I've heard that cables with multiple flat conductors inside clear plastic casing are more transparent than other cables. I think it's true. I can see through them more easily
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you for your good work Amir. Just want point out that there is one zero missing in the red text on the graph (it says 0.0065) :D
Audiophiles that like spending money on the "cable of the month" tend to not watch this channel due to the fact it doesn't pander to their delusional thinking that the money they spent on expensive wire wasn't a wasted effort. Real facts scare them off.
I LOVE THIS VIDEO. I have long thought that the "expensive cable , cryogenic, flux capacitor , ad nauseum marketing crap" was just that. Crap. And then I love when audiophiles will tell you how you can hear a big difference ...I made home made speaker cables , twisted, wrapped, etc. because I wanted to - they look cool, but I never believed "oh these will be so much better sonically than a pair of $20 cables. THANK YOU
There are 2 things that are VERY important: You need to make them look like a water hose, and there need to be a ´Voodoo block´ attached somewhere to the cable 🙂. Don´t waste time to explain what it is there fore. And if you want to sell them for real big money, you need to heat treat them and burn them in for more days in only one direction, to make the copper structures match the incoming signals.
I was excited to see this as I use Morrow’s SP1 cables on my gear. I like you really don’t like claims of distortion free listening, etc., etc. However, besides their typical claims I think Mike and Morrow build good cables that are very flexible and come at a good price with a lifetime replacement guarantee. Mike is very good to work with and seems to really care about his customers too. However, I continue to appreciate what you’re doing to help keep companies honest and the audio community educated.
I also use Morrow SP1 interconnects. I have no idea if the cables are better than generic but the build quality - especially the terminations - does seem better. In my study, I am using DIY speaker cables and I didn't do such a great job with terminations (not soldered) so SP1 speaker cables might well be slightly better.
I have a doctorate in physics from MIT, a quadruple PHD from Stanford in Electrical Engineering and have written numerous published papers on String Theory. I was instrumental in the development of the first Mars Rover and Elon Musk calls me personally for engineering advice. Steven Hawking was a nice guy, but not in my league. I have access to the most advanced Deep Learning algorithms and my personal computer is a crappy old IBM Quantum Computer that I put together one afternoon because I was bored. My measuring equipment makes Tony Stark blush with envy, and I wouldn't waste my time with an AI as low tech as Jarvis. Also, I'm from the future where genetic engineering has allowed me to have a 400 IQ using your current measurements. I bring you a message from the future, 30 years after the great Audiophile Wars. "Electrons are electrons. Resistors are Resistors and Capacitors are Capacitors." It doesn't matter if you use a paperclip or a Vishay Nude Resistor, it will sound exactly the same. If you disagree, its just confirmation bias because you spent money on fancy resistors and don't understand electricity. A capacitor is a capacitor. There is absolutely ZERO different between a Mundorf AG, an Elna LAO or a generic Nichicon. They all sound 100% exactly the same. If the circuit is properly designed then they should all be identical. It doesn't matter if you are using a run of Southwire 12awg copper cable from Home Depot to feed your Magico A5s or using an Audionote Litz cable. Heck, you could use a socket wrench as long as it conducts. Power Cords? Don't even get my started. Use whatever 12 gauge chord you can find, it makes no difference as long as electrons can feed your equipment. Don't tell me that the last 6 feet of cable from the power plant to your equipment make a difference whatsoever. Everybody knows that electrons flow like water and no amount of money thrown away on a fancy power cord can make up for the miles and miles of industrial 'non-audiophile' cable used to feed your neighborhood and house. If you disagree with anything I've said, then TRUST THE SCIENCE and get help. You are obviously a Snake Oil addict. Don't trust your ears, ever. They will lie to you and the lies increase in volume depending on how much money you threw away on whatever wasteful item you purchased. Just stick to 12awg Southwire on nearly everything and put the money you've saved on something more worthwhile, like a degree in Electrical Engineering or better measuring equipment. Now if you will excuse me, I have consume my daily popcorn rations. One final note. In the future it is a crime punishable by death to ask about 'directionality' of a capacitor or resistor. Outer foil for capacitors? How dare you. A resistor installed 'forward or backwards' My Goodness, the blasphemy. How can something sound different when they all sound the same? I just don't understand how these religious zealots propagate their false beliefs even in my timeline.
Assuem however you concur that new capacitors can sound markedly better than old capacitors simply because they are working out ; and because its difficult to unsolder the capos and take them out to test, simply reasonable to replace them all after say 20 or more years ?
