👍👍👍 unfortunately I think those working on the US side for the prisoner releases have got sucked into the whole notion of ‘romantic suffering’, which is a particular weakness of the Russian intelligencia.
@@SiliconCurtain No! The families, people connected to the hostages lobby the President and he gives a crap! We have healthy empathy, whereas RU has zero! They don't care for their own citizens! RU has sent back dead POWs without their organs!!
Thank you so much for this eye opening discussion! As a Brazilian that fully supports Ukrainian victory and complete Russia’s defeat, there are severe limitations on which details I am able to catch in situations like these so, again, thank you for educating me on the details. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
It came to me as no surprise that the first message our liberals sent to the world was to lift the sanctions off Russia. What they have in common with Putin (and with the majority of ethnic russians) is the notorious russian imperialist mindset. They are just like Putin in so many ways and are equally dangerous for the free world in a “sheep-in-a-wolf’s-clothing” kind of way. Never trust russian liberal opposition.
Volodymyr Zolkin has years worth, many hundrds of completely accssible interviews with "everyday Russians" who are not against the war. Is returned prisoners activists should be asked at every opportunity whether they have watched hundreds of these interviews. They must be asked to comment on Zoin's BRILLIANT body of work. It's just as important as asking them to comment on of the body of work of a Russian novelist. In fact, I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't bring him up in this discussion. Also, what do they think about all that Russian money being given to Ukraine for their military and rebuilding efforts? They need to be asked that every time as well. Do they think that money should go back to the wonderful Russian people they love so much? One last point: it's absolutely essential that we witnessed a public debate between Ilya Ponomarev -and other Russians who agree with him- and these returned russophiles. I hope you will schedule one! Last but not least,You guys are all "totally awesome"!
Thanks Jonathan. Mr Sumlenny was very eloquent. As he said, it was not an exchange - it was paying a ransom for hostages by freeing FSB criminals. We might come to consider this as an error. Western governments should be clear that they will not do this again and their citizens should not expose them selves to risk of being taken as hostages by travel to Russia. Semlenny makes good points that well-known opposition figures have been helped before the ordinary Ukrainian children abducted by the Kremlin, and that the Moscow opposition has a vested interest in maintaining Moscow's empire so they have an imperial bias. The West should be very cautious about listening to them. I suspect that the culture of passive-aggressive victimhood and Moscow-centrism permeates Moscow culture so much that the 'opposition' are infused with it, even while outside Putin's lands, which means their views are distorted by it. Frankly, at the moment they are irrelevant and merit little attention. Ukraine trying to improve its defences after 2014 is not comparable with Russia's vast stockpiling of arms, including those taken over from the USSR. Vlad Vexler commented yesterday that we should not view politics as an identity issue requiring 'purity' of thought, and learn to accept that others say and think things we disagree with. Vlad suggested a possible political line the opposition could take but I think that line would not work now or indeed for years. So I try to consider their comments without casting the Russian 'opposition' into the outer darkness. The opposition is not political, so is failing now in practical politics. It may be unreasonable to expect anyone to have fully developed strategies just after being released, after years of manipulation by the FSB. Maybe their views will evolve after they reflect further, and then merit serious consideration. But, if the freed opposition figures believe that the people of Russia have no responsibility, so should be sheltered somehow, then the opposition are endorsing the non-political avoidance by the mass of the population. We have seen very little sign of popular protest against the war and all polls indicate widespread passive endorsement of the war. At the moment, the Kremlin can recruit soldiers with financial incentives so people are volunteering actively to participate.
Even suggesting there should be a question mark over Ukraine improving its defenses while fighting an ongoing defensive war against Russian aggression is playing the game by kremlin rules. It was Russia that used the Minsk agreements to rearm and continue the war. Not Ukraine.
He can get hunderts hostages when he wants, thousands of western citizens travel regularly to Russia or still live there. Are we going to do the same again and again? Send FSB agents back home in exchange for Russian citizen which were captured without reason or foreigners, which dunno smoked a joint and got 10 years gulag for that?
