The movie that almost killed a franchise. Set phasers to drunk and join me as I explore the notoriously troubled production behind the most infamous of Trek movies - The Final Frontier.
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dk if this is the place for this but could you do a vid on the movie "Ruthless People" please? my grandmother is old and its her favorite movie of all time and it would be a perfect sendoff.
One thing against Star Trek V the Final Frontier was it came out during the Summer of 89 which was so loaded with movies, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Batman, Karate Kid 3, Ghostbusters 2, UHF just to name a few. But yeah it's the weakest of the Original Star Trek movies. Luv your channel Drinker!
I don't think that's fair... Some of us find drug-addled lesbians throwing up, whilst swearing at Picard to be very much in the optimistic narrative of Star Trek.
“The rest of the cast started causing problems when they realized they’d been relegated to glorified extras.” Um… honestly, aside from Kirk, Spock and McCoy the rest of the cast were always glorified extras.
Yes, sad but true! That's one of the things that surprised and delighted me when TNG first came on the air. Picard was clearly the lead, but it was definitely far more of an ensemble series than TOS. But I can see how the supporting cast in The Final Frontier would have been disappointed compared to The Voyage Home, where every character was given something interesting to do.
@@deborahblackvideoediting8697 In Khan, Chekov gets a good amount of screen time as he's brainwashed, but poor Uhura just gets, "You are ordered to surrender your vessel, please respond." AND she gets blanked :0/
and the much maligned "spock's brain" is the episode in which every member of the main crew gets their 2 cents in. most episodes do focus on the big three with Scotty or Uhura sometimes getting more to do. we like the cast, but that's how they were written
The campfire scene is still the best part for me. "It's a song, ya green blooded-- the words aren't important, what matters is having a good time!" "- Are we having a....good time?" "Oh Christ Jim, I liked him better before he died!"
At least there was interesting ideas behind this movie. Shatner didn't succeed, but at least he tried. Modern Trek is just dumb action that is slick and may look cool, but there are no ideas behind it. Just sound and thunder signifying nothing.
I've said it before: STAR TREK V is great if you accept that it is... _literally_ ...an episode of the 1960's TV show given a movie production budget. That's all. God-like being, focus on The Big Three, odd-hued sky of an alien world, down on the planet fist-fights, etc. It's William Shatner's love-letter to TOS.
In a way, it is. Besides the allegory of the preacher being horrified of the dark nature of his " God", it's a nice irony. In a sense, Sybok have good intentions, just the "creature" was evil and manipulative. And he ended sacrificing for the heroes. So, it's not bad at all.
Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies hit the constraint. Shatner failed .
@@electrictroy2010Indeed, you can't even really claim Paramount was being 'unfair' to Star Trek V by short-changing them on the production budget, by the numbers it actually ended up being 7-8 million dollars more expensive than Star Trek IV.
“I couldn’t help but notice your pain…my pain?…yes, it runs deep share it with me” love that line, one of the best lines from Star Trek, even Tupac realized it’s greatness and he used it at the beginning of Pain.
The scene with McCoy euthanizing his father was the standout moment in the movie. DeForest's acting in that scene is amazing, and the real suckerpunch is when he delivers that line about the cure. 😭
Not going to lie... that was real brutal to watch... the most brutal, non-bloody thing I have seen in Hollywood... And yet, a simple scene on the surface... Brilliant acting...
@@JulianSirian "Oh my God, don't do this to me!" Yeah, that did indeed hit hard. Given the choice to revisit the most impactful moments in our lives, we'd never choose moments like deaths of loved ones, that's for sure.
This movie was a bunch of scenes that while some what good on their own don't really go together at all. The main plot of Finding god is the weakest part of the whole movie.
It was a political allegory about the fall of the Eastern Bloc and the two sides trying to come together, with opposition from elements of both sides. It played out just as our real history played out.
@Lodogg 3323 And a pretty good send off for Kirk himself. Until they ruined it a couple years later with Generations and killed his character off in the dumbest way possible.
"I am well versed in the clasics, Doctor." "Then how come you don't know 'row row row your boat'? I think everyone in the room i was watching it laughed...because it was just perfect.
Despite its legitimately criticised flaws, I always felt that STV had a great deal of heart that elevated it above the sum of its mediocre parts. Even though the supporting cast are underutilised, what we see of them is wonderfully handled, and the dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy is absolutely spot on (in my opinion). And having a chance to see these beloved characters spending time together in their time off was just a joy.
