The movie that almost killed a franchise. Set phasers to drunk and join me as I explore the notoriously troubled production behind the most infamous of Trek movies - The Final Frontier.
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dk if this is the place for this but could you do a vid on the movie "Ruthless People" please? my grandmother is old and its her favorite movie of all time and it would be a perfect sendoff.
One thing against Star Trek V the Final Frontier was it came out during the Summer of 89 which was so loaded with movies, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Batman, Karate Kid 3, Ghostbusters 2, UHF just to name a few. But yeah it's the weakest of the Original Star Trek movies. Luv your channel Drinker!
Kirks speech; "Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!" Brilliant, its shame we cannot have dialogue like this anymore!
At least there are moments of brilliance like that in the movie. I always interpreted Kirk's pain as the loss of his son and all the time he could never get back with him. And that follows through into the next movie as the reason why he hates Klingons so much. (another reason why Generations sucks so much, because Kirk's paradise would to have the life he missed)
“The rest of the cast started causing problems when they realized they’d been relegated to glorified extras.” Um… honestly, aside from Kirk, Spock and McCoy the rest of the cast were always glorified extras.
Yes, sad but true! That's one of the things that surprised and delighted me when TNG first came on the air. Picard was clearly the lead, but it was definitely far more of an ensemble series than TOS. But I can see how the supporting cast in The Final Frontier would have been disappointed compared to The Voyage Home, where every character was given something interesting to do.
@@deborahblackvideoediting8697 In Khan, Chekov gets a good amount of screen time as he's brainwashed, but poor Uhura just gets, "You are ordered to surrender your vessel, please respond." AND she gets blanked :0/
and the much maligned "spock's brain" is the episode in which every member of the main crew gets their 2 cents in. most episodes do focus on the big three with Scotty or Uhura sometimes getting more to do. we like the cast, but that's how they were written
The scene in the brig is pretty classic. Kirk: “I should knock you on your god damn ass!” Spock: “if you think that would help.” Bones: “Do you want me to hold him Jim?”
Other memorable quotes from "Star Trek V": "What does God need with a starship?"....."I liked him (Spock) better before he died", and "Row, Row Row your Boat........"
Futurama said it best: Nimoy: When I directed Star Trek IV, I got a magnificent performance out of Bill because I respected him so much. Shatner: And when I directed Star Trek V, I got a magnificent performance out of me, because I respected me so much!
@@0verkill161 Pro wrestlers call that "jobbing" -- allowing another guy (typically a newbie) to make a fool of you so that he can establish a reputation. Sadly, not even necessary in this case, as Stewart's work on TNG certainly stood on its own just fine.
@@0verkill161 The problem is that in that novel (and I use that word loosely), Kirk comes back and beats every TNG character at his own game including beating Worf in a bat'leth duel and out logic-ing Data. They were power fantasies. Shatner turned Kirk into a Mary Sue, which is ironic in that the original Mary Sue was a tongue in cheek fan-fic set on the original Enterprise.
The campfire scene is still the best part for me. "It's a song, ya green blooded-- the words aren't important, what matters is having a good time!" "- Are we having a....good time?" "Oh Christ Jim, I liked him better before he died!"
"I am well versed in the clasics, Doctor." "Then how come you don't know 'row row row your boat'? I think everyone in the room i was watching it laughed...because it was just perfect.
I don't think that's fair... Some of us find drug-addled lesbians throwing up, whilst swearing at Picard to be very much in the optimistic narrative of Star Trek.
At least there was interesting ideas behind this movie. Shatner didn't succeed, but at least he tried. Modern Trek is just dumb action that is slick and may look cool, but there are no ideas behind it. Just sound and thunder signifying nothing.
Dude, I LOVED that imperfect mess as a kid. The effects were obviously cheesy, but the ambition of the whole thing really made it endearing even if it clearly fell short.
Yeah, I didn't understand the extreme reactions either. It was still quite enjoyable Trek. Maybe I don't have that mind that expects things to get endlessly better or stay at top performance ever reached. I am also an Original Motion Picture enjoyer.
I have to admit my love for TMP and Final Frontier...warts and all. Who doesn't love Sybok and his disappearing mullet?😂 I'm being completely honest here!
Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies hit the constraint. Shatner failed .
@@electrictroy2010Indeed, you can't even really claim Paramount was being 'unfair' to Star Trek V by short-changing them on the production budget, by the numbers it actually ended up being 7-8 million dollars more expensive than Star Trek IV.
YES. YES. YES. Espicially seeing that EVEN after being offered to lose their pain Spock and McCoy are still loyal friends(brothers) to Kirk and eachother
The scene with McCoy euthanizing his father was the standout moment in the movie. DeForest's acting in that scene is amazing, and the real suckerpunch is when he delivers that line about the cure. 😭
Not going to lie... that was real brutal to watch... the most brutal, non-bloody thing I have seen in Hollywood... And yet, a simple scene on the surface... Brilliant acting...
@@JulianSirian "Oh my God, don't do this to me!" Yeah, that did indeed hit hard. Given the choice to revisit the most impactful moments in our lives, we'd never choose moments like deaths of loved ones, that's for sure.
“I couldn’t help but notice your pain…my pain?…yes, it runs deep share it with me” love that line, one of the best lines from Star Trek, even Tupac realized it’s greatness and he used it at the beginning of Pain.
Despite its legitimately criticised flaws, I always felt that STV had a great deal of heart that elevated it above the sum of its mediocre parts. Even though the supporting cast are underutilised, what we see of them is wonderfully handled, and the dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy is absolutely spot on (in my opinion). And having a chance to see these beloved characters spending time together in their time off was just a joy.
For every moment like this, there were too many moments that brought me back to despair. A photon torpedo doesn't kill Fake God, but a Bird of Prey phaser (sounding like a TIE Fighter cannon) does??????
There are scenes like that and his reaction to David's death in Search for Spock that prove that Shatner is a genuinely good actor. This whole revisionist idea that he was never a good actor are complete bs.
@@fattiger6957 The thing about Shatner is that he is a talented actor yet primarily, he is a well-trained Theatrical Actor. I've worked in Theatre before and I guarantee you, exaggerated movements and projected vocals are required to reach the audience at the back of the Theatre. When it comes to anything filmed however, the exaggeration is not needed as much since people can catch onto the subtle expressions, especially if the camera is brought up close to the actor(s). A lot of people point out Shatner's apparent overacting throughout his career and it's mainly due to his theatrical experiences. Still, Shatner is still a talent to behold.
When he's doing a small-scale scene, like talking to McCoy in his quarters, he loses the theatrical manner, and you can see him "being" Kirk instead of "playing" Kirk.
I've said it before: STAR TREK V is great if you accept that it is... _literally_ ...an episode of the 1960's TV show given a movie production budget. That's all. God-like being, focus on The Big Three, odd-hued sky of an alien world, down on the planet fist-fights, etc. It's William Shatner's love-letter to TOS.
In a way, it is. Besides the allegory of the preacher being horrified of the dark nature of his " God", it's a nice irony. In a sense, Sybok have good intentions, just the "creature" was evil and manipulative. And he ended sacrificing for the heroes. So, it's not bad at all.
I still love the speech Kirk gives about "needing his pain" something that many of us forget. Our pain and suffering is what tempered us into the beings we are today. Those of us that use that pain rather than falling to it become even stronger because of it.
As rough as it was, the character interaction between Bones, Spock, and Kirk was outstanding, and made me realize that is one of the best things about classic ST.
And that's what's missing from JJ Trek. When "Kirk" died, I felt nothing. Now, when I was a little boy and watched The Wrath of Khan, I was sad and misty-eyed when Spock died saving the Enterprise and all those aboard. I've heard that there wasn't a dry eye in the theater.
Who knew that the Star Trek franchise itself would end up being the one wearing the Red Shirt, and burning up in orbit like the Enterprise in Star Trek 3? 🤔
Say what you will, this is a movie I enjoyed a lot with my favorite quote. "I don't want my pain taken away, I need my pain!" Even as a child, I understood the message of that scene and it stuck with me.
It was a political allegory about the fall of the Eastern Bloc and the two sides trying to come together, with opposition from elements of both sides. It played out just as our real history played out.
@@Lodogg And a pretty good send off for Kirk himself. Until they ruined it a couple years later with Generations and killed his character off in the dumbest way possible.
