@@scottgrey2877 Based on the context provided in verse 28 in KJV, what do you understand verse 27 to mean? “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world to go back to the Father.”
@@scottgrey2877 ahh so you’re trying to understand the exegetical language “brought forth”. I’m sure you know that the text in proverbs is describing Jesus personified as wisdom, so before creation, God’s Wisdom was there. Let me ask you how was Jesus birthed from God? Does God have a womb? Not trying to be funny but just want to understand your interpretation and what you mean that God birthed Jesus.
@@scottgrey2877 I think we’re working our way to a common ground here since the Father’s person is eternal. Although I’m a little confused on your use of the term “person” here. Can you please elaborate what it means to give “birth out of His own person”?
@@scottgrey2877 well let’s review the Bible’s definition on terms. John 1:18 “no man hath seen God, the only begotten Son which is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” So the Son is IN the bosom of the Father currently. Let’s compare this term in another scripture. Luke 16:22 the angels carried Lazarus to Abraham’s bosom. 1 John 16:28 Jesus “came forth” from the Father, He was “brought forth” into the world, but look He also leaves the world and returns to the Father. So what is your understanding of what the Bible means that the Son is IN the Father’s Bosom and what does it mean that He was brought forth? You have not explained this. This has to be properly explained not asserted otherwise it shows you don’t understand what you’re saying.
I was shocked a Jehovah's Witness brought up this Scripture to support that Jesus was a created being and in fact an angel. The tone of Proverbs 8 (and 9) is clearly not prophetic. Solomon takes a very poetic way of describing things. The subject of Proverbs 8 is wisdom and understanding. Proverbs 9 continues the discussion of wisdom. To extrapolate that Proverbs 8:22 is representing an actual person does not add up. As well, we know by John 1:2 that Jesus created all things, including the world. We know as well that Jesus calls Himself multiple times the Alpha and and Omega in Revelation, this is a title directly referencing one of the identities of God in Isaiah. And so, after reading the chapter for myself after a JW pointed me to this passage it can not infer that Jesus was a created being nor that He is an angel.
There's a interesting scripture in Mk. 1: 3 It's a quote from Isa.40:3 " Make ready the way of the LORD (Jehovah) make His paths straight" NASB this text shows Jesus is Jehovah would like your thoughts TY
1 Corinthians 1:24, 30 and Luke 11:49, telling us directly, that Jesus is identified as the “wisdom of God”. And it' very easiy for anyone with their spiritual eyes open, to see the connection, in that Jesus was the "worker" at God' side, in through all things were made. The church fathers directly cite these scriptures as the basis of their authority and theology,. Therefore, one need not embrace the "church father" understanding of "eternality", because this teaching predates the church fathers as is seen in the NT, and as it cited by themselves to be so. In the oldest version of the Proverbs 8 (Dead Sea scroll and Greek Septuagint) it says "God created me" verbatim. It is therefore my opinion, Proverbs 8 speaks of the creation of Jesus, though it wouldn't be the only verse. The issue with the later fathers, is that they began to adopt Greek metaphysical and philosophical definitions of words, and began to tie "substance" into the whole thing, as the basis of their "Jesus is eternal" teaching, which the Bible is silent on. But many of them also said "Jesus is the first created Wisdom" (Justin Martyr, Origen, Eusebius etc), not all the fathers, such as those like Irenaeus, thought he was eternal. “There is, and that there is said to be, another god and Lord subject to the Maker of all things who is also called an Angel”. - Justin Martyr "For we thus understand “I begot thee before the morning star” with reference to the first-created Logos of God and similarly “thy name is before sun” and moon and before all creation.” - Clement of Alexandria, Excerpts from Theodotus “...since they did not understand that this was said of Wisdom, which was the first of the creation of God.” -Clement of Alexandria, Stromata Book V, Chapter 14 “There was, however, a time when neither sin existed with Him, nor the Son; the former of which was to constitute the Lord a Judge, and the latter a Father...” - Tertullian, Against Hermogenes, Chapter 3 “We consider, therefore, that there are three hypostases, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; and at the same time we believe nothing to be uncreated but the Father.” - Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, Chapter 6 “...the first-born and first-created wisdom of God, the pre-existent Word himself, induced by his exceeding love for man, appeared to his servants, now in the form of angels, and again to one and another of those ancients who enjoyed the favor of God, in his own person as the saving power of God, not otherwise, however, than in the shape of man, because it was impossible to appear in any other way.” - Eusebius of Caesarea And there are many more. But for brevity, I'll stop there. But if we do want to use the "embrace the church fathers" reasoning, then we can equally embrace these above said quotes also. I think Jesus is the literal son of God who was "created" by him, as per the LXX and DSS versions of Proverbs 8, as is directly quoted by the early Christians, but his "manner" of creation, be that begetting, producing, creating etc, I do not presume arrogantly.
