An easy way to ensure long term reliability is to premix your rotary engine. In this episode, Kenny goes over premixing, why you do it, how much to do, and what to use.
I love this content! I'm thinking of getting a project RX7 and these videos are really helping me understand how different these cars are. PLEASE KEEP POSTING VIDEOS LIKE THESE
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Try to watch the video again and understand the principles of it, I am afraid your totally incorrect here, speak to any specialist who knows their stuff and they will recommend running premix oil.
@@essexrotary1540 Premixing is monumentally dumb and will do nothing but damage a healthy engine. Mixing 2stroke oils in the fuel lowers the effective octane rating and increases the possibility of apex seal damage due to detonation, pre-ignition or erratic combustion. 2stroke oils also increase the amount of detergent ash and carbon deposits. Anyone that recommends premix is either trying to sell you a shitty, overpriced, asian brand of scooter oil or is simply not sufficiently educated or knowledgeable enough to speak intelligently on this topic. Learn to read and understand the manufacturers service and maintenance procedures and the specifications printed on every bottle of motor oil. Don't be that moron that pours the wrong oil in the wrong filler hole.
How can I tell whether the amount of premix I'm using is enough. Like will i be able to tell from any oil temperature/engine temperature read outs? Also, does premixing 2 stroke oil/idemitsu require bigger injectors? 850cc+ or do you risk clogging injectors if you stick that those?
Good vid. Very important that people get educated on how to care for rotary engine... especially now that the FD3S is eligible for import. Also.. it's "e-de-mitsu" :)
Hello!!thanks for those infos! i would like to know what to consider to determine the max rpm of a rotary.. oil pressure, boost, balance? what is the limiting factor, what mods can be done to tune to higher rpm etc!
I presume the S5 gives you a warning light on the dash if the OMP goes bad as it's electronically injecting oil into the engine from there in the S5s. Is this correct?
Quick note for rotary geeks: stay away from Royal Purple as your oil if you're in a cold climate ... Racing Beat etc. can recommend it down there in sunny California, but up here in Canada it just turns to sludge in the cold.
*Well, if you are a true rotary expert??? You know that the preferred lubricant is castor oil... but this is really a moot point because we are discussing **_WANKEL_** engines made by Mazda... stick to the stock metered oil injection system and the recommended 4-stroke motor oil for spark ignition engines.*
*Mazda specifically recommends API SL/ EC-GF3 4-stroke "S" type motor oil only.* *2-stroke oils eg; EC E-GD, API TC, JASO-FC 2-stroke oils DO NOT meet this detergent motor oil specification and should never be used.*
Is the second gen 13b intake facing the other way vs a first gen? my intake faces the left if looking at it from the front and am going turbo 13b as well and was wondering how I was going to fit a turbo and intake all on the same side. Would a second gen intake bolt up?
Is the oil to gas ratio the same for the rx8 in my case I have a 2004, not sure what ratio to try, I'm new, also the omp is NOT blocked off and I was planning on running 92-93 unleaded gas I was probably gonna use 93 from Sunoco
Hey I have factory rx7 twin turbo I just get the vehicle. Use premium fuel or regular??? I like the idea to premix looks like help to maintain the engine with 100% lubricate
Been subscribed for years and finally picking up my first rotary. Do you have a video on “bandaids” to help a RX8 with suspected low compression? I wanna get the most life until I either decide rebuild or swap
There's a "third option" called remote-sourced oil metering pump, which uses a separate source of oil besides using oil in your engine and oil (premix) in your gas tank. I can imagine this option will let you run any premix with e85. Just throwing it out there.
Still does not address the spray pattern issue of oil vs fuel injectors. However, yes, this is a much better way of doing it IMHO. Whenever I get around to building a track only car, I will be running this plus some premix.
*Does not address the root problem of apex seal failure... which is erratic combustion. Pre-mixing is DUMB because it does nothing to address the problem and makes the problem WORSE!!!*
~500 huh? at what output would you recommend strengthening the keg/block with pins or upgraded tension bolts? and thanks for the e85 tip, I'm considering going that route since my s5 is being built for the track here in CA.
