PS!Outertale: the Most BORING fangame 

Phew, got worried for a second

Well, glad to see that there’s improvements now :)

I got high hopes for the full release,the concepts for the routes seem promising,with better gameplay its definitely going to one of the best fangames ever

I am surprised at how much patience you have to even try to explain this. I would've just typed "Das crazy" and continued working on the game lmao

This should be pinned.

but space is cool af, the excution just has to be good :) maybe it doesn’t even need to follow the undertale story, be a lil different yknow have fun

Those fangames like TS'underswap or this are about showing the game a bit differently. Ts!US is pretty nice, as it was really different from UT or even the normal US, because it switched characters like US, however it still kept the personalities they had in UT. There are a whole bunch of ways that this fangame could be different, entertaining, but the creator/s decided to make it almost normal undertale.

@@petero_yt4713 You'll have to wait until the full release then, or playthrough the demo yourself heheheh. This video doesn't actually show the true nature of PS!Outertale since it goes off of an outdated demo. There's way more unique stuff for the game then what's presented here.

@@Turbulation1 Im planning on playing the game itself, but i really wish it was better. It's not BAD but i wouldnt call it above average.

@@petero_yt4713 Well first off, don't judge it based off this video before playing because it's far better in the Area 4 demo than how it's presented here. You may change your mind on it being above average.

Yeah like there's so many possibilities for different environments with the entirety of space itself, its such a waste to not use the idea of space rather than stupid space stations

@@SourWine789 here, even i can come up with something more space-related than a lot of stuff in ps!outertale, it would be cool if omega flowey was like a giant eldritch creature mind-controlling the 6 human souls, and the finale part could be flowey throwing you to a black hole but the souls break free and try to help you out of it, so flowey desperately attacks you, and then you safely land onto some moon. Also, remember how the omega flowey battle has the red warning things before each soul phase? Well, what if outertale's version of that was some message like "lost connection with main base, reconnecting immediatly..."?

@dylanzlol7293 that sounds awesome, I love the idea of Flowey being something similar to cthulu. And maybe the different areas can be based on actual planets, Ruins can be based on Earth itself since it's the first basic area, Snowdin can be based on Uranus the coldest planet, Waterfall can be based on the Moon since the moon pulls on ocean waves, and Hotland obviously can be the Sun.

@@dylanzlol7293 I don't think you should rag on PS!Outertale like that when you haven't even seen the full extent of what were working on for it. There's going to be quite a lot of space related stuff for the full game, and you'll see the justification for why it's on a space station instead.

So true,rooting for the full version to have this kinda stuff

That has to be the best description of monster dust i've ever read

​@@mohamadparadox2453Non-vegan sugar

He always does, he has some very weird and specific tastes

inferior snowgrave

I mean, yes evil routes in games can still be fun (just killing anyone like in a sandbox like fallout can be enjoyable), but I think you meant more so "evil route in the UNDERTALE game' as that is more fitting.

@@hiddenflare6169 Yeah that’s basically what I meant.

@@hiddenflare6169 Eh? I think snowgrave is pretty fun, or am I crazy?

​@@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051 For me personally the entirety of Weird Route's Queen Palace was such a bore, it's unironically my least favourite thing in the game

@@NeclirGo I think Deltarune's combat is inherently more fan than Undertale's combat, thanks to this, I found Queen's palace to be alright and not annoying or boring.

What is the pacifist variant ?

@@Ink_Akane_Kurokawa It's a version of the Pacifist Route involving the narrator that's quite spoiler-y, and I'd recommend waiting for the full release before playing it. It can be accessed via some secrets in the Outlands.

@@ARandomSpace ok

You don't get to see sans killing people at least in CANON dusttale

dusttale sucks ass and so does every dust au

True

if you think dustcringe is better than ps!outerpeak i genuinely do not understand

@@marioluigibros.8176 he likes to see people kill people

Fr

Fr

hello dementio

Very fun, isn't it?

Game saw your dimentio pfp and thought his name was dementia

I think you're a bit overreacting ,_,

@@NightmareArbuser The truth deserves to be partially put out there. And either way it will all work out in the end.

@@NightmareArbuser how can you say that when you don’t know what OP is reacting to?

He just finds outdated content like the fanon dusttale game to hate on it and believe everything in there is canon to the au/take tbh

@@BelBelle468 It's literally so obvious.