@@user-jp4lt7xu2g 6 months old account, 57 disparaging/aggressive comments on this channel...it's so obvious, you're a troll. Do you really have nothing better to do with your life than spreading lies and propaganda?
@@user-jp4lt7xu2gAs, clearly, do you my friend. Since precisely when were we supposed to give credence to anything that the Kremlin, the FSB, or more to the point Putin, promotes? In over 60 years I cannot remember many of their statements or undertakings that proved to have an ounce of veracity when held up for inspection against the facts.
@@user-jp4lt7xu2g u have the hallmark style of zero-imagination which usually means cheaply-paid ru-troll (how's life in a shit-hole place going for u? And what does it feel like to have to hide your name, like a rodent crawling around the internet?)
Operator Starsky said some interesting stuff yesterday, that made sense regarding Kara-Murza’s statements about sanctions, based upon his own interactions with fellow Ukrainian soldiers who he knew well prior to them spending time in Russian captivity. It certainly bolsters the point that they were fed a rich diet of misinformation whist incarcerated.
Well KaraMurza's wife was touring Europe and the US and constantly repeating how "innocent" russians should not face sanctions. She was never detained to be brainwashed. This is russian mentality, always play victim, take no responsibility.
@@ginniemess This, plus they think that everyone owes them everything, while they don't owe anything to anyone. For someone who was freed against his will, Yashin seemed very jubilant on the airplane before he decided to play up to his russian audience.
@@nancyflorida9863 you have no idea, you are not in their position. Even if it were logically sound to only sanction Putin et al it remains practically impossible. Kara-Murza et al know this. Putin has put the entire country in service of the war. But we have to remember Kara-Murza et al are speaking to two audiences. Like Navalny they need to gain favor, trust and respect of other compatriots to overcome fear of Putin. It's basically geopolitical "good cop/bad cop" I think it is an important part of waking up people so they realize their collective power is greater than Putin’s regime and they needn't remain passively nor actively complicit. Remember they also called Putin a murderer and usurper and repeatedly denied his legitimacy while in and out of captivity. Let's be a little more capable of nuance. These guys are capable of incredible nuance after years of torture and abuse and poisoning.
@@ayoungethan You insult my knowledge and then you try to educate me through a word salad. Try harder, vatnik. I understand them without a need for a translation. You sound like an apologist for impotent useless russian opposition.
As a Ukrainian i understand why Russian opposition does not vocalize their full support for Ukraine and condemnation of Z-ideology. If they would do so it would immediately cross out any possibility of political career. Overwhelming majority of Russian internal opposition is still pro-war. Only those who were born in USSR could fully understand this mentality and my English is too poor to try and explain it. They just feel good when their country is at war with someone. It distracts them from everyday problems.
They do not have almost any backup anyways. Most russians from provincies will suport only bloody wankers. They take freedom, democracy as evil thing. At same time due national mentality they blame any other country for any failure. They never regret or excuse for anything they did. So freedom and liberalism ideas have no future in russia.
One of the best episodes you've done. Great guests excellent subjects and excellent questions... Thank you Jonathan 😊 Ukraine will win. Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦 ♥️
Gentlemen, you are doing outstanding job ,fighting on information front for Ukraine, which is not a single time less important than actual battlefield. Big THANKS and appreciation from AFU soldier !
I had to listen to this episode twice. I feel disguisted and sad at the same time. Sad because it confirms there is little to hope for from the Russian opposition. It also tells us that there is no other way forward other than ensuring a victory for Ukraine. Hoping that opposition and/or regime change would free Ukraine without military strength forcing it, is just hoping for the impossible.
Unfortunately, by some reasons the hosts chose to distort what the Russians said. Basically they are calling for Europe not to build the Iron curtain, Putin does it in his own interests, so why to help him? If Russians don't have access to information maybe it'd better for Europe to help them? If they don't want to fight against Ukrain, may be it's reasonable to let them get out if Russua?
@@pavelsharkov5893how long does the war last? hint: it didn't start 2022. If so-called 'ordinary russians' did not find ways to get their unbiased information in 10 years, they are ignorant by choice, as the majority of Germans were during third reich
Thank you SC for building our cognitive resilience with these great speakers, who decode what has gone on behind the scenes leading to the released prisoners' comments.
