@@shadowbanned3044 it was the same thought with mistweaver and now everyone is suddenly talking about their utility being good. Preservation has plenty of tools to be successful including arguably the best two tank externals in time dilation and the upcoming renewing blaze hero talent for flameshaper. It all depends on your definition of “viable” which is super vague
I do not think so. The vast majority of players are doing M+ in PUGS. Pres is way weaker in that not coordinated groups. You need to have high hps, cause otherwise your range limit and need for combos will crush a pug @@iamvee87
@@Robsos2010 yeah, and we even have a human toggle form. I don't know why that can't just stay active all the time. Maybe give you a pair of temporary wings when you cast hover... Such an oversight
@@Squagem i enjoy pres gameplay, i cant stand looking at that cringe gay dragon in combat. If there was a glyph to stay in human form and just grow wings in combat i would love it!
Picking a healer is hard because the community pays sooo much attention to the Meta in keys they will never even see. Oh and Blizzard swinging the nerf hammer and totally nuke a spec is always concerning.
This was a incredibly informative and well put together video. It's a good glaring representation of Throughput being King even above theories of best comps. I told my guild Pres evoker was looking great 3 weeks ago and it will get its nerfs, but it will most likely just bring it into line. Metas shaping up to be like dragon flight season 1!
Starting to understand why blizzard will never be able to balance this mess. I cant speak for everyone, but man I'm getting tired of having to swap healers every season based on what's meta. "Just play what you enjoy" means nothing when I want to play high keys but can't because I'm not meta. Look at S4 of dragonflight, if you weren't a druid you didnt get to play. My priest did everything on 15s in the first few weeks, then didn't get a single invite to 16s despite having previous exp in 17-19s.
How screwed is Holy and Disc looking for M+? No battle res, lust, mediocre output, lack of mobility, poor CC (Psychic Scream), no interrupt. PI and Fort are good for sure, but Mass Dispel on a 2 min CD feels like it’s not worth the trade off of missing those other things. Starting to think I’ll have to play Pres Evoker or Resto Shaman next season.
Last weekend, I decided I wasn't going to main a priest that I would probably main a resto druid or a prevoker. Today I see 3 videos and your stream talking about pres and I'm not sure if its a good sign of which I should pick, or a bad omen of nerfs to come.
Played the first week of beta all the healers and immediately fell back onto pres after playing it in DF. I knew it was going to be good after playing it last out of all the healers. Just felt so much better being able to push up health bars and not struggle.
I think you're all asking the wrong question. the key thing we should be interested in is which healer will be best in healing tank spec that gonna be meta for a season.
I understand people not wanting to double down on classes but Evoker utility is nuts so double Evoker utility is more than worth it. 4 AoE CC's, 2 bleed removals, 2 decent dispels for Season 1, two Oppressing Roars etc.
Would love to see a pres guide from you in TWW! While I'm very confident on hpal/rsham/disc/mw, I feel kinda lost on pres due to the many interactions/combos of their kit.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 it’s basic healer kit. And that is the point though. Hpal and resto Druid utility is massively over stacked in comparison to mistweaver and priest.
@@Furcas I don't think it is basic healer kit, I think it's a special thing just like Shammy self-rez, priest Spirit of Redemption, or priest/evoker rescue. It makes sense for pally, as a heavily armored battlefield healer designed for war, to have combat rez, as it makes sense for DK... & Druid get to keep it because they had it first to begin with 🤷♂️ It doesn't make as much thematic sense for any of the other classes imo except maybe Prevoker I guess... but I don't think I'd give it to them either.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 at no point did anyone suggest that they should give every healer everything but combat Rez is so vital to large portions of content that it should be basic healer kit. This isn’t a question of themes it’s one of game balance.
Whats interesting is like... the bulk of folks playing could hit random select on their class, and do just fine in M+. As someone that does the highest key needed for vault, and that's about it, rarely does it affect my decision on what to play. Now, raid setting is a different story. So many times raid encounters dictate what specs/races you ideally need, and hell, that is usually its OWN set of annoying problems in the game :|
Following that logic, disc should have the highest DMG output, I mean they literally have to do DMG to heal. And I know a lot of people who disagree :D
Isnt that more a team problem then a pres evoker problem tho? I always tell people of they insist on standing in italy when im in France, then it's their own fault they die. It's called learn to play with your comp.