He's gonna critic every fangame you like extremely harshly and you can't stop it

I agree (in terms of utmm games) and disagree (in terms of svc games)

Only not boring UT games are probably Undertale Multiverse Destruction, Sans Multiverse Remastered, Eternal Star and uhhh...I forgot it's name There was a game that you could fight enemies with your friends, sometimes enemies are "corrupted" which are stronger with better rewards and "corrupted" Toriel was Queen Toriel What was it's name?

I think you're searching for UT:SA

Any utmm game is boring

Well i know a promising deltarune roblox game called Delta Worlds its very interesting so check it out if your didnt😊

It was literally the same as Undertale

@@MrFell. Yeah, but it gave an outer/space feel. I kinda just wanted more out of undertale at the time this games demo came out. From what i can remember, i had a goofy smile on my face the entire time.

@@tailz69420 Welp, at least there are other fangames right now that would fulfill that feeling you once had.

@@MrFell. Eh not really. I'm more of looking for a fangame that is actually completed that has effort put into it, even if the story is shitty or something.

@@tailz69420 undertale yellow

to be fair we got 3 banger fan games basically back to back, most people are still on the high of ts under swap and yellow

@@QuayeEPICGAMER which one is it that you mentioned besides tsswap and yellow?

​@@hipxel8918 Deltatraveller? Altough I didn't find it as good as uty and TS US tbh

@@Diego-iz7mloh I like delta traveler,I can not wait for the third chapter

@@Marcuskwok-hn5yi hate to break it to ya, but section 3 is already out, you can play it

I guess am in the minority that doesn't like the Asriel stuff that much. (I just find the Asriel writing and/or the way a creator talked about Flowey to be kind of strange. I bring up the latter thing, because the way they talked about Flowey just, wasn't really true of Flowey, and makes me worry some more for the Asriel writing in the game). I think while it is interesting, that it makes very little sense for Asriel to be how he is, esp. since he has a SOUL still. Like yeah, I do agree it is interesting, I am not sure how much I actually like it or not. I find it a bit weird.

He should have at least tamen the new demo instead of a old one, or you know, waiting for the final demo with the polish stuff. - A lot of things he was talking about were fixed in the Arialisis demo or will be fixed in the Citadel one, areas got some redesigns, red ruins, hologram trees, a better sky. - A lot of dialogue and events were rewriten betwen the Arialisis demo(area 4) and the new one being worked(area 5), he just isn't seeing it because of saying the area 3 demo

@@ViniciusDiasissy true

PS:For a geno i hope they do different bossfight for characters like papyrus,would love to see paps putting his all into stopping you,instead of (accidentally) getting Sans´ as a temporal meat shield.

god no

@@r-yv5uz What is wrong with sharing an idea dawg.

I have seen OT and/or etc. takes that do have the different zones be different planets, moons, etc. It is a very interesting and cool idea. Also, why Paps and not Sans or Alphys? Saying that, Paps could be cool (too).

@@Dragon_Aoi I don´t know,i just want something different w/paps,though thinking abt it Alphys could fit more.

thing is, this IS only a concept. this is an outdated demo from over a year ago. the literal page says: "Note: The currently released Aerialis Demo is unpolished, and does not reflect on the quality of the upcoming full release. If you want the best first-time experience, WAIT FOR THAT!!! Otherwise, proceed with caution."

And this isn't even the Arialisis demo, It's the foundry, you can see the ruins are grey, when they had a redesign some months ago

Knowing this, I wanna hear your opinion on AU's, such as Inverted Fate.

@@Asksalot_VeryCool really good, at first it may seem like a underswap au, but Flowey remembering the resets is what really changes it. - I really love how papyrus stays with Frisk for all the jorney instead of a certain skeleton that doesn't protect Frisk in the og game. - It also really feel nicer, both Asgore, Sans and Alphys letting Frisk have a normal life there, only Undyne being the exception. - Talking about Undyne, I lover the whole "she can reset" things. - There's also that Arg in that computer with all the passwords, showing scenes and lore we didn't saw before. - Not forgetting how Chara is always there as the narrator and friend to Frisk - I really love how character arcs are, and I can't wsit to see how it finished

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

@@davidmoris5446 AND MUSICS INSPIRED BY THE NAPSTABLOOK MUSIC IN UNDERTALE

its not scrapped wdym

It'd actually fit since, y'know, cyan soul is patience

zax spotted!!!!

