120 dollars. You could buy Model 600 Mohawks for $69 dollars. Winchester was selling Model 94 models with receivers made with anodized aluminum. You could buy a Marlin 336 or model 94 Winchester for less than $100 dollars. Large discount stores went into the gun selling business and put a lot of little gun shops out of business. Winchester stopped making Model 12 guns and switched to using anodized aluminum receivers that few liked. One big mistake that cost them a loss in sales to Remington. There was a serious loss in quality of lots of good gun designs. When they increased production to fill the orders to discount chain stores quality took a dive. Most small gun shops refused to service guns they didn’t sell. Along with shoddy made guns came shoddy made scopes and mounts. Leupold scopes didn’t quite start out with a good reputation. The first one I bought lasted one shot from my BDL Remington 7mm mag. The reticle disappeared from one shot and I bought Weaver and Redfield after that and didn’t trust buying another Leupold for years. Weaver, Lyman, Redfield, and Bushnell made scopes in America unlike today. Some of the guns of the good old days were not so good.
I bought one of those discount store rifles in 1966 or 67. Better yet, my mother bought it for me. A Remington 760 in 270 Winchester. I think she paid $130.
As you described, some of the new Super Stores in the late '70's began selling mass produced guns at 20-30% under fire arm shops. Regarding Winchester 94's (30-30) I purchased one with a swirl grained fantastic walnut stock and bright blueing for $88. The internals, along with the lift gate seemed to be just thin almost pressed style metal. When I finally took it out to shoot, it was a tack driver. One of my newer friends just wanted it so bad, and wanted to get into hunting, so I sold it to him. Later, one day at the range, the metal bracket holding the firing pin in the bolt broke, which soured both him and me. I purchased a '58 Model 94 years later, and it is all very high quality steel. This particular rifle had a period2 1/2 X 3/4 inch LER scope, and had been sighted in dead on at 200 yards using 150 grain Remington ammo. Somebody had amped up his game for a big buck back in the day; wished I could have me him.
winchester never made receivers for the 94 out of aluminum ever. what you're referring to are the series of rifles made in the years just after 64 that were made from a graphitic steel casting see here direct from Du-Lite themselves: du-lite.com/blackening-post-64-winchester-receivers/
Well in 1967 I bought a Winchester Model 1200 with anodized aluminum receiver that everyone criticizes. I used it for many years and put hundreds of rounds through it. Due to my leaving it in it’s the steel barrel rusted and pitted badly but the receiver was fine. So I bought a new barrel in the 80s and away it went again. I bought my son a well used 71 model 94. I refinished the wood and used brush on blueing and it looked great. The stock appeared to be Mahogany but no problem. He did have trouble with the loading gate bending which was noted in this video but a gunsmith fixed that at a very reasonable cost. My son didn’t hunt for a few years so I bought a long eye relief pistol scope and had a gunsmith install the mounts. It was a good rifle for a lever placing 100 yard groups in 2-3 in. With the Hornady spite point ammo it closed those. So in my experience the post 64 Model 94 and 1200 were fine firearms. My son still has both.
Absoultely go for the pre 64. I have shot of few of the post guns, and there is no comparison. My uncle hammer forged barrels for Winchester for 30 years (1950 to 1980) and he told me if you are looking for a good 94, but a pre64. he should know. He made them.
I just inherited an 1894 from my wife's grandfather, all original in 38-55 WCF with the octoganal barrel, manufactured in 1898 according to the serial number. These are such cool rifles and I love it already!
Good job. Interesting you did a video on the 32 special I have one coming out later this week, the modern made in Japan Winchester 94 is actually made better than the pre-64
That's great. I can't wait to see that video. I've watched a couple of your other videos on the 32 Win Spl. They primed me for "settling" on one for myself. Have you seen the Buffalo Bore 200gr. cast bullets. 2200 fps ! ! ! Also, I've been looking at a Miroku Model 94 (30-30) in Shreveport. They are really nice. Certainly nicer than any domestic Winchesters I have seen.