@Proselytizer of Yah Great quotes. I think the big issue is whether we're willing to accept a broader possible range of definitions for the word translated as "create" than what we tend to use it for. If it simply means "cause to be," then it's perfectly compatible with eternal begetting. But as you point out, we don't need to understand it exactly. -Lynn
Yes Irenaeus believed Jesus is Eternal. But the Son has been eternally co-existing with the Father. From of old, yes, from the beginning, He always reveals the Father. Irenaeus (c. 180, 1.406. For not only before Adam, but also before all creation, the Word glorified His Father, remaining in Him. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.478. For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things. He speaks to this one, saying, "Let Us make man after Our image and like-ness." ... I have also largely demonstrated that the Word, namely the Son, was always with the Father. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.487, 488. He was with the Father from the beginning. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.489. He is prior to all creation. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.526.
Jesus like all human beings, are composed of three parts: body of flesh, soul and spirit. As David Bercot poitns out in his Soul and Spirit message from what the early christians understood, the spirt is what gives us our moral ability i.e "to walk with the spirit produces the fruits of the spirit". The soul is the decision maker whether to choose to walk with the spirt or the desires of the flesh, due to our bodies hating pain and loving comfort makes us vulnerable to evil spirits that mislead us to "walk by the flesh" which easily leads, through choice of pleasures and comforts, to work unrighteousness and even impurity. Human beings have spirits that are created by God and so are angels (Hebrew 1) created spirits. Jesus was prophesied to be born of a virgin, the seed of Abraham and through him, came King David. David was promised by God that his seed would sit on his throne eternally and be the Son of God. 2 Samuel 7:12-13, 1 Chronicles 17:11-16, Psalm 2:6-8. So his humanity ABSOLUTELY WAS CREATED... at the time of conception in the virgin. HOWEVER... as I mentioned in paragraph one above, the big difference with this human being is that HIS SPIRIT was not created but rather was BEGOTTEN from God, just as fire begets more fire if someone applies a torch and the original fire is in no way diminished, yet now there is a 2nd torch, so was Jesus' divine Spirit begotten and having come forth from God. When God spoke, the LOGOS (Greek for spoken utterance of logic and reason) came forth from him. This WORD or spirit that is WISE (Wisdom from Proverbs 8:25) went forth as God spoke in Genesis CH 1 and created ALL things in the BEGINNING as John 1 says. Jesus is said by Ignatius of Antioch 107 AD, the disiple of Peter and John, that Jesus was both created and NOT Created but begotten. The confusion comes when someone just focuses on his Spirit, which is divine, or just his humanity which was created.