@@johnwhite2576 Oh John, be careful not to get too close to the Snake Oil lava pit or you might fall in! In a properly formed circuit, all capacitors as long as they are functioning should sound 100% identical. If they sound different it is due to them somehow making up for a deficiency in the circuit design. Nichicon KG should sound identical to a Mundorf AG and both of those should sound identical to an ELNA LAO series. Old or new it doesn't matter. Same goes for resistors, some people like to use Vishay Nude resistors and claim to hear a difference, but the only difference is that they got suckered out of their money! Again, trust the science, trust Fauci...I mean, Amir and know that every single time you claim to hear anything different is due to snake oil. NEVER, John, and this is serious here because I don't want you to become one of those zealots that are hunted down in the future Audiophile Wars, NEVER trust your ears. They are pathetic instruments that include a worthless biological 'eardrum' that uses some low tech method of changing vibrations into electricity that must be interpreted by a brain. Absolutely low tech and disgusting and whoever engineered that obviously had no clue how to design a system, much less something as complex as an audio system. We all know that a mind can be corrupted by lies, such as by reading too many forum posts about speaker cable and power cord DIYs. Worry not, this can be corrected with proper re-education. Just make sure that you don't trust your ears because smarter people than you have mountains of graphs and data and degrees and will snivel with righteousness at your caveman mysticism thinking that dielectric constants can impact the sound. Electrons are electrons, just keep repeating that and know that you are with the smart crowd. Whatever you do, PLEASE do not EVER make a power cord using 4 strands of VH Audio Airlok Copper 18AWG wire lightly twisted and terminated with Furutech Gold spades and soldered with Mundorf MSolder Supreme Silver Gold fitted to Oyaide AP-004 and AP-029 (Ebay). Don't you DARE use three times the length of your Hot Wire for the Neutral and Ground using Take 5 Audio 12 Gauge cryo wire and make some sort of Helix Style DIY Power Cord (Don't Google Helix DIY power cord). If they find this in your house, in the future, it is a death sentence. When they knock on your door for inspection, you walk those inspectors to every piece of gear you have in your system and let them see that you are using nothing but generic power cords. You let them know that you trust the science. Stay strong my friend, do not fall into temptation and do not experiment in audiophile la-la land. Just know that everything that there is to be known, is already known. This is ESTABLISHED SCIENCE and you are in no position to question it, because there is nothing to discover and everything that can possibly be known is already known because we have equipment that can measure stuff. Electrons are electrons, remember that. Know that, BE THAT! There is no nuance that can be accepted John. If you believe that capacitors or cables or ANYTHING else make a difference, then you are 100% in with the crowd that believes that putting 1 pound of $4000 Japanese Audiophile Cotton in the corner of your room can really 'open up your top end.' (i.e. actual crazy people) Those people are just as bonkers crazy as the types of 'audiophiles' that think there is still much left to be discovered when it comes to electricity and audio. Don't fall in with the wrong crowd, stay with the high IQ people and savor the effervescent audio nirvana of pure ROMEX like a rational well adjusted human being who values their money.
@@WhatAreYouJewingHere Do I detect a touch of skepticism here? DUH! For me personally, I use just about a foot of Home Depot 12awg Southwire from my amps (that sit atop of my DIY speakers) with great results. Just doesn't look as fancy as the expensive audiophile bling cables.
@@StewartMarkley THIS IS THE WAY! Good on you for not falling for the snake oil money trap and using established and measurable science. You can swap those 12AWG Southwire parts out for 12AWG .999 Fine Silver from Rio Grande Metals (www.riogrande.com/product/999-Fine-Silver-Round-Wire-12-Ga-Dead-Soft/105312) and you know what would happen to the sound? Absolutely nothing. Some say Silver wire accentuates the high notes and removes some bass. Rubbish crazy talk, I will have no part in that religion of snake oil. But then they'll say "Oh, but Silver is NOTORIOUS for needing Burn in!" My head is about to....explode. Burn in? I can understand mechanical break in of a speaker but how exactly to you 'burn in' a piece of wire? Sure you could put it on a Hagerman signal generator and waste your time and money, and sure you might 'think' that the sound 'opens up' after 72 hours or so, but really its just you being on absolute crack and not having enough of an auditory memory to know that it sounded the same at hour 1, hour 2 and hour 72 on the signal generator. Its just that every hour that went by you remembered how much money you threw away on the Hagerman and your imagination ends up filling in the gaps of denial and all of a sudden 'Oh, I think I hear something." Stewart, one foot of that pure silver would cost you less than $40. Do you know how much that would cost from an 'audiophile' company? Hundreds if not thousands depending on the bling factor. Please, whatever you do, if you get bored and get the itch to just try it and let it 'burn in' (which is complete BS) over the course of a month or so, DON'T. Please do NOT get that cable and do your own experiment and see if you can hear any difference at all between the Southwire and the .999 pure silver for better or for worse the moment you install it. If you think you hear something, then I have a mountain of data and scientific evidence ready to drop on you that proves how foolish you are and that it is your imagination. BUT, if you THINK you hear something, then please by all means go ahead and spend 15 hours setting up a quadruple blind test with 4 people and livestream the results, because that is the only way to prove that you aren't absolutely insane. Or, you can continue to use your Southwire then rest assured that you have already reached the end of the frontier, the pinnacle of the mountain and that all the science and data support this claim. Trust the science, electrons are electrons, as long as there isn't too much resistance it all sounds 10000% exactly the same. Finally there is somebody smart enough, scientific enough and open minded enough to have the COURAGE to speak truth to the Audiofool System of Power and Deception and bring the entire empire down. Amir is the voice in the wilderness for now, but in my time there are statues built for him and he is considered one of our founders.