Who knew that the Star Trek franchise itself would end up being the one wearing the Red Shirt, and burning up in orbit like the Enterprise in Star Trek 3? 🤔
There are scenes like that and his reaction to David's death in Search for Spock that prove that Shatner is a genuinely good actor. This whole revisionist idea that he was never a good actor are complete bs.
@@fattiger6957 The thing about Shatner is that he is a talented actor yet primarily, he is a well-trained Theatrical Actor. I've worked in Theatre before and I guarantee you, exaggerated movements and projected vocals are required to reach the audience at the back of the Theatre. When it comes to anything filmed however, the exaggeration is not needed as much since people can catch onto the subtle expressions, especially if the camera is brought up close to the actor(s). A lot of people point out Shatner's apparent overacting throughout his career and it's mainly due to his theatrical experiences. Still, Shatner is still a talent to behold.
When he's doing a small-scale scene, like talking to McCoy in his quarters, he loses the theatrical manner, and you can see him "being" Kirk instead of "playing" Kirk.
As rough as it was, the character interaction between Bones, Spock, and Kirk was outstanding, and made me realize that is one of the best things about classic ST.
And that's what's missing from JJ Trek. When "Kirk" died, I felt nothing. Now, when I was a little boy and watched The Wrath of Khan, I was sad and misty-eyed when Spock died saving the Enterprise and all those aboard. I've heard that there wasn't a dry eye in the theater.
I still love the speech Kirk gives about "needing his pain" something that many of us forget. Our pain and suffering is what tempered us into the beings we are today. Those of us that use that pain rather than falling to it become even stronger because of it.
I'm 38 years old and this movie was my first Star Trek experience, watching it at my Uncle's caravan at Bulli Beach caravan park with my Nanna and others back in 1992. It made me fall in love with the series and is to this day my favourite Star Trek movie ever. God bless you all. (He doesn't need a starship)
Kirks speech; "Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!" Brilliant, its shame we cannot have dialogue like this anymore!
At least there are moments of brilliance like that in the movie. I always interpreted Kirk's pain as the loss of his son and all the time he could never get back with him. And that follows through into the next movie as the reason why he hates Klingons so much. (another reason why Generations sucks so much, because Kirk's paradise would to have the life he missed)
For every moment like this, there were too many moments that brought me back to despair. A photon torpedo doesn't kill Fake God, but a Bird of Prey phaser (sounding like a TIE Fighter cannon) does??????
I love ST-V ... for me it was never about spectacular special effects, it was about heart and chemistry between the characters ... and Final Frontier has a ton of that.
Say what you will, this is a movie I enjoyed a lot with my favorite quote. "I don't want my pain taken away, I need my pain!" Even as a child, I understood the message of that scene and it stuck with me.
The sad thing is that this movie contains, what I consider, one of the best scenes in the entire original cast film franchise. That scene is the one around the campfire. There is no action. No explosions. It's just three friends chatting around the fire. It's simple but it f$#king works!
There is one thing about the last decade that I find positive. It’s taught me that a lot of “bad” movies I watched growing up, could’ve been a hell of a lot worse lol.
Even in something terrible like Howard The Duck, you could see plentiful evidence that the people involved tried their best. Even Tank Girl had real effort and care, and that movie didn't have an ending, it just became a cartoon short with awful Hole music. But neither of those flawed films treated their audience with contempt. We didn't hear any self-righteous speeches about male inferiority from Lori Petty, Naomi Watts or Lea Thompson. (Funny thing; their stars never "fell", either. Watts only continued to rise. Amazing what happens when you appreciate your successes and endure your failures with aplomb.) Every single one of these mega-turkeys that craps out in the past decade, the makers blame the audience instead of themselves. They find or fabricate some angry fans to "justify" their failure and pretend the deck was somehow stacked against them. If anyone blames them, they condescend in response and say "it was a job, you need a reality check". Film people of yesteryear had real character and love for what they did. Film people of today only care about maintaining their safe place in The Bubble. They earn nothing, and then whine that the audience didn't give them a fair shake. Beyond pathetic.
That's because in the past people cared about telling a story. Even if they failed hey at least they hit the effort button. Now too many movies and series are about preaching the message as the drinker calls it. Storytelling isn't even an afterthought.
Man, we need more filmmakers like Joel Schumacher (RIP) He knew when he fucked up Batman and Robin and apologised for it. But then again, Twitter wasn't invented then, so who knows how it would've gone down...