ahahahahaha -- could yu please show ME your spirit - if in reality yu really do have one - or your soul - whatever that may look like - I would love to see it -- I have never seen one before in a human -- I keep hearing people talk about souls and spirits -- the bible even says that birds and animals have souls - or they are souls - did yu not read those verses -- if yu had a spirit - yu would be a being of light as well as a being of flesh -- lets see it ------- yes I know -- yu speak of what yu know nothing about -- Revelation 3:17 -- 17 “You say, ‘I am rich, with everything I want; I don’t need a thing!’ And you don’t realize that spiritually you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked. - if yu did have a spirt as yu claim -- yu would have already seen Jesus -- because it is said - he already has one himself -- and yu would have already seen angels and demons -- that is the place they are said to exist - Ephesians 6:12 -- For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against persons without bodies-the evil rulers of the unseen world, those mighty satanic beings and great evil princes of darkness who rule this world; and against huge numbers of wicked spirits in the spirit world. -- people are being led by gods spirit - or satans spirit - but to my knowledge - no human has one of their own -- it is said - the Almighty has given some a tiny spark of his spirit - so that they could have spirit life to help him with -- but to my knowledge it was to the ones he sent Jesus to - to introduce himself as the owner of such spirit that was to be given - even the faith / spark of spirit that is -- of a tiny mustard seed could MOVE mountains -- can your spirit do that -- humans -- sure are an odd creature - just as JEH has said -- Jesus got everlasting life from some where - a spark of gods spirit - called a lamp at some places - but yu people who have spirit bodies -- has it taught yu anything yet - as it says in the bible -- 1 Corinthians 2:14 -- But the man who isn’t a true Christian can’t understand and can’t accept these thoughts from God, which the Holy Spirit teaches us. They sound foolish to him because only those who have the Holy Spirit within them can understand what the Holy Spirit means. Others just can’t take it in. -- when god sends Jesus to yu - to give yu some of his spirit -- yu will no longer have to guess at what the bible really teaches -- the holy spirit will bridle yu up for instructions -- as it says in the bible - John 14:26 -- But when the Father sends the Comforter instead of me*-and by the Comforter I mean the Holy Spirit-he will teach you much, as well as remind you of everything I myself have told you. - Souls -- living souls - ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth great quantities of creatures with living souls and fowl that may fly above the earth upon the face of the firmament of the heavens. -- even animals are said to be living souls - even though a lot of translations changed it to beings that have breath - nefresh is the word they were trying to interpret - which means air breather - Plato started that false crap - he thought it would intrigue people better - soul means our psyche - who we are to ourselves - our soul - the very core of our being in existence that we know - Nephesh - comes from a root meaning - to breathe - Read - Koehler and Baumgartner's lexicon in Veteris Testamenti libros 1953 ed - pg 627 - a breathing being ---- TRICKS are being performed -- as in this scripture - Genesis 3:13 -- Then the Lord God asked the woman, “How could you do such a thing?” “The serpent tricked me,” she replied. -- if God does not give yu some of his spirit -- Yu have none -- except this - spirit - those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period: -- "the university is a symbol of the nation's egalitarian spirit" - all without gods spirit in them - will stay blinded -- His main demand is discipline - There will be No crazy undisciplined humans on new earth - they will be removed pretty danged quick -- That is what they are doing now -- if following simple directions are too hard for some now - they need to move out of his way - so that those who have that amount of discipline can take their place in Gods forces - I am not sure there will be shopping malls on his new earth - nor beautiful new cars either - those things will not be what we enjoy about ourselves -- get It ? ! @ # * -- and Jesus - Gods son -- was Created by god himself as his First of creation - which was in the original letters before the Catholics got their hands on it - Tricks - with translations -- have been the roman Catholics greatest achievements - the ones who wish to Rule the world - the ones who worship a woman - or women - as most obey their mothers - because of what their fathers will do if they don't -- Jesus's spirit is only used to please / serve his father - that is the reason he was given it - those with spirit not serving YHWH - are already thrown out of his heavens - and await their demise - Revelation 12:12 -- Rejoice, O heavens! You citizens of heaven, rejoice! Be glad! But woe to you people of the world, for the devil has come down to you in great anger, knowing that he has little time.” - and by the way -- satan and his demons - had spirits - and did what god had told them not to do - satan was the strongest and most beautiful - and was in charge of all of gods creation - at one time - and is even now being removed from gods creation - and is being replaced by his son Jesus -- and will be In charge of all things - as was santa / satan - being led by the spirit - does not mean yu own one -- it is part of satan's tricks ! # *