@@ArceTheTroll You found me!!!!

@@zaxentothegreedy7816 indeed!!!!

*you should check it out if you didn't, this is the correction

Best AU ever It's near completion, rest of Rift episodes will release and Rift 11 will be Asriel fight I wonder what they are cooking

I watched a gameplay of it,its pretty alright,weird how he only starts sweating at the very end

"I Really Wish I Wasn't Here Right Now" from Undertale: Nihilism Its literally how it's called, no cap

It's that the guy got the Foundry(waterfall) demo, instead of the Arialisis(hotland) demo, were it had a redesign of the Outlands and also new ideas, like Mk actually knowing you're a human, and the Arialisis demo is also outdated, the new one has a lot more stuff

@@ViniciusDiasissy FR did you know you can do classic genocide without asriel if you spare toriel?

@@friskandcoplay580 yeah, technically speaking is a neutral, but because monster react more in this game like Undyne having diferent fight dialogue and Alphys leaving, we really do have more stuff to do

One which will be mediocre at best

There is plenty of stuff u can do w/ this setting though. I have also seen this to be case with some Outer fan stuff.

@@Dragon_Aoiyes but my point is they’re expecting some big change in the characters and story when the only thing that changes is the atmosphere and location. Point being stop expecting everything to be undertale yellow or tsunderswap.

This was a old demo(area 3) instead of the new one(area 4) or even the one being worked right now with the final area. - The outlands(ruins) got a small redesign being more red and stuff, starton also had new tilesets and decorations, that and all other areas will have a better design in the future. - And if you're meaning the writting and stuff instead of the design, the team also made a lot of stuff of little improvements in it, like putting that horrable math puzzle in a side path

Asgore??? (The reason why they killed off Sans is because of how popular he is and the amount of Sans fangames, the creator really doesn't like how popular he is)

@@Doot_the_skeleton Those aren't exactly the reasons why, partially related to his popularity but that's not the extent of it.

t191-up4sy the self sacrifice is amazing don't get me wrong there, does change up things

All the other ways that Sans could have saved Paps without letting himself get killed are also good points. Like with using bones, blue magic, even Gaster Blasters, teleportation (funnily enough Sans does use teleportation to help save people in TS!US), etc. Also, agree with ur comments quite a bit. I have made my own comments that also talk about how poorly I thought they handled Sans’ character and his death. Sans and/or Paps should still be written well and given focus and stuff, and not, well, not, just because of their popularity. Which is not the characters’ fault like u said. Besides them just being awesome characters. Anyways, I say Sans and Paps were poorly written and were very out of character. But I mainly mean Sans’ death scene and some of the stuff that came after it with Paps. Sans was also handled much more poorly in that scene than Paps was during and/or right after it imo. Though Paps could have been handled somewhat better too probably. Anyways once again, pretty good comments. Agree with a lot of what u said.

I don't think Blue magic was ever shown to give the person 100% control of one's soul and only change the gravity around them, Sans pushing away Papyrus using it would basically fling Papyrus into a wall or smth. As for the bones, they're probably weak, based on the fact we never see Sans use them in their fight to block incoming attacks, sides, if bones were able to resist a hit, there wouldn't be much concern about Paps getting one-shot. So, in my opinion, Sans blocking the hit was reasonable.

Clipchamp,dont use it tho it kinda sux

This was a old demo(third area), if I remember it correctly, they already fixed his dialogue to not be like a cartoon villain like Flowey, as you know, he now has a soul

The guy is making this video of a really old demo of the third area, this game already goes into the fourth, and the final one is almost done. Mettaton neo is actually a real fight in the game, not only that, the ruins and other areas had some small changes to make them flash out more. And the game isn't boring, I had fun with a lot of stuff, spaceship minigame, having Mk as a party member, a lot of new routes like the flirt/bully route, napstablook having more focus even having a store and more

This video is really harsh for a oldated demo from over a year ago, they should at least taken the newest demo avaliable

Excited for all the routes variations and/or choices too. That can be cool to see in UT stuff and stuff. Good luck to the PS!Outertale creator on completing the rest of the game. Last update I saw from the creator, showed they were almost 90% complete! So close, that is awesome.