Michael Rodgers depends on which block. This motor has goopy half inch oversized tension bolts. TIIs you'll need it around 300-350, REWs need it around 500-600
Thank you so much. I've been wondering for a while, what if I got a Mazda Wankel, disabled/removed the stock oiling system, and just ran it on 2stroke premix, like Amsoil. No one answered me, until I found this video. Did no one answer me because I was asking mostly in 2stroke videos? Is it because wankels are rare, or is this some unspoken dark art? I was looking for lightweight engines with great power-to-weight ratios, for a motorcycle project. I was looking at gas-turbines, but I wanted to give Wankels & 2strokes another look, and plan around mixing oil at a gas-station, or have separate tanks, drain one premix tank, switch to another, go to a station when I have the opportunity, fill the empty tank with a certain amount of gas, then add a predetermined amount of 2stroke oil, that will mix in the tank, as I ride. Don't have to worry about cops, or other degenerates messing with me while I calculate & mix oil. Whether hooning at night, avoiding cops, or having to gas up at a shady station, I think my 2 tank idea with a switcher valve, is the best option, if I was going to rely on a 2stroke or Wankel. Again, thank you. Subscribed.
Hey Kenny, thanks for the presentation of your video about pre-mixing. Funny thing, I heard from a guy on his rotary***.com website that a person should shy away from using synthetic blends or straight synthetic 2 cycle oil because of the deposits synthetics leave in the internal parts of the rotary engine. About the only non-synthetic, I can find is Briggs & Stratton 2 cycle oil. It states that it is ashless. There's always someone that has different opinions from me; I don't know about you. Anyway, thanks again for the video.
First off, there are 5 different classes of synthetic base stock polymeric molecules used in motor oil, they all have different characteristics. Secondly, the API does not recognize any difference in mineral, synthetic or synthetic blends and considers the the word "synthetic" a completely meaningless marketing or advertising term. The API only recognizes 2 base stock classes based on lubricity performance, not formulation.
Mazda recommends 4-stroke motor oil with a API SL or EC-GF3 rating both which meet ASTM D-7097. This specifies Max. allowable ash deposits of 45 mg. 0.1% by Mass. The highest ashless 2-stroke oil ratings EXCEED this specification by at least 250%. This exactly why Mazda specifically requires 4-stroke oil not 2-stroke oils. Don't waste your time and money following bad advice that will only harm your engine. Follow the manufacturers specifications and ignore people who try to sell you a very overpriced, low quality Asian brand 2stroke oil because they claim it will save your apex seals. Any fool can pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole, follow your owners manual and don't be that guy.
tc-3 ... u dont need to spend a lot of money... i actually buy the one they sell at 7-11brand.... not new to this been playing with rotarys since the 80s
On a Rx8 series 1 you should premix 1 ounce to 1.5 ounces a gallon because unlike their series II counterparts, they only have two OMP injectors instead of the three. On a series II you can premix between 1 to .5 ounces per gallon and be fine.
Question: say I'm looking at a completely stock fd rx7 from 1999 - import to the UK. Do you still recommend premixing for daily use? For track work, I appreciate it might make much sense to premix.
Love your vidios kenny i have a ? Is ok if just put oil in my 1988 rx7 is a stock motor and the emp is working is it ok if i put premix on it too?i appreciate it
If you use synthetic it won't create any smoke, however, it will make the fumes more prominent regardless of which oil you use. Don't premix before a emissions test (smog) or you will fail.
one thing you need to watch out for is leaning out your mixture since the oil doesn't burn. ie at 50:1 fuel to oil you now have 2% less fuel on the same mapping. maybe it was a bigger problem with 2stroke mx bikes. also Amsoil interceptor or denominator oils would be a good choice. great premix synthetics
There is another premixing lubricant that I researched and said to be pretty good for rotaries called Protek-R. I'm thinking Protek-R and Idemitsu are the best for premixing most Wankels, but there are still other options out there as well
I'm confused on what to use for my s5 fc. I want to use idemitsu but I heard that you can't use synthetic oil in rotaries? Is there a reason why idemitsu is okay to use?
*Mazda does not recommend premixing and there are no 2-strokes oils that meet Mazda's current specifications.* *Mazda says only oil that meets API SL/ EC GF3 is recommended. The API does not recognized any difference between synthetic and non-synthetic base stocks and considers it a completely meaningless marketing term so that false urban myth is completely debunked.* *Never pre-mix engines equipped with metered oil injection and never use 2-stroke oil in 4-stroke engines like the Wankel unless specified by the manufacturer.*
I don't own an rotary. I plan on buying and building a strictly drift car FD in the near future. Ive been watching videos and checking out some forums for research on the future build. My question is if running pump premium and water methanol what would you recommend for premix or what are specific things you've heard work or don't work? the water meth would be for preventing predet and to really help cool the motor.