I have two winchesters 94's one made in 1971, and someone took steel wool to the barrel . I picked it up at a pawn shop 15 years ago (+/-) that looked like crap. $300 Got it pretty cheap. I had it cerakoted black and put a red fiber optic up front, $125 it looks great, total cost $425, everybody wants to buy it, NOPE it is my pig and deer gun for the river swamp, and the other is made in 1981. someone had got it for christmas and put it in the closet and left it for 35 years it is mint, two different pawn shops. I have the same money in both of them. The shop owner had a couple pre 64's he wanted high dollar for, I told him good luck with that
I hope that the 32 Win Special makes a strong comeback. It’s a great caliber and a pleasure to shoot (not that a 30-30 isn’t). I know that Winchester brought out somewhat recently a “new version” (Miruko made?) of the 94 in 32win special. I wish I could have gotten one.
I really don't think it will. The last ammo I could find for sale for mine was over 10 years old on the shelf of some country gun shop, part of a case he ordered for his brother in law who only wanted a box or two.
i recently inherited my fathers guns and what a lever action collection , 38 -55 Oliver commerative edition, 2 30-30s , 32, 2 44 mags, thers a few 22 cal and a 44 lc. sorry for the bad typing you know if you know. not to mention all the other guns he was a huge Winchester , Ruger, Remington fan. I have never been a big fan of lever action rifles but now that i have them i hope to pass them on to my grandson one day. The 308 norma magnum rifle he used for elk out west back in the 80s, 270, 280, 243 rifles also, 4 remington 1100s oh and the colt hand guns he only collected colt revolvers there are anaconda, python, and cobra and a couple trooper mk 3 in 22 and 357. and quite a few other guns a 30 cal carbine and a m1 garand. and some ruger 10/22s i thought that i would open the safe and it would just be a bunch of long guns maybe some shot guns i had no idea the old man was squirreling away treasures to leave me. truth be told id rather have dad back, but thats not gunna happen. i thought i might sell them and buy something but what would i buy thats cooler? idk he also left me 80 acres and a paid off home, i love ya pops thank you.
Thanks. That's what I have heard. The big accuracy challenge will be with the 200gr Buffalo Bore cartridges. They are trucking at a published velocity of 2200 fps.
@@TargetSuite Personally I would be reloading some pretty light loads for that Rifle. Not that the rifle wouldn't handle the more powerful load but I just wouldn't be in a hurry to send that gun to it's permanent resting place on the wall.
Doesn't matter, pre or post 64. If it's a good rifle, it doesn't matter. I have owned many pre 64 rifles of all kinds over the last 60 years. Some good, some not so good. If you say it's pre 64 people nearly pass out! Eyes roll up. A friend had a pre 64 that shot like crap but because it was "pre 64" he just would not let it go! I don't understand but there's much I don't understand now days.
I had a pre-- '64 model 94 my dad gave me from saving S&H green stamps when I turned 16. I shot my first deer with it that autumn. It was in storage in a friend's garage when I moved to Seattle. Later, when I went to retrieve it, it had been stolen by somebody, along with a nice camera that I also valued. So, my Winchester was gone and I was bummed out for several years. I bought another 94 a few years later. I couldn't believe the difference in quality. I considered it a waste of money. I never shot it for hunting and sold it to a gun nut neighbor that wanted a 94. ( I guess he never noticed it wouldn't group tight like the pre-- 64). I was glad to get rid of the piece of junk.
I am an original owner of a 1970 model. Still looks and shoots like new. From articles I’ve read the post ‘64 is just as reliable as the pre ‘64 model. Listening to the debate is like listening to people argue about the COVID 19 vaccine.
Thanks for that. I think the question of pre or post 64 really gets down to collectability not shoot-ability especially when it comes to the marble 94. Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment!
Great job George the rifle looks great I never heard of that round before. I will look it up I only have two lever rifles. The Marlin 444 and the Henry 357/38 that one because of you. But I really like it. If it's safe to shoot I like it. Those are classics. I just refinished the stock and hand guards on one of my M1 rifles it came out great. Who knows what else can go wrong in this country.and the world. It's going to be a long hot summer. Riots, looting, fires and the police have to watch with their hands tied. Here in the suburbs were just fine. Sorry to bring politics into your video but this is crazy. Not a good situation. Stay safe my friend. Great presentation.