Thank you for the clarification. What a bizarre situation. Literally an fsb virus has been unleashed in the guise of a prisoner exchange. May the truth win out..Слава Україні
Thank you, Jonathan, for such a insightful discussion. Sergej nails it, discussing how Russian dissidents are no friends of Ukraine, and how taboo any support of a Ukrainian victory is.
Excellent guests, again. Brilliant host, as ever. Thanks for centering Ukrainian perspective (as it is the innocent party that is defending itself against russia's illegal aggression) and not falling for bothsideism. So rare these days! Would love to see both guests appear here more often & individually.
The late Ukrainian dissident and former RU army general Perto Grigorenko (who had singlehandedly defended Crimean Tarars and was kept in a psychiatric prison for that) has written a book whose tille summarizes the spirit of RU opposition: "In the underground, one meets only rats".
yes but as an american myself, we can only tell them to keep the faith if the only military that can actually assist them ultimately, ours, is in active training ourselves as well as them, for a potential coming series of battles that will likel do some degree of demilitarization of RU. We americans are the ONLY backstop militarily, in case anyone here still doesn't know what the european capabilties.
@@RadomDude-t2w I am from Germany i blame our german politicians. There is a quote "Wandel durch Handel"... This basically means good economic relationship will change politics and make countries come closer. Putin is a soviet KGB and Germany politicians thought he can be changed to a better man through economics
Thank you for the conversation. I am from Poland and I thought that I am alone with feelings that this prison exchange was horrible mistake but fortunately not. These three interviews are shocking and disgusting. In turnout to be that such thing as good Russian does not exist. Slava Ukraini 🇵🇱🇺🇦
They do exist - they're the ones fighting on the field with Ukraine, the ones giving intel to the GUR, the ones that "accidentally" set fire to strategic objectives. But the loud, "liberal" Russians, concerned with an easier life in the EU? Nah, they're not what we're looking for.
I cannot believe that Kara-Murza said the sanctions should be relaxed to help the Russian people. That's unacceptable. I want to hear Bill Browder justify that ridiculous statement. Here's your hero, Bill. Go Ukraine! 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 Ignore traitors like Kara-Murza.
Its good cop / bad cop political theater. It means the sanctions are working and KM et al need the favor of fellow Muscovites to depose Putin and restore freedom of expression and make politocal dissent legal again. Calling for more hurt does not do them any political favors and plays into Putin's narrative that they are paid stooges of the West. They are casting doubt on that narrative. My god the West is so completely and utterly naive.
Insightful conversation! ❤ I agree with the extremely lopsided exchange of prisoners. Hostages versus Russian murderers, cyber criminals and real spies. German prisons are designed to treat prisoners humanely and replicate the outside community, unlike a Russian gulag. Prisoners in Germany often have their own rooms, private bathrooms and phones. Correctional Officers knock before entering cells. US citizen Marc Fogel, arrested in 2021 for possessing medical Marijuana for back pain is deteriorating in the gulag, his sister said. Taken to a Russian prison hospital and being injected with who knows what. Fogel taught English in Russia for 10 years, but doesn't speak Russian. 😔 Russia has become a hostage taking country like Iran, China and N Korea. Wonder if Russia will start taking Diplomats hostage, as Iran did, for 444 days during US President Jimmy Carter's administration.
Common Russian people support the war or are compliant. I have a distant relative who was born, grew up and lived in Eastern Ukraine till her 20's when she married a Russian and moved to Moscow. Her mother, father, and brother are all internationally displaced in Ukraine. When I asked her what they are going to do if her husband is sent to fight in Ukraine, she told they were getting ready buying necessary kits etc, and "I'm not interested in politics".
That's such a standard line. When my friends in the US tell me they aren't " interested in politics" I tell them, that's a shame because " politics is interested in every aspect of your life".
