Professional American English Teacher Reviews the "Elsa Speak" Pronunciation Trainer | English Hacks 

Great comment! Nice and lengthy haha ☺ You can thank Elmi for asking if I'd heard about it (I hadn't either). If you think my views from this lesson are interesting and useful, you're going to adore the big lesson I have coming up. It's essentially the exact opposite of this and provides a sort of schematic for understanding why real speech is so messy. But yeah, that's an interesting note about the merger. Since I don't reallh care about the unmerged sound but it's taught in Gen Am, I just assumed it was a standard part of that accent, even for young people. Good to know, and all the more reason for my approach 😁 Of course, I'm biased here, but if there's any American accent that should be considered "neutral" (which I still wouldn't quite call it that), it would be Western American bc of all the influence of TV and movies as you mentioned, not to mention it's generally the least complicated (while being almost the same) and is easier to learn (imo), which sounds like a good candidate for neutrality to me haha

No one from the UK sounds like that, no one. There will always be a vowel or consonant dropped somewhere. Speaking as they do in these recordings will make you sound like a robot and result in confused frowns from most native speakers

Exactly!

Yes, specially taking into account that the courses with recognized English certifications are way too expensive, and after watching many elsaspeak app reviews I think the app is a must have

They do sponsorships? Well, guess I lost my chance haha jk. Transparency and brutal honesty is my policy. I know what it's like to look for good material and apps only to be disappointed, so if I don't recommend something, I would never take money to say that I do recommend it. And if I do recommend something, not everybody will like that thing, of course, but you know that I genuinely think it's worth it. I'll never sell out my audience 🙂

@@NativeEnglishHacks haha don't think they are highly compensated for it tho. Maybe small commission. Many, including myself, have unsubscribed from their channels because of that btw. So, you are the winner :) Please keep punching! Awesome videos!

Who cares? A ton if people. Just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. It's a personal preference. As for Google, sure, if you want to limit yourself to external tools forever instead of developing the necessary skills

@@NativeEnglishHacks Agree on this. The better your accent, many doors are opened.

As language teachers we can sometimes forget the benefits muscular/mechanical exercises. Doing “Some” is much better than none, even if the grading standard is frustrating, challenging and idiosyncratic. I say this, knowing that I can’t find a second place app that compares anywhere close to ELSA in terms of value and functionally. If you know one, please recommend. If ELSA would allow teacher/entrepreneurs to self-brand or affiliate benefits, a teacher could embed this app within their own course, and even self brand it. Win win win. If you want to share info let me know. It’s a powerful tool and can be used in tandem with classic lessons.

All that's perfectly fine. It's fantastic that you can click on individual words and get better feedback, and that definitely makes me think a little more favorably of the app. However, my point still stands. First of all, 80% (though very good for someone just wanting to sound more clear and understandable) cannot be considered native-like in my opinion. 95%, maybe, but not 80%. Second, as I said at the end, this app can likely take you very far and it can definitely help to improve your pronunciation, but the AI (and/or intent behind the program) is simply not sufficient enough to give you a completely natural sounding accent. If nothing else, there's way too much put into enunciation, which can actually hinder your accent, and as far as I know it does nothing to address the messy nature of real, natural speech - and I don't mean slang or informal speech, I mean the way most people actually talk, which isn't often super clearly enunciated. In fact, enunciation is a tool that we use when needed, not the standard, normal mode of actual speech. My goal with my audience is to take them to whatever level of clearness and/or naturalness they want, all the way up to 100% native-sounding in all aspects. This app can't do that, at least not in its present form. Lastly, regardless of how good a particular tool is, it's always up to the learner to put in the time and effort. Some tools make things easier, but skills can't be given, they must be earned. Most people are looking for the "best tool" or "best way" to do things that require them to put in as little effort as possible. I'm not saying that a lot of effort is always needed (and sometimes you can try too hard), but when it comes to the physical/mechanical level of skill development (mouth and ears in spoken language), you simply have to put in the work and the amount of work you put in - as long as you're doing the right kind of work - will determine how far you go. Of course, a good teacher and direct feedback can help make this process a lot easier, but it's still on the learner, not a teacher or app. I think this app does make things easier in many ways, it's just not good enough to match actual, messy speech. If you're okay with that, then there's no problem whatsoever, but I think it fools a lot of people into thinking they'll sound as natural as a native when it's simply not the case - close, but not quite. That distinction is important to many learners in my experience.

