Paul, you forgot to answer the bass management question. I sold one of those original PS Audio Digital Links to a friend over 30 years ago, and he’s still using it today!
He didn't completely answer the question this time. But he has in another video. His PS Audio MKII DAC running through his reference Preamp then to the Amp's outperformed The DAC direct to the Amp's. He cautioned to make sure that the caliber of preamp matches or betters the caliber of the DAC. Yes that caliber of preamp will cost you at least what the DAC did. Probably more. Correct me if I'm wrong Paul.
@@terrycochrane7811 Until you have heard the MKII probably best to not speculate. My former Lexicon DC2 got owned by the MKII. Truly thought I had the pinnacle of 2 channel processing. I was wrong. I have it now. Found a used MKII for a grand. Hands down my best audio purchase ever. The PS audio S-300 amp that drives my system comes in a close second as both were a grand. You also will never see Wadia in any top 10 list, yet we both know they probably would top them all. Companies pay to be on those lists. Why every speaker top 10 list includes at least one Klipsch model. They pay to be on everyone's list. Top 10 list's are a joke. Don't take my word for it. Try to find a negative review...You won't find one. Built like tanks (and weigh as much) Smooth as butter. I would not hesitate to side by side my MKII with just about any DAC, even at 10 times the price. The last DAC I will ever own. Take care Terry.
Paul, you broke my heart! 💔 I'm the proud owner of a Sprout and now the seed's been planted in my mind that it does not sound so great and must get a separate DAC! you little monster! 😅
Good short answer Paul regarding separate DACs being better, but what about the 2nd part to his question about bass management in higher end "audiophile" equipment?
Personally I'd say get a Dac with volume control as you can use it as a preamp..and then if you find your preamp of choice you can still use your Dac as strictly as a Dac. There is literally a million dacs out there. Some like a dac to alter or color the sound. Some like myself just wants a transparent dac with the lowest noise floor. My dac of choice is the RME ADI-2 FS. It can literally drive any amp out there, has a few PEQ bands, and is just a nice solid unit. But many audiophiles will say it's too plain Jane sounding, doesn't add any magic or any of those other high end audiophile terms. For me there are too many dacs out there, I don't know where to begin. So I picked a unit with volume control, power, and a low enough noise floor that I don't miss any of the dynamic signal. Maybe one day I'll try a more boutique dac..but for now I kinda hate all the talk about dacs, I was always under the impression we just needed them to convert the digital domain to analog while not degrading the single to it's best ability.
With Dac's just like speakers and amps it comes down to what flavor and presentation you like the best. Some Dac's are ultra clean which some audiophiles think is amazing and others think are LIFELESS and CLINICAL. Everyone has a different opinion of what constitutes great sound. When you do all in one's there is only so much you can fit into the gear for shelf space. With separates you are given a lot more room to optimize design and parts to function better. With Dac's watch out as all separates are not upgradable just some so you have to check the brands and their trade in and upgrade policies.
A multibit DAC from a CD player from 30 years ago that would cost $1000 in today’s dollar barely sounds different than a separate DAC costing about $200 today. Not worth wasting your money, time, or energy. Enjoy the music and don’t worry about it. I did for a while and it’s really not worth being concerned about. There’s somewhat of a snake oil vibe with DAC marketing. Not to say they’re all the same, but many times the cost differences aren’t worth what you get, and you’re feeding a purist mentality in your head.
@@shipsahoy1793 Correct, there is no point in spending a lot of money on a DAC if you don’t have the type of audio equipment to take full advantage of it. Paul’s high end DAC got good reviews for those chasing audio performance perfection if you have the money to spend for it.
@@davidfromamerica1871 I didn’t know I was being graded here; I was speaking of the lower mid tier where most people reside and can afford.. the four digit separate DAC products are for the connoisseur types and not representative of most people, even audiophile types. I appreciate your diligence in trying to drive this line of thought into hearts and minds, but it’s not realistic in most cases. Of course if you have a $20,000 system and you want to incorporate an external DAC, you’re not going to buy a $200 DAC, a $2000 DAC would be more like it. I really don’t like the way you have to state the obvious on the Internet all the time to fend off the biases that exist in peoples minds..