Thanks! I'm surprised the 32 Winchester Special cartridge is still in production myself. But the Buffalo Bore cartridge loads put it up there with the .35 Remington!
@@frankwebster3656 I was thinking about the .44 magnum for the Henry. The Marlin is a .444 a 44 magnum on steroids. I can't believe Justin Trudeau won again. The United States is rotten we are in serious trouble with the presidents agenda.. Can you own 444/ 45/70 lever guns? I know you have many restrictions. I have a good deal of rifles and shotguns. I'm sure you can't have.. Thanks my Canadian brother.
The Miroku Winchesters are better in every way (except collectability) than all other standard issue Winchesters. I have four of them. They are stunning when it comes to fit and finish, although I did have to knock off a burr on my 1892 .357 to make it cycle cleanly.
Very well done video, sir! I just purchased a 1948 Flat Band Winchester 30-30 from my father this past weekend. He's had a it only a few yrs (don't think he ever shot it) and it was a "Safe Queen" from the previous owner. The condition is pretty much flawless. I mean, there's a very tiny nick (pencil point in size) in the wood near where the stock meets metal, but not a single scratch, hint of rust or discoloration anywhere else and super clean all the way through the barrel and bolt. I actually wonder what this thing might be worth.....?
Thank you. I just looked on GunBroker and there is a "beautiful condition" flat band model 94 with a buy-it-now price of about $1,300. There are a few others with opening bids pushing $2,000 but there are no takers so far. So I'm guessing the value of your gun is somewhere between $1300 and $1,500. But I am not an expert by any means.
Your pre-64 Winchester, I was only 4 years old when it was made! Today im 70 years old. Nice guns and rifles are like wine. They never get old. They always work well, and always are in style. Straight shooting, reliable firearms!
@@TargetSuite A little early, but Happy Soon to be celebrated Birthday to you George! I consider you an awesome friend, and im learning quite a bit watching your videos!
It depends. For collector or value most pre 64’s command a higher price because of the components used to make it and historical perspective. For performance function, it probably doesn’t matter.
George, your failing to mention the beveled bottom of the receiver. Winchester left the receivers more square at those corners. Value is the biggest difference of course.
Look carefully. What you have is a Winchester Model 1892 (or copy) OR a Marlin Model 1894. The Winchester Model 94 has been made in .44 Magnum but it has the same action and "mechanism" as all other Model 94s. The Winchester Model 1892 has a different action and mechanism (actually scaled down Model 1886) and was chambered for pistol caliber cartridges. It was never chambered in .44 Magnum during it's original manufacture (1892-1941) but there have been many copies of it, including Japanese made, Winchester marked, rifles chambered in .44 Magnum. Marlin has a rifle called the 1894, also a lever action that looks somewhat similar to the Winchester, that has been made more or less continuously since 1894 in a variety of pistol caliber cartridges, including .44 Magnum.
@@garyK.45ACP hello Gary, my Winchester is a ranger 94 in 44 magnum AE without the cross bolt safety, 18 inch barrel with the John Wayne loop lever but the mechanism is a little different and it has a coil main spring instead of a leaf spring. I bought it in Paris, France in 1986 or 1887 used, but made in that period 1985 or 86.. The receiver is milled steel nicely brued , not alloy cast receiver Winchester made from 1964 to 1982 or 1984 I think. The action is verry good but the furniture is terrible. It's petty rare to find these in France in 44 magnum. I am going to buy a Chiappa 1892 take down version in 44 magnum tomorrow. I know the difference with a 92 and 94 Winchesters. Thanks for your interest.Cheers
@@1745fred Not really a "different mechanism or action" then. The differences you see in yours, from the ones in the video, are similar across all Model 94 production. I misunderstood what you meant by a "different action and mechanism". The coil mainsprings were used in all Model 94s after serial number 4,580,000 (roughly, I do not have the exact serial number for that change) and the crossbolt safety began being used about serial number 6,000,000 along with a rebounding hammer. The angle eject came in before the crossbolt safety and for some period the rifles were angle eject without a safety, such as yours. The "Ranger" models were a lower cost series made with stained hardwood stocks rather than walnut, no front sight hood, non-ramped front sight and a few other cosmetic changes to reduce the selling price. They were often marketed in "Big Box" stores in the USA. Previously, "Big Box" stores had ordered Model 94s with their own "store brand" names such as "Ted Williams" (Sears, Roebuck & Co.) "Westernfield" (Montgomery Wards) or "Western Auto" for that hardware store chain. .44 Magnum is not a very common caliber in the Model 94 in the USA either. By far, most are .30-30. Incidentally, France purchased considerable numbers of Model 94 and Model 1892 rifles to use as "survival guns" for French pilots during WW1. Enjoy the rifle!