Sans is actually not as apathetic or depressed as you may think in PS!Outertale. So his characterization here has reasons for being this way.

Why is he less apathetic and depressed though? Like it isn’t just the time stuff that cause that. But also because he has lost people, because he can’t get back (whatever that is), and the things he worked on and/or tried to fix, he couldn’t, Luke the machine. Stuff of his being undone, because of time stuff, etc. Then there is also the time stuff. He knows about the amalgamated and DT stuff too. Which also further affects him; like Alphys. But we’ll, in some different ways. I’m not saying he can’t be less depressed and apathetic though. I just hope there is a reason why. Like how TS!US gives a reason why. Though he is still very morally gray in that like he is in-game. And probably just as detached, if not more so. And etc. I’m not saying it had to be exactly like TS!US; of course not. I just hope for a reason; like how TS!US gives a reason. Also, Sans being depressed, apathetic, and/or nihilistic aren’t the only reasons why I wasn’t really a big fan of that scene. I also said I didn’t think it was very smart of Sans, for the reasons I gave. Which makes Sans further out of character for me in that scene, because of the reasons I stated , because again kind of, being smart is one of Sans’ core traits. I also don’t like Sans not having a fight in a Geno-type route, but that one is more of a personal/subway be thing on my part. Anyways…, my point is Sans being less nihilistic/depressed/apathetic aren’t the only issues I had w/ that scene. Like I stated in that comment (heck, I think I talked less about the things u mentioned, compared to the other stuff I talked about), and repeated and talked about even more in this comment. Overall, his scene did still make me sad, and I like some of the stuff Sans and/or Paps said. But besides that, I didn’t like it that much. And I kind of hope that scene is very different are just replaced with something else in the full game. But I know and would understand if that couldn’t be done or the creators just didn’t want to. I’m still gonna be excited for the game, but I am still gonna remain disappointed about this and stuff, if the scene and Sans and Paps’, mainly Sans’ character remains the same. And/or at least it is hopefully decently well explained why he is characterized so differently from the game. At least in this scene. (I don’t mind a character being a different take or having a different interpretation from me or from the norm. Or having different characterizations sometimes. It can just depend on the reasons and how it is done. (Which, in the case of PS!Outertale with this scene. While not the worst I have seen of Sans dying for Paps; I also wasn’t very fond of it either personally). Still excited for the game though. And I am sure u and other creator(s) worked hard on it, and are continuing to do so.

@@Dragon_Aoi the sans death scene will be altered in the full release to give him a better reason for stepping in, I’ll say that much And you’ll see why he’s less depressed in the full release.

Fine. I still think him deciding to let himself get killed is not really something Sans would do and dumbs down his high intelligence. But if u could give him somewhat of a better reason why, then I will hopefully be less disappointed. Because as of right now, I am not liking some of how Sans and Paps are being handled. Also happy that there will be at least a reason why Sans is less depressed and stuff. But again, will also be waiting to see how well (or not) that is executed too.

Sans doesn't have the same personality though. They write him completely out of character (just to seemingly kill him off) and make a very smart character, dumb at points. They are also play up Paps' nativity way too much, making it so Paps also, gets off killed off way too quickly and way too easily after Sans literally just died for him, in front of him. Which, also makes Sans' death completely pointless (which, Sans would have had enough foresight to realize, Paps could still get killed, even if he died for him. Because he literally has strong foresight and intelligence, like that, in the game). Like, I know Paps can be spared at that point, but the fact that Paps can still be killed, and so quickly and stuff too after Sans just died for him, is just, not good to me. Makes very little sense to me, how I will see some comments saying it is too similar, because it is literally just Undertale in space, when they actually have made changes, including to characters, some of them not good, some fine. Also, there is a lot u can do with Undertale in space. I have seen a lot of cool Outertale or Outertale combined with other AUs and stuff takes.

@@Dragon_Aoi I'm talking about the canon au not the fangame since I didn't play it I think I should had specified that

@@antoniomartinez4737 Ah, I see.

One response

I don’t think the point is entirely invalid. I mean, if I wanted to play “Basically Just Undertale” in terms of dialogue and character…I could just go play Undertale for a slightly less puzzle-filled experience. That said, the people in the comments also have a point. Outertale has basically always just been “Undertale But Space”, and I feel like expectations deserve to be slightly lowered as a result. It ain’t trying to be Yellow.