Hi there, I don't know if anyone will ever read this comment, but I have 2 questions for which I can't seem to find an answer : 1) Isn't the combustion affected by the addition of oil in the fuel system ? I'm conscious that 2-stroke oil is made for this use, but I wonder if the air-fuel ratio could be significantly affected, resulting in an incomplete combustion (the engine not being concieved this way). 2) I read (non verified information) that the insufficient amount of oil provided by the OMP system is due to emmission regulations. Do you believe that an OMP upgrade (stronger flow, bigger injectors) could improve the lubrication enough ? Thank you for reading me, and thanks for your work :) PS : I hope i'm readable, being a french speaker.
Your English sir is excellent. Very good questions. Mazda does not recommend premixing fuel with any type oil. Mixing oil with the air/ fuel mixture significantly reduces the fuels _Effective Octane Rating_ and increases the possibility of apex seal damage due to detonation/pre-ignition and erratic combustion. The primary failure mode of the apex and side seals is not lack of lubrication, but rather damage due to detonation and combustion efficiency problems. 2-stroke oils are specially formulated to be used in 2-stroke engines. All Wankel engines use the 4-stroke operating principle. Mazda only recommends 4stroke motor oil that's meets ASTM D-7079 For a maximum allowed ash/carbon deposits. No 2-stroke oils meet these minimum API specifications (API SL /EC-GF3) or higher. Mazda engineers have after very careful and exhaustive research and testing calibrated the OMP for maximum reliability. It is not recommended that anyone that is not qualified ever tamper with or remove/disable the OMP, this is garanteed recipe for premature engine failures due to seal damage. I hope that answers your questions
@@sandervanderkammen9230 oh my gosh, you're fucking everywhere 😂 dude, precision and reliability when developing the oil metering pump? that's the Renesis' number one problem, the OMP getting screwed from the factory, get out of here!
great content! keep it up! im a new rotary owner bought a s4 na. also a 88' lol im in the bay area, and the bay area rotary guys are awesome, but these videos are super helpful! let me know if there is any way to help you out, expand for this new year.
In 20 years, I have never seen a pre-S5 metering oil pump fail unless due to some physical trauma. Sure, the lines and injectors get old, and sometimes the pumps leak, both being easy fixes. It's a bit inaccurate to say that the stock metering oil system doesn't mix with the fuel. Indeed until the FD, it does. FCs have a set of oil injectors in the lower intake runners delivering oil to the air stream. Older carbureted rotarys supply oil directly to the carb. Premixing, in my opinion, supported by many years of observation, is a waste of time and money unless the vehicle is heavily modified or a track car. The stock metering oil system is reliable and nearly maintenance free. 1 oz per gallon is approximately twice the oil than delivered by the stock system. Way too much. Plus, for those of us who may store our cars during the winter, premix will separate from the fuel and build up over time.
Premix does not separate from fuel quickly. It stays suspended for over a year at the minimum. When I speak about premix and fuel mixing, I mean it's literally mixed and sprayed through the fuel injector. We've seen several OMP failures. From 70s vehicles all the way to FDs.
I'd be curious to find out how many "it dun blowed up" moments have been caused by accidental or intentional excess premix. Yes, premix is cheap insurance, but it stops being cheap insurance when it builds up in the tank and suddenly your "safe" tune ain't so safe anymore.
The omp system has injected a substantially smaller amount of oil per unit of gas with every iteration. The FD injects about half of the S5, and the rx8 is even more dangerously skimpy. Premixing fully without use of the omp is more consistent than you think, and running synthetic oil will do wonders for your bearings and turbo. However, if I could have the option of running synthetic that didn't gum up the housings when used with an omp, and running 1/2 oz per gallon of premix, I would
Sorry if it's an obviously stupid question, but is there any way to premix if you have LPG set up? Because it has that special kind of plug, and you can't just pour oil into it. I don't have LPG yet, but considering that in my country it costs half as much as the basic 95, I'd absolutely like to convert it. Any ideas or help is appreciated!
