Programming drums? You need to see this!

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Want to learn how to make your drum programming HUMAN? We brought in Germany's #1 session drummer to demontstrate, and Henning shows you how to get the same results onscreen! This is a MUST for everyone programming drums at home! Get it at: www.spectredigital.com/produc.... Sale ends SUNDAY NIGHT!
0:00 Insults & throwdowns
1:00 Henning gets upset
3:00 The point of this episode
4:40 The Felix Factor
7:30 get OFF the grid!
8:11 How drummers ACTUALLY play!
10:00 it's NOT perfect!
14:00 Showing how it's done
18:40 finding the notes together
22:20 The Course
24:51 the Black Friday Deal
27:46 Your Programmed Drums won't be boring
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!

Опубликовано:

27 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 188

@MoreMeRecording 2 года назад

Felix looks like a guy that could lay down a killer track during the day and then cook us a wicked schnitzel after the session for dinner!

@followthebeat66 2 года назад

I had this Mario Luigi connection in mind.

@LEWITT-audio 2 года назад

"What would Keith Moon do in this situation?" - makes every business meeting more interesting.

@NeverWillWeRest 2 года назад

"Do you have any skills?" *pulls a fish out of his ass and starts eating it.*

@morbidmanmusic 2 года назад

Glenn is correct about the room sound. 70's dry drums, carpet rooms. 60's were more open. Zeppilin is unique in the conversation.

@MadCat1381 2 года назад

23:13 Glenn is on the shirt! :D

@Dgarig665 2 года назад

Hanging out with Lemmy would fix a lot of things. The man was a fucking legend.

@ReverendWin-id9gp 2 года назад

Lemmy would fix you...lol

@Mikey__R 2 года назад

I'm not saying that Lemmy was the rock at the centre that the universe was spinning around, but have you noticed how things have gone since he left?

@AdemVessell 2 года назад

Superior Drummer 3 truly is remarkable...paried with a Roland TD-17KVX is a magical experience.

@MrMOGHammer 2 года назад

using Addictive Drums 2 myself, and I kind of got sick of programming drums. Decided that it wouldn't hurt to actually learn to play drums myself and then I got an e-drum. Practice everyday and getting slowly better at that. Still prefer that than programming drums. At least a human is playing the fucking tracks.

@AdemVessell 2 года назад

@@MrMOGHammer To each their own for sure, but for me for my time and effort I never got into programming chords/melodies or drums. It seems excessively tedious to me personally. But some folks are really masters with a mouse click so more power to em! For me I'm really in my element reacting, playing, hitting, strumming etc in real time :D

@lvcifer-616 2 года назад

Just tuning in i gotta say it's so wonderful to see how much you guys love each other I'm not even joking

@jordanbyates 2 года назад

I’ve been waiting on this one!! This series is gonna rule!

@AREA_FIFTY_1 2 года назад

Respect for doing an amazing job going 30 vids in 30 days is a hell of an effort well done! a wealth of knowledge and really appreciate the time spent''

@placebodomingo3277 2 года назад

Oh yeah! Congrats! No mind to how shitty the info is.

@neilsnow7644 2 года назад

The slow-mo cam on the drums was a particularly sweet touch and an awesome idea. Probably the best part. You can really see exactally what the drummer is doing.

@yanossnicklefritz7064 2 года назад

Very cool video. Since so many of us are actually programming drums these days. Not having to deal with scheduling to work with a live drummer and recording them is so much easier. And it lets you do what you want, when you want it, how you want it, and so cleanly using drums recorded on some of the best kits there are, with great producers and engineers in some of the best studios with the best mics. It's just an awesome writing and recording tool. I play everything else, but drums are the one instrument I never learned. I am going to look into his course.

@dshredmusic 2 года назад

What a priceless and wholesome level of bantering 😂😂😂

@cblack5805 2 года назад

I think this course would be valuable to someone who wants to be a better drummer - not just a programmer! Seriously. If you have an easier time understanding abstract concepts (such as deviations on a grid) and learn that way, I expect this course would help you learn what's actually happening when you sit at the kit! The quickest way for me to fuck up on drums is to think, "Hey, what did I just do? What am I doing now?" A course like this could really help with that! I'm hoping to get this in the inevitable Christmas sale. Can't even afford $79 right now because I bought a new guitar 3 weeks ago. Mind: blown. Hats off to Henning.