@@WhatAreYouJewingHere Ha! I have to tell you that back in the 1960s I used to build and race 1/24th scale slot cars and for a time I had a motor that used 25 gauge silver wire instead of copper (actually I think it was an alloy) and did that sucker ever run fast. I wish I still had it today, I would have to unwind the armature and use the wire to connect one of my speakers and see if I could hear any difference between it and the other speaker with Southwire. Oh but after at least 72 hours of burn-in. 🤣
"Audiophiles" cannot possibly justify the expense of "high-end" cable by performance. The argument is dead. But....they can still hear the massive improvements...because they want to.
Well you might as well use a 2.5mm solid core electricity mains cable in your system, if you think all cables sound sound the same, because according to you won't hear a sound with a muddy thuddy, poor timing, poor resolution, with no delicate mids and high frequency resolution.
I do think wire gauge size matters. If you have a high current amp, lets say 35A output (like my Musical Fidelity) to control your speakers (motors) then I find using #8 or even smaller #10 gauge wire allows the amp to control the speaker much better than #18 gauge speaker wire. And I try and keep them short as possible to eliminate any voltage drop especially for smaller gauge wires. I bet 12 gauge would work very well too. That is about the only difference I found.
Amazing. I used to design and run PA systems for touring that were modestly sized two and 3-way systems. The stadium bands would have systems with 4 or 5 bands of amplification. I know first-hand why active crossovers are better than passive, but bi-wiring is more like a kid putting a playing card in the spokes of his bicycle and pretending he's riding a motorcycle.
I completely agree, but what are your thoughts on bi-amping? Assuming using same manufacture amps with same overall wattage. (E.g., Two 50 watt amplifiers, vs One at 100w) would love to hear your input.
@@mostyles328 as I noted before, biamping usually isn't enough. The whole reason for using active frequency division is because electrical power works more efficiently than with passive crossovers. By putting attenuation where there's not so much power, less electrical power is lost to heat at each crossover point. By dividing frequencies at line level, very little electrical power is lost to heat, and so more electrical power turns into acoustical power. If you can double or triple the efficiency of the system, that's a big savings in money. If you can do the same work that a ton of power amplifiers make with passive crossovers does, but with only half a ton of amps, then your shipping costs are also reduced in a big way. Efficiency is better, distortion is less, win-win.
@@StringerNews1 To recap, you are recommending to use active crossovers at the line levels instead of passive ones used in the speakers. Narrowing your frequency band before it hits the separate power amplifiers would increase each amps efficiency. Allowing each amp only concentrating on at given freq. range and therefor increasing greater gain from each separate amp used in Bi-Amping. Do you have any active crossover you would recommend? (equipment: Rotel integrated and RB-1070 thinking of using for the bottom end of some Wharfedale evos, or my old paradigm reference sound good too. BYW, Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it!
@@mostyles328 I'm not in the business of recommending anything, especially consumer gear. Back when I did this kind of thing, I used an off-the-shelf active crossover like the Crown VFX2A, or one of several Rane models. This sort of analog electronics has mostly been replaced with microcontroller-based loudspeaker management systems that perform multiple tasks in the digital domain. For home use, a speaker system would need to have that option, and that's something we just don't see in consumer gear. The ATC SCM150ASL speakers that I use at home are tri-amplified by an internal amplifier plate or an external chassis. There's a passive model for people who value the look of an audio shrine with ostentatious displays of consumer spending. But the very costly shrine doesn't sound as good as the active setup.
@@StringerNews1 I've thought for a while the future of real 'audiophile' gear should be the Genelec / Meridian route with digital connections directly to active speakers. Of course, finding a processor that will do this is ridiculously expensive (despite the fact it should be cheaper). I've since realized that audiophiles are not in the market for the best sound, but rather the best looking HUGE pile of electronics that accomplish nothing measurable. Dedicated DAC per channel with separate power supplies? CHECK! Fancy power conditioners? CHECK! Magic distortion-inducing components that sound better as directly measured by cost? CHECK! McIntosh has nailed it...just sell industrial design with lots of illuminated logos and black glass.
Thanks Amir. I spent $15,000 on a really excellent pair of large floor standing loudspeakers and $34 on a 20 metre roll of 12 gauge twin copper cable I use for speaker cables. Many audiophiles obsess over trivia and spend money on fancy cables instead of spending money where it really matters. At least these cables you tested are reasonably priced if you do not wish to solder your own plugs etc but the very expensive cables are fraudulent.
I wonder when someone will convince all those audiophiles that any connections are bad. All wires should be soldered to the Amp output and should be soldered to the speaker inputs. No connections, no losses! Imagine all those soldering experts visiting people at home soldering things together. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if I just started a new trend. ;)
Did you test the cable with your ears because as he said the Morrow is reasonable for hi end cables , it is beyond reasonable its cheap . I don't believe in spending big money on cables but they make a difference .
