We have thousands of pages of Bible Commentary written before 1830. None of the Greek or Hebrew scholars of those days found a secret, silent, rapture of the Church. The idea was first promoted in a publication titled, "The Morning Watch", which was written by the followers of Edward Irving. John Darby adopted the doctrine and brought it to America during the 1860's. Scofield incorporated it in his reference Bible. Now we have the, "Left Behind" books and videos in Church libraries.
Cn 4. He shall sit and rule on His throne. “He (the BRANCH) shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon His throne.” Zech. 6:13. 5. His voice shall be heard at Jerusalem. “The Lord shall utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the strength of the children of Israel.” Joel 3:16. “He shall speak peace unto the heathen: and His dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.” Zechariah 9:10.
Left out the part that says immediately after tribulations.. And mthw 24 is talking about the rapture. To gather his elect in the clouds is a def, of rapture.
Cn. 6. “The King of Israel, even the Lord, is IN the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil anymore. The Lord thy God IN the midst of thee is mighty.” Zephaniah 3:15,17. 7. “Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell IN the midst of thee…..” Zechariah 2:11.
Exactly. So frustrating. Pastors who just pick and choose scriptures are so frustrating. Is it intentional to deceive? v 29: "Immediately after the tribulation..." v 31: "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Sounds like the rapture to me.
The "G is not C doctrine" is at the heart of much debate. Some say that "gather together" in MATTHEW 24:31 is not the same event as "caught up" in 1st THESSALONIANS 4:17. The "G" represents "gather together" in MATTHEW 24:31, and the "C" represents "caught up" in 1st THESSALONIANS 4:17. The solution here is to study 1st THESSALONIANS 4:16-17 and REVELATION 20:4-5. Any doctrine that claims that the 1st THESSALONIANS 4:16 resurrection pre-dates REVELATION 20:5 is heresy against REVELATION 20:4-5.
7) 2Cr 5:4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world YE SHALL HAVE tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (ASV) 3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, 4 he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God.
@snoopyredhat 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 American Standard Version (ASV) 3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, 4 he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God.
2) events. Jesus also said of that day no man knows the day or the hour, but as I just pointed out, we would absolutely know the exact day. Revelation 12:6 "Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days." The woman is Israel, they will flee the after the AC desecrates the temple, 1260 days later Jesus shows up.
I just did a little Greek inquiry for "temptation" which is "peirasmos" #3986 which means; a putting to proof, experiencing evil or adversity. So by the Greek translation which is the original it states the Church will not be subject to any proof of its genuine status, experience evil (tons of that in the tribulation) or adversity (tons of that too). If you to be hear for that just remember I warned you.
Cn 2. “I will cleanse their (Israel’s) blood…..for the Lord dwelleth IN Zion.” Joel 3:21. 3. “Ye shall know that I am IN the midst of Israel.” Joel 2:27. 4. “So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling IN Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy…..” Joel 3:17. 5. “The Lord of hosts shall reign IN Mount Zion, and IN Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.” Isaiah 24:23.
10)Mat 25:31When the Son of man shall COME in his glory, and ALL the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:-Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall SEND forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Lastly, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, Paul talks about the rapture in pure clarity! Verse 1: We beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering unto him, verse 2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind of be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Chris is at hand. Verse 3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for THAT day shall not come, except there come a falling away FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, (continued)
Cn 6. Jerusalem shall be called “The Lord is there”. “The name of the city from that day shall be The Lord is there.” Ezekiel 48:35. 7. He will tread or walk on the earth. “For, behold, the Lord cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.” Micah 1:3. 8. He will stand at the latter day upon the earth. “For I know that my redeemer (Christ) liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.” Job 19:25.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Another great proof for pre-trib doctrine: 1- Preaching the gospel is the Church's duty. 2- preaching of the 2 witnesses assumes Church is no longer here 3- their ministry lasts 1260 days 4- they are killed at the midpoint 5- 1260 days before the midpoint is when they begin, at the start of the 7 years. 6- Church is therefore removed before the 7 years begin
"What purpose?" What bearing would I as a mere human have the answer to this question? I just teach what the Scripture teaches, and if I had to guess it's for refining---just like gold goes through a refining fire, it must be heated so hot that all the infirmities rise to the top to be scooped out. It's a testing period, and because this last 7 years will be so intense--the judgments are worse, but the rewards from Christ are also better for those who endure and remain faithfully obedient.