@seventhson4576 2 года назад

it's so great when you hear the drummer groove in any type of song, great point of view glenn\m/

@Nati 2 года назад

this drummer is amazing ! from martin miller's band

@firmans12 2 года назад

I remember that guy if im not wrong from the old meinl demo videos. That dude Got a tasty grooves and killer chops

@ghouliethousandtrouser2905 2 года назад

As someone who falls asleep seemingly at random, I gotta say, that "ARE YOU SLEEPING?" bit was kinda brilliant in concept. Like, it should be used on all informative/educational content at least once every hour, lol

@NetherlordAxenrot 2 года назад

Straight fucking gold. Good points on both sides. Can’t wait to see a Glenn vs Hemming metal-off!! 🤘

@miltonex 2 года назад

Realy!!! Love this guy!!!!! Thank you Glenn!!!

@MrClassicmetal 2 года назад

Great video, love the content. And Henning wears the most colourful shirts in existence and plays the moste awesome gear! 😁

@davetbassbos 2 года назад

Haha, that intro was brilliant, like the handshake fakeout.

@jakestogsdill 2 года назад

yep 100% needed too see this. Thanks

@hyperunplugged 2 года назад

Hey Glenn! I've been using drum samples for years. But recently, after lineup changes in my band, my good friend offered to help with whatever we have to record, going as far as offering his drumming. Just listened to the tracks he sent and - holy shit - the music feels so ALIVE. No idea how the hell I'd be able to mix live drums; it's been such a long time since I got to do it. I play in a punk band, so the DIY attitude has been a part of me for years. MIDI has been the way to go for me for a long while. Might be a controversial opinion, though: I'd rather release a subpar mix (of a song with energy and life) over a good mix that sounds flat. Working with actual musicians makes me feel alive instead of slouching down on my DAW and recording (and programming) everything. That said, if this came out years ago, I definitely would've learned a shit ton from it. I'm still purchasing the course though, because this is still incredibly useful. Fuck you Glenn!!! peace.

@gilbertspader7974 2 года назад

I enjoy teasing Henning as much as anyone but this is gold dust. Thanks for all the information even if we are ungrateful bastards.

@devingrubbs 2 года назад

You can also record a free-time performance and map the grid to it using a feature like Logic's Beat Mapping. You get the human timing, yet you still retain the convenience of working on the grid. I've done this recently while programming some drum covers of Nirvana, Foo Fighters, American Football, Led Zeppelin, among others and I'm always amazed how much it adds to the realism vs. the same MIDI set to a static tempo.

@MattyMorrissey 2 года назад

Glenn vs Henning riff competition! If Glenn loses he has to wear one of those cat t shirts

@minhuang8848 2 года назад

Superior Drummer bangs hard. If you want a detailed overview, Tesseract's drummer Jay Postones recently did a sweet metal-oriented walkthrough and a remote mixing session, with Acle Kahney showing him some awesome tips to get certain sounds and all that. It's got a bit of a price tag, but having the mic bleed alone to play around with is such a great tool for bedroom producers and even professionals who just can't be arsed to get out into the cold anymore. And honestly, those libs were great even ten years or so back, you can get some of the crusty Roland e-kits from 15-20 years ago to sound like a million bucks compared to what the same price tag will get you in terms of acoustic sets. On top of that, it's just a huge skill to develop for musicians, programming drums and any other instrument, that is. It's the difference between having learned a language as a kid or having learned how to teach languages from the ground up, and I can't think of any situation where I ever went "oh, I wish I had fewer things to show to people" - never mind the benefits of it coupling with your intuitive playing.

@TheKey304 2 года назад

I've really been trying learn how to get those ghost hits to sound just right. This is such an awesome vid to have. At least till one day when we can work with a capable drummer!! Awesome vid!! Cheers and F#&@ you sooo much, Glenn!!🍻🤘🤘

@MalikEmmanuel 2 года назад

where are you located that you cannot find a capable drummer?