I love ST-V ... for me it was never about spectacular special effects, it was about heart and chemistry between the characters ... and Final Frontier has a ton of that.
I would love to see a directors cut of this with CG effects. It's one of the greatest Star Trek stories and was a joy to watch. It needs love and then a fresh look.
CGI might help sell the God portion near the end, but I doubt it. The pacing is off. (There’s also a fundamental flaw: The center of the galaxy is a black hole. No starship can go there.) Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .
There is one thing about the last decade that I find positive. It’s taught me that a lot of “bad” movies I watched growing up, could’ve been a hell of a lot worse lol.
Even in something terrible like Howard The Duck, you could see plentiful evidence that the people involved tried their best. Even Tank Girl had real effort and care, and that movie didn't have an ending, it just became a cartoon short with awful Hole music. But neither of those flawed films treated their audience with contempt. We didn't hear any self-righteous speeches about male inferiority from Lori Petty, Naomi Watts or Lea Thompson. (Funny thing; their stars never "fell", either. Watts only continued to rise. Amazing what happens when you appreciate your successes and endure your failures with aplomb.) Every single one of these mega-turkeys that craps out in the past decade, the makers blame the audience instead of themselves. They find or fabricate some angry fans to "justify" their failure and pretend the deck was somehow stacked against them. If anyone blames them, they condescend in response and say "it was a job, you need a reality check". Film people of yesteryear had real character and love for what they did. Film people of today only care about maintaining their safe place in The Bubble. They earn nothing, and then whine that the audience didn't give them a fair shake. Beyond pathetic.
That's because in the past people cared about telling a story. Even if they failed hey at least they hit the effort button. Now too many movies and series are about preaching the message as the drinker calls it. Storytelling isn't even an afterthought.
Man, we need more filmmakers like Joel Schumacher (RIP) He knew when he fucked up Batman and Robin and apologised for it. But then again, Twitter wasn't invented then, so who knows how it would've gone down...
Unpopular opinion: The movie is IMMENSELY quotable, and Shatner directed it rather well (at least the shooting side of it). McCoy's scene with his father is one of the most gripping parts I've ever seen in a Trek story. Inarguable opinion: Jerry Goldsmith's Trek scores are classics. 8:11 You forgot to mention all the movie's need to outjoke Trek IV.
Thanks! I was at a Star Trek convention, just before 5, with James Doohan as the special guest. I remember some Paramount guy speaking about 5, and yeah, I remember him mentioning about more comedy. Also, I mean, there was the paradise planet episode in the old series, so maybe 5’s plot was plausible? You could also contrast Star Trek 5 with Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, though Vol. 2 probably had more budget. Yeah, 5 is pretty bad, but still watchable, I guess. We then got The Undiscovered Country, which was great!
Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies hit the constraint. Shatner failed .
The "What does God need with a starship" is a great line, but not enough credit to what follows afterward which is just awesome: "Jim! you don't ask the almighty for his ID!"
The sad thing is that this movie contains, what I consider, one of the best scenes in the entire original cast film franchise. That scene is the one around the campfire. There is no action. No explosions. It's just three friends chatting around the fire. It's simple but it f$#king works!
Drinker! I am a second generation Star Trek fan. I saw this film in theaters when I was like 12 or 13! I must say, I knew nearly 99% of the facts that you put in your video. Great breakdown of Star Trek V! There were some wonderful scenes and character moments no doubt! It had such great potential, but just could not put it all together! Sad. P.S. This is my fourth drink of the night!! I dedicate it you Drinker! Carry on!
I said it elsewhere and I say it again: I can't be too hard on Star Trek V. It is certainly flawed (much of these flaws can be attributed to its troubled production) but it still has a lot going for it. Out of the first six movies, its probably the only one I don't love but I still _like_ it. It has heart. It at least *tries* to give the Fans that Vulcan Salute. In stark contrast, I feel like most "Trek" I've seen since 2017 was just constantly giving me the finger...