1) Are those being caught up a building or the people of God or Church ? -ecclēsia (genitive ecclēsiae); f, first declension church (a house of worship) ēlectiō (genitive ēlectiōnis); f, third declension choice, selection election (of believers to Salvation)
Pre-tribbers site Rev. 3:10 as more of their proof, "I will KEEP thee FROM the hour of temptation..." The same two words appear in John 17:15, as Jesus prays, "I pray NOT that thou shouldest TAKE them OUT of the WORLD, but thou shouldest KEEP them FROM the evil." John 17:15 clarifies the meaning of the words KEEP and FROM in Rev. 3:10. They declare God's KEEPING us FROM the effects of the evil, not removing us.
You are absolutely correct, sir. The last trump doesn't mean the first trump and the word apostasia doesn't mean "rapture," it means abandonment of the faith.
I meant to say in my last post, 'the day of Christ is at hand,' Anyways, 'our gathering unto him,' obviously the rapture. However, it clarifies as to when: The falling away first, and then the man of sin, son of perdition reveals himself.' Meaning, we'll be persecuted in times of the tribulation. Rev. Ch. 13:7 "It was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them..." Who is this? Satan. Tribulation is Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. Satan is punishing us!
3)Congregation -From congregō (“flock together”) + -ātiō. From Latin congregātiō, from congregare "to herd together", itself from com- "together" + GRAGERE "to collect into a flock, gather" (from grex "a flock, herd"); adopted c.1340 by the English Bible translator William Tyndale, to render the Greek (ekklesia) ('those called together, (popular) meeting'; hence Latin ecclesia 'church') in his New Testament, and preferred by 16th century Reformers instead of church From Latin
JerUSAlem is the BARN in Matthew 13:24-30 where Christians are taken upon the return of Jesus AFTER the non believers are collected first. You don't want to be on the first bus out people. Make ready for the Tribulation. Thanks
and I showed you before two different questions is why one from the Apostles to Jesus about His coming and the other Paul answering questions for those at Thessalonians about those that where dead that is why but Paul mentions that is at His coming when this happens
9)Mat 24:39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.-Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.Luk 21:36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
3) flesh blood can not inherit the Kingdom 1Cr 15:48- 1Cr 15:50 those in Mathew 24 have to be changed before the are gathered into the Kingdom of God and/or in the parables the barn the garner or many mansions
The church is not gone after Revelation 3. Christ died for the CHURCH. There is no other group mentioned for whom Christ died. The church is one body. When one member suffers, they all suffer. We see that the New Testament often calls the church "saints". Search: 4345818 in youtube for more.
"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up ON THE LAST DAY. For this is the will of My Father, that EVERYONE who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY." John 6:39,40, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY." John 6:44, "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY." John 6:54. Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection ON THE LAST DAY." John 11:23,24. Martha knew there is no secret "rapture". Question: How many days are there after the LAST day? "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." 1 Thess.4:16. "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." 1 Corin. 15:51,52. Question: How many trumpets come after the LAST trumpet? This secret "rapture" is is something that NO ONE in the church taught until about a hundred years ago. The "last day" is also called "the day of the Lord", and "the day of Christ" and "the day of Jesus Christ". Look up all the scriptures about the "day of the Lord" , and the "last day". Put them together. No "rapture".
Bingo! Go to the OT. EVERY OT prophesy matches up with the NT! It ALL says that after the TRIBULATION of those days the Lord will descend with a SHOUT and TRUMPET (not silent or secret) and every eye shall see him. Jesus, Himself said that he would gather the elect after the Tribulation.
@LauderdaleBaptist so then those that died in Christ during the tribulation get resurrected in a 2nd resurrection and his 2nd coming? and so there are 2 resurrections.