and yea - I rambled a bit -- ahahahahahaha - sometimes it just does that -- ahahahahaha - 2 Timothy 4:2 -- to preach the Word of God urgently at all times, whenever you get the chance, in season and out, when it is convenient and when it is not. Correct and rebuke your people when they need it, encourage them to do right, and all the time be feeding them patiently with God’s Word. - I should have never said yes -- ahahahahahahahaha - inside joke
GNT - 1 Corinthians -- but for those whom God has called, both Jews and Gentiles, this message is Christ, who is the power of God and the wisdom of God. --- all humans are flawed -- So as for me -- I would never take all of what one people have said -- people for some odd reason -- mix things up after hearing what someone has said - I myself - have done experiments on that very subject - I would think that early christians had no better understandings - than people of today have - at least some - some want Their version to be what is true - ahahaha - spoilt children sor-ta-speakin --- try this -- In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - one god - John 17:5 -- And now, Father, reveal my glory as I stand in your presence, the glory we shared before the world began. - John 5:19 -- Jesus replied, “The Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing, and in the same way. - learns from his older father - KJV - And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; - a lot of translations have it worded a bit different - some people demand they know god better than anyone else - so they change things to their liking - as do most of us -- I however -- don't really care what the bible says - so I am allowed to see and to understand a bit more of it - Jesus saves is all i needed to hear -- he does it for his fathers sake - they will work out the total salvation plans on new earth - 1 Corinthians 8:6 - But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created all things and made us to be his own; and one Lord Jesus Christ, who helped make everything and gives us life. - and I am one who has no religion -- even though i was born a witness in a Baptist church - a primitive church - who learned their understanding from the anabaptist - even though they all change things to their liking also - Among the Anabaptist groups still present are mainly the Amish, Brethren, Hutterites and Mennonites. In the 21st century, there are large cultural differences between assimilated Anabaptists, who do not differ much from evangelicals, and traditional groups like the Amish, the Old Colony Mennonites, the Old Order Mennonites, Old Order River Brethren, the Hutterites and the Old German Baptist Brethren. - The early Anabaptists formulated their beliefs in a confession of faith called the Schleitheim Confession. In 1527, Michael Sattler presided over a meeting at Schleitheim (in Schaffhausen canton, on the Swiss-German border), where Anabaptist leaders drew up the Schleitheim Confession of Faith (doc. 29). Sattler was arrested and executed soon afterwards. Anabaptist groups varied widely in their specific beliefs, but the Schleitheim Confession represents foundational Anabaptist beliefs as well as any single document can ---- and JEH - after seeing just how bad so-called humans were at following instructions -- he put his created son into play -- training humans to be unlike animals - and be able to be trained - with tons of discipline - Which are lacking in most humans even to this day it seems - it is quite boring to be all discipline - stunting the spirt sor-ta-speakin - ahahahahahaaa -- So we rebel - to get the real facts - ask god - in spirit and truth - some claim they have a spirt - dont know where they keep it but - they should bring it out of hiding and use it to learn from the spirit world - as they claim they are living as a spirit - ya know -- something sounds real ODD about them having a spirit - spirits are said to be very magical - said to be able to move mountains with their powers -- ODD stuff - John 20:17 - Jesus said - “Don’t touch me,” he cautioned, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them that I ascend to my Father and your Father, my God and your God.” - so Jesus says he has a god - the word god - means creator - In monotheistic thought, God is usually conceived of as the supreme being, creator ---- I always thought that god needed another to confide in and to talk to - so he created a son - as do all beings that exist - they create offspring -- Hope this fits in - in some way - and hope it may help -- ahahahaha