Unpopular opinion: The movie is IMMENSELY quotable, and Shatner directed it rather well (at least the shooting side of it). McCoy's scene with his father is one of the most gripping parts I've ever seen in a Trek story. Inarguable opinion: Jerry Goldsmith's Trek scores are classics. 8:11 You forgot to mention all the movie's need to outjoke Trek IV.
Thanks! I was at a Star Trek convention, just before 5, with James Doohan as the special guest. I remember some Paramount guy speaking about 5, and yeah, I remember him mentioning about more comedy. Also, I mean, there was the paradise planet episode in the old series, so maybe 5’s plot was plausible? You could also contrast Star Trek 5 with Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, though Vol. 2 probably had more budget. Yeah, 5 is pretty bad, but still watchable, I guess. We then got The Undiscovered Country, which was great!
Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies hit the constraint. Shatner failed .
My favorite line in almost all of Star Trek is when Kirk rejects having his pain taken away. That you carry it with you, it can drive and shape you, make you who you are. You need your struggles and pain to guide you as much as your joy and victories. He knows its helped make him who he is, its going through those struggles that help him face new ones. Its a message I've held to heart for many years since I first saw it.
Honestly the idea of a Sci-Fi film where the characters are literally looking for God is an interesting idea in theory. The problem is you need a lot and I mean a LOT of thought into the story in order to properly stick the landing.
@@Dash-lx4ng a faithful adaptation of C. S. Lewis's Space Trilogy would be fun though, though the science in the novels was a little light and the planets deliberately not an exact match to how they really are.
Well, Roddenberry's idea was a retread of a script he'd been trying to sell Paramount on since "The Motion Picture"... some sort of time-travel story where they go back to Dealy Plaza in 1963 and manage to stop the Kennedy assassination, but it puts the universe into a tailspin so they have to "undo" what they did because if Kennedy lived it would have changed all of history. Basically a film treatment of "City on the Edge of Forever" (which was Harlan Ellison's script, so basically a retread of his work). Paramount never would go for it despite Gene Roddenberry pushing for it several times. Guess they figured it would cost too much to produce, the script would be problematic, and the ending would be unsatisfying to the moviegoers... SO they decided to go with Shatner's "The Enterprise gets hijacked by a televangelist who manages to brainwash the entire crew to go look for God in the center of the galaxy"... GO FIGURE!!! OL J R :)
Can't rember the name if it but I read a short story once about the crew of a colony ship returning to earth after the planet they were meant to settle was uninhabitable and finding the Christian Rapture happened well they were gone leaving earth empty. one of the crew members goes mad because he missed his chance to go to heaven and tries to kill the other crew members so they can see God and tell him to come back and get them. It was intresting if nothing else
Drinker! I am a second generation Star Trek fan. I saw this film in theaters when I was like 12 or 13! I must say, I knew nearly 99% of the facts that you put in your video. Great breakdown of Star Trek V! There were some wonderful scenes and character moments no doubt! It had such great potential, but just could not put it all together! Sad. P.S. This is my fourth drink of the night!! I dedicate it you Drinker! Carry on!
I've heard that they originally wanted Sean Connery as Spock's brother. Could you imagine him and Shatner doing scenes? As the Klingons might say, it would have been glorious!
Oddly enough, George Takei, who was no fan of Bill Shatner, had this to say about acting under his direction: "...despite our sometimes strained personal history, I found working with Bill [Shatner] as a director to be surprisingly pleasant."
Oh my god, right?! I read the first book almost on a lark, and finished it in like a day. I was like, "Damn, that was surprisingly good!" Had to wait a couple of months on the second one to come out, so I reread TekWar five or six times, just to keep it fresh for the next one.
I was just talking about that the other day, I have part of the series (which I accidentally read out of order and still enjoyed) but I need to find the rest
Star Trek V was among the handful of movies we owned on VHS when I was growing up. I watched it many times over. The opening scene with the soundtrack was always very pleasant to me. The camping scene highlighted the cost of a life of service toward something greater to one’s own life. I really appreciated that. DeForest Kelley absolutely knocked that whole sequence of reliving his deepest pain out of the f’ing park!!
This was actually the first movie I ever saw in the theaters, at five years old. It's funny, because it's really not a good Trek movie at all, but it got me hooked for life, so it'll always hold a special place for me.