@@sebastiaankolbkkristensen6488 Doesn't mean that the hunters listen to you. It is also a detriment in raids. When you have to move out to cover a mechanic and you cant heal anyone
@@pc574 In that case I always say if the guy wants healing he will come and learn to play with a presevoker. If he doesn't come, well he die and that's on him
Hey what's going on Jak, it's guys. In your opinion, what change to priest's kit would it take to get the kind of representation that r.druid has seen over the years?
Personally as a prevoker main, I'd be happy to have average hps and normal range, but it feels like Blizz are very determined short range is our USP, and to make that work we kind of have to be the best healer for stacked conditions? Else why not pick a healer who doesn't force your group to think about their positioning? If you have to play around the healer, that healer better be good.
Idk if I would say Prev lacks utility. I also don’t think most of the Aug and Prev overlap is a problem especially with the nerf to stops and benefit of having two oppressive roars.
I'd be maining pres if they didn't have the range limit. I cannot in good faith raid heal with it, either, just because of how absolutely rigid positioning is in larger area fights.
I think from a balance perspective the more utility a healer brings the less HPS they should do. Same goes for kind of all roles in the game... that being said, classes that don't really bring that much should just have more they can bring lol come on blizz.
But that also does not work the class need to do enough hps to do content. And for other roles say dps we have proof over the seasons of utility not mattering if the dps is high enough Dps first then defensives and utility. It is only after the game is balanced for dps that utility even enters into discussion for dps players.
Idk my buddy is amped for pres. But as a RL and a guy who pugs keys as both heals and tank, pres has to be so good it's two tiers above the other healers or aug has to go the way of the dodo bird.
its worth noting that "Utility" means something very different for push keys vs for the key levels most of your viewers are doing! In my +10s and below I think of utility as "ways to solve problems the dungeon throws at me" so for me Shaman has the best utility in the game and Mistweaver is definitely up there in the top echelon, while Priest is on the bottom. But for high keys, utility seems to be more like "unique ways to improve your team's success chance that aren't healing or damage"? So priest is pretty great with mind soothe, MD, fort buff, and PI, while mistweaver is on the bottom with no relevant raid buff and no real unique thing to improve the run. RoP can be used as like the most ghetto skip method of all time in some cases (rip to the mists rop skip) but that's kinda it.
Being asked to play Hpal for raid. Choosing Rdruid as the second main, with priest being my alt. Can’t get the feel for pres evoker. Hope it’s not super meta cause good lord I can’t do that for key pushing lol
Followup to the question of "why does blizzard take so much time to balance"...Do you think if blizzard would be more aggressive with tuning the Meta wouldn't be as strict as it is these days? Sure the streamers will just pump in hours on end and have everything geared, but would there be such a high amount of people rerolling to the meta specs if those could get nerfed any reset? I think people would be more likely to stick to a main and try more stuff - especially with the higher costs of upgrading gear in TWW and the time it takes to do so.
Yea if there was more rapid tuning you’d see much better balance in general. Super op thing gets nerfed to an acceptable level and / or bad things get brought up to its level. Tank balance in general needs to be better too
@@AutomaticJak its not the same reasoning but this reminds me of how Legion doing so well on both class fantasy/rework selling and also artifact power being a permanent grind on your weapon that A L O T of people just had diehard main classes even when their class got nuked. idk where im going wiht this just thought it was cool
@@AutomaticJak in a much more serious message i just wish theyd stop balancing M+ seasons like its an ARPG where "oh no we cant nerf the super overpowered things cuz people have already grinded for them!" and its like, no, please, please do theres 35 other specs in the game people are wanting to also play...
I’ll still be playing a disc priest, but even then I’m kind of disappointed at the moment. I’ve played disc since late BFA, and sadly I’m really upset with the way discipline priest plays now. It’s gone through so many changes over the last year but it feels like being backed into a wall, rolled in a box and sealed up. I got on the beta with a lot of enthusiasm for the void themes, and it was just frustration after frustration. I really don’t like the way it plays even with the thematic addition. The way they’ve changed it is difficult and without mind bender CD tier, it’s just not as smooth flowing. I don’t know if the beta has some bugs or not, but something weird is happening with the spells. It just doesn’t feel right. Maybe I’m weird tho idk.