@@deangale4496 :-/ Still not convinced??? Even when a credited professional in the audio industry who's goal is to test and actually find differences both objectively and subjectively still cannot detect or provide any differences whatsoever? If there is No Change in the Frequency Response (Amplitude Response), there is also No Change in what you will hear out of your loudspeakers. Period. Amir demonstrated beyond any doubt that there was absolutely no possible discernible difference between these two cables for their intended use. In his MANY years of professional experience and testing in controlled environments, he has already conducted innumerable Double-Blind A/B/X LISTENING tests that have correlated and corroborated his measurements. So when he performs his objective tests, he already knows from vast experience that there will be no audible difference, and there is no need to waste time listening. In regards to these two particular cables that measure the same, if you "think" that you hear a change, it is your mind and psycho-acoustics that are in play and are the weak link. Yes *some* cables can/do make an audible difference IF they are poorly terminated and/or are specifically DESIGNED to induce a change in the frequency response via increased resistance, capacitance, inductance, etc, and some very expensive "High-End" cables do purposefully induce a change. But if you think that your particular cables somehow improve the characteristics of your loudspeakers compared to a "good" standard cable, then it is a problem or deficiency in the performance of the loudspeakers themselves, and you would be much better served by correcting those issues or getting better speakers, rather than using poor quality cables to "correct" your loudspeaker's problems. You are welcome to purchase these cables and some standard OFC "zip cord" wire and conduct the Double-Blind A/B/X listening test yourself and report back with your honest findings. As long as both cables are of a sufficient wire gauge to support the output power of your amplifier(s), there will be no difference in performance. Try it, without knowing which cable is connected to your system while listening.
As long as they run with these claims I think they are ripping people off, and I would classify it as a very real scam. Remove the claims however, and it 'lifts the veil' as it were.
Amir, you cant measure the feeling a high premium audio product has affects to some ears. the size of the ears increase about 300%, i can send you pictures, if you dont belive. downside: the brains decrease to tadpole level, which i can also send pictures. a human is no measurement system AND it is the weakest part in a testing system which leads to: no one of the big eared self professional cable gurus deny double blind tests always, of fail, also always.
Amir, sometimes it's not just about the question of expensive or cheap, but about choosing the right measurement method. To illustrate this, the following example: Put metal spikes and a glass plate under your speaker or your amp, then replace them with rubber balls and a wooden plate. Do you hear any difference ? Yes. Can you verify this with periodic 1000 Hz sinusoidal signals? No. Why? Because the measurement method is wrong.
I agree with you. I spent $150.00 for a pair of 13 ft cables. I replaced my 30 yr. old zip cord. The new replacements are exactly what the seller said with no guarantee on improved sound quality. I'm happy with them. The banana plugs are solid and a snug fit. Well worth the money. Now to open another can of worms. How about audiophiles claiming that glass fuses are no good. Ceramic hi-end fuses make a difference in sound quality??? When will it ever end???
I just finished coming from a video where all these people are convinced that cables make a "huge" difference. I guess many of them don't do an unbiased test. I.e. they always know which item is being used. I still make up connections for cables using sawtooth plugs and shrink tube like the ones on this video. Makes the cable seem more expensive and you get to feel satisfaction from making it yourself!
Hey Amir, I really liked how you tested the cables using the two channels and subtraction. It reminded me to try and reach you via message to say that I think it would be great if you added a Null test to your arsenal of test methods. For me it gives me very quick answers to the question "is one thing not like the others"? Send the same signal but 180° out of phase through the two wires and see what is left over. The null test will very quickly show any difference or lack there of and it makes more sense to non-technical people looking at data on graphs and test equipment. Just my $.02 How is it legal for the Morrow website to make false claims from their products? Are we supposed to report them to the better business bureau? Who should we report them to? I really am getting sick of these audio companies that lie so blatantly to their customers yet they fly under the radar of agencies that should regulate them. I don't expect everyone to be an electrical engineer like myself so I feel there should be protection for people against scrupulous snake oil salesman. There is only so much myself and other can do for the community because the indoctrination is so deep already that common people don't even listen to engineers anymore, they actually think they know more than the professionals. It's so bad you will get kicked from groups for actually trying to protect the consumer. I think a huge part of the problem revolves around the fact that most people do not understand how human perception actually works. We do not passively process objective data from the physical world around us, we actively produce our own reality from a very small amount of real world data. The brain and our senses are just not capable of objective analysis of the physical world. This is why blind testing for audio is absolutely critical to get any sort of meaningful data. If blind testing can confirm something measured then and it's repeatable to peers then it is fact. It's called the scientific method and it works for everything except audio equipment apparently lol.
Hello Captain. :) Null tests are challenging due to ADC clock drift. As a result, identical captures will still be different when you do a null test. That said, your suggestion is a good one and I am working on ways to get around this for cable testing.
I like to test them but I prefer someone else buys them than me. I still have one of this fancy crossovers for which I paid a ton of money to evaluate. You would think if he is very confident of the merits of the product he would send me one for testing....
@@AudioScienceReview He’ll say your equipment is trash and could never compare to his super human hearing 😅 But I agree, you shouldn’t have to pay for it. There’s no way you’ll get a return from YT views compared to the price of the cables.