It's really not a bad movie at all, either. The important thing is that it is easily as entertaining as most of the others. And it has a couple of Trek's greatest moments.
Yeah, me too. There are movies and series I saw as a kid that I know now aren't very good, but I'm willing to forgive them for a lot of mistakes. Nostalgia is a hellva' drug.
Shatner's idea isn't bad. Star trek has explored some aspects of Religion and God like entities like Q. I think it needed to be fit more into Trek but it's unique and ambitious.
IMO Deep Space Nine nailed the subject perfectly, particularly with the conundrum over the Prophets (or "wormhole aliens"). Atheist says "super powerful, non-corporeal alien that appears to exist outside time" Theist says "God"
@@koppsr Really more unitarian considering the false "God" entity portrayed himself as "one voice, many faces" and all the represented races present had their own perceptions of what the planet was. Kinda like when Kosh revealed his true self at the end of Babylon 5 season 3, and each race present saw him as the specific image the Vorlons had seeded into that race's religious culture.
Completely agree. Like The Drinker says, there are a lot of good things to be found in the film, it just doesn't gel together as a whole. Beyond that, I found the Sybok character intriguing and the overall story had promise. The problem is that a movie like this, especially a Star Trek movie, had to go big or just stop. Compromised Trek due to budget constraints and poor effects is just more disappointing for what could have been. You can see the same results by watching various episodes from Season 3 of the TOS.
@@matthewmuir8884 Although it could also refer to his first 'death' in Generations, where Kirk is swallowed by The Nexus and endures a sort of living death alone within it for 78 years.
ST V needs more love. It’s like going to Shatner’s place for dinner. And he’s cooking in the kitchen. But he’s had too much vino and burnt the chicken as he sings through his version of Common People. It tastes horrible, but I’d tell anecdotes about it years later
Here I am again, being the lone Star Trek fan who LOVES this movie. There are so many deep and brilliant quotes in this film, that people hate it is beyond me. I LOVE this one. I find the whale one enjoyable, but not as good as this one. Of course 2 is the bestn period.
You're not alone. I also enjoy this movie. Everyone goes on about the religious overtones - perhaps I misunderstood, because I thought it was in line with other Star Trek media (something seems God like but is proven to be an advanced, powerful alien which is then defeated). Certainly TNG had storylines along the same lines.
@@izzieb Yes quite true... I think it's the poorly done "neon cartoon special effects" and the muddled story with too many religious overtones that really turns people off this one. But like you said, it's not anything they haven't done in different ways before and since... Even TMP was based on an original script called "The God Thing"... Later! OL J R :)
No way. I love it too. I left a similar comment on another video a few weeks ago, that I felt like the only person who loves it, and a lot of people replied saying they liked ST5 too.
@@cobracommander8133 Thanks. our little 14 thumbs up show we are in an exclusive group. Don't care, I LOVE it and it's as simple as that. That you all are on board, the more the merrier!
I read the book that Shatner's daughter wrote about the struggles her father was up against making this movie. I feel sorry for him and he should be commended for achieving what he did. His heart was really in it.
Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .
Though I know a lot of people don't care for this outing for the Enterprise crew I think the scene in the observation lounge is incredibly deep and a gem. In that one scene we get to see and experience the various kinds of pain through the eyes and experiences of the characters. McCoy at having to let his father die - Pain of conscious Spock - Pain of not feeling he met and could not meet expectations Kirk - Pain of life experiences and of having to make command decisions McCoys father - Physical pain and helplessness Sybok - The pain of not being able to save everyone and remove their pain However in the confrontation of their pain they accept it existence and move beyond it. Accepting, to one degree or another, that it is essential to who they were and who they are.
Okay I would not have used that scene but I will make a little excuse for it, ( why? Don't know) the A wasn't the same ship, it clearly wasn't upgraded to the same degree as the original and it's not uncommon for minor design changes to exist between earlier and later versions of the same model, so those beams were doubtless higher in the 1701 than the 1701 A
There's a lot of great scenes in 5 (Bones re-living his fathers death, Spock trying to understand camping). It's light years better than the crap Hollywood churns out today.
Legend tells that Shatner came up with the idea of a great plot, but it was so incredible that he decided to keep it a secret and develop it all by himself... .... and then Tekwar came to life.