In addition, think about it this way: because there's so much emphasis on clear, enunciated speech, that score of 80% isn't 80% like a native, it's 80% like a native if a native were to clearly enunciate most or every word - which, again, is not natural and not how most people speak. So the actual score on a scale of complete naturalness would be lower than 80%. In essence, it's a somewhat simplified version (which of course is something an AI can handle better)

@@NativeEnglishHacks _"First of all, 80% (though very good for someone just wanting to sound more clear and understandable) cannot be considered native-like in my opinion. 95%, maybe, but not 80%."_ That argument falls flat considering that you, a person who speaks at a native-level, struggled to get a score of +95% with simple short sentences in this very video. Unless you believe that your spoken English is not native-level? _"If nothing else, there's way too much put into enunciation, which can actually hinder your accent, and as far as I know it does nothing to address the messy nature of real, natural speech"_ _" I think it fools a lot of people into thinking they'll sound as natural as a native when it's simply not the case"_ The program doesn't solely grade your pronunciation. It also grades your fluency, intonation, and word stress. You can complete a sentence without mispronouncing any word yet fail to score over 80% because you spoke like a robot and didn't consider those three elements, which make all the difference between natural speech and non-natural speech. The program also allows you to hear yourself and know where you sound off. You should be very capable of telling whether you sounded natural or not, which brings us to the next point: you shouldn't be outputting in the first place if your listening capabilities aren't fluent yet. That gives birth to bad habits. (Unless you have access to a personal tutor during your early output months.) _"regardless of how good a particular tool is, it's always up to the learner to put in the time and effort."_ Definitely! I completely agree with that.

The argument doesn't fall flat. I'm saying a score of 80% in reality cannot be considered native-like, not what's given by the app. Supposing the app were perfect, then we would be on the same page and 80% according to the app would be 80% in reality. But given that the app isn't perfect and the score it gives is actually lower than in reality, it's not even 80%. I'm aware that it also takes into consideration the intonation and all that, and that's great, but that doesn't solve the problems I mentioned and I doubt those are perfect in the app, either. Regardless, I can't give it my seal of approval because it fails my standards, if for no other reason than what I've previously mentioned. As for the point about not outputting before gettiing sufficient input, that's one way to do it, but it's not required and saying that it is required is more dogma than fact. There are plenty of language learners and even polyglots who start from more of an output basis and they do perfectly well. Check out my video about input vs output and the best way to learn a language. That will introduce you to it, but there's a lot more that can be said on the topic. Everything works, but not everything works for everybody. Additonally, in terms of pronunciation and ear training, this isn't like regular input/output. This deals with the physical/mechanical level that underpins the actual skills of speaking and listening. If I ever explore or try to learn a new language, I start from day one with the pronunciation in all aspects, training both my mouth and my ears. There are a number of polyglots who do this, as well, particularly Idahosa Ness. Why? Because it makes everything else in the language - even learning vocab and grammar - so much easier. Not starting here, though possible and fine, is like trying to run when you don't quite know how to use your legs yet. Get that down and master walking (the basic physical/mechanical level), then running becomes a lot easier.

One more point I forgot: you would think that a language learner would be perfectly capable of telling whether they sound natural or not,, but 9 times out of 10, that's not the case. In fact, even the advanced level students I've taught who had pretty great pronunciation skills already were shocked to find that their ears were deceiving them - because they never properly trained their ears and their brain was compensating. Playbacks from recordings are an excellent way to help combat this problem, but it's not foolproof and other things are often needed, like minimal pair training.