@@garyK.45ACP thanks for your precious information Gary. Mine is similar to Jeff Quinn’s before he had it redone. www.gunblast.com/FiringPin.htm. The major difference is the barrel length 18 vs 16 inches because of french laws on riffle lengths. It shoots very well at 50 meters.
The manufacturing quality of Winchesters went to crap in 1964 and the U.S. mint started making crappy coins ( metal wise ) in 1965. This Winchester Quality issue was really obvious in the Rifleman's Rifle the model 70.
Any of the post '64's that I've owned have functioned just fine and all were accurate given the limitations of the design. In late 1970, Winchester realized that the stamped shell carrier was a mistake and replaced it with a solid steel carrier. Another issue was the cheap, lacquered wood furniture that they started using on and off for a decade or so. That stuff would flake and peel away if you looked at it sideways. However, the grand old '94 was handy, well balanced and reliable. I've seen '94's that were so neglected that they were hardly recognizable yet, they still put meat on the table when required. Great video by the way :)
@@TargetSuiteAn m94 is the perfect deer rifle for where I live. when ever one is offered to me at a decent price I buy it. I never have them very long before someone offers me more than I think it’s worth. Way in the back of my gun safe is a 1902 manufacture exception that my executor will have to deal with because I like it’s history and patina. When ever I buy a post 64 I knock $100 off my offer if it has the pressed metal elevator. Though I did not like many of the changes Olin made that’s the only one I can’t live with.
I haven’t handled one of these in years. However, I always thought some of the post-64 guns had a different hue on some of the small parts - kind of purplish and just didn’t take the blue finish like the regular steel did.
I have a post 64 and it is built cheaper and the quality isn’t quite as good. But then again you don’t really need high quality part for the dust cover on the kings loading gate. Stamped sheet iron works plenty good. So as for grabbing a rifle to shoot game both will work fine. I love rifles though and admire the old quality craftsmanship. Also the retaining value in money is different.
Cool! I just looked up the serial number on the one I got from my dad, it's a 1949 and near perfect. A testament to how well he took care of it and I know for a fact that it was his go to rifle for whitetail for many years. In spite of the fact he had a Weatherby in 30/06
Well it certainly matters most in the model 70, at least that's what I've heard over and over again. But the model 94 did go to the cast receiver in 1964. And for a number of years it was a finishing problem. Thanks for your comment and thank you for watching!
@@TargetSuite absolutely my friend , actually I prefer the 336 marlin 30/30 , the factory stock one I have , is one of my most accurate rifles I have. I also like the side eject on the marlin. I inherited two pre 64 model 70 Winchester's , a 300 H&H , And a 300 win. Mag. , they are my most cherished rifles I have. I watched my hunting partner take many , many deer and elk with them throughout my entire life , and he left them to me , the sentimental value of them to me is astronomical.
With the introduction of the angle eject models in 1983, Winchester returned to the forged steel receivers all the way till the end of their production in 2006. I guess that explains why the bluing on my 1989 model 94 is still pristine 30 years later. From 1983 through the end of the line 2006 are arguably the best 94s produced.
@@TargetSuite Are you serious??? Are you telling us you didn't just fall out of bed one morning knowing how to diss and re assemble a rifle?? AMAZING!!
I am an engineer, by training and inclination. I bought a brand new Rossi 92 some years ago, and took it into my head that I should strip it down to clean all the delivery grease out of it before I used it. It came apart easily enough, but I came VERY close to just putting all the parts into a box and taking it back to the gun shop to get it together again! Lever actions are simple enough in principle, but complicated in reality.