Valid point… everything post-2015 is not true to Roddenberry’s vision. It’s an insult. FF5 is my least favorite classic/tng movie but at least it sticks to the Roddenberry vision (exploring new ideas)
Roddenberry's vision was being challenged by mid-TNG, and all the better (if you're a fan of DS9, you already like post-Roddenberry Trek). The difference though is that these at least still feel like they are the "child" of Roddenberry's vision, taking the good parts while leaving bad (like his no interpersonal conflict rule). That said, the 2009 movie feels like it has greater influence from Star Wars, and the Disco-era shows make me wonder sometimes if the writers and producers even like Classic Trek.
Honestly the idea of a Sci-Fi film where the characters are literally looking for God is an interesting idea in theory. The problem is you need a lot and I mean a LOT of thought into the story in order to properly stick the landing.
@@Dash-lx4ng a faithful adaptation of C. S. Lewis's Space Trilogy would be fun though, though the science in the novels was a little light and the planets deliberately not an exact match to how they really are.
Well, Roddenberry's idea was a retread of a script he'd been trying to sell Paramount on since "The Motion Picture"... some sort of time-travel story where they go back to Dealy Plaza in 1963 and manage to stop the Kennedy assassination, but it puts the universe into a tailspin so they have to "undo" what they did because if Kennedy lived it would have changed all of history. Basically a film treatment of "City on the Edge of Forever" (which was Harlan Ellison's script, so basically a retread of his work). Paramount never would go for it despite Gene Roddenberry pushing for it several times. Guess they figured it would cost too much to produce, the script would be problematic, and the ending would be unsatisfying to the moviegoers... SO they decided to go with Shatner's "The Enterprise gets hijacked by a televangelist who manages to brainwash the entire crew to go look for God in the center of the galaxy"... GO FIGURE!!! OL J R :)
Can't rember the name if it but I read a short story once about the crew of a colony ship returning to earth after the planet they were meant to settle was uninhabitable and finding the Christian Rapture happened well they were gone leaving earth empty. one of the crew members goes mad because he missed his chance to go to heaven and tries to kill the other crew members so they can see God and tell him to come back and get them. It was intresting if nothing else
Shatner's idea isn't bad. Star trek has explored some aspects of Religion and God like entities like Q. I think it needed to be fit more into Trek but it's unique and ambitious.
IMO Deep Space Nine nailed the subject perfectly, particularly with the conundrum over the Prophets (or "wormhole aliens"). Atheist says "super powerful, non-corporeal alien that appears to exist outside time" Theist says "God"
@@koppsr Really more unitarian considering the false "God" entity portrayed himself as "one voice, many faces" and all the represented races present had their own perceptions of what the planet was. Kinda like when Kosh revealed his true self at the end of Babylon 5 season 3, and each race present saw him as the specific image the Vorlons had seeded into that race's religious culture.
Completely agree. Like The Drinker says, there are a lot of good things to be found in the film, it just doesn't gel together as a whole. Beyond that, I found the Sybok character intriguing and the overall story had promise. The problem is that a movie like this, especially a Star Trek movie, had to go big or just stop. Compromised Trek due to budget constraints and poor effects is just more disappointing for what could have been. You can see the same results by watching various episodes from Season 3 of the TOS.
I'm 38 years old and this movie was my first Star Trek experience, watching it at my Uncle's caravan at Bulli Beach caravan park with my Nanna and others back in 1992. It made me fall in love with the series and is to this day my favourite Star Trek movie ever. God bless you all. (He doesn't need a starship)
ST V needs more love. It’s like going to Shatner’s place for dinner. And he’s cooking in the kitchen. But he’s had too much vino and burnt the chicken as he sings through his version of Common People. It tastes horrible, but I’d tell anecdotes about it years later
The book written by Shatner's daughter was very interesting, documenting the making of Trek 5. It was not good there were so many unforeseen production issues especially on the hangar deck set. Although the movie is very flawed it is fun, and there is that awesome scene with the big three, sharing their pain, what an outstanding scene McCoy gets.
Yeah Shatner's books "Star Trek Memories" about the original TV show and his life afterwards, and the follow-on "Star Trek Movie Memories" details the production issues and themes of all the original cast movies... including ST5 and all the problems he had with it. OL J R: )
Oddly enough, George Takei, who was no fan of Bill Shatner, had this to say about acting under his direction: "...despite our sometimes strained personal history, I found working with Bill [Shatner] as a director to be surprisingly pleasant."