@@shipsahoy1793 What is obvious to you is not obvious to all the people that ask Paul questions. You are the expert, you should have your own audio advice RU-vid channel. I faithfully bow to your extraordinary expertise in Audio Engineering above all others in the field of audio design and expertise. 🤗
I would go for separates! Once I had a Nuforce DAC9 connected to my power-amp, via variable output from the DAC. I also used it connected to a Parasound P7 pre-amp and then to the power-amp with the fixed output. It was only at higher volume from the variable output it sounded good, at lower volume it had lost almost all dynamic. Because I live in an apartment, the «party level» to get good sound, was not an option.
@@r423sdex If you use balanced cables, like I do now, they don’t have to be expensive. Not everybody have space for separates, so it can be good to pay a little extra for a «one box» solution.
@@SantanKGhey1234 if you are listening to cd, the dac inside will be plenty good enough. I have four DACs in the £1000 category, they all sound the same. Most digital music, on cd or streamed is of poor quality. The loudness war kills all dynamics. I have vinyl that sounds better than most of it. Go for quality recordings, and don't worry about the dac.
I would not be so sure, you can buy the best dac, but it's not going to make CDs sound any better. They compress digital music, very few CDs have full dynamic range. If any !
The other problem that I think I see is that as DAC software changes, the “integrated into preamps” dacs can’t be updated. That’s why a separate dac gives the user an advantage.
Firmware upgrades are possible. If it's hardware changes, there's nothing stopping companies offering upgrade services. The best way to do it would be to have the DAC as a slot in module on an amp/preamp that could easily be swapped out if and when the company comes up with an improved version then the customer just unslots the old DAC and slots in the new one. The only thing stopping companies pursuing this is the opportunity to sell a whole new preamp/amp/CD player or whatever.
@@Douglas_Blake Agree, and if you include a modern DSP (dedicated DSP, SOC integrated DSP or DSP running as ARM code), you can easily make tone controls, EQ, room compensation, auto loudness control, cross-over filtering, subwoofer filtering, tube amp sound effect etc. at no extra BOM cost and with state of the art filtering algorithms for linear phase and minimum inaudible quantization noise. Too bad the best audio DSP engineers are not getting hired by audiophile companies like PS Audio.
@@Douglas_Blake Reality is the industry forgets the equal-loudness contour of Fletcher Munson where you realize you need tone controls or loudness compensation at the lower volume levels people actually too often listen at or your music sounds narrow-band. If the aim is to enjoy music at other than concert level, you will realize the importance of the loudness curve issue.
@@Douglas_Blake I know, but 90% of people here don’t get it. Some people seriously believe adding a bypass switch for tone controls is hurting the sound quality thus any tone control, even with bypass switch, is bad while adding an entire preamp for an already volume controlled line level magically improves the sound LOL…
@@Douglas_Blake I wouldn’t mind having a DSP based tube distortion mode as long as I can switch it off. It could easily be designed with setting options to improve further than what actual tubes can do and without the issue of tubes sounding different over time and different between left and right channel.
@@Douglas_Blake Such “musical distortion” is ironically what self proclaimed “purists” enjoy listening to. Or perhaps some consumers are just caught in the many falsehoods being spread often for business reasons. Tubes in an amplifier can add post sales revenue as they need to be replaced more often.
hi paul you often mention that it is PSU that makes the difference between a good and a less good DAC/Pre-amp. I've 'learned' that capasitor with low ERS are more 'audiophile', but when it comes to the Transforator, what make a transformer 'audiophile'? The DC resistance, the shielding, the ferrite core? etc. It only amazes me that most solid-state amplifiers often have torridio transformers, while tube amplifiers almost always use 'conventional' transformers. How much is 'Snake Oil'?
What do you suggest a first separate be? A DAC, An amp or Preamp? Not ready to commit to anything now. I have a Denon AVR, a Sony 4k Blu-ray and a linear tracking turntable.
@@brucelee5465 It's the only thing I have at the moment. If there's no way I can improve on it I guess I'll just live with what I have. Most of what I have is an upgrade from what I had before and I can't afford to start from scratch.