@@lindakelley2676 i usually tell "even if you aren't interested in politics, it's interested in you, and you may not like the result, but it's gonna be too late for you to change it"
Well, you should understand that there is a lot of propaganda in Russia. People who are more naive believe it. I personally know plenty of people who oppose this war.
one more point- Please watch Kara-Murza closely in the press conference. In Russian, he seems at first believable, but watch when he switches to his (extremely fluent) English, and tells the tale of how he refused to sign the documents. Am I the only one who felt that he was lying through his teeth? All kinds of subtle facial and body language signals flared up, and he suddenly came across as untrustworthy. Watch it. I very much doubt their tales of bravery and refusal to sign anything. As Kara-Murza mentioned, families are threatened, and I have no doubt they are under instructions to deliver on certain committments.,,,or...as with Navalny, family members will suffer, or even Krasikov can be sent back by Putin , to deal with them
Good stuff again. Love this channel for looking at oblique angles! I agree Moscow will always win any bargain, it’s their MO. They don’t do compromise like us. They have to get more out of it than you. Like a pawnshop psychology applied to foreign policy.
Let me provide some historical context for you. Iliya Yashin is most likely a KGB/GSB officer, he has proven to be part of Kremlin information war long time ago. When Nemtsov was killed, Yashin went to Chechnya and gave a mock press-conference to put pressure on Kadyrov, kind of accusing him indirectly of killing Nemtsov. And we all know that Nemtsov was killed by Putin, and Kadyrov was only used as an escape goat to diffuse the whole tension around this horrible murder. So, Yashin played Putin's game in this case, and he was not even arrested in Chechnya, which shows that he was protected from high offices. Further, Yashin never supported Russian volunteers who support Ukrainian army and he was always against any armed confrontation against Kremlin.
Oh, and he also worked in the recruitment committee in one of the Moscow voenkomat's, but not just any , specifically one that was famous for recruiting mercenaries to fight as russian proxies in Donbass.
@@TheCouchCommando I think so, yes. He has been very inconsistent in his “opposition” to Kremlin, while being allowed to remain in the country when others were killed or imprisoned
It is fascinating just how much “you know” and “we know” and also “everyone knows”. Why do we need Jon or anyone else to discuss what is happening, to introduce new information from a variety of voices? “We already know” everything. And if we are not sure we can pretend we are. It’s all so good. TY for the historical context. Can you share a link?
@@georgine321 Listening to multiple experts is always great to test your knowledge and memory, but not every expert will know everything. There are people who are not public and not on social media who are experts on Russia and Russian aggression, like myself. If you are looking for links then you need to do your own homework, I did mine 😁
Excellent. Knowledgeable Guests. Great to hear Ukraine's perspective openly discussed & believed. If only the West would listen better to Ukraine & Eastern Europeans. Trump congratulated Putin for his excellent exchange deal during his speech yesterday- no one responded. Finally!
Have listened again to the interview with the three freed hostages including Kara Mursa...just one word (again) appalled. Thank you for your superb feed again.
THANK U jONATHON FOR THIS PARTICULAR VID!! THIS is, so far, the capstone vid, it has the most salient elements of the whole problem w/ Ru. I was already familiar somewhat with Stephen's utterly unprecedented work and writing, and so pleased to hear him and Sergej here, who actually has some of THE best insights i've seen from either a ru or a ukr, ever. So happy to hear any continuation of this theme/s
I'm from Europe. Thanks to the fact that Russia stopped supplying gas to Europe, energy prices rose. Many bakeries, butchers and glassworks went bankrupt. None of us started that war and despite that we are suffering thanks to Russian imperialism. I don't have much understanding of the cries and cries that the poor Russian people are suffering from unjust sanctions.
Hi Johnathan....please reach out to our friend Konstantin. He seems to be genuinely depressed since the release of the Russian dissidents. I'm thinking there may be a possible opportunity for Ukraine to arrange a home for the true dissidents that have dedicated themselves to enlightenment of those outside Russia to the propaganda machine which is Russia. It could be a win win for both.
@@SiliconCurtain for them it was a mistake for us it is enlightening. They may become more understanding and we in that process might understand how to convince other russians, but for now they did a good job showing how russians tick and why this war will not end from within russia.