I have a mint 1961 model 94. was my grandfathers wedding gift from my grandmother. edven got the bill of sale for it from a fishing and tackle shop in queens NY
At the beginning I was prepared for this to be a gong show. Well I have to admit that initial thought was completely without merit. So often with mass produced items the devil is in the details. You demonstrated the differences very nicely. I have never had any intention of owning a Model 94 made after 1963. I shoot left handed so none of the angle eject guns for me. For many years my eye sight did not allow for the use of iron sights which is what I wanted. I have been blessed since my early 60s with greatly improved eyesight where I can again shoot open sights like I did as a teen (except for the dry eye and focus issues). Late in life I have been mostly a traditional bowhunter. I hunt on the ground for shots well within 35 metres. So for me my Model 94 is a long range hunting tool for shots out to about 125 metres. I do not hunt sheep due to my age and overweight factors, but if I chose to rifle hunt them it would be with the 30/30. I am not a subsistence hunter so failing to shoot anything is not a matter of life and death. My Model 1894 shows the bluing wear I would hope to see. It clearly shows the gun was carried with one hand around the receiver. That is the logical way to carry it.I thought about refinishing it, but realized it has earned its imperfections. What I have, then is a very good Bighorn Sheep tool if I ever get back into a condition where I can hunt the high country where they mostly live. A seven pound, easily carried rifle is a great choice anytime grueling climbs are involved. And completely by chance, when I finally went looking for one and found one, it was made the same year I was, 1951.
Oddly enough, my daughter's 1988 Angled Eject model 94 has that same screw in the link. I picked up a beautiful 1979 model 94 at the pawn shop yesterday and it doesn't have the screw. (This one isn't a project thankfully)
Yes Winchester returned that set screw to the later models. I'm not sure when that happened. But I actually made a video with a late 80s model 94 in 357 Magnum!! and it had the screw as well
The only Win I shot was an early 70s era ?? 30-30 20" Oct Barrel I think he said it was a Century Model , it looked like an up grade from the basic rifle . Sweet shooter !!!!
I’m looking forward to seeing your groups with that Buffalo Bore. Do you know the twist rate of your .32 Special? I have a pre-64 in .32 that (I think) has the 1/16 twist and had heard it may not stabilize those big 200 grain slugs. If yours works out, I might be ordering some.
I love the 30-30 model 94 , i have a 1945 that my dad got from his uncle who was a Canadian ranger and it works great still , it has the stamp on it from the ranger model thanks for interesting video
After 1964 didn't Winchester change to beach wood for there stocks? and changed the way they blued there guns? and that's why you have pitted looking finish. The rear sight is also stamped and folded for the dovetail slot ..On a Pre 1964 are the cartridge guide rails are held in place by screws on the inside. Latter modes are held in place the screws are on the outside.
Wow! That 32 is amazingly sharp! We need detailed “How to” breakdown of the the 32 and then we need a Winchester 94 vs Marlin 336 and of course a 32 vs 35 Remington vs 38-55.... . You have some work ahead of you. 😎
Do have 35 Rem. Great caliber, like it better then 30-30. Not bad mouthing 30-30 cause I have one of those to. Not much interest in 38-55 but always wondered on how much difference it is from 32 vs 35 Rem.
Not familiar with the 32 Special. Looks like the ballistics don’t have anything to do with its anemic sounding name. Thanks for the education. Look forward to its performance at the range.
The 32 special was a ballistic twin to the 30-30. Has a slower twist rate and is limited by variety of bullet weights compared to 30 WCF. Does shoot cast very well. I've always thought if it had been available before the 30 WCF with more bullet weights it would have been more popular.
What happens if you have one made in 1964 I have one I called Winchester they said it was manufactured in the year 1964 so what does that mean for somebody like me
That's a good question. The model year 1964 was when Winchester introduced the new designs. That's why people speak about the pre-64 model Winchester's
I think for Model 70's, it might matter in terms of ultimate (as opposed to practical) accuracy. For other Winchester rifles? Nope. It probably matters only to collectors and those trying to sell rifles to them.