Go for a separate DAC first, to incorporate into your system, which is very similar to the one I have in my den for audio and video use. But to avoid obsolescence, don't buy a "cheap" $200 to $300 DAC. Wait until you can afford a good $500 to $1000 one that is significantly better than the one in your Denon AVR and CD/DVD/Blu-ray player. That way when you start to upgrade other components over time, the DAC won't be limiting your sound quality. Good luck. After the DAC, probably buying a preamp and amp or a good solid integrated stereo amplifier would be next. And then well, there's always speakers depending on what you have that can be upgraded. Keep your old speakers for use in another system unless you can sell them for 50% to 75% of what you paid for them.
@@rosswarren436 Thanks for the reasonable answer. Sounds like Bruce Lee meant to say I'd just be putting lipstick on a pig (my own paraphrasing). My speakers are Klipsch RP-600Miis and I have them bi-amped. They beat the pants off of the Polk satellites I was using from a 5.1 system, which cost about the same as my one pair of mains. I also upgraded my sub from the Polk 10" to a Klipsch 12" and have a 7.1.2 setup in my bedroom with Klipsch in the front and Polk satellites in the back (heights are RP-500SAs) and an R-34C for the center channel - I'd like to eventually get a bigger one, though. Currently I don't have space to put my 10" sub back in the room. I'm doing the best I can to upgrade, but with a part-time job as a school bus special-needs monitor as my only income, options are limited until I win the Lotto.
In the spirit of reducing the number of devices in the signal path, avoid getting a DAC containing a preamp/volume control. Depending on the set up, you may be able to directly connect the DAC to the amp and avoid preamplification all together. I have a DAC with 2V output directly connected to an power amp with a passive volume control and it sounds great. As far as bass management goes, I think, for a sub in a two channel music system, it is better to connect the sub via speaker level outputs from the amp and to run the stereo pair at full-range. This configuration allows the sub to render the “color” of the amplifier, matching the stereo speakers. (Credit to Steve Gutenberg)
Well fortunately most DACs with a volume control can be set for fixed output, but yeah, if you aren't going to use it and the deleterious effects such volume controls can often have on sound quality, then why not buy a DAC that doesn't have one? I only want one volume control, the one in my preamp.
Well I just got a turntable, very good cartridge and phono amp. The sound is fantastic !. My late uncle left me 2000 vinyl records, and even the mono ones from 1965 sound incredible. I got the Miles Davis kind of blue UHQR 45 double album, beats every other copy I have listened too. The only problem was it cost £190, but it's one of my all-time favourites.
Because it sounds like shit and I don't have the space for 8500 vinyl albums nor do I like to seek my music like an idiot when I can easily search a database
Paul's back with his sales pitches. Paul, you claimed that one of your digital analog converters is a top two or three item in the world. How are you coming up with that conclusion? Have you gathered up all the digital to analog converters in the world and then had thousands of people do double blind AB testing? No you haven't, it's impossible. So please don't make these bogus claims. Lastly, there are plenty and I mean plenty of combination preamplifier digital to analog converters that sounds fantastic in the signal chain. I even have an example myself. Try a Nuprime Dac-10 and tell me how it sounds in the chain. Plenty good. Obviously you are talking getting all separates cuz that's what you sell and you are no different than a car salesman. It's all how it's implemented.
"Paul's back with his sales pitches." - gee, it's almost as if he has a company whose products he wants to sell. Who could have guessed that? Dude, get a clue.
@@TheDanEdwards get a clue? So the guy makes a blanket statement that is digital to analog converter is a top two or three in the world? No one needs to get a clue here. Paul needs to stop with the bull crap. It's excessive to the nth degree
DAC stands for Digital to Analogue Converter. A device used to convert digital audio signals back to analogue so your ears can hear the sounds in analogue pure sine wave forms. Save your hard earned cash and buy a good turntable, a good cartridge, a good vintage reel to reel or cassette deck and by pass this crap. Leave digital to video.
I have both, and I have to say some of the vinyl recordings are on a different level. It's been 40 years since I last had a turntable, to say I was shocked at how far it's come is an understatement. But sometimes it's just easier to stream from qobuz. Well except for some of those UHQR recordings, that are on another level.