I would like to have seen a measurement of the LCR parameters of the cables. Also, a distortion measurement of the cable with a transient source signal, perhaps an impulse, so we could investigate any potential phase anomalies. 30 gauge wire wrap wires would probably give identical results given the way you tested but I'm confident they wouldn't sound too good.
I get this request a lot but I rather treat these tweaks and just measure the sound waves. That way, everyone can understand what we are talking about. Most people are not comfortable knowing what to do with LCR parameters. As for the rest, I did measure phase, etc. and there was absolutely no difference. Impulse tests must be done within the audio bandwidth as otherwise, you are using signals that are not representative of the actual application. As an example, an RF coax cable would do wonders here due to ultra high bandwidth but has too much resistance to be useful as a speaker cable.
@@AudioScienceReview My coax cables have very low resistance: awbroadcast.com/produkt/rfs-cellflex-lcf158-50ja-kabel/. But for speakers any electrical cable of 4-10mm² will be sufficient.
Oh man, this cable thing hahaha.... If you apply the same rationale "cable guys" use to anything, they'll probably think a US$70k ethernet cable improves the resolution of their images and videos in their screens.
Thanks Amir for showing that there is no audible difference with the Morrow SP3. You have to spend LOTS, TONS more money to get a cable with any audible difference. Check out the MIT ACC 268 Revision 2 Articulation Control Console speaker cable at $111,995.00 for an 8-foot bi-wire version. Reading the "technical explanation" of their Multipole Articulation is a riot, very entertaining.
I Agree that these kind of cables are only good for esthetic/durability over cables of similar wire gauges. but there is something to be said about having a good connection between your gear, having the right sized cables for everything, and running your cables correctly. and there are some rare cases where the cables you use can affect sound quality... For example: a 30 foot run of poor quality 24+ gauge speaker wire may have a negative affect on sound quality if you pump a couple hundred watts through it, due to the the fact that the wire may not be able to efficiently conduct the current running through it, especially at lower impedances such as 2 or even 4 ohm loads, with some amps even having trouble driving an unstable output impedance. not to mention smaller gauge wire isn't nearly as robust, being more susceptible to less than ideal conditions, such as being walked on, having objects run over it such as furniture, the rigors outdoor use, or just general wear and fatigue incurred over it's lifetime... Very poor quality connections such as loose wires and ill fitting connectors between your amp and speakers could result in "micro-arcing" that may cause a small amount of noise, especially on very high efficiency speakers such as horns. - as far as signal cables go: poor quality balanced cables such as questionable Off-brand XLR cables may incur more noise on longer runs than decent ones that are up to spec. running wires too close or across each other or AC mains can introduce noise and crosstalk between signal cables. spooling up cables that are WAY too long for your application can create inductance, which can cause signal issues such as noise in some gear due to inductive loads. (I had this issue with a 30 foot cable I only needed a couple feet of) - most of these on their own may not be audible in the average room or with cheap gear, but they can add up and become noticeable, some of which can have surprising affects at their worst case scenarios. - But as far as my preferences go: Speaker wire? I just use black, 12 gauge OFC lamp cord from home depot, with tape marking the polarity verified by my multimeter. I can easily wire up a 2 channel system for under $20. Extremely versatile too, the cable has more durability, flexibility, and power transmission capability than one will ever need in their home! Signal wire? I use run-of-the-mill RCAs, keeping my runs as short as possible, taking care not to cross then or run them too close to AC mains power supplies, or noisy electronics such as my PC. CONCLUSION: It doesn't really matter what you have as long, as you use it properly, and it has the specs suitable for your application...
I think you have great videos but I think that your measurement is wrong. Seems to me from your measurement, that you do not fully understand the goal of audiophile music. It is not about the frequency range, it is about the raising and falling edge of signal which is of course related to frequency response. It is about reproducing high dynamic range, e.g. going from 0V to 30V in smallest time possible. Good example is hitting the strings of guitar. That is why profis are using square signal to measure rising and falling time of electric circuit to check RLC influence of e.g. loudspeaker cable. You could use also sine wave with frequency around/above 20 kHz and then compare amplitude between 2 cables. So your 1kHz test on 20V is a funny joke. Could you do following test between 2 different quality cables? -cable length cca. 5m (usal in homes) -load cca. 8Ohm -output square signal cca. 1kHz with +/- max. peak 35V (assuming +/-50V power supply trafo in amplifier) or 20kHz sine wave with +/- max. peak 35V. -result: measure rising and falling time caused by RLC characteristic of cable (in case of 20khz sine vawe, the amplitude) I do not know if there will be difference but this is the way I would do the comparative measurement.
I like how in the comments here that so many people imply “OFC” matters. It doesn’t. It’s just another BS audiophools term used to make people think they know an important secret, but it’s actually irrelevant.
Once you get past a certain point in hi end audio you are buying art work. Plain and simple, which is fine, as long as people understand where their money is going. I've always said, phono to pre-amp cables are more noticed, from say CD to pre-amp less so, from pre-amp to power-amp less, and amp to speakers, least. And don't get me started on power cord! How stupid to think the power cord is going to have ANY audible effect. People don't seem to realize that placebo effect you really do hear a difference, but it's in your brain, not the equipment. Argued with some guy who kept saying, "then why do I hear a difference?"