Good points, but two problems. 1) As far as I know, they don't say that they're giving you that overdone version, so the learner is under the false impression that that's how natives speak and they end up aiming to sound overdone without realizing it. 2) The fact that I, as a native speaker, either can't seem to pass certain details or sometimes need to try multiple times and speak so clearly as to sound unnatural in order to pass certain details tells me that the AI is simply not good enough. Can you get benefit from it? Yes. Is it a source of feedback? Yes. Is it better than nothing? Debatable. But if your goal is to sound as native and natural as possible, my opinion is that it fails miserably. And I would love for it to succeed, not only for the benefit of English learners, but also because I would actually be able to accept a sponsorship or promote it as an affiliate, but my conscience currently won't allow that.

@@NativeEnglishHacks Very good points!

Thanks for sharing that, bro!

I played around a bit with the actual app before I posted the review and I wasn't any more impressed. I'm not going to rehash everything here, but I stand by the review. Yes, I'm sure there have been some improvements, and if it does actually help, great. But I personally wouldn't trust it enough if I were learning English and I can't give it my endorsement. If I'm going to put my name behind something, it has to pass a really high bar.

@@NativeEnglishHacks exactly. I use Elsa and there are some errors, spelling and pronunciation.

Thanks! Glad to help ☺

Yes, the app is dumb for you. Not everyone.

Well...the AI probably didn't understand anything if you speak with scottish accent, sorry to say 😂

Slurring or linking with a good flow?

@@NativeEnglishHacks Both

Do you speak Spanish ?

Claro. Not perfectly, though

@@glendysso8864 no. I'm Brazilian, I speak PortugueseBr

Woops. Didn't realize this was in response to your comment :p

You're barking up the wrong tree

Make sure to watch the lessons about the half-L vowel ("dark L"). E-mail is ee-meil, with an L-colored ei. Alternatively, you can link a normal ei and the half-L with a small Y. All that is also true for "while", except instead of ei it uses ai. In the song, they're slightly manipulating the word to fit the music and this is not the normal way to say the word

@@NativeEnglishHacks Thanks again for the quick response.

Not really. I do have a free ear trainer that you can download from my website (jdanielauthor.com/downloads/), though that's still only version 1 and currently only available for Windows

Unfortunately, it looks like intonation is a pro feature and I'm not going to pay for it. It probably has the same problems, but even if it doesn't, it's best to get feedback from a real human. You can find cheap native speaking tutors on italki. That's what I would do.

Not quite. What I'm saying is that Elsa can help you speak more clearly, but it won't make you sound completely natural. If you want to sound like a native, this isn't the best tool. If you don't want to sound like a native and just want people to more clearly understand you, then it will help.

You don't need any fancy products or tools, you just need to train your ears, pay attention to how natives actually speak, and shadow them. My channel's a good place to get started and all for free (especially after I finish the mouth posture course, which is the ultimate hack). You just have to put in the work (which is what a lot of people are (subconsciously) trying to avoid when looking for some fancy tool).

American

There's a free test that you can do on the PC. I used that to test the ability of the AI and the speaker's pronunciation. I played around with the actual app on my phone a bit, but I didn't record it because it didn't affect my recommendation.

? Are you referring to mouth posture?

@@NativeEnglishHacks thank you for your reply. Well I’m not sure what it was. You talked about this new concept at the start of the Elsa review episode.

I don't remember lol. It was probably the lesson about how American English has more than one neutral accent. It doesn't matter. Mouth posture is the secret key 🙂

The evaluation standard of this app is native speaker, not an understandable standard. It is not suitable for beginners, but it has a beginner's grade. The only function of this app is the initial pronunciation lessons.