@TheKey304 2 года назад

@@MalikEmmanuel not many options in the Appalachian hills where we are. Not too many metal fans, period in this neck of the woods lol. Mostly your Seether/Shinedown/Breaking Benjamin crowd. just now our vibe. Hell FM rock radio is still a thing here in WV🤣🤣.. no worries though. We've gotten more accomplished in the last 6 months than we did in the last 6 years once the remaining 2 of us decided to handle it all ourselves🤘🤘

@jeremythornton433 2 года назад

I am definitely buying Henning's course!

@tatman5780 Год назад

Dayum! Henning just mic dropped on god!!!!!! Henning has got to be my favorite guest you've ever had!

@NeverWillWeRest 2 года назад

You guys are hilarious together and have great chemistry in front of a camera. I see a spinoff show in your future. Take a look at the Grand Tour guys, they have separate shows that do great but when they get together they each bring something to the table that produces great results. Free idea you can run with: Since Henning is in Germany, and the Nurburgring aka Green Hell is a thing, Doing a 7 minute mix in the back of a Porsche would be hilarious and nauseating.

@davetbassbos 2 года назад

That does seem like a great idea to have a live drummer right there going back and forth with the drum programmer.

@idiotburns 2 года назад

You guys are the best!!!

@reverendprophet 2 года назад

That Ibanez SR bass at 1:42 is beautiful.

@annekedebruyn7797 2 года назад

Maybe a fun challenge: tune the drumkit/guitar with the slowmo cam. You can see much difference between the smaller and the bigger toms. I wonder if you can tune it that way by seeing how fast it goes up and down

@MykEviiL 2 года назад

Next coming up Heavy metal challenge Glenn vs Henning!!! Who can write the heaviest metal piece!!!

@timharrison7582 2 года назад

Anyone who can bust out a Galaxy Quest reference is considered metal in my books.

@peevee605 2 года назад

Felix is killer. One thing which grid never gives us is the ability to take the tempo down a couple of BPMs to make certain sections come alive. Jeff Porcaro was the master of such. Great episode!

@seanyiscubsfan1 2 года назад

Hey Glenn. Love your work and your brutal honesty. I know you’ve complained about Gibson and the QC issues their instruments are having but have you ever had one come into the studio that was actually reliable? Anyway have a great weekend and cheers from Chicago.

@JimmyBackbeat 2 года назад

I've come to realise that I absolutely need robot drums. Programming midi gets so boring for me it insta-kills the creative urge. I wish that I had the drive to program them though, or had the space and skills for a mesh kit

@violenceisfun991 2 года назад

I have the same issue. I used to use an electric drum kit but someone stole it. Now when i try to program drums i get sick of the song after spending 20 minutes on one beat. Something i do to counter this is to download dozens of drum tracks and then cut them up into loops and lay out the structure of the song that way

@zachw2538 2 года назад

My 2 cents : i have a ton of midi loops. I'll find the loop that's closest to what i hear in my head and use that as a base then "fix" it to what i want it to actually be. It can cut out A LOT of time

@peterm.souzajr.2112 2 года назад

im not just a professional heckler, im also a customer, youre going to like the way you program

@kowalguitarlife9119 2 года назад

right on awesome work gguys....

@apfelmistnutte 2 года назад

Love the dynamic you two sillybirds have haha

@billmccaslin4198 2 года назад

Love the vid.

@eljuanchosf 2 года назад

Came for the course, stayed for the banter.

@mikekloepfer7424 9 месяцев назад

I purchased the course..... Excited to get into it! OMG he has a 'GLENN IS WRONG' coffee mug! lol Love the sense of humor.

@Gueli 2 года назад

I wanna see the "Who's more metal?" between these 2 guys

@f.a.s.mmusic1262 2 года назад

Man this cut is radical maannnnnn

@kyblitz8093 2 года назад

Damn we early

@5p00k7 2 года назад

Yo where all the metal heads at?

@LadyNicola 2 года назад

Wow. Sometimes the thing your looking for, just arrives in time. 👍😎

@Joey.Darkwoods-Studio 2 года назад

Great episode guys!! lol

@violenceisfun991 2 года назад

8:50 makes me think of Reel Around The Fountain by The Smiths

@TheZanger 2 года назад

Ok now we really need the G&H rock’n’metal comedy show for sure!