@Randy G, Kinda makes me laugh, You can show absolute scientific proof that two audio signals are identical and they'll argue there's some magical element to the sound that can't be measured but with trained audiophile ears that defy all the laws of physics you can hear it. And they say they understand the placebo effect then deny that it has any effect on them. The one I get a kick out of debating is power cords. Being an electrician I totally understand the purpose of a power cord, what goes thru it and the absolute non effect different cords can have on the AC power. AND where it is in the signal chain, It isn't ! I had one guy telling me exactly what you were saying, but I can hear the difference and you have to try it and see, which I have. Then he just proceded to start telling me I was just lying about trying different cords. And the circles of illogic they start talking in is amazing. Sorry for the rant, don't really care what people with more money than brains do with it, just don't like to see people who have to spend wisely get sucked in.
@Randy G , yup. Like in criminal law, the eye witness was once thought to be the best witness. But then along came fingerprints, ballistics, DNA, and suddenly we find the eye witness is quite fallible.
Excellent excellent video. my cable of choice is 12 AWG pure copper from Amazon $39 for a 50 foot roll. Then gold plated banana connectors and snake skin given an 8 foot cable each up to around $15. Perfect speaker cables. Paired with my Yamaha AS1200 integrated amp driving my ESS AMT 1 speakers and Pro-Ject turn table. Unbelievable.
Your videos are great, but this one leaves me curious. You use the engineering industry standard 0dB reference, but that’s not a standard at the output of differing amplifiers. I’m not surprised speaker cables perform the same if you’re only testing at a few watts or at higher frequencies. Also, the dynamics are exacerbated with a highly amplified signal. What I need to know are the ripple measurements (rise and decay), particularly across the audible frequency range, of various cables. I know for a fact I could hear a difference between $0.50/ft 18ga cables and $4/ft multi-core 12ga cables when running 1kW RMS (both unterminated) to subwoofers. I’d put money on it for a blind A/B test. Now those $1k+ cables making claims of superiority…I’d call those out on being jewelry or snake oil.
Amir: first note I am an EE. I have known for years that much of the "audiophile" stuff is simply a rip off. You are proving it. Though I have one question brought to mind by the statement of a now passed famous EE - Robert Pease. When Bob was noting some of these nutty audio 'discrepancies' - he mentioned a way to build speaker cables cheaply which should out preform line cord etc. His approach was to take a multi conductor twisted pair ribbon cable and parallel all the black and all the colored conductors making a cable with very low impedance. In round numbers imagine a single twisted pair at 100ohms, and 50 in parallel at 100/50 = 2 ohms. So 2ohms in series with a nominal 8ohms, compared to 100ohms in series with 8ohms, would obviously provide more signal as frequency increases. BUT then of course - does it matter at audio frequencies? And does the tone control not correct for such a situation? My thought is that he was wrong given the wave length of 20kHz signals, but Bob was a guru. How could he be wrong? For me at least this would be an interesting measurement. Thoughts? Hum,... I wonder if it relates to skin effect,...
@Douglas Blake The sensor is half the story. The magic happens in the human brain and none of that equipment can come even close to approximating that.
I once nearly got sucked in by exotic speaker cables, but my brain and wallet said no. So all I have is one red and one white single conductor house wiring cable, in a lightly twisted, short run of two metres per side. Does the business for me. No need for me to concern myself with the maths, or the physics or the electrical vagaries of oxygen free cables and such. It leaves me to spend my entire time listening to music. Great isn't it? And thanks Amir for lending considerable weight to my beliefs....
Some cheap cables can be quite nasty. I may do a review on them. For now, see: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-12-gauge-wire-is-not-12-gauge.3/
Does the Marketing collateral for it list a bullet item o- includes a BONUS test for your confirmation bias ?? They couldn't even coordinate the blue and white with a respective red and black stripe. For that you must buy their top of the line model at double the price.
This is not right aproach to measure cable influence , metodology is not right. It does not valuate realation beteween amp, cable , speaker complex load and crossover. We dont hear sound from the speaker binding post, but from speaker itself. It be a bit more relevant if mic was in front of speakers , and then to compare recorded samples with different cables using analyzer . He messure cable Thd? What a joke, of course the wire got no any signifcant Thd, this is not what counts here. Different speaker cables, material, geometry (not have to be expensive ) change sounstage, and that matters.... but not for him. He even dont listen things in his “reviews”, so all who make audio decionsions on measurment only ....well, i wish them good luck.
I mean ok, i spent not so much money on a qed xt25 so what is see in this vid it worths no so much but at least it wont corrode and looks better in a modern house than an old copper wire.
There is so much misinformation and fake claims in the audio equipment space. One of my favorites is that replacing the links, on 5 way speaker binding posts, with “brand X” loops of wire, will make a huge improvement in soundstage, depth, blah blah blah.... I’d love to see you do a transfer function comparison concerning this. Keep up the great videos.