Some of the mid 70s ones were steel plated and blued they did a few different things trying to fix their blueing because of the sintered metal receivers.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the Winchester Model 94/22. Mine in a 1974. I took it apart, as I do every used firearm, and cleaned and inspected. The bolt and locking system, lifter mechanism, everything is on another level. Feeds Shorts and easily and flawlessly as long rifle. Now my Marlin 39A is certainly simpler and has fewer moving parts, as does my modern Henry. But the Winchester 94/22 is by far the more precise mechanism. The Henry has the smoothest action, but can jam if fired from a funky angle (frog hunting). And shorts jam occasionally. Ditto the 39A. The Winchester is almost like controlled round feed. I could'nt get it to jam upside down.
@@TargetSuite You will be in bended knee head bowed appreciation of the quality of the 9422. Any Winchester lover must have one. You will be amazed. The price is going way up each year so don't delay.
Odd about the year pre 64 with Winchester. 63 was the year they stopped making Winchester model 12 shotguns because they had receivers that were made out of a single billet of steel . Sounds like money started getting tight at Winchester. Great vid as always.
I was looking at a beautiful Winchester Model 94 Canadian Centennial, but found out that the receiver is made of sintered metal. Not sure IF all post 64 94's are all of sintered metal, but that would discourage me from buying a newer model. That and I prefer Marlins.
I prefer the Marlins as well, but everyone needs at least one vintage Winchester. This will probably be my one and only. If I were to buy another Winchester, it would probably be a Miroku Winchester. They are much nicer even that the pre-64 classics. Just not as collectable.
When it comes my personal use, I always favored Pre 64 M94 Winchesters, the quality in metal, wood and fit/finish are exceptional. Knew a person who had a mid 70s era model 94, it jammed up on a hunt, over time the metal turned a purple color on receiver and wood quality was not close to Pre64 weapons. He had to take the carbine to a Gun Smith to get it operating, long time ago so dont recall what the mechanical issue was, maybe short stroked it, maybe lifter failure. Seems when he got it fixed he indicated it shot well but lost confidence in the gun and traded it.
You are bringing back a memory of a Winchester 25/20 lever my father had. I was 6th grade and he let me carry it Coyote calling. Didnt get a shot but it was so cool a rifle. I loved carrying it. Wish he would have kept it. So much history. Good job on your video. God bless all here.
@@TargetSuite yes, you are right. I met to say my dad not he! Lol sorry about that. He had me out shooting .22s of course and many other pistols. .45 1911 which I inherited, and a S&W combat masterpiece in 38 spl. Those were around always and have memories of shooting them in 2nd. Grade. Winchester model 62 pump long rifle my grandpa gave me in third grade. I could write all day. On and on. Lol Enjoy your work. Thank you.
@@TargetSuite I sure do,my dad came through the woods with his 32 rem mod.14,and about a 100 yds before he got to me,he jumped a 8 pt. and downed it. It was an incredible day in 1975.
I thought that the major difference with the post 64, is that in the post years they started using MIM frames. Supposedly, the MIM sides did not finish as well and Winchester eventually started using MIM internal parts as well. If I'm wrong please let me know. It wouldn't be the first time, lol.
the one i have is a Ranger AE 1986 94 in 44 magnum caliber. The receiver is not cast but milled as the pre 64 were made. I reblued it and It looks great.
Most point out the sintered metal receiver, the stamped lifter, and the loading gate. Many point to the hammer being different, but from what I have seen, that was not a pre-'64/post-'64 change. They usually say the bluing is off on the sintered receiver and that the wood isn't finished as well. Some refer to the post-'64 guns as bad. However, here is what I have posted on other videos: The "bad" parts really are not all that bad except to book-learners and to snobs. Sintered iron designs were used in many things calling for strength. Engine connecting rods are made with sintered metal (powdered metal) for many high performance engine designs. Advantages are more consistency in design and final production, reducing of stress points, and cheaper. People pointing out that the receivers are sintered metal say that like they are going to break. They don't. Also, the stamped lifter is only lifting a cartridge up into place. It is more than adequate for the job. It is stamped steel, not sheetmetal. The A-arms on most cars are stamped steel. Do you worry they will break? Reducing costs doesn't always mean "cheap" or poorly built. My 1968 94 isn't really blued; it is black. It looks almost like powder coating. It still looks like new and it has been used in the woods, not just a wall decoration. Winchester apparently responded rather quickly to the aesthetics and the woodwork improved shortly after. However, most buyers at the time were not buying them as wall art but to hunt with. The collectible versions (always an indicator that they will not be collectible) had much higher attention to detail in assembly and look as good or better than the pre-'64 models. If you are buying for collecting, yes, you must pay careful attention to many things and base your judgement on that. If you are buying for shooting or hunting, then either will work just fine.