Bits and pieces of this one stick with me. The one big resentment I remember carrying out was the "I know this ship like the back of my hand" bit. It's okay as a silly, throwaway joke- but Scotty knocks himself unconscious, and that's how the fanatic's people end up capturing him. Whoever thought it was okay to use that bit for carrying forward even a small piece of plot should have been keelhauled.
Final Frontier is the one movie that had the feel of a classic TOS episode. Shitty effects, off the rack costumes, and an energy being that is defeated by a Shatner speech. The cave scene is one of the best scenes in any Trek film too.
"an energy being defeated by a Shatner speech' LOLZ, I never even considered that. How many energy beings did he defeat that way - I lost count. I totally agree it is the closest to TOS. Its actually my fourth favorite of the series after Wrath, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact. Hi rating for rewatchability - you can drop right in anywhere. And Sybok is a great villian.
Powerful ideas. The opening minutes with a laughing vulcan is striking. Challenging the very abject humanism that the franchise is built on. Shaking the foundations of trek. Embracing emotion and religion as alternative and valid modes of thought and experience. Sadly, the half baked script never quite lives up to the potential of the premise. At least the character moments with kirk, spock and mccoy are great even if the rest of it falls flat. I would love to see a renewed take on these ideas, but I have even less faith in modern trek to pull it off.
Try NO faith... Bad Reboot (Jar Jar Trek) is TOTALLY incapable of even REtelling the original stories in a decent way. They'd TOTALLY screw the pooch trying to redo ST V... OL J R :)
Hope, Redemption and the Pursuit of Objective Truth are Powerful messages that have been relevant in the best of stories Popular Culture has told. The Matrix is a cyberpunk parable where all have fallen asleep to an enslaving computer system yet some rebels are able to wake up and alert others of the Truth. In recent memory, Violet Evergarden is a story about the titular character's redemption in learning how to empathise with others. Of course, their are countless stories like Lord of the Rings or Narnia which deal with Good overcoming Evil. Humanist entertainment can show traces of these ideas since they hold most of the same values but the ultimate lack of a foundational moral code and the absence of long term hope has often resulted in humanists creating nihilistic pieces of work, whether intentional of not. With that said, even some humanists recognise the values of a Religiously motivated lifestyle. The Director of the film 'The Book of Eli' isn't even a Christian yet he thought that a story of Denzel Washington traversing post apocalyptic Earth with the last copy of the Holy Bible made for a great premise.
@@ScotsThinker I meant "NO FAITH" in Hollyweird today being able to redo ST 5 and producing anything but the same sort of utter rubbish they crank out today... Not "no faith" as in atheistic... OL J R :)
The cast did an excellent job. McCoy was at his game, as usual. Lawrence Luckinbill (sp?) was a phenomenal Sybok. I'd have followed that guy to the corners of the universe. The worst about the film were the terrible FX, but I can look those over to see the heart of what the story was trying to tell.
@@ScotsThinker The Book of Eli was an awesome film. It should be the gold standard for religious productions, along with Ben-Hur. Instead of all that garbage with Kevin Sorbo they keep on making.
You know watching your Production Hell series really makes me appreciate the good and great movies that came from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. It just seems like that was a really tough time for movie making.
Budgets on special effects were limited. Everything had to be built by hand, which is both materials & labor intensive. Today effects are made with a computer. It’s easy in comparison Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited for making effects. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .
Hmm. I never saw it that way. He's pretending to be God, that's obvious and not doing a great job afterall, for the real God requires nothing. The evidence that we live in a purpose built Universe made with intelligence is also obvious for anyone willing to see it.
@@JamesRDavenport Hey thanks for the thoughtful comment. I think we generally agree with eachother. Plato's "Euthyphro" is a book where Socrates makes a compelling argument against piety and the Gods of his time. Generally, Socrates puts forth that everything calling themselves a God is infact subordinate to something higher than themselves which is the actual "God" (I use quotations there because i'm unsure of a word that is something beyond that of a God as I understand it in language)
@@GQBouncer Euthyphro is an interesting book, but the famous Euthyphro dilemma isn't as powerful as it's often made out to be. Classical Theism (the conception of God historically dominant in Christianity for pretty much all of its existence) have a view of God that's not susceptible to it, holding that morality is neither arbitrary divine fiat nor based on a standard independent of God (which would make God not God, but merely "a god" like Thor or Odin, who even if they existed would merely be big, powerful people and absolutely nothing like the true God). You can see a more detailed explanation here: edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/10/god-obligation-and-euthyphro-dilemma.html
The campfire scene was brilliant, possibly my favorite in any Star Trek movie. In my head Spock is well aware that "Row Your Boat" is a metaphor but just enjoys fucking with McCoy
Takei said in his autobiography that he was shocked how good of a director Shatner turned out to be. He was speaking if the daily experience of working with him.