1 )Rev 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.-Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand
Tim LaHaye states on page 197 of his book, "Rapture Under Attack" that the early Church was NOT Pretrib. If these people were taught by the Apostles of Christ, why do we doubt their understanding?
6) The First Resurrection they have to be martyred first before they are raised from the dead - FIRST IS ALWAYS FIRST- Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and THEY sat upon THEM, and judgment was given unto THEM: and [I saw] the souls of THEM that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which HAD NOT worshipped the beast, NEITHER his image, NEITHER had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY LIVED and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
11) Mat 16:27For the Son of man shall COME in the glory of his Father WITH his angels; and THEN he shall REWARD EVERY man according to his works.Rev 22:12- and Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the TIME of the dead, that they should be judged, AND THAT thou shouldest give REWARD unto THY servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
4)1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the DEAD shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED.Hbr 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and THEY shall be CHANGED: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall RISE FIRST: THEN 1Th 4:17 alive remain
Cn 4. “When the Lord shall build up Zion (Israel), he shall appear in his glory.” Psalm 102:16. 5. “The Lord shall be seen over them. The Lord of hosts shall defend them (Israel).” Zechariah 9:14-15. 3. JESUS CHRIST IS TO BE PERSONALLY IN THE MIDST OF ISRAEL. If Christ dwells at Jerusalem, is in Jerusalem, and is in the midst of Israel, then He is personally present on earth after His second coming. 1. “The Lord shall reign over them IN Mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.”Micah 4:7
Understand that I do not believe this is a salvation issue, but I do feel great concern for those who are hoping to be gone before the Tribulation. When tribulation comes, and the rapture does not, many will (unfortunately) fall from the faith. Just as in Paul's day when people were told the parousia had already happened. People panicked and departed from the faith; they lost hope and gave up. I don't want that to happen to anyone.
I thought of something else to answer your initial question though, since you objected that we did not need to be "refined"---you should look at Hebrews 5:7-10 which clearly shows Jesus even learned obedience through His suffering. This was part of His refining, so must we also be refined. I still haven't heard a proper verse yet that proves the pre-trib rapture either, can we go back to that topic since it is the topic of the video?
305, Rev 3:10 I also will keep thee from the hour of TEMPTATION (not tribulation), ....to try them that dwell (LIVE HERE ON EARTH). If we understand Gods word we will not be TEMPTED to take satans mark. Pretty clear if you have the correct translation. Rev 4:4 talks of the 24 elders who are in Heaven now. 1Cor 15:51-52 ALL will be changed. Everyone turns into their Spirit bodies and remain on earth, non believers taken 1st and put in bundles and Christians join Jesus in JerUSAlem Matt 13:30.
"His sheep will never perish"--agreed, when they finally own eternal life as a full on possession. I gave you Scripture that said this is not fully owned until the redemption, the salvation of our souls(final salvation)--1 Pet 1:8-12. Paul affirms the same in Rom 6:22. Eternal life isn't truly applicable until we're in eternity. We have a guarantee(a down payment is the literal Greek) as Eph 1 teaches, the Holy Spirit and if we keep the Spirit by obeying it we will reap life(Rom 8)
If you read Matthew 24, this chapter is letting saved people know what to look for before Jesus returns the second time. Verses 20-22 tells us he's referring to saved people(the elect) and 22 let's you know that because of the elect the days will be shortened. What makes you think that you are going to be raptured out of here and endure none of the things described in that chapter. Furthermore, "Rapture" is no where mentioned in the bible.
5) if God people are still being killed the then the last enemy has not been destroyed yet for believers at First Resurrection after those that come out of great tribulation and overcame the beast 1Cr 15:26 The LAST enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. - Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and THEY loved not their lives UNTO the death.
6) Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the ELECT of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the ELECT'S sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.1Pe 1:2 ELECT according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1)Resurrection then caught up in Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall SEE THE Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mat 24:31And he shall send his ANGELS with a great sound of a trumpet, and THEY shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Jhn 6:40 And this is the WILL of him that sent me, that every one which SEETH THE...