Apparently Sans’ characterization is very different (I made some comment about this), considering his death scene, at least, and considering someone who worked on the game (I think) said he is less apathetic and depressed for reasons (I say reasons, because I don’t know what those reasons actually are). So it’s not really the same characters in space then, is it? Also, u can still make the characters feel in-character, while having new dialogue and stuff. Just depends on how u do it and stuff. Just look at different swap takes, or fell takes, fellswap or swapfell takes, and etc. they can be very different from each other, and still quite different from Undertale too (though they are still based off of Undertale. And how different they are from it can differ. Honestly, I don’t mind AUs and stuff that aren’t too different from UT, because UT is awesome. But there are also a lot of cool, unique UT stuff. Including cool Outertale or Outertale combined with other AUs. Like Fell or Horror. Stuff). It honestly just depends. I think there is a lot of creative, cool stuff that can be done w/ Outertale and/or etc. stuff. Which the game sounds and/or looks it may have in some cool things like that. Like some character stuff (though, I am not a fan of all the newer character stuff. Some of it seems interesting though), environments, and routes and/or route variations. So that is cool.

There are new stuff, like Mk being a party member, new napstablook and the ghost cousins interactions and more. - but the thing I love the most about ps outertale are the routes and actions, our actions have a lot more consequences. For example, in undertale, we could kill 50+ monsters, but we would be treated normally with Alphys saying she watched us and want to help, in here, Alphys and mettaton just never greet you in a dark neutral route, theses and other stuff really make the game stand out. - Another thing about choices are the new flirt and bully routes, a cool thing to the game - The biggest problem is that this video is from the old third area demo instead of the newest fourth area one, were a lot of his problems were fixed, update to areas, one with made some puzzles as a side path, and new dialogue and events. - And in the last update, there will be even more area changes(one puzzle will not be active in pacifist) with new decorations, new dialogue and events and more. - Us his fault he took a old demo instead of a new one, It's also his fault that he is saying the demo is bad, when there's a warming on the page saying is outated and a lot of stuff changed

He used Demo 3; it is not like he used Demo 1 or 2. And do agree there is interesting new stuff, but there is also bad new stuff too. Like having Sans, a very smart character act dumbly and completely out of character (I went over many reasons why Sans sacrificing himself and taking the hit for Paps are just things he usually he wouldn’t do) just to kill him off and not give him a proper Geno fight. And then his sacrifice can be in vain too, because Paps can still himself killed:v very early on in the game if u decide to kill him. Despite Sans literally dying and taking a hit (even though he has blue magic, bones, GB’s, teleportation, imo Time Stop powers too, etc., so he honestly really didn’t need to do that honestly) in front him. Which I’m sure Sans would have the foresight to realize. Like, u know how TS!US protected Paps, by purposely keeping Paps away from the human, and making sure they don’t meet on Geno/Ruthless. He also gets Paps to trust the human less, so Paps will be more likely to stay, or to at least be more on-guard and less trusting of the human. This is smart, this much more something like Sans would do to protect Paps. So anyways yeah, Paps got somewhat dumbed down (and/or I don’t thus his nativity was used as well as it could have been) too in this regard in PS!OT too imo. There can be cool changes and cool routes and choices and stuff, but if the characters aren’t treated well and respectfully and aren’t written in-character and/or at least well; like the stelebros, then all the changes, routes, and route variations in the world starts mattering a whole lot less. Like I’m still excited for the routes, route variations, and choices, but I a less so now, because I got less hope the characters will be treated and written well compared to before when I was more excited for the game. I’m also excited for the changes, but worried, but some of the changes; mainly character ones just aren’t that great (how he skelebros get treated and handled at times) Or don’t make much sense to me (I find the stuff with Asriel and what he can sometimes do and help with interesting, but it is also kind of weird too considering he does have a SOUL. Even if u are trying to use more of Flowey’s traits with him. Saying that, this is at least kind of interesting, even if I find it a bit odd). Anyways, still excited for the game, but since my criticism for it stem more from a writing and character writing basis, instead of a a decent amount of stuff BasedGuy mentioned, where he mostly talks more about somewhat more minor writing stuff and puzzles - which honestly on the latter thing, I think this is more subjective - and maps (which can probably be more easily fixed). I don’t how much of my issues are even possible to fix for the upcoming full release (which is disappointing, but understandable) or will even be seen as issues in the first place. So yeah, I’m still somewhat excited, but my hopes and excitement are considerably lower now.