Nonsense. Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .
@@electrictroy2010 I agree. I think Shatner was starting to understand that over the years. Although I don't believe he would ever make a good director regardless of the budget lol. I didn't mean to give the impression that Takei thought Shatner did a great job but rather he was surprised how Shatner didn't exploit being director to put himself center stage even more. Takei reflected that it was actually pleasant to work with him.
Funny how everyone blames Shatner as Director but it comes down to the studio pushing the time up and not giving any budget to make the film. the writing is some of the best in the franchise. McCoy and his father, the camp fire scene. Yes it could have used a few more rewrites for the rest.
That scene with Bones and his dad is a solid gut-punch. I remember seeing it in the theater and just having all the air sucked out of me when Kelley delivered the "They found a cure" line. For all the shit people have talked about TFF, that was one of the most impactful scenes in the entire franchise.
The ones who blamed Shatner for this WANTED to blame him. Their guns were loaded. Ol' Bill has been weathering ridicule and scorn for probably his entire career, not to mention the loss of a wife by drowning, and yet the guy is almost always genial and appealing. Maybe Chris Pine will be like that in his 80's, it's not impossible. Maybe Karl Urban as an old man could have a devastating moment like McCoy does with his father in TFF. (A scene which, by the way, I completely blocked out from the last time I saw it decades ago, holy god, even if you haven't lost your dad it's brutal.) I give Karl a lifetime pass for the best portrayal of Judge Dredd ever. Seriously though, how great was DREDD? I might go watch it again now. I've seen it a dozen times. THAT'S what happens when you treat a franchise and its fans with respect. Sorry to go off-topic.
For all the Blame it on the low budget guys: ~33million 1988 dollars is not a small budget! Aliens three years earlier had about two thirds of that... It would be interesting what Shatner took home for this movie.
As a kid I loved ST:V, "What does God need with a starship?" 😆 It didn't realize how bad it was until I was older. But still, it was a part of my childhood, and even though it's aged like alka-seltzer in warm milk, I can't hate it.
The scene with Spock and McCoy looking at their pasts was the best part of that movie, along with Kirk's, "I don't want my pain taken away, I NEED my pain!" moment. The rest, with the exception of a few other moments, was impossible to swallow.
It was weird that Spock just.....had a brother? And that he just....appeared? Kidding aside, I think the movie did a little good in terms of world building. Case in point, it answered why Vulcans are seemingly emotionless and more logical with Spock's brother. They are WAY more dangerous and can turn anyone against each other with a mere touch.
I actually liked it. Especially the moments where it fleshes out characters in a way we haven't seen before. Also as much as "secret lost sibling" premise is silly, I really like the prophetic villain.
And if anyone was going to have a secret lost sibling, it was going to be Spock. He's not the type to say anything not directly relevant to the conversation or the situation at hand
@@smiffy24601 That aspect of it was pretty believable. I can absolutely see Spock not bringing that up in conversation with Kirk at any point, despite the two of them being best friends. That kind of friendship doesn't work the same way as it would between two (full-blooded) humans.
@@ReticentDuet In a good _Trek_ we could have had Sybok and Michael interact. There are some definite possibilities; Sybok's an interesting character to explore. But Kurtzman.
This movie was so... different than the other TOS films. The beginning parts had an almost Star Wars aesthetic with the "discount Mos Eisley" bar on the desert planet Nimbus III. Whereas, Star Trek 6 felt like it belonged alongside 2, 3, and 4 stylistically.
It's still a good Saturday morning hangover movie. You have to give the editors kudos for putting this together. I still think the first one in the series so totally underrated. It gets better each time you watch it.
"ST VI: The Undiscovered Country" is absolutely beautiful... From Praxis to the end credits, it is just perfect. Mr Drinker should recommend it to those poor young souls who have only known STD, as far as trekking the stars is concerned...
“Temperatures regularly went to 110 causing people to pass out” Me listening to this video while working outside in construction where it’s been over 105 every day for weeks and over 110 half of the time.