Not sure why you bothered to measure these. People buy them because they look cool, and they can fantasize that the sound is better. It's a bit of harmless fun.
I measure so we have more than argument to prove our points. We can reference hard data and in novel way to see if there are differences. Sometimes I find that these products do worse than the generic ones although that was not the case here. Also, a ton of people are at the border of believing the marketing claims here. I routinely get emails from people saying how happy they were to see a proper explanation of why these cables don't make a difference.
This is a comment I am a hobbyist just like all of you I found something very interesting I will tell you I’m in my 70s I’ve been with hi-fi since 13 years old and they had tubes in anyhow kind of speaker cable that’s just unbelievable blows the pans off audio quest nowhere the price it’s called SKW it’s a Chinese company they use crystallize copper which is absolutely the finest not even audio quest does that and I think if you compare it to any speaker high-end out there to be totally satisfied I’m not gonna tell you the price you can check it out on Amazon and I totally believe that this will blow some peoples ears away and the price is ridiculous and it’s using great product and its bill quality would be a plus I would say build quality of audio quest is a +2 and against Kimber was the closest to this quality of this wire and that was the A-Team anyhow have fun experiment and good listening check it out guys Amazon
Wire doesn't have eyes to see what you connected to it. It acts the same way all the time. The purpose of using a speaker was to give it a speaker load. I then measured exactly what the cable did. You can replace the speaker with anything and the results will be the same relative to the generic cable.
Truth to be told, I did have them lifted up in the air! I wanted to keep them away from AC lines that are at the bottom of my rack. I also took note to drape both cables similarly as they can pick up interference in the first set of tests.
Another great video. I think people would be interested in a video explaining how an audiophile on a budget should spend their time and money for maximum effect.
Given good quality electronics, that can be modestly priced, loudspeakers and room acoustics have the biggest influence on audio quality. Vudget around 70% on speaker’s and attend to position and room acoustics.
@@geoff37s38 Yes, even Geddes preaches that the reproduction quality is 90% due to the quality of the loudspeakers, and the electronics will contribute very little overall as long as they are reasonably within spec. But he attributes less to the room acoustics overall than most would these days, and says that only the worst or most obvious and significant reflections need to be mitigated. In his experience and advice, most average household listening rooms are "adequate", barring obvious high-energy reflections from the floor, ceiling, and side/front/back walls... i.e. having one speaker adjacent to a large reflective window, while the other is adjacent to a tall bookcase or large piece of soft/cushioned furniture will obviously result in subpar results. If the loudspeakers are designed well, the response below the Schroeder Frequency will have the most significant anomalies and influence on that frequency range at your listening position.
🍿Measurements don't tell the whole story. Plenty of gear measures well or similarly, but it doesn't mean that it will all sound the same or good. Some systems are more resolving than others and you may or may not hear a difference. But materials and the compounds that go into cable compounds, like steel alloys, all have their own designed properties. Just like capacitors and etc may measure to their designed specified values, doesn't mean that they will all sound the same. A Panasonic, Nichcon, and Mundorf cap will sound different even if they share the same values. The implementation matters too. It's great that you acknowledged the craftsmanship, value, and quality of the cables which are handmade with care. And yes, these craftmans may not make much, but its great to see & hear they do a great job. The marketing hype I agree is cheesy, but we as smart consumers need to do our due diligence. Most cable manufacturers also have some kind of satisfaction trial period to determine if it's worth it or not to the buyer.✌️
Hello Amir, I have a 12ft cable from Blue jeans and it has impedance of 1.6ohm at 10khz and measures about 55uF and 6uH in capacitance and inductance. I have another cable that is 13ft and it measures about 0.9ohm impedance at 10khz and measures about 45uF and 6uH capacitance and inductance. I used an LCR meter, these both cables are 20$. What do you think?
But you must "BELIEVE", in order to hear the magic of Moron audio pieces of wire..AND soundking 12 ga zip, doesn't lose it's plasticizes, after all the years, still flexible
Exactly how skilled are you, you have debunked cables once again with your fine AP analysis and once again confirmed what all serious audio people have shown over the last 40 years. But the serious ones have wondered that there can still be sound differences, the not serious ones, the non-scientists make a video like yours which explains the not very knowledgeable supporters that there is no sound difference because your measurements show this, you compare with a zip cord, something everyone can understand. Maybe you should think , I am measuring the wrong thing and I do not have the right theory around this.
Hey Amir you should send those 30 or 40 year old cables to Jay's audio lab on RU-vid and him do a comparison test on his 600,000 dollar system and see if there's a audible difference, I bet you 99.99% there will be a difference.
I purchased two cables from them. They are just horrible. Cables have no shielding, If you pair them together it has static noise. If you goto their website, all they put on the main page is their "FAKE" absolutesound awards. This is how they trick you to buy their cables. If you look at other company like Kimber Kable, Siltech....etc they don't give you 50% or 60% off. They constantly give half off for their cables. I opened up one of their cable, and it is the same as those from 99 cents store. Don't be fool by their advertisement. Don't even waste money of their thousand dollars high end cable. They all cheap quality products. When their technician work on your cable, they will take a picture of them. They pretty much use random pictures. This company is just as bad. I emailed them why your RCA cables have static, they said this is normal. I said how come Audioquest interconnect is so quiet, their shielding seem pretty good. They just bad mouth them. OMG.