Hello Mr Bercot, I have often listened to you and liked your videos; but for some time you had to be out of your way. Especially since you're attacking Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't know what grudge you have with them, but it will eventually consume you. You seem to take more into consideration the writings of the First Christians than the Holy Scriptures themselves, and you like to quote these theologians who are sometimes right, sometimes wrong in their doctrines... The Sound Doctrine of Christ is found in the Bible. The sound doctrine of the apostles is found in the Bible. You take the Church Fathers as a reference and you ignore the fact that Jesus says in the Gospel of John in chapter 14, verse 26: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I have told you." You don't even believe that the Spirit of God still teaches us, yet it is one of the signs of the last times, announced by the prophet Joel, but by Jeremiah before him: the Spirit of God is given in the times of the end for sons and daughters to prophesy, the old to have dreams, the young to have visions. But Anglo-Saxon unbelief makes you reject the Spirit of God to cling to a shaky historical faith; Doesn't the Bible say in the book of Daniel that in the last days knowledge will increase? Why do you teach us with authors who have less knowledge potential than we have today? I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, but the Bible is clear on the Nature of Jesus Christ; you stammered an explanation of Colossians 1:15 that even a kindergartner would find flawed. And you know you've got it all wrong, because Jesus Christ, Himself, in Revelation to John says He's the beginning of God's creation (Rev 3:14), then He says again He is the Firstborn of creation. Tell me, when we say that a child is the firstborn of a family, we say that he has no beginning? Hebrews 1:5 says, "For to which of the angels did God ever say, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you?" when we say "Today" isn't it that yesterday you weren't? Tell me, what are you doing with Hebrews 1:9 which says, "You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore, O God, your God has anointed you with the oil of joy above your equals/similars/companions (according to the biblical translation) who are the equals, or the likes, or the companions of Christ? Because the Bible can tell you... Jesus said in Revelation to John, "I am the bright morning Star" and in the book of Job it is said that the "morning stars"(angels) clapped when God was creating Earth ; do you see the connection? Please, Mr. Bercot, reconsider your ways, otherwise all the work you have done since the beginning of your ministry will be a waste of time! The trinity is an alien doctrine that neither Jesus nor the apostles taught. And the Bible clearly says that Jesus had a beginning, whether you like it or not! Reconsider your ways, otherwise you are going to your loss! May God help you!
@Cyrille Simplice For a long time, David has had a longing to help the JWs. He grew up in that setting and appreciates many things about it, but he wants to see them come to a truer understanding of Christianity. Now that he's getting older, he feels it's time to share some of his teachings especially with them. So, no, it's not a grudge. I can tell that it comes from a deep love of them. And our church gives full weight to the Scriptures. We also live in continuity with the early church. But only the Scriptures have authority. -Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel I ‘m not sure you are teaching only the Scriptures. I challenge you to explain the verses, coming from the Scriptures, that I gave in my comment. Verses that contradict your understanding of the Nature of Jesus.
@@SoundFaithChannel because they are following only the teachings of the Watchtower, the Jehovah Witnesses are wrong in many things, so are you either. By following only the teachings of the Early Christians you are wrong in some critical doctrines of the Christianity but you don’t want to open your eyes. May God helps you see where you are wrong and repent. Because you will lead a lot of people to the destruction if you don’t do so.
@Cyrille Simplice This isn't something I've looked into deeply, but I'll suggest some answers: - That Jesus is the firstborn of all creation could make it sound like Jesus had a beginning. But "firstborn" often has the idea of preeminence, since an elder son got the birthright. So it doesn't necessarily mean that. - We teach that Jesus is eternally begotten from the Father, so he's begotten every day. So to say he was begotten "this day" is true every day. - The word you're translating "equals" apparently means "companions." As a spiritual being, the angels are of course God's companions. I'm sure you're aware that there are plenty of passages that show that Jesus is divine. It's all throughout Scripture. -Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel of course Jesus is Divine, because He was created for a purpose: to do the Works of the Father. Proverbs 8:22 in the Septuagint says : God created me the beginning of His Way, to do His works. Do you think the Almighty can’t create a Divine being ? So if throughout the Scriptures we can see Jesus is Divine, we can also see He is created. It is even written black on white and even a child will notice that. This is happening to makes come true this Scripture : You hide these things to scholars but shown them to children. So, keep going your ways, denying what is written!