1)What [shall be] the sign of thy COMING, and of the end of the world? NOTE the disciples QUESTION anwered in Mathew 24, the Thessaloniains QUESTION 1Th 4:13 But I would not have you TO BE IGONORANT, brethren, CONCERNING them which are ASLEEP, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. -NOTE about those that are dead And pauls ANSWER- 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so THEM also which SLEEP in Jesus will God BRING with him.
I agree with what your reading, I believe the Scripture. So what is your exegesis of what you just wrote? Are you saying that this is the Rapture or the Judgement before the Millenium rein of Christ. As Christ come in the clouds to the earth and gathers His elect from the four winds to enter into the Millenium Kingdom at the end of the Great Tribulation period.
You are correct to a point sir, but you must understand when given a proper exegesis on any subject you must understand the who,what and why etc. Context will alway determing who the writer is talking about, whether Gentile elect or Jewish elect. Point in question. Paul makes a distinction in Romans 11:1. It is obivous that he is referring to the Jews.
I beg the question, since we agree they believed that they were living in the end times because of persecutions we have no arguement. This is why there was no serious study of prophecy by the early church. There was no need to believe that a future time would come. I'm not given opinions, I am given what histiry brings out about the ante-nicene fathers. The Reformer's were not concern with the end time study. Their concern was the Doctrine of Justification by faith, etc, etc.
@nickelsbuckingbulls Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. There is your scripture as requested.
So God can not blot out peoples names out of the book of life? Exd 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
5) 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the PRESENCE of the Lord,(Ref.1Th 2:19) and from the glory of his power;.-2Th 1:10 WHEN he shall COME TO BE glorified in his SAINTS, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
305look, Correct, no one sits in the clouds. They are all taken to JerUSAlem to be with Jesus Matthew 13:24-30. Zechariah 14:3-4 says He lands. Jesus will set down. Only one return people. Please be ready to Disciple during the Tribulation Christians. God will need you then more than ever. Thanks.
7) Mat 24:31 And 2 he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall (GATHER TOGETHER 1996) his elect - 1996 = Gather together EPISYNAGO 1) to gather together besides, to bring together to others already assembled 3) to gather together in one place = epi +synagō Synagogue - Old French synagoge, from Ancient Greek συναγωγή (sunagōgē, “assembly, gathering”), from συνάγω (sunagō, “I gather together”), from σύν (sun, “with, together”) + ἄγω (agō, “I lead”)
Cn 3. His garments will be on earth. “Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? This that is glorious in His apparel, travelling in the greatness of His strength?….I have trodden the winepress alone;….. their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments.” Isaiah 63:1-3. The blood of antichrist’s soldiers will be sprinkled on Christ’s garments when He returns to rescue Israel.
Can you answer me ONE passage also, haven't heard an answer from any baptist on this yet---go to Revelation 3:1-6... read very carefully the letter to the church of Sardis, a letter penned by John, from Jesus to a real church in history. Tell me, after you've read it... what do you think "defiling your garments" means? Next, those who haven't "defiled their garments"--what does that mean? Last, what happens to those who don't repent and get their garments cleansed again?
4)1Th 3:13 To the END he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ WITH all his SAINTS ,-1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless UNTO the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ- 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be REVEALED FROM heaven WITH his mighty ANGELS,
I have a couple questions. Now that you have been shown the Rapture is post-trib, will you teach it as such, or will you continue to teach the popular, ear-tickling lie? Also, if one can never lose their salvation, please explain what apostasy is. Are the warnings in Hebrews 6 in vain? What is the difference between departing from the faith, making shipwreck of the faith, and losing salvation, since our salvation depends on our faith in Yeshua? I hope we can have a productive midrash.