*You should never pre-mix any Renesis engine... Premix does NOT prolong the life of your engine if your OMP is operating correctly and will only cause long term damage. Mazda and it team of engineers DOES NOT recommend premixing any production engine equipped with metered oil injection.*
*ALL Wankel engines are 4-STOKE. 2-stroke lubricants should NEVER BE USED as they DO NOT meet Mazda's motor oil specifications. 2-stroke motor will cause long term damage to the engine, fuel and emissions systems.*
Great content :) I have a 2009 RX8-R3. Apparently the 2009 and up models have a 3rd lubrication nozzle that the 2004-2008 models didn't have (they had 2). So do I still need to pre-mix? The previous owner didn't but my compression test (Feb1st, 2017) came back excellent so I still am not sure if it is necessary for the model I have or not.
I dont' own an rx-7 but I do have a question. I work in construction heavy equipment, then tamps, saws etc. Lots of the small stuff uses two stroke but we obviously pre mix it in a small gas can and use as needed. If you were to put it in the fuel tank. Would you put the amount of oil you're going to need in before fueling so that as the gas is being pumped in, it'd possibly be mixed more thoroughly or Well I don't really have any other ideas on it. But I am genuinely curious.
I'm pretty sure either one works fine,two-stroke oil mixes really well with gas and the vibration from the enginge should do It's part too. I've never tried it but if you scale down the amounts,try pouring some gas in a plastic container and add a fiftieth(or whatever mixture you're running) of oil to see how it behaves! I'm kind a curious too whether it needs any mechanical influence to mix or if it does so by potentially released chemical energy!
I just bought a 2004 rx 8 yesterday, and so that makes me new....and was wondering where do i put the premmix? ask a stupid question i know....but ive never delt with rotary engines before so i dont know
In the gas tank along with fuel which is where the ratios come into play. But you may see catolitic converter problems if you do so I recommend straight pipe
I would recommend having a plastic tub in your trunk with a measuring cup, premix, and funnel. Fill up the premix before putting the gas in. Great time to pop the hood and check your engine oil level as well (would keep a qt of that in the tub as well).
For 30 years I have owned Rotarys, two RX7, one 1983 12A and the other 1987 Turbo II, I have never had problems with the metering oil pump. I've never had to make a premix. My 1983 12A was running up to 300,000 miles with no problems. I have always used synthetic oil, Ansoil 5W50, and recently, Royal Purple 5W50 each year a Slick 50 additive for oil. Both car are running without problems.
Yes, you'll need to use less premix to avoid dropping the octane of your gasoline too low, your mileage may vary, just hop on a forum and see what others are doing!
Premix always reminds me the good old 2-stroke engines. Since the Wankel engines are 4-stroke, and not requiring a premix has been pointed out as an advantage of reciprocating 4-stroke engines compared to their 2-stroke counterparts, I guess many people would either become confused about Wankel engines or simply reject them because they see premix as a burden that can be avoided with a more conventional engine.
*True, all Wankel engines are 4-stroke. Mazda does recommend pre-mixing for very goods reasons... anyone advising you to pre-mix is simply not qualified to make such recommendations which will only waste money, increase your chances of a premature engine failure and damage sensors and emissions components.*
@@doktorbimmer We premix with a lot lower ratio than a 2-stroke. And the regular oil being supplied to the Apex seal thru the chamber and is getting burned (or the lack thereof) is more damaging (having more deposits) than a 2-stroke oil that is designed to burn easily. People actually block off regular oil supply to the apex seal, then just use 2-stroke oil as the main lubricant, that results in cleaner chamber,
pettit racing uses klotz 2 stroke oil for pre mix Had a fd was all pettit racing did the pre-mix no issues for 20K pre mix your rotary you will happy that you did
Question: Engine braking downhill say 3000rpm ( injectors are at idle fuel flow...are apex seals getting sufficient lubrication from premix at said rpm? Just curious because I switched to premix. Thanks.
@@adws5696 That’s what I thought so too. By theory, rotors would be running dry with no fuel and no oil? I have deleted the oil metering pump like some rotary owners and can’t go back. So I guess we’ll just have to avoid ‘engine braking’? Any suggestions? Thanks.
@Liboy so in that case the only source of lubrication is the fuel, and thats why your supposed to NEVER coast or engine brake. There is a video of Rob Dahm when he says the same.
So that injector clog issue? haha seemed kinda big. How do these effect fuel pumps, filters, and injectors that were not to push something as viscous as oil?