Many mods, but it's split across the three grand aus

There are new stuff, like Mk being a party member, but the thing I love the most about ps outertale are the routes and actions, our actions have a lot more consequences. For example, in undertale, we could kill 50+ monsters, but we would be treated normally with Alphys saying she watched us and want to help, in here, Alphys and mettaton just never greet you in a dark neutral route, theses and other stuff really make the game stand out. Another thing about choices are the new flirt and bully routes

The biggest problem is that this video is from the old third area demo instead of the newest fourth area one, were a lot of his problems were fixed, update to areas, one with made some puzzles as a side path, and new dialogue and events. And in the last update, there will be even more area changes(one puzzle will not be active in pacifist) with new decorations, new dialogue and events and more. Us his fault he took a old demo instead of a new one, It's also his fault that he is saying the demo is bad, when there's a warming on the page saying is outated and a lot of stuff changed

You can actually spare him (oh, and this is a old demo, Asriel had some dialogue changes so he isn't just Flowey with a body)

"I Really Wish I Wasn't Here Right Now" (thats literally how it's called) from Undertale: Nihilism

@@This_Guy_Exists thanks bro you a life saver🙏

Sans being the final boss is perfectly cool and great. I personally find it strange to get tired of it, but that is ur opinion. I thought the Geno route was one of the worst considering how poorly Sans and Paps were handled in that route, and how Sans was killed off. And Paps was killed off pretty dumbly too, considering how he just watched his brother die for him in front of him.

@Dragon_Aoi tired of it was bad wording, its just nice to see new characters being the final boss is what i meant. yeah sans and papyrus deaths were kinda dumb but i really liked the whole asriel idea

Funny, because they took a old demo, when the new one fixed a lot of stuff they were talking about, and the one being worked on fixes even more stuff, areas had graphic changes, even more coming in the new update, some puzzles are in side paths or deactivated in pacifist, and dialogue was rewriten and more

There are a lot of new stuff, like Mk being a party member, spaceship minigame, new napstablook and the ghost cousins interactions and more. - but the thing I love the most about ps outertale are the routes and actions, our actions have a lot more consequences. For example, in undertale, we could kill 50+ monsters, but we would be treated normally with Alphys saying she watched us and want to help, in here, Alphys and mettaton just never greet you in a dark neutral route, theses and other stuff really make the game stand out. - Another thing about choices are the new flirt and bully routes, a cool thing to the game - The biggest problem is that this video is from the old third area demo instead of the newest fourth area one, were a lot of his problems were fixed, update to areas, one with made some puzzles as a side path, and new dialogue and events. - And in the last update, there will be even more area changes(one puzzle will not be active in pacifist) with new decorations, new dialogue and events and more. - Us his fault he took a old demo instead of a new one, It's also his fault that he is saying the demo is bad, when there's a warming on the page saying is outated and a lot of stuff changed

Indeed

'Respectfully though, this game is meant to be a "re-experience" type of game, recreating the Undertale Experience while also adding and rearranging some things as well! Not everything needs to be overwritten and made entirely different. Otherwise that may undermine or defeat the purpose of a "re-experience." Some things such as character personalites and even story factors in writing are sometimes best left the same or at least similar for the sake of nostalgic purposes! Not everything can be flashy and fully new like TS!Underswap or Undertale Yellow, but other things can qualify a fangame to be good! I can see where you come from on some things regarding the subject however." I don't really think this is a good excuse, esp. for a game that actually does change drasticlly about chararacters and relationships. And not really for the better and/or just as good ways imo. Like, Sans, Paps, Asriel, etc. Like, I get the point ur making, but it is just not a good defensive for PS!OT, esp. the character(s) and "re-experience" part. Also, part of what makes TS!US great, is that it actually feels like an UT game, and the characters are actually pretty accurate (except mainly for some change caused by the swap). And they do that, while also doing a lot of new things. I am not saying fangames have to be like TS!US or UTY. They should still be their own thing. Saying that, I understand and do agree w/ a fair amount of the points u make in ur comments, except for some here and there.