Hey Amir! Great review. Is there any way I can get you to test a pair of my Magnepan jumpers (steel bars) that came on my 3.7i’s vs a very small piece of 10gauge copper? And maybe the third with a banana plug? Trying to figure out if replacing my factory jumpers is bogus or not:) Thanks!!
I would have liked to see the load on the cables as higher amperage. There would be measurable differences but would they be enough to hear? I have no idea honestly! (Resistance ,inductance and capacitance all should matter or the testing method is flawed)
It doesn't matter what this guy proves here objectively. people are going to keep believing (hearing) whatever they want to hear. There are people in the audio hobby with so much money they don't know what to do with it ....lol
Morrow is a no-name cable that nobody considers seriously. What you should focus on are: Kimber Select Audience Audioquest Crystal Cable Cardas Transparent Tara Labs Synergistic Research to name a few.
As an electrical engineer who has spent countless millions of dollars of other people's money on many different types of wire I use generic Home Depot 16 gage speaker wire. I buy generic interconnects. When Radio Shack went out of business I used the Dollar Store Trisonic brand. Now I'm using Dayton generic. They're better made. A good test for a cable is wire A versus wire A shunted. If there's no difference that's what you want. Wire makes a lousy control element. I use a graphic equalizer anyway so it could hardly matter less. I also use the power cord the manufacturer supplied. If I thought I needed a better one I'd make it myself out of Romex.
I have Nordost, Chord, Canare, and Mogami speaker cables, they all sounds a bit different. Some of the sound signature changes are easily noticeable. I was from the skeptical and non-believer camp but has since been converted.
If they are that easy to tell apart, then do the comparison blind. Should be easy for you. Repeat 10 times and see if you get at least 8 right. Others in your situation have failed such tests.
...and an audiophile coworker just spent thousands on boutique "audiophile grade" Usb and ethernet cables, and a high dollar audiophile ethernet switch
In March audioholics did a more thorough test with their precision wanker I mean Wayne Kerr audio test equipment. They determined Kimber 8TC was the best cable.
@Douglas Blake I'll take another look at it. There were several videos, so maybe I missed it. But I honestly don't remember him actually testing the cable.
I am not a fan of measuring cable parameters themselves. I have done it and may do a video on it but most people have trouble internalizing what L & C mean in cable measurements. In contrast, I show the net results on actual waveforms. My testing also uncovers noise and distortion which you cannot do with impedance measurements of the cable.
@@AudioScienceReview I have never seen any evidence of any cable introducing significant distortion relative to loudspeaker distortion. To test for noise i.e. RFI, EMI, hum etc you would need some sort of controlled environment and maybe comparing it to some sort standard reference cable. But what do you use you as a reference cable because it has to have high quality control.
@@AudioScienceReview What your measurements show are just averages as Laplace transform is just an integral i.e. the average. Of course that averages are the same. Nobody denies that. The true difference is in the time domain as clearly explained by Ben Duncan in 1995.
He didn’t, he don’t listen components when he review it. Measurment is his “religion”, but he listen some speakers in mono only. Making audio opinon on stereo sistems only by measurment is not relevant.
Looks like Morrow Audio offers a Cable Break-in Service for only $29 they will play a signal over your cable for 3 days for $99 they will do it for 20 days, before they send it to you!
Hi Amir, but tiny cables vs thick ones: resistance is big difference. It might have no impact on frequency response but will for sure limit the current (so the power). And lower the speakers impedance, and longer the cable is, the impact will be higher. Am I mixing things here?
12 or 14 gauge standard copper cable is all that is required for short runs in a home system as there will be very little resistance added by the cable.
@@geoff37s38 that is not really scientific answer ;-) My speakers are nominal 8 Ohms but min is around 3.5 Ohm. "Short run" is also not much of specification: 5m? 15? So in summary: resistance matter, for sure. I have now 12 AWG but before I had 16 and once changed I hear more beef
@@geoff37s38 you would be surprised Geoff ;-) If amp has peak 20V, and you have pair of cables (+ and -) lets say 7.5m from amp (in my case), it gives you 15m of 12AWG cable. That is close to 0.3 Ohm (both wires). With impedance of speaker reaching in the worst part of frequency around 3 Ohms we are talking 10% of the power being lost in the cable. Now go to 14 AWG... you got my point, right?
My three prong 12 gauge power extension cable combine into 7 gauge is much better than regular 14 gauge speaker cable, improved bass (160Hz) in my monitor audio RS1 at least 3 db, which is measured by Radio shack sound meter.
As with all "premium" speaker/power cable, they don't science. This is my shocked face...But as you say, it's not outrageously priced and measures well, and it looks good. I use Kimber 8TC for those reasons and they don't make silly claims on their web site for the most part. Lets get a company make claims of superiority only golden ears can hear to fund a legit blind A/B trial you design.