Mark Galeotti in his podcast today has come out in support of their calls for reducing sanctions. Maybe time to get him on again. Ff you do you can also ask why he is so keen on belittling those from the Baltics and eastern Europe who see russia as an immediate military threat
Because Russia is not an immediate military threat? I'm from Baltics, from Latvia, and while Russia is a constant threat, it definitely is not an immediate military threat right now. There is simply no military resource left in Russia to be a threat to anyone, much less a NATO country, right now.
I think the Baltic states are pushing the immediacy of the threat as they know it will take YEARS for the rest of Europe to catch on and actually start to build their own capabilities and stockpiles.
@@ginniemess Romanian here - Russian drones keep crashing on our land for more than a year now, and our army can't shoot them down because we (still) don't have the legal framework to do so. My grandparents were "moved" from their ancestral lands in Moldova by the Russians. I fully realize the threat and can't express my feelings without getting banned on YT. But... He's right. "right now" Russia's military capability is a fraction of what it was, and it will take them at least 5-6 years to rebuild capacity to a level that could threaten a NATO country, and that's assuming they somehow manage to maintain the crazy military spending they have right now. (iirc, something like 1/3 of the budget) The removal of sanctions talk is beyond stupid, however. It's based on this fantasy that "oh, if we give ordinary russians everything on a silver platter, they'll reject Putin!". This has been tried before in the 90s, when Russia received so much aid compared to the rest of eastern bloc, and yet they STILL chose their imperial past.
Doubt released Russian dissidents have had time to take in their new reality so I doubt they would have an informed decision about the situation beyond Russia.
Exactly the immediate press conference was such a poor idea, and another error of judgement. They are not only badly informed about changes external to Russia and in Ukraine, but in Russia itself too. In fact their view of reality has been purposely distorted by Putin - the ‘hostage taker’
Thank You for this talk!!! Millions of people in west should hear IT! Thank You!!!!!!! This are exact description what is going on!!! Please promote this video!!!
The release of these political prisoners is fresh.. these people haven’t caught their breath yet. I haven’t seen the interviews but I’m betting that the experience of these ex prisoners must have been terrifying & they may even have been threatened by FSB/Putin’s thugs that even if they are released, they can still be gotten to and eliminated for good. Perhaps imprisonment has changed their values to ‘me/my family first, at all costs’ 🤷♀️
Sergej you nailed it! You are the best! I saw the press conference and I immediately hoped that you would do an analysis 👍Please also do an analysis on your channel! Love and Greetings from the southwest of Germany ❤
Gary is well hidden imperialist too. Not once he was speaking on side of russian imperialism. He never publicaly spoke of crimes of russia or soviet union. He was saying about freedom somthing but never made excuse or named real problem.
Great clear-eyed discussion by all three speakers, Jonathan, Sergei, Stephen. There really is no substitute for a catastrophic defeat for Russia in its war against Ukraine. Defeat could catalyse systemic changes within Russia: future generation of Russians would be freed from the national curse that dooms them to sacrifice themselves for imperial wars. Most disappointed in Kara-Murza.
Tremendously important interview! The question is surely raised to how much the West takes Ukraine's position and concerns seriously? Jake Sullivan is an example, crying on live TV, did he cry when the children's hospital was hit? One small thing, I disagree about Sergej's comment on Baerbock, I believe she really gets it concerning Ukraine but Scholz (the coward) as Chancellor has very strong executive powers and basically overrides dissent.
Concerning the exchange...it is not weakness to put people first. That is being misinterpreted by Russia and used, yes, but it is not weakness to save the innocent and surrender the guilty to their fate and own decisions. Russia exchanged good people and received only scumbags. We must keep our highest values in all exchanges. Some things just are not political equations.
Q: Yashin has also repeatedly called putin a war criminal... A: This Muscovite is trying to mislead the audience, back in 2014-2018 Yashin was the head of the draft board enlisting the Muscovite mercenaries and conscripts to the war in Ukraine, so he is in fact a war criminal himself.
that's a lie. Yashin was an elected head of one of Moscow districts, and as such , according to the Russian law, had to participate in organisation of conscriptions. Conscripts from 2014 to 2022 were not sent to Ukraine. Yashin was removed from that position by Moscow''s mayer for the lack of activity. He was not an employee of a military comissariate, he was not "proud" of his achievements.