No one has really had problems as far as I'm aware with the e85/oil mixture. Funny enough, we're putting my 10th Anni on the dyno this weekend, I just ordered 128oz of Klotz Supertechnique, we're going to be putting E85 premix to the test.
Oh, so if you're speaking just about gasoline and premix, it's minimal if any effect. 2 stroke oil is designed to work in fuel systems without harming them.
okay i am only working with 1 variable here, not adding any additional stuff like oil pump fail or dog got sucked into the engine. only talking about change oil frequently with thick oil vs premix. probably have the same life expectancy for the engine?
ROTORS okay even with twin turbo. Some people said to remove it with a single turbo. And keep with twins. But just bought one. Thank you for the response
Hello if anyone can help me with my rx7 please comment back. I'm having issues ..after I installed my freshly rebuilt turbo(bigger turbo s4 13b Mico tech) when I put it in I had to move some pump up(pollution pump I think) and it jammed a hard line which I'm pretty sure is the omp line. I never realized it jammed this hard line. It ran great no problems lots of boost I took it on a 4hr drive the next day and on my 4hr drive home the thing started running very speratic it literally died as I pulled in the driveway home. So what I'm asking is did I mess it up by jamming the omp line and taking it for a long drive??? Any help would be greatly appreciated
Cody Neef Hi Cody, Does the line(or hose) you pinched have oil in it. The oil metering pump is under the lower radiator hose on the front cover ,just follow the lines up from there and see if it is any of the one's you pinched. So to start with pull the spark plugs out. Then take of the intake pipe from the throttle body. With the throttle blades open squirt some engine oil down the intake from a lever type oil can. Pull out your fuel pump fuse and disable the coil packs. Crank over by hand first and if it feels OK use the starter for a good 10-15 seconds. put some more oil in the intake and repeat. When winding the engine over you should hear 3 good pulses from each rotor housing. If you have a compression gauge give it a compression test. (if you don't have a rotary engine specific compression gauge)take the schrader valve out of a standard one and watch the needle movement. If it is even across all 3 pulses refit spark plugs ,replace fuel pump fuse and put some premix in it straight away. Now try to start the engine. This will let you know if you have done any damage. I hope it's all good mate. Let me know how you get on with it. Cheers Mark....
Mark Thomas Thanks for the reply. I ended up doing some research and figured out it was a omp rod that I jammed in the "up" position. which I was told actually adds more oil. I did a compression test and indeed the rear rotor had a weak pulse. too much drifting and racing oh well.
*Mazda does not recommend premixing because there is no advantage or reason to, this only damage your engine. There are no 2-strokes oils that meet Mazda's current specifications.* *Mazda says only oil that meets API SL/ EC GF3 is recommended.* *Never pre-mix engines equipped with metered oil injection and never use 2-stroke oil in 4-stroke engines like the Wankel unless specified by the manufacturer.*
If your rotary powered car has a catalytic converter pre mixing will greatly shorten its life. An RX8 has two catalytic converters and will cost 2200 for the cats.
subie skyline34 if i remember right there are only 2 oil injectors on the 1st gen, premixing was a must on the 04-06, 07 and up I don't think it's that necessary but I've done it anyway because it's a better way to lubricate the seals. If you've owned the car for awhile and have not been doing it I recommend a compression test, and I also hope you bought the car with an up to date compression test.
You have to be monumentally stupid to pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole... if you can't read the owners manual or the label on a bottle of motor oil you have no business working on any vehicle.
damn ive been using 8ounces to a full tank since i did the rebuilt on my rx8 with rotary aviation apex seals with all rew springs now i have 36xxx+ do u think it hurt anything....now i wanna tear it down and look(im getting to old for this sH!t LOL).....u killing me bro....
Rotors Magazine tanx for the quick reply but I am using super seals the black burnt looking ones and say super seal lol also now I know that they are making a corner seal of the same material and since I'm thinking of opening the engine I'm thinking of using them as well even thou they say rx8 corner seals are great do you recommend it,also do I try the gslse housings into the build and will it work....
Hey, I´d like to know how mutch should I expect to pay for a bridge ported 26b, also with modified spark plug holes to loose less compression. Thanks in advance.
There is no 2-stroke oil available that meets Mazda's minimum API rating.. Premixing isn't just a complete waste of money... It will damage a healthy engine.