Really wish Blizzard would set a baseline level of utility for each role and give all specs for that role abilities that provide that utility and make sure none of the specs get too many extraneous forms of utility above other specs in a role. I get that homogenization is something to be concerned about, but I don't think baseline utility is the place to fear homogenization, personally. You can very easily make classes feel different through the rest of their kits.
@@Kantstop01 I play both, actually. And there are 100% things both games could learn from each other that would improve the games without sacrificing what makes each game great independently.
@@seluhir8820 You're right, they could learn from each other. However, I think FFxiv has a lot more to learn from WoW healing than the other way around. Healing in FF is super super basic and its what kept me from continuing my sub
I just hate the pingpong balancing that seems to happen and for some reason people seem to enjoy. People get so caught up in their class identity that they actively want other players to suffer if they've suffered before. Just look at everyone calling for aug to be nerfed into unplayability or straight up deleted from the game. Look at everyone calling for mages to be nerfed into oblivion. It's a terrible way to balance the game when you're just looking at patch notes and videos before a new season or expansion comes out to decide whether it's worth playing or not because your spec might not be one of the favoured ones. I main feral druid and we haven't been truly meta for over a decade and that doesn't look to change anytime soon and with boomkin/resto being kinda average too currently I barely have any motivation to play season 1 TWW at all. It'll just be like S3 Dragonflight where it takes too long to form groups or you just never get invited because you're not a FOTM reroller.
I kinda hate this kind of content but not because it is bad, because information is always good, but what people make off it can be awfull. Me not being accepted in a +10 because they were only accepting the meta healer that professional groups +30+ were using and telling me to reroll because i was not meta. I was like what?
it wont be for dungeons.. one reason. pres doesnt bring throughput buff to the group. It will be Druid or shaman. since healer dmg stinks in TWW. best thing a healer can proide is a buff to group that buffs dps
So this is just your way of saying Preservation is OP as a healer and will get brought on pure value...... that sounds like a bad place to be if blizzard..... notices.
Blizz balances the game around the 0.01%. After that ppl refuse you in low keys cuz they think your class is bad because it's not meta for world first. Fudge those guys. Nobody care about +30 keys.
Yeah, but it's not Blizz's fault, it's the players' fault for behaving that way. Even if there was only a 0.0001% difference, the players would still obsess over meta.
I haven't followed the conversation so maybe people are just that stupid but when you start the video off with "hey guys this overtuned spec might be meta if it stays overtuned" I'm just left wondering why that claim needed to be defended at all 😂. I guess it's a good excuse for a history lesson.
Unless your in the top 10% of players who cares about the 2% difference. Play a class you enjoy and you’ll play better. Always these stupid conversations about the “meta”
I think the spikey dmg profiles in DF were Blizz trying to address that, but really it's an intractible problem in M+. As long as it's a timed format & healers have buttons that do any damage at all, the players will insist that healers do damage.
Let’s get the least popular healer nerfed! Woooooooo Literally have been saying since the beginning double evoker is fine. Now it’s ok? I hate this community sometimes.
Preservation sucks ass for pugs so not even an option for me. Having a healer that needs their dps to have a brain to heal means it will be miserable to play in pugs
Depends on the level of keys you’re planning to do ig. If you intend on pushing the highest level of keys you can definitely play less pug friendly healers but fuck playing Pres anyways lol.
@@AutomaticJak Growl released a similar video I think. Disclaimer i havent watched yours yet but I think thats it. probably just joking though i rly doubt anyone thinks you and growl have beef haha
They just need to do a better job balancing these damn classes. Having one healer dominate to falling off a cliff in representation is pathetic. Just be way, way more proactive in balancing already. Don't wait an entire season. Poor balancing at the top roars downhill like a rushing river to the rest of the M+ community. Perception is everything.
I think meta matters in an indirect way to more casual M+ players. Everyone sees the Wowhead & Icy Veins lists & many people invite accordingly, even if it doesn't really matter at their level.