Q: according to the Russian law... A: This Muscovite is delirious, the Russian Law ceased to exist in Zalesie on 1497 since when it has been replaced by Muscovite laws.
Finally! I hear voices of some reasonable people. I was listening other media and they are all pee their pants from excitement about this "Russian opposition"
How can it be a surprise that the Russian political dissention doesn't exactly align with Western thought on the war in Ukraine? (Vladimir Kara-Morza is unquestionably a brave man, but I disagree with him on numerous issues and he's going to experience immense, widespread pushback regarding a number of his views.)
It's a surprise because western media created a certain imagine for Yashin and KM, which is based solely on the few aspects of their ideology that are compatible with western ideals and goals. The rest... well, that will be an interesting string of "surprises".
Having the vid not viewed in full yet - how must it feel to not fearing death - and at a moment just to speak out your thinkings full free? Wow. Thanks from Germany.
Thank you, Jonathan, for inviting Sergej Sumlenny and Stephen Douglas to discuss the "exchange". Very good conversation. Thank you, Sergej, for being such a strong voice, you are one of the very rare "good" Russian to me. Thank you, Stephen Douglas, for your dedication. I hope, you will come together again soon on Silicon Curtain. 🇺🇦 Перемоги та миру всім українцям! 🇺🇦
👍👍👍🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 it was my instant reaction to hearing the press conference. Especially as I’ve listened to these three extensively before they were arrested, and felt there was something substantial different and weird about some of what they were saying now.
Okay let's talk about Ukrainians fleeing to russia. If there was a war started by Mexico in the United States, a lot of Mexican Americans would flee to Mexico. Because they have another place to go where there isn't a war. This is entirely why there needs to be war on Russian land. People didn't necessarily flee to Russia because they wanted to overthrow ukraine. Or because they weren't even happy with living in ukraine. Some of them fled because there was a war in one land and no war in the other land, probably most of them. And let's remember that Ukraine had freedom of media which allowed all kinds of Russian propaganda to be broadcast to the people in certain areas and continue brainwashing them all through their supposed free years
To be clear, Ilya Yashin didn’t sign any petition for clemency. In fact, he submitted a formal refusal to be expelled from russia as part of this exchange. Yashin has also repeatedly called putin a war criminal and the russian war in Ukraine a bloody aggression.
That might be part of the theater, Russians any ex-soviets are quiet good at this, very good, so good most will never realize they’ve been manipulated. It’s a dark psychology/art we in the west stopped utilizing because of feels.
@@vbcountryboy not just bcuz of 'feels' and really is much more about memories fading here as well as during Cold war the US never having developed an actual full adequate clandestine operation visavis Ru/ussr. You can't have a fraction of the size of the enemy's clandestine ops and expect success! We NEVER got to the threshold we needed during the CWar. It may not have taken much more, but we simply never had that depth. Some europeans may have had more/better. All that said, these are impressions based on indications revealed over the past forty or so years, and the ultimate truth seems to be still top secret.