@steevidrums 2 года назад

Henning's stuff sounds great!!! (I get it's just ribbing for ripping's sake..) but still want to say.

@PooNinja 2 года назад

3:25 I’m sold!

@markmeloney2643 2 года назад

GLENNNNN! what are your thoughts on recording straight from the fx send on an amp and adding an IR afterwards? It seems like it would get better results than using cheap mics in a crappy sounding room for us mear mortals.

@flockytheram6426 2 года назад

Glenn I will steal your likeness and sell bootleg action figures of you at my leisure. I think I'm dying, I have nothing to lose anymore.

@mobilox 2 года назад

Felix Lehrmann is one my favorite drummers.

@ernstmosh 2 года назад

Hi there, Glenn! I´m relatively new to all this "digital" kind of music, i admit, that i´m kind of an analogue dinosaur. But your vids helped me out quite a lot getting more familiar with this topic. It´s still intimidating for me, too many options, no limitations-so where to start? As a keyboarder i dont want to part with my trusty, old 80s workstations, but i bought myself one of these tiny midi keys last year and must admit: it changed my mind and boosted creativity. But all of this intense Computer usage still freaks me out. Could you- by any chance-do a vid about DAW-less recording methods? Or alternatively "Getting into Digital music Making for Noobs?" Thx a lot, love your channel!

@neilsnow7644 2 года назад

Dude! That "Heavy Metal" shirt is fucking badass! Also, one of my all time favorite movies and one of the best soundtracks of all time. When I converted to CD's back in the early 90's this was one of the first I bought. My tape was nearly worn out. Now kids are like..."wtf is a CD brah?" Lmao I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck a Bieber is! Probably an alien. Yup. An alien.

@sundialmusicproductions2346 2 года назад

IMO, the ideal way to record drums: use a capable drummer playing a v-kit where each component triggers sounds/levels from a comprehensive DRUM KIT plug-in (SSD or SD or even GA). That way you can record the intent of the drummer, then make micro adjustments to each hit's timing, level or voice/sound.... leave in ghost notes or take 'em out or adjust their levels... quantize certain notes, or not. As a producer/mixer you have TOTAL control over the finished product. Cubase (even the lower tier versions) also has an awesome MIDI editor for drums when the MAPPING function is used. Just my opinion.

@edelcorrallira 2 года назад

Dam it Pauly, my wallet hates you! Got your previous course and it freaking rocks. Still working through it (I like to put everything into practice and tend to take the longest). Really happy I got it, and now ... I want your new one too One thing, what are your thoughts on addictive drums? Havent seen you mention those. Good discount on them on plugin boutique (and on EZ Drummer as well at toon tracks and Drumforge on their website... Well most things are at discount today heh) Hope you take a peek some day. Anyway both of you are freaking awesome and now saving up for R2Drum2 - the sequel

@alexpagodin5947 2 года назад

This is why Logic's drummer feature is a great jumping-off point. Sure, it's not going to be able to replicate super complex kick snare patterns or generate the best fills for YOUR song all the time, but that's the point of putting some human effort in to get it to sound great. Point is - it's already got rhythmic idiosyncracies in the velocity and timing department.

@mikal 2 года назад

I use EZ Drummer 2, the little brother of Superior Drummer 3. Way cheaper. Obviously SD is better, but if you don't have $300+ for SD, EZD is only $70 for Black Friday weekend, compared to the normal $130.

@Kiaran249 2 года назад

That intro is catchy asf

@chrisdover8507 2 года назад

Yeah I don’t think Bob Clearmountain or CLA would be saying 80’s drums were dry. Strange

@redcomn 2 года назад

Glenn is making fun of his buttrock stuff lol 🤣🤣🤣

@taybuffetxvx 2 года назад

Anyone else having problems adding this course to the cart? It seems like the webpage isn't quiet developed.

@sawyercustom 2 года назад

That man has a great sense of humor, you bust his ballz so hard.. ROFL

@MrCarlzohn 2 года назад

Felix is a fucking beast. Fantastic stuff

@ivsiguitarist 2 года назад

He was rocking an Ormsby Hype....he's ok in my book!