Lol. Well, at least your pronunciation is pretty clear ☺

@@NativeEnglishHacks waiting for the live stream

4 more hours. Almost time ☺

I don't know of any apps for RP, but my advice would be to not rely on apps like that. If you find one, it can be useful, but it will only help you to a certain extent, meaning that it likely won't solve all of your problems. Instead, it's much better to get feedback from an actual person and know the techniques to be able to adjust your sound. As long as your speaking to a native, if you know the techniques, they don't have to be a teacher. A good option is to find a language exchange partner on a site like italki for free. In addition, regardless of what you do or use, the biggest tip I can give is to focus on your ears, not your eyes (even if your goal is producing the sounds). This is one of the paradoxical traps with IPA. The IPA is a crutch, at best. What you want to do is train your ears. You can do that using things like minimal pairs. This helps you hear when you're making mistakes, but you still won't hear some things. That's part of why getting feedback from a person is ideal (AI feedback, though useful, has limitations). Also, recording yourself helps a lot because it frees your brain's resources and you'll be able to hear yourself more accurately in the recording. It's a process that will take some time, but you want to develop the skill of hearing sounds properly in addition to trying to produce them. Then you can better tell when you're making the correct sound or not and the IPA becomes irrelevant so you don't need it anymore. The IPA is just an alphabet with more symbols to represent more sounds. It still relies on your eyes instead of developing the actual ability to hear those sounds, which is why I call it a crutch. Always focus on your ears, not your eyes. That's the source of all pronunciation development ☺

@@NativeEnglishHacks I know the ears are important but the thing is if the th sound hard for me (which it is) I cannot understand whather I'm pronuncing correctly or not. Because of that, I said rather a tutor would good for me (which is expensive) or an app could be good.

The th is a good example of the possible limitation of current AI. The voiceless th and the f (a common problem pair) can sound so similar even when natives do them that the AI might say you're right when you're not. In my opinion, you need a real person, whether paid or as an exchange partner, and not necessarily all the time - once a week is a good minimum while you play with the sound between sessions (more is ideal, but money constraints need to be adapted to if you can't find or don't want an exchange partner). Once you find a sound (through micro-adjustments and feedback), you build it into muscle memory. Once it's there, you don't need anymore feedback for that sound (but keep brushing up on it for a while to make sure the neural pathways get super strong). Skill-building can be hard, but I don't trust current AI as feedback for this task. Maybe in another 20-30 years, but what I've seen (from Elsa, as well as other AI that some of my students have tried), it just doesn't cut it. At least not if you want to sound natural and native-like. If your goal is just to be more understood and you don't care about mastery of all the sounds (which is perfectly fine, too), then an AI can certainly help you, but know that it won't always give you perfect feedback.

BBC learning english or learn english, I can't remember the exact name, sorry hahahaha but you can shadow their videos about pronunciation.

Even if that were true (I don't think that's the problem), not everyone has access to podcast-quality microphones, especially English learners from poorer countries around the world, which would mean that I still wouldn't recommend it for pronunciation unless you have a really good mic. That automatically disqualifies a lot of people who might otherwise put money into it.

@@NativeEnglishHacks true

That's a car, right? I don't have one. I assume you're insinuating that I'm a shill of some sort due to my negative review. I wish I had that kind of money, but honestly I'm lower middle class, if that. I know you're likely a troll and I shouldn't even bother, but I find it entertaining when people come to such conclusions. My opinion is not for sale

@@NativeEnglishHacks No no it’s no hate 😂 Don’t worry it’s all good I said it because you kind of look like a guy named Andrew Tate and that’s one of his most famous quotes I didn’t mean it offensive in any way ✌️

OH! Lol, my bad. Sorry. I have no idea who that is, so it came straight outta left field for me 😆 No worries 🙂

@@NativeEnglishHacks LOL okay!

Yes

It does if you watch the whole video. But even if it didn't, the fact that the AI failed to give a native speaker with a neutral accent a perfect score after multiple attempts is all you really need to know. Best case, it can't be fully trusted, but worst case, it will mislead you. Ultimately, it depends on your goals. This app will likely be able to get you to good enough, but not native.

Well, to be fair, it's not *that* bad lol

Put yourself in the shoes of non-native English speakers with whom being able to speak English spot on would bring them a ton of opportunities, then being able to speak like a robot is actually not that bad.

Of course. I never say you have to sound like a native or be perfect. But there are those who want to sound more natural and/or have a perfect or near perfect accent. For those learners, I don't recommend this tool. In addition, learning from the bottom up by focusing on sound and learning not to sound like a robot in the first place makes everything else way easier (and can make you easier to understand). It's not either or ☺