I already answered that once and If some one shows you something it is no longer a mystery it is a revelation. Is the great trump in Mathew 24 is it before or after the last trump? Can you answer if you can or rather if you will
2) Rev 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.Rev 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. Rev 20: 11-15 Judgement of dead mankind with out Christ from all ages raised to receive wrath
Not all of them believed they were in the end times---I said some, and not because they didn't study prophecy--I know they studied prophecy even I've been corrected by some of their understandings of Revelation/OT prophets. The issue with some was just their dating methods that threw them off. The reformers only reformed catholicism, and not even that much of it in practicality. They got rid of some doctrines and just renamed a lot of it. The ante-nicene church was post-trib pre-millenial
FLBC, You stated that Matthew 24 does not concern the rapture, and then you say that 1 Thessalonians 4 is. 1 Thessalonians shows that WE SHALL NOT PREVENT THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP. First the resurrection and then the Rapture immediately with or after. Why do you reject the plain teaching of scriptures? Tares first etc. Proverbs 10:30
The Dispensational doctrine came from a book written by a Jesuit priest named Manuel Lacunza and Edward Irving’s English translation published in 1827. It was first taught by Edward Irving at the Albury Conferences. Lacunza’s book “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“ is available at… www.regal-network.com/dispensationalism/pdfs.htm According to early members of the Plymouth Brethren, during 1830 a teenage girl named Margaret Macdonald reported a “vision” of a pretribulation gathering of believers. She wrote a letter to Irving reporting the details of her vision. The text of her “vision” is available from various sources. The Irvingites published the concept of a pretribulation gathering within the September 1830 edition of their publication known as, “The Morning Watch”. Verification is available at… www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf
To quell the Thessalonian's misunderstanding that they had somehow entered the tribulation, Paul told them the Antichrist must first be revealed. By telling them they had no reason to panic, Paul is clearly disputing the idea that the Thessalonians could someday find themselves facing the tribulation hour.
You've miss the bus if you use a parable that doesn't support a pre or post tribulation rapture it can only support a final judgment for believer and non believers the order is ill relevant but the outcome. Amen
2)ELECT Election -From Anglo-Norman eleccioun, from Latin election-, stem of electio (“choice, selection”), from ELIGERE (“pluck out, choose”)(biblical) The congregation, the group of believers, symbolic body or building. present active ēligō, present infinitive ELIGERE, perfect active ēlēgī, supine ēlēctum. I pluck or root out, extract. (figuratively, of persons or things) I pick out, choose, elect.
Pastor, you said: "The rapture isn't even dealt with Matthew chapter 4" No one said it was. We're dealing with Matthew 24:29-31, not chapter 4. For the life of me I can't understand why pre-tribulationists ignore the clear rapture spoken of in Matthew 24:29-31. Also Mark 13:24-27. 1 Thess 4:17 also is the same exact event. I've heard pre-tribs say that 1 Thess 4 PROVES the pre-trib rapture even though there is no timing given explicitly other than the trumpet, also found in Matthew 24:29-31.
Matthew 24 Jesus Will descend from heaven. After the tribulation of those days. Jesus Will descend from heaven and collect his bride Church elect. Why do people excuse this scripture?????? Why did they change it to mean something else??! The Jews tribulation Converts ect. Stop ignoring scripture and changing it
And yes Jesus Will descend from heaven. Collect his bride elect Church. Then will muster Armageddon descend to the Mount of Olives afterwards. . I find a dishonest to say when the rapture comes he will descend but not touch foot to the Mount of Olives afterwards..
Is it? or is the book of John for the church? If just for His disciples then we might as well close up the book. John 6:37-40 is about election of the believer by the Father, the Son securing the will of the Father by keeping all whom the Father Has chosen and raising them up at the last day.
2)1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain UNTO the COMING of the Lord shall NOT prevent them which are asleep.- NOTE They must be resurrected for they are asleep and they are not resurrected until after he comes - 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall DESCEND FROM heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall rise FIRST:- NOTES from same book the 1 Thessallonians -
2) ....SEETH THE Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will RAISE him up at THE last day. Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the HARVEST is the END of the world; and the REAPERS are the angels. Mat 13:30 Let both grow together UNTIL the harvest: and in the time of HARVEST I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat INTO my barn
Context is so important. you ignore the full meaning of Matthew 24 and 25. Why seperate the two chapter, they deal with the same event. So in order to understand the full meaning of Matthew 24:30, you must read the whole context to get the proper meaning. So you will have to explain both chapters. Most scholars would agree with me that this judgement is right before the saints enter the millennial kingdom. For at this gathering he sits on His throne, no Rapture!