I have to ask why does proverbs so many times refer to wisdom as a she, and you say it's a he, is not the Fathers wisdom been with him from the beginning wish He created all things with his spoken word and done with wisdom. Lets see why satan chose eve because women seek wisdom, listen to the words satan said. There is no substance to believe massiah existed from creation, only as a love in the Fathers bosom. If massiah was eternal now everything that was happening in earth for 4thousand years, means Jesus had all that preparation time to give his life that is not how I see it, in the garden befor his death, did he not sweet blood and tears, that my freind is human, not someone who had that period of time to prepare. Yes you can quote, colossians 1:16 but you miss the previous verses that say. 13, who has delivered us form the power of darkness, and has translated us in to the kingdom of his son. 18 and he is the head of the body, the church, who the beginning, the FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD________so colossians is talking about the resurrected man Jesus, all things are created a new through him by him. Most of the preexisting thoughts come from John 1 you see the word beginning and you refer it to creation fist mistake, john is all about a new creations Jesus the fist of many Brothers. If you read John one with the spirit you will see the word is the word the father created all thing with his spoken word and spoke to the Fathers of old and prophets. Verse 2 denies vers 1 is creation by saying the same was in the beginning with GOD. his spoken word he spoke thing into existence. Vers 3 the word is called him because it masculine 4 in the spoken word is life and light. who is the light source the father right. 5 same 6 now here is where you have to ask why is that verse there, because it sets the time frame john is referring to.7,8,9 that was the the true light, who is the true light, light source, the father right.10 in the world made by him. 11 he came to HIS OWN. who's own can not be Jesus he has no own only the Father at this stage right. 12, 13 the Farther, 14 so the word becomes flesh. how because now the the man Jesus spoke the word of his Fathet scripture says it over and over, Jesus said the word I speak are not mine, and the works it is me Fathers who tells me what to speak and do.
@Frank Immers But John 1 says the Word was God and that he was in the beginning with God. That strongly implies that Jesus was not created. After all, did God the Father begin to exist? So if Jesus was with him in the beginning, Jesus did not begin to exist either. -Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel yes it says the word was God. Let's look at what word you are talking about. The father spoke his word to the Fathers if old and to prophets in veris ways, if we go through the scriptures Deuteronomy 18: 15-18 you will see the Father spoke saying, I will raise a prophet and put my words in his mouth. So that prophet was Massiah the man born of woman. If we look at Jeremiah 1:2 to whom the word the Father came. Now watch how this ties together with john 1 and 2 through these scriptures leading up to Mathew. In Ezekiel 1:1 the word. Hosea1:1 the word. Joel 1:1 the word. Amos 1:1 the word vers 2 says he speaks the Fathers word. Jonah1:1 the word. Micah 1:1 the word. Zephania1:1 the word. Haggai 1:3 the word. Zechariah 1:1 the word. Malachi 1:1 the word. So clearly the word was God been with God all the time, his spoken word witch he created all things. the mistake we make is following mans traditions the trinity is false. Let me also help to see what beginning john is speaking. Mark 1:1 the beginning. Luke 1:2 the beginning. Acts 1:1 its say began same meaning. 1john 1:1 beginning. 2john 5 and 6 beginning. And comes the punch colossians 1:18 and he (jesus) is the head of the body the church, who is the BEGINNING, THE FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD. You see john is talking creation language because he is explaining a whole new creation acount. Jesus the fist born if many Brothers, every thing from his resurrection to this day is through him by him because the father sat the resurrected man at his right hand on the throne of David. Not a literal throne but the authority has been given him to rule the nations. You to are a new creation in christ if he wants. Colossians is all about the risen christ. Colossians 1:16 many use to prove falseness. There where thrones or dominions or powers in genesis time. The last word in that sentence, though him by him the new creation Jesus. I now also that Hebrews 1: 5 and 13 say of the angel said at any time come sit at my right hand. So Michael the ark angel is ruled out.
Christ existed before the incarnation. Father and Son already had the plan of salvation, and redemption worked out before creation. "And all who dwell on the earth will worship him (beast) whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev.13:8 Father and Son had an arrangement. The Son would come for the work of the cross, He would preach the gospel to the living, and the dead in Sheol, and the Father would not leave His soul in Sheol, nor allow His body to see decay, rot, corruption. Son, Speaking to the Father. "For You will not leave My soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. " Ps.16:10
@@mattmurdock2868 psalm 16:10 is a prophecy spoken by David. When Jesus came up out of the Jordan his Father gave him the spirit, now the man Jesus is born from above and that is why massiah said I am not of this world because he is no longer doing the works of the flesh, but off his Father who abides in him. There is no substance to what you say. Emanuel God with us in his new son born of God by spirit.
@Frank Immers But I don't think you've answered the issue. John says, "The Word was God." So Jesus was God. And "The same was in the beginning with God." So Jesus was in the beginning with God. How is that not eternal, since God is eternal? -Lynn