I bought mine in 82 the last year of the top eject still have it and works fine the bluing is not great due to my son putting it in a wet sleeve and leaving it there. I restored it but did not reblue the bad spots.
@@tomsherwood4650 Not true, I just picked up a pristine 1951 model 94 .30-.30 for $500 today, Owner wanted me to loan him $150, Told him no as he's not good at paying back his debts from prior experiences with him, I Gave him $500 for the 94 with the agreement he pays me back $700 in one lump sum within 30 days, He told me to keep the gun for the $500, I'll still shoot it and even though its nearly pristine I maintain my firearms as far as keeping up on cleaning/lubing them even while in the safe, Gun was his uncles and has been shot very few times, Deals are out there
I am not rubbing this in any one's faces, but I am old enough that my Dad had a pre-64 and I bought a post-64 Model 94, so now I own both. People need to realize that pre-64's are almost 60 years old making the ones that are still around quite old and very well used. I have shot countless rounds over my life shooting both these pre and post 64 models and to be honest, a lot of the minor differences come down to your personal preferences. I never had one single issue with either gun and have shot several deer with each model. In many ways, the "Pre vs Post 64" is a lot like comparing the Original Python vs the new 2020 Python revolver. Both are great in their own way, but are different as well.
That is it. It comes down to it is a practical hunting tool. Both shoot well. The cosmetics are superior on the pre guns, at least close up. Now you overpay for either rifle and pre guns are way out of proportion to a mass produced deer buster.
Recently acquired my Dad's 1966 model 94. From a collectors perspective a big difference. From a shooters perspective, I can't think there is much difference at all. This rifle is a nice shooter. I'll be taking it into the deer woods this season. Love the size and weight, for still hunting.
Incorrect information just because the set screw is there on the bottom side of the receive does not make it a pre 64 mine was made post 1993 and I have the set screw on my rifle
The cartridge lifter is also machined in the pre 64. It sounds different when you crank the lever. It also has the metal checkered buttplate. My first deer rifle was my dad's given to me at Christmas the year I shot my first Buck. It was manufactured in 1954. Somewhere along the way it's magazine was shortened to 4 rounds and it was fitted with Williams peep sights. I still use it all the time as my favorite still hunting rifle. It's the same era as my 336 Marlin. (1951)
My first deer rifle was my pops 1954 32 win spcl.. Which then became my boys 1rst deer rifle. And I hope I see a day that 1 of my grandchildren take there 1rst deer with her. My pop pop bought 3 of em back in the day. 1for my pops 1 for my uncle and 1 for my aunt. Between the 3 they took quite a few deer and a couple black bear too. I'm not sure but, didn't the older ones come with the hooded sight also?
I was going to comment on the cartridge lifter also. That is the easiest way to determine it to be a quality pre '64 or not. This guy has something that I have never seen before. I think that rifle has been messed with by someone an replaced that part. This guy does not know the whole story behind the pre '64 model 94
I have a large pile of pre 64 Winchesters in many configurations. The fit and finish on the older guns is definitely nicer but, functionally, I don't think there's enough difference to make difference. I still gravitate to the older pre 64 examples though. Great video.
@@TargetSuite I once had a Miroku 1886 Winchester in 45-70 while, at the same time, I had an '86 Winnie made in 1892. The century old gun was a nicer firearm hands down. As always, thanks for the info. I always learn something from you.