The First Rapture Happens BEFORE The Great Tribulation Starts. (Matt:24:40/ Rev:3:10/ Rev:4:4/ Rev:5:9) This is The True Escape that JESUS promised to all who are "accounted worthy" (Lu:21:36), who "Watch and Are Ready" (Matt:24:44), Who "Bear Fruit To Completion" (Lu:8:15),who "Abide In His Love" (Jn:15),Who Follow Him in "Spirit and Truth" (Jn:10:27),who "Love One Another"(Jn:13:34). To those who "Keep His Word With Perseverence" (Rev:3:10) God uses Satan as divine Judgment in the Great Trib!
Mat 24:30... the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Luk 21:27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.Luk 21:28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your REDEMPTION draweth nigh.Rom 8:23And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the REDEMPTION OF our body.
7) Mat 24:30 And then shall APPEAR the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY shall SEE the Son of man COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
Sure we yet to put on immortality. I have the NKJV is that ok. Rev. 3:10 kept from tribulation, Rev. 4:4 The Church is shown to already be in Heaven (24 elders) and 1Cor.15:51 we all shall be changed in a twinkling of an eye.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:Mat 25:46And these shall go away INTO everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND death. Rev 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of FIRE
Answer this if you can. Why does Paul calls the translation (Rapture) a "mystery"? Everyone already knew about the coming of the Lord, Matthew had already warned about the tares and the wheat and the Gathering of the of the elect, the good/foolish virgins. To the church that was common knowledge. But Paul begins to talk about something different. He talks about this change in a twinkling eye, no gathering at the last trumpet (1 Cor.15:51,52). The word of God must be rightly divided.
Some Baptist are teaching a Post- Tribulation rapture and use these passages in Matthew 24 and Revelations 14 as when this happens. The Bible teaches of Jesus Christ coming in clouds where the believers are caught up to meet him in the air. This includes all those who have died in Christ and all those living at his appearing and will to be taken with him up to Heaven. This is not the second coming of Christ. When Christ comes again, his 2nd coming, he is coming with believers, those who were raptured 7 years before. This is when Christ comes back to earth the second time to destroy those nations that rise up against lsrael and to establish his kingdom on earth to rule and reign 1000 years at Jerusalem. Jesus is speaking to his disciples and to lsrael about evidently coming to this earth before his 2nd coming, not the rapture which precedes the 7 year Tribulation period. Thanks for the clear bibical teaching on this subject you shared.
Yes, we will be given our full inheritance and eternal life once we die(1 Pet 1:9). Our final salvation. You are not hand in hand with Jesus until you're married to Him, then you will not be able to "snatched" out. Clearly even in this context of John 10, it's just to rebuke the people who still do not yet believe--all of John 10 proves these people are trying to enter by a different door(or wall) and not by Jesus. They want MORE proof He's the Christ when He's already shown them.
But! are these elect Isreal, Gentiles or even the Church? What is missing in this gathering? what are the angels doing and how many first resurrection do you think there are? For they have to be changed before the angels gather them.
Brother Steve, what is it that we are doing in the clouds with Jesus? You understand clouds are on earth right? Why would BILLIONS of Saints be sitting with Him in the clouds?
...clear that this event of protection doesn't even occur until the Anti-Christ arises(Matt 24:15-28 describes the Revelation 12 event, how can the elect come OUT if they're in the heavens according to you?) It's because they're still on earth in a hidden place, and Jesus is saying don't come out of the hiding place because you hear someone tell you "Jesus is over there!" because Jesus explains no, His coming will be awesome--no one will HAVE to tell you, you'll see it in the sky(Matt 24:29-31)
we know from 1Thes that there will be a rapture.. but where in scripture does it tell us if that rapture will be before the 7 years of Jacob's trouble?