@luckylanno 2 года назад

Glenn: "metal is about attitude" Henning: *proceeds to disagree with extreme attitude*

@christophernunez6802 2 года назад

So good

@michaelkoenig6317 2 года назад

But I do get better because of hanging out with you @ Glenn @ Henning. Gosh I could have saved a lot of money… with that Black Friday full pack…. never mind- JE REGRETTE RIEN!!!! It’s for a good purpose 🤟

@Hugodoys 2 года назад

I really want to get into these courses since its almost impossible to get a drummer... whos able to record him... whos able to get to recording on time.

@mitchmcturtle6890 2 года назад

Just become the drummer Hugo. It’s your destiny. You don’t need to find a drummer because you ARE the drummer.

@irishrocker2150 2 года назад

German reviews have one go to. No mercy. I knew this was going to be the clash of the day

@Bound_And_Skinned_Official 2 года назад

Please please please do a what truly affects bass tone

@protoolsfanatic7276 2 года назад

for us bedroom basement writers superior drummer 3 or steven slate drums is a goldmine for writing new material. if i need real drums i just send session from pro tools to my drummer friend.

@lurchaudio4075 2 года назад

to summarize, the secret to a heavy kick drum sound is to CUP THE MIC

@williamharrison54 2 года назад

I think glenn needs to use some of those sweet sweet patreon dollars and buy a copy of ezdrummer (or something else), and do a fearless gear review on it after watching hennings course. Put your money where your mouth is, programmed drums are not whats wrong with modern metal production. You dont have to quantize everything to death, and you can program your tempo map to speed up/ slow down where a drummer would.

@tyronegordon8985 2 года назад

Don't bother it's like talking to a wall, the discord is even worse

@mad7stringer 2 года назад

What happened to the recording heavy drums series that was supposed to be every Saturday, I mean every Monday lol. Still hoping for a kick drum processing tutorial using the aixdsp plugins :-)

@SpectreSoundStudios 2 года назад

Tomorrow!

@mad7stringer 2 года назад

@@SpectreSoundStudios Awesome.... thanks for the quick response Glenn :-)

@brandonbuxton8960 2 года назад

Inspiring

@PeanutButterAM 2 года назад

Surprised he didn’t use trigger or a digital set to capture everything. (Could be done after the fact possibly as well with a good audio to midi converter). Love the idea. I’ve been using MPC’s for about 20 years+ and I’ve always done way too many micro tweaks to make it sound “humanized”. 🖕🏽💪🏽🤘🏽

@andresdur 2 года назад

can somebody give opinion to Hydrogen drum machine?

@AMSOfficial79 2 года назад

Programming drums is easy, ladies and gents... and the secret is this: VELOCITY. changing the velocity of your drum hits/bell rides/bass drum hits/hi-hat work, etc to reflect the dynamics of an actual drummer is all that you need to do. Also, don't us pre-made loops; use a piano roll-type feature to program every single drum. You get ALL the control you want and need. It might be tedious, but the results are better than real drummers most times because it is hard to find good real drummers with dynamics PLUS a real studio to record in. You are WELCOME. I saved you time and money. I figured this out 20 years ago on Fruity Loops piano roll and I am surprised it isn't common knowledge by now.

@MrMOGHammer 2 года назад

there is more to it than just velocities. The most accurate and best drummers on the planet do not play all notes on the grid, most of the time no notes would be on the grid, always slightly off, because that is how human approach natural music, in contrast on how a program approaches everything with a robotic, binary, on/off way. Programmed MIDI just sound flat and lifeless even if you try to vary the velocities unless you also "humanize" it on the tempo side of thing to make it groove, feel more alive.

@aspirativemusicproduction2135 2 года назад

I tried converting guitar audio to midi and that play midi as drums. It's not impossible but it isn't exactly as easy as I assumed.

@Projacked1 2 года назад

Is the image flipped, or has the session guy his snare on the right?

@violenceisfun991 2 года назад

Might be left handed

@nikolatomic5287 Год назад

i do a pretty good drum machine. reason: i play guitar and played drums way back. so, i still remember the theory.