I heard that Shatner had gotten the initial idea for ST V from Harlan Ellison who had pitched a Trek story about how the Enterprise "goes off and finds God". Supposedly, Shatner even approached Ellison to expand his story idea but Ellison essentially wanted to turn it into the "Ten Commandments in space" in terms of scale and budget.
This was actually the first movie I ever saw in the theaters, at five years old. It's funny, because it's really not a good Trek movie at all, but it got me hooked for life, so it'll always hold a special place for me.
It's really not a bad movie at all, either. The important thing is that it is easily as entertaining as most of the others. And it has a couple of Trek's greatest moments.
Yeah, me too. There are movies and series I saw as a kid that I know now aren't very good, but I'm willing to forgive them for a lot of mistakes. Nostalgia is a hellva' drug.
Oh my god, right?! I read the first book almost on a lark, and finished it in like a day. I was like, "Damn, that was surprisingly good!" Had to wait a couple of months on the second one to come out, so I reread TekWar five or six times, just to keep it fresh for the next one.
Bits and pieces of this one stick with me. The one big resentment I remember carrying out was the "I know this ship like the back of my hand" bit. It's okay as a silly, throwaway joke- but Scotty knocks himself unconscious, and that's how the fanatic's people end up capturing him. Whoever thought it was okay to use that bit for carrying forward even a small piece of plot should have been keelhauled.
"None of these grand ideas really gel into a satisfying whole." Sounds like a review of my marriage Drinker. I'm with you on this one. I only watched it once when it made it to cable.
There's a lot of great scenes in 5 (Bones re-living his fathers death, Spock trying to understand camping). It's light years better than the crap Hollywood churns out today.
I've heard that they originally wanted Sean Connery as Spock's brother. Could you imagine him and Shatner doing scenes? As the Klingons might say, it would have been glorious!
Star Trek V was among the handful of movies we owned on VHS when I was growing up. I watched it many times over. The opening scene with the soundtrack was always very pleasant to me. The camping scene highlighted the cost of a life of service toward something greater to one’s own life. I really appreciated that. DeForest Kelley absolutely knocked that whole sequence of reliving his deepest pain out of the f’ing park!!
@@matthewmuir8884 Although it could also refer to his first 'death' in Generations, where Kirk is swallowed by The Nexus and endures a sort of living death alone within it for 78 years.
The campfire scene was brilliant, possibly my favorite in any Star Trek movie. In my head Spock is well aware that "Row Your Boat" is a metaphor but just enjoys fucking with McCoy
Kirk "I Don't want my pain taken away. I need my Pain!" For my money no other line in Trek encapsulates a character better. I've always thought Trek V was underrated.
I think a few prominent Trekkies are outspoken about it being supposedly so bad and a lot of sheep b-a-a-a along. Yeah, it has cringe elements, but, it also has some brilliant moments, too.
Legend tells that Shatner came up with the idea of a great plot, but it was so incredible that he decided to keep it a secret and develop it all by himself... .... and then Tekwar came to life.
I read the book that Shatner's daughter wrote about the struggles her father was up against making this movie. I feel sorry for him and he should be commended for achieving what he did. His heart was really in it.
Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .
Here I am again, being the lone Star Trek fan who LOVES this movie. There are so many deep and brilliant quotes in this film, that people hate it is beyond me. I LOVE this one. I find the whale one enjoyable, but not as good as this one. Of course 2 is the bestn period.
You're not alone. I also enjoy this movie. Everyone goes on about the religious overtones - perhaps I misunderstood, because I thought it was in line with other Star Trek media (something seems God like but is proven to be an advanced, powerful alien which is then defeated). Certainly TNG had storylines along the same lines.
@@izzieb Yes quite true... I think it's the poorly done "neon cartoon special effects" and the muddled story with too many religious overtones that really turns people off this one. But like you said, it's not anything they haven't done in different ways before and since... Even TMP was based on an original script called "The God Thing"... Later! OL J R :)
No way. I love it too. I left a similar comment on another video a few weeks ago, that I felt like the only person who loves it, and a lot of people replied saying they liked ST5 too.
@@cobracommander8133 Thanks. our little 14 thumbs up show we are in an exclusive group. Don't care, I LOVE it and it's as simple as that. That you all are on board, the more the merrier!