What also got to the fans is that Spock, all of a sudden, has a half-brother that nobody knew about in all these decades. Also they had to reshoot the scene with the rebel army advancing on Paradise City. It seems that someone had forgot to check the shoes, they were all wearing sneakers.
Despite all it's shortcomings, I like the movie. It's fun and laid back, there's lots of great character moments. Also, as someone else suggested (Mauler maybe?), its interesting to imagine the whole thing is just Kirk dreaming about being a hero, as it is a little far-fetched, even in the wacky land of Star Trek. That certainly makes its shortcomings easier to bear, at the very least.
When you talk about these production issues, I'm immediately brought back into the hell of making 8-12 minute short films around L.A. Everything that could possibly go wrong generally went wrong. And it usually involved someone trying to get literally thousands of dollars from me for nothing.
DeForest Kelley, on The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder (NBC) in the mid-'70's, about the possibility of a Star Trek movie: "One of the ideas (for the movie) is the crew finding God in space and finding out he's the Devil." So that idea had been around a while. I was at a comic book convention in 1990, seated a few tables down from Peter David, who wrote the novelization for STAR TREK V. He spent the whole weekend telling all and sundry pretty much what you've said here: The movie had a lot of potential that was never realized. Still, it has Kirk's "I need my pain" speech, which is about the only good bit of writing in the movie, and his line, "Why does God need a spaceship?" is classic. All this, and Uhura's fan dance...!
The scene where Kirk, Spock and McCoy are forced to confront their pain is amazing. If the rest of the movie measured up to that it would have a place at or near the top of the list. Uhura's fan dance was the lowest low point of all low points for classic Trek.
That sequence is the thing in the movie that stands out. Kirk basically saying that he needs his pain to motivate himself, to keep his edge is great. That's the 5% of the movie that's great surrounded by 95% of other drivel.
The desert scenes were filmed 20 minutes from my house, with lots of locals taking part. A special showing was given to those extras at our movie theater. The unique rock formations seen in the climax are the Trona Pinnacles. As weird as this movie was, it holds a special place in our hearts because our beloved Mojave is captured in a Star Trek movie -- and that's pretty cool.
I actually like this more than The Motion Picture, whereas that film meandered for what felt like a thousand years, Final Frontier moves at a brisk pace, sure the God concept is dumb, but it's the interplay between the trio that I find most pleasing, it's been honed over the last 7 years, I found the situation proved how strong the bond they had was
One thing I really liked about TMP was all the extended sets of the interior of the Enterprise... the recreation deck, the officers lounge, the REAL shuttle and cargo bay... I wish those extended sets had not been destroyed, and instead be used in later films.
I actually loved the deep dives into the hurts of the characters. Spock being regarded as a mixed breed by his own father (like, he was having a human wife. What was he expecting ???) McCoy having to go against his oath to alleviate the pain of his father (only to realise that 6 months later he could have been saved). Sadly, then they don't delve into Kirk's problem, but actually him evading the whole thing actually speaks volumes to me about him being afraid to lose. But then there was the antagonist who was basically just a televangelist hypnotiser. IT would have been an interesting three-parter if they've gone everywhere and wanting to believe in god, only to realise that they were taken for a ride. Would have actually made more sense and would have served as a warning.
I don't know that Shatner doesn't deserve some of his rep ego-wise, but certainly I think he drew a short straw for his one big directing gig on the franchise. By all accounts everything that could go wrong did.
I had no idea about the production issues with this one. Thanks for the entertaining 10 mins as ever. I have to say though, even though this is far from the greatest Trek movie ever made. I've always kind of enjoyed this one. Having now heard the original intentions, I agree with you that it's a shame that we never saw it as it was intended to be made. Studios hey....
I watched it recently and enjoyed it! Yeah the effects are a bit shoddy, but the story is fun and the characters work very well together. Plus, its Jerry Goldsmith score is gorgeous! I think V is quite an underrated movie.
You should definitely do a video on the production hell of The Wizard of Oz (1939). All of the main actors were pretty traumatised by it. 40 degree sets, long days, hot costumes, aluminium and copper paint, and special effects accidents to name a few 'missteps'.
Stuff I like in ST:V The relationships between all the characters especially Kirk, Spock, and McCoy I find myself quoting it which means some of the lines are pretty good The fact that Kirk knows that pain is a part of who we are and we need our pain.
Its one of my favourite star trek films, the poorest star trek film was 3 for me for effects and 1 for film, number five was a big adventure - all of them are very enjoyable.