I can attest to the wildly different price points between a pre '64 and post '64 Winchester '94. While living in Maryland I haunted area pawn and gun stores "just looking" for the most part but on one occasion I found a VERY rough (possibly chewed on by beavers, burned, buried in a manure pile for for several years, and left to rust in a damp basement) pre '64 that was stamped .30 WCF. Thinking that any firearm in such a condition HAD to be cheapish I was brought kicking and screaming into the reality of pre '64 prices when I saw the price tag....Let's just say I gingerly returned it to it's place on the rack and instead purchased an (easy fix) "broken" 1960s era "JM" Marlin 39A for the kind of money The Lovely Bride and I have spent on gas, two tickets to a first run blockbuster movie, popcorn, soft drinks, and supper at a major chain steak house after the movie....I spent $15.00 + S&H for the three parts it took to return that 39A to perfect shooting condition. I later gifted that little jewel to one of my three best friends who, as the result of a break in of his home, had lost a 39A left to him by his father. About two months later, at another pawn & gun, I spotted and purchased on the spot, a pre safety, pre Winchester bankruptcy/Japanese production '94 in what I feel was "like new, never loaded, never fired" condition for $300.00 +tax. That rifle is, if things work out, destined for conversion to .38-55. I did take it deer hunting last season here in South Carolina and fond memories of my first real deer rifle, a 1968 production '94 purchased with paper route money, reserviced. So though it's not the more "desirable and collectable" version, it IS a good shooter and I'm going to be holding onto it even if it never sees conversion to my long dreamed of .38-55! Excellent video as usual! Keep 'em comin'!
Target Suite they have the power but is it the most accurate 🤷♂️ with power you will find out 😁 it’s your shoulder . You can show that the 32 can do the job out to a 100yard ..
My first introduction to guns was after seeing my father's 94 Winchester chambered in .32 WS on the top shelf of my parents' bedroom closet. I would also regularly observe the boxes of ammo and individual rounds of ammo for it. They always fascinated me as a young child, and I knew that the rifle was dangerous. Then I got to shoot the rifle at an outdoor range when I was 15 or 16 and it unfortunately left a bad impression because of what I thought was heavy recoil. I never touched the rifle again and I wasn't interested in guns at that time anyway. I think my dad took me to the dessert that day to symbolically demonstrate that I was entering adulthood. A few years ago my dad gifted me the rifle and I was really able to appreciate it. I love the way it feels in my hands compared to an AR 15. I feel the same way about old AKs like I do about my 94 Win. I did research on the serial number and I believed it was manufactured in 1909, but because all the older original records were burned in an accidental fire at the building where they were archived, the date may be 1913. You really can't date any old 94 Win accurately because of that fire. At least one person who claimed to be an expert was sure my rifle was made in 1909, so 🤷🏽♂️. It has an octagonal barrel and it's in incredibly excellent condition, making me wonder if parts on it were replaced . I'm pretty sure it was reblued when my dad got it for around $20 in the late 50s from a rancher outside of greater L.A. (now heavily populated with a busy freeway) who had two of them. I have shot it several times and it is incredibly accurate. I didn't have experience shooting when I first used it after my dad gave it to me, but I hit a small steel target about 100 yards away several times. The people that were in our group were also surprised. After shooting my 12 gauge shotgun at the dessert the day I shot my 94 Win, the recoil on the 94 was minimal. It's currently under my bed in a rifle case, loaded as one of my self defense guns. I had it cleaned and checked by a gunsmith before I shot last time. I will keep this rifle as long as I can.
I'm surprised you missed "THE" major difference, but most don't understand what it is. In 1964 Winchester switched from a forged nickel steel receiver to a "centered metal" receiver. Centered mettel is a process of compressing powdered metal into a shape close to the desired part then heating it to the point that the power becomes a sold cohesive metal. Forging is vastly superior process but also quite a lot more costly.
I confess to not being a Winchester historian. But thanks to a lot of you guys, especially @garyK I have learned a lot. Including the transition to sintered steel receivers.
Questions.... I have an old model 94, from my dad's collection, it's missing the locking block. Doesn't appear anything broke, or was taken apart, not sure how it's not in there...I am wondering if you have any videos showing how to replace the block.... I'm not sure I want to take the entire thing apart...if I don't have to...
Unfortunately, the model 94 is going to have to come apart somewhat to be able to get the Locking bolt out. But it's not really that hard. Here is a link to a video I posted a long time ago. It's a modern Winchester and so there is a lot of content about the crossbow safety in this video. But you can ignore that. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PfjTHHVDkxY.htmlsi=uA6NGiUm_f0mkLWR