Powerful ideas. The opening minutes with a laughing vulcan is striking. Challenging the very abject humanism that the franchise is built on. Shaking the foundations of trek. Embracing emotion and religion as alternative and valid modes of thought and experience. Sadly, the half baked script never quite lives up to the potential of the premise. At least the character moments with kirk, spock and mccoy are great even if the rest of it falls flat. I would love to see a renewed take on these ideas, but I have even less faith in modern trek to pull it off.
Try NO faith... Bad Reboot (Jar Jar Trek) is TOTALLY incapable of even REtelling the original stories in a decent way. They'd TOTALLY screw the pooch trying to redo ST V... OL J R :)
Hope, Redemption and the Pursuit of Objective Truth are Powerful messages that have been relevant in the best of stories Popular Culture has told. The Matrix is a cyberpunk parable where all have fallen asleep to an enslaving computer system yet some rebels are able to wake up and alert others of the Truth. In recent memory, Violet Evergarden is a story about the titular character's redemption in learning how to empathise with others. Of course, their are countless stories like Lord of the Rings or Narnia which deal with Good overcoming Evil. Humanist entertainment can show traces of these ideas since they hold most of the same values but the ultimate lack of a foundational moral code and the absence of long term hope has often resulted in humanists creating nihilistic pieces of work, whether intentional of not. With that said, even some humanists recognise the values of a Religiously motivated lifestyle. The Director of the film 'The Book of Eli' isn't even a Christian yet he thought that a story of Denzel Washington traversing post apocalyptic Earth with the last copy of the Holy Bible made for a great premise.
@@ScotsThinker I meant "NO FAITH" in Hollyweird today being able to redo ST 5 and producing anything but the same sort of utter rubbish they crank out today... Not "no faith" as in atheistic... OL J R :)
The cast did an excellent job. McCoy was at his game, as usual. Lawrence Luckinbill (sp?) was a phenomenal Sybok. I'd have followed that guy to the corners of the universe. The worst about the film were the terrible FX, but I can look those over to see the heart of what the story was trying to tell.
@@ScotsThinker The Book of Eli was an awesome film. It should be the gold standard for religious productions, along with Ben-Hur. Instead of all that garbage with Kevin Sorbo they keep on making.
Though I know a lot of people don't care for this outing for the Enterprise crew I think the scene in the observation lounge is incredibly deep and a gem. In that one scene we get to see and experience the various kinds of pain through the eyes and experiences of the characters. McCoy at having to let his father die - Pain of conscious Spock - Pain of not feeling he met and could not meet expectations Kirk - Pain of life experiences and of having to make command decisions McCoys father - Physical pain and helplessness Sybok - The pain of not being able to save everyone and remove their pain However in the confrontation of their pain they accept it existence and move beyond it. Accepting, to one degree or another, that it is essential to who they were and who they are.
My favorite line in almost all of Star Trek is when Kirk rejects having his pain taken away. That you carry it with you, it can drive and shape you, make you who you are. You need your struggles and pain to guide you as much as your joy and victories. He knows its helped make him who he is, its going through those struggles that help him face new ones. Its a message I've held to heart for many years since I first saw it.
As a kid I loved ST:V, "What does God need with a starship?" 😆 It didn't realize how bad it was until I was older. But still, it was a part of my childhood, and even though it's aged like alka-seltzer in warm milk, I can't hate it.
Funny how everyone blames Shatner as Director but it comes down to the studio pushing the time up and not giving any budget to make the film. the writing is some of the best in the franchise. McCoy and his father, the camp fire scene. Yes it could have used a few more rewrites for the rest.
That scene with Bones and his dad is a solid gut-punch. I remember seeing it in the theater and just having all the air sucked out of me when Kelley delivered the "They found a cure" line. For all the shit people have talked about TFF, that was one of the most impactful scenes in the entire franchise.