@sadbug 2 года назад

Is that not the guy from @mathologer ?

@dunga. 2 года назад

This was absolutely hilarious. If you've seen more then two of Glenn's videos, you should know why this is funny as hell.

@nootron9 2 года назад

I've been using EZ Drummer since 2013, and am quite comfortable using it with no desire to upgrade to EZ Drummer 2... can anyone make a strong enough case as to why i should upgrade, or even try a different drum production tool, or do most of you think that if something suits your purpose well enough that you should simply stick with it. anyone's thoughts? anyone?

@Lethargy01 2 года назад

I can't! If it continues to work for you, use it! I went on a buying spree last year after using Slate Drums 4 for a few years. I bought EZ Drummer, Slate Drums 5 and Getgood Invasion. The one I use most by far, Slate Drums 4. Unless there's something specific you're looking for or your software needs to be updated because the old version is no longer functioning, getting something new may be a waste of cash.

@nootron9 2 года назад

@@Lethargy01 great points! a voluntary change for me might be inevitable at some point, because i could very well simply decide to try something new... i've had my eye on Superior drummer, but thanks to your comment i'll check out Slate too.

@williamharrison54 2 года назад

Do the newer ezx expansions work in ezdrummer1? If not, thats a pretty good reason. The drums of destruction ezx has a lot of stuff in it like a second hi hat on the right side and a few splash cymbals.

@MrClassicmetal 2 года назад

@@nootron9 If you've been using it for so long and you're comfortable with it, it would make more sense to upgrade to EZ Drummer 2 IF you have to. Superior drummer does have a larger library and you have more control, but the question is whether you really need all of that stuff. You'll often find yourself wasting time with the minor details instead of being making music. 🙂 It reminds me of one of those virtual amps that I bought a while ago. One of the marketing points was that it could simulate a crapload of amps. Ok great, but I didn't like that majority of them, and I was wasting a lot of time tinkering with the various amps instead of actually making music. In any case, I use EZ Drummer 2 myself and I quite like it. It's very easy to use, and it allows you to get going in no time. I never used the older version, by the way.

@CantKillACowboyTX 2 года назад

I upgraded to EZdrummer2 this year, and here are my reasons: 1. New EZX kits don't work with EZD1. There are people I want to work with in a variety of genres, and a lot of the kits I would use for those projects are incompatible with the older version. 2. The UI is a lot more user friendly and makes grabbing MIDI beats across the packs a whole lot easier. 3. The built in Song Editor makes fleshing out an idea SO much easier! Obviously, you would want to dive in and make the patterns more human and relevant to your song, but just to get started with a workable drum part makes it so much smoother of a process. Those are some of my reasons for upgrading after 9 years of using EZD1, but if you are comfortable with it, stick with it!

@kelvottomatpelaajat3797 2 года назад

I mean, having R2-D2 playing drums live in my show would be on my bucket list. 😐

@chickenlickin3820 2 года назад

so its just midi mapping, no drum samples??

@SpectreSoundStudios 2 года назад

Correct. It’s a course on how to make it more human sounding

@aspirativemusicproduction2135 2 года назад

One day there will be software that's going to program itself? Maybe? That's going to be cool. You play a riff and the software make up some drum parts. Imagine never to have to deal with programming drums.

@myopicautisticmetal9035 2 года назад

Take the piss all you like, Glenn, Henning kicks ass.

@joerojas5448 2 года назад

Henning, I got nothing but love for ya, but I have to side with Glenn about needing an attitude for Metal. Even in Hip-Hop there an attitude. That's how you make good music, Attitude. And good course by the way.

@russellszabadosaka5-pindin849 2 года назад

Glenn is a Veteran Of the Psychic Wars.

@channingsmith7859 2 года назад

I agree with everything except the thumbnail. R2 has more soul then all of us!!!!

@shadehunter 2 года назад

I was the 10th view. Dunno if I've ever been this early on a Glenn video.

@jordanjackson6151 8 месяцев назад

Playing specifically: guitar, keys and bass (shredded in that order), It's true that a real drummer is better than a bot. Jamming live with drummers that use no laptops or triggers of any kind has shown me that.