The ones who blamed Shatner for this WANTED to blame him. Their guns were loaded. Ol' Bill has been weathering ridicule and scorn for probably his entire career, not to mention the loss of a wife by drowning, and yet the guy is almost always genial and appealing. Maybe Chris Pine will be like that in his 80's, it's not impossible. Maybe Karl Urban as an old man could have a devastating moment like McCoy does with his father in TFF. (A scene which, by the way, I completely blocked out from the last time I saw it decades ago, holy god, even if you haven't lost your dad it's brutal.) I give Karl a lifetime pass for the best portrayal of Judge Dredd ever. Seriously though, how great was DREDD? I might go watch it again now. I've seen it a dozen times. THAT'S what happens when you treat a franchise and its fans with respect. Sorry to go off-topic.
For all the Blame it on the low budget guys: ~33million 1988 dollars is not a small budget! Aliens three years earlier had about two thirds of that... It would be interesting what Shatner took home for this movie.
The scene with Spock and McCoy looking at their pasts was the best part of that movie, along with Kirk's, "I don't want my pain taken away, I NEED my pain!" moment. The rest, with the exception of a few other moments, was impossible to swallow.
I watched it recently and enjoyed it! Yeah the effects are a bit shoddy, but the story is fun and the characters work very well together. Plus, its Jerry Goldsmith score is gorgeous! I think V is quite an underrated movie.
You know watching your Production Hell series really makes me appreciate the good and great movies that came from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. It just seems like that was a really tough time for movie making.
Budgets on special effects were limited. Everything had to be built by hand, which is both materials & labor intensive. Today effects are made with a computer. It’s easy in comparison Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited for making effects. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .
I had no idea about the production issues with this one. Thanks for the entertaining 10 mins as ever. I have to say though, even though this is far from the greatest Trek movie ever made. I've always kind of enjoyed this one. Having now heard the original intentions, I agree with you that it's a shame that we never saw it as it was intended to be made. Studios hey....
I actually liked it. Especially the moments where it fleshes out characters in a way we haven't seen before. Also as much as "secret lost sibling" premise is silly, I really like the prophetic villain.
And if anyone was going to have a secret lost sibling, it was going to be Spock. He's not the type to say anything not directly relevant to the conversation or the situation at hand
@@smiffy24601 That aspect of it was pretty believable. I can absolutely see Spock not bringing that up in conversation with Kirk at any point, despite the two of them being best friends. That kind of friendship doesn't work the same way as it would between two (full-blooded) humans.
@@ReticentDuet In a good _Trek_ we could have had Sybok and Michael interact. There are some definite possibilities; Sybok's an interesting character to explore. But Kurtzman.
Funnily enough I actually watched trek 5 the other day. I was going to make a comment on how even *it* is better than what we've been getting recently, and I figured I should at least grit my teeth and rewatch it to make sure I wasn't completely mistaken. As it turns out I was actually pleasantly surprised, it definitely wasn't as bad as I remembered it. Or, as I would have preferred at the time, "didn't remember it". I'm still not sure if this is some kind of hindsight comparison to the modern fare, or if I just let my initial reaction dictate too much of what I thought of it. But I am totally comfortable saying now that for the longest time I really probably haven't been giving The Final Frontier enough credit.
This movie was so... different than the other TOS films. The beginning parts had an almost Star Wars aesthetic with the "discount Mos Eisley" bar on the desert planet Nimbus III. Whereas, Star Trek 6 felt like it belonged alongside 2, 3, and 4 stylistically.
I was able to buy and read the novel about a week before the movie's release. To say there were great character moments would be a huge understatement. Each main character had a "Sybok" moment. This would have been a tremendous film if give a few more rewrites, a larger budget and faith from Paramount. I'm also pretty sure that there was a writer's strike was happening during the writing of TFF. If the movie could have been given a fall release rather than a very overcrowded summer release it may have faired better. Sadly, we will never get the movie we deserved, or the one Shatner wanted to give us.
@@saftpackerl That's what I don't understand; this movie had a bigger budget than all the others except for the first one. The only thing I can figure is rushed production, a lack of talent in the FX department, and interference from the studio. Of course, if it had all gone the way Shatner had wanted, that still doesn't mean it would have resulted in a great film. Still, though not as good as the others, it's still at least in the same overall ballpark. I enjoyed it.
@@saftpackerl I see your comparison but Aliens had more in camera effects(models & miniatures) where with Trek it has/needed more special effects. Ships, space & etc. It was unfortunate we didn’t get to see it fully realized because there is a lot to explore, but it had so many other outside factors dragging it down. Still it has some of the best interactions between the three main leads.
"ST VI: The Undiscovered Country" is absolutely beautiful... From Praxis to the end credits, it is just perfect. Mr Drinker should recommend it to those poor young souls who have only known STD, as far as trekking the stars is concerned...
“Go boldly where…” is at the core of Star Trek. And this movie, despite its production, shortcomings fulfills that goal. It’s about discovery, not solely about good guys vs bad guys.
Its one of my favourite star trek films, the poorest star trek film was 3 for me for effects and 1 for film, number five was a big adventure - all of them are very enjoyable.
@@thatguyfromcetialphaV Yeah this empty-headed shock-jock bad retread CRAP that just sh!ts all over the original is just an insult to what Star Trek was and is all about. Maybe after it all crashes and burns and sits on a shelf somewhere for a decade someone will come along that actually knows how to make Star Trek and TELL GOOD STORIES!!! OL J R :)
The premise for ST5 was actually intriguing, a completely opposite counterpoint to the logical Vulcan way. It was certainly worth exploring and this film had some good moments, but the lack of payoff in the absolutely atrocious ending is what ended up (mostly justifiably) defining the film and perception of the entire work. It was a great setup that spectacularly crashed and burned short of the finish line.
Hmm. I never saw it that way. He's pretending to be God, that's obvious and not doing a great job afterall, for the real God requires nothing. The evidence that we live in a purpose built Universe made with intelligence is also obvious for anyone willing to see it.
@@JamesRDavenport Hey thanks for the thoughtful comment. I think we generally agree with eachother. Plato's "Euthyphro" is a book where Socrates makes a compelling argument against piety and the Gods of his time. Generally, Socrates puts forth that everything calling themselves a God is infact subordinate to something higher than themselves which is the actual "God" (I use quotations there because i'm unsure of a word that is something beyond that of a God as I understand it in language)
@@GQBouncer Euthyphro is an interesting book, but the famous Euthyphro dilemma isn't as powerful as it's often made out to be. Classical Theism (the conception of God historically dominant in Christianity for pretty much all of its existence) have a view of God that's not susceptible to it, holding that morality is neither arbitrary divine fiat nor based on a standard independent of God (which would make God not God, but merely "a god" like Thor or Odin, who even if they existed would merely be big, powerful people and absolutely nothing like the true God). You can see a more detailed explanation here: edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/10/god-obligation-and-euthyphro-dilemma.html
Final Frontier is the one movie that had the feel of a classic TOS episode. Shitty effects, off the rack costumes, and an energy being that is defeated by a Shatner speech. The cave scene is one of the best scenes in any Trek film too.
"an energy being defeated by a Shatner speech' LOLZ, I never even considered that. How many energy beings did he defeat that way - I lost count. I totally agree it is the closest to TOS. Its actually my fourth favorite of the series after Wrath, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact. Hi rating for rewatchability - you can drop right in anywhere. And Sybok is a great villian.
When you talk about these production issues, I'm immediately brought back into the hell of making 8-12 minute short films around L.A. Everything that could possibly go wrong generally went wrong. And it usually involved someone trying to get literally thousands of dollars from me for nothing.
After watching this, my animosity toward _The Final Frontier_ has lessened. It's still a train wreck, but there was some quality coal aboard that wonky locomotive. I can't be too mad at it. We still got a great send-off for the original crew in _The Undiscovered Country._ We got 5 out of 6 okay-to-great movies (TMP needed a stronger hand in the editing room, but wasn't bad otherwise) -- how many franchises with that many movies can claim the same?
And yet the chemistry between the original characters is so awesome in some of the scenes that it was this movie that got me into Star Trek in the first place.
@@buetiniedermeier I don't know, First Contact was pretty awesome. And, like Final Frontier, I'm one of the few that liked Nemesis. You can keep Insurrection, though; worst film of the franchise, IMHO, and the only reason to watch Generations is for the TOS cast, definitely not the cringey send-off they gave Kirk.
It's still a good Saturday morning hangover movie. You have to give the editors kudos for putting this together. I still think the first one in the series so totally underrated. It gets better each time you watch it.