@@vbcountryboy Yashin just held a RU-vid stream, his first after his release. He specifically called the West to increase its support of Ukraine and rejected any compromise with putin ru-vid.com8SjuTmGL1LI?si=ezJ37QLYDlh3VMyB (it's in Russian)
I watched the interview with Yashin, Kara Murza, and Pivovarov in Russian. They explicitly stated that they refused to sign any request for a pardon, etc., but were still released, although the opposite is said here 'as far as I can see'. Also the word 'zhertva' in Russian, although it does share etymological aspects with the word for 'sacrifice', means 'victim', talking about Russian soldiers as victims of Putin's policies. The point about talking to FSB agents about the war in Ukraine also sounded more like saying 'look, even these people admit that it's terrible for Russians'. I saw the focus of what they said to be pointing out not a lack of Russian responsibility for the war in Ukraine, but to be on the fact that Putin is not a legitimate representative of the Russian people, that he is a tyrant who has no right to his power, and that the consequences of his decisionmaking are dire, and that it's plain as day, because even the FSB admit it. In fact Kara Murza made this point of Putin being a 'dictator and usurper' quite explicitly, and explicity separated the Russian people from him in order to accentuate to them that he does not represent them, that he does not care about them. That this was directed at him, his power, the consequences of his actions for the Russian people (statements made for a Russian audience) does not mean that they were OK with what that also meant for Ukrainians, or allowing Ukrainians to decide all of that for themselves. They were addressing his power in Russia, its illegitimacy, and its detriment to Russia and its people, and doing it in Russian mainly for a Russian audience, and doing so does not mean anything about them somehow, in not mentioning in that context the effects on Ukraine, somehow being OK with what it means for Ukraine, or thinking Ukrainians should put up with anything for Russia's sake, or that Ukrainians shouldn't decide all that for themselves. It sounded more like a call for more Russians to recognise his illegitmacy and that his desires and policies run counter to any interests or the wellbeing of Russian people, not excluding how they are also counter to anyone else's interests or wellbeing. Basically just a different conversation,aimed at Russians, about Russia, and what legitimate power should be in Russia, and therefore one that's going to lack the elements you might expect in a conversation about Ukraine. It doesn't mean that would be absent in that actual conversation. I'm kind of bewildered by how people are forcing this into a different context and reading things from it that don't seem to follow. That an opportunity to address the issue of Ukraine properly was missed is fair enough, but to infer some kind of indifference or arrogant neglect of Ukraine seems a strectch. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll have to watch it again, but the inferences made here were not at all apparent when I watched it.
No I think you are spot on, people are being both naive and unfair in recognizing that KM et al have to play "good cop" to the West's "bad cop" to demonstrate that they are against Putin while gaining legitimacy disputing the narrative that they are stooges of the West. The "useful idiots" are the people raking these guys over the coals for their efforts at geopolitical nuance.
Good analysis. Russian opposition should talk less about Ukraine and Ukrainians and focus more on Putin regime and it crimes against Russian people. Ukrainians expect them to be an opposition to Russia, but it is their duty to be Opposition IN Russia
Thank you Rick, Mods, for this Free Azov stream. Your interviewing of the people on the sidewalk provides fascinating insight. Slava Ukraini, Free AZOV, Return the Children, Crimea is Ukraine, RGTFO and VPDFO. Heroyam Slava
«…Браты мае, мужыкі родныя. З-пад шыбеніцы маскоўскай прыходзіць мне да вас пісаці, і, можа, раз астатні. Горка пакінуць зямельку родную і цябе, дарагі мой народзе. Грудзі застогнуць, забаліць сэрца, - но не жаль згінуць за тваю праўду… Няма ш, браткі, большага шчасця на гэтым свеце, як калі чалавек у галаве мае розум і науку… Но як дзень з ноччу не ходзіць разам, так не ідзе разам наука праўдзіва з няволяй маскоўскай. Дапокуль яна ў нас будзе, у нас нічога не будзе, не будзе праўды, багацтва і ніякай наукі, - адно намі, як скацінай, варочаць будуць не для дабра, но на пагібель нашу… Бо я табе з-пад шыбеніцы кажу, Народзе, што тагды толькі зажывеш шчасліва, калі над табою Маскаля ўжэ не будзе. Твой слуга Яська-гаспадар з-пад Вільні»
I thought the title was somewhat extreme. Both Andrej Pivarovov and Ilya Yashin stated they wished to return to Russia and even Vladimir Kara-Murza claimed when told by his FSB guardian on taking off from Moscow that he would never see Russia again replied that as a historian he thought it would be sooner than he imagined. So clearly all three think there is a future for Russia with them part of it. I also agreed with Stephen Douglas who didn’t think they would have much influence in the USA or whichever countries they eventually resided. They obviously imagine that Russia today is redeemable. A view that I no longer share I am afraid. As an anecdote I visited Russia in 1966 and found it rather gloomy, but I had the honour to meet a couple of distinguished Russian scientists one being Alexander Luria a most charming man well known in his field in the West.
They may think there is a democratic future - but show no indicating of how they’d fight for it. Of course they have suffered for it… but it’s the fighting, not the martyrdom that will secure a democratic future for Russia.
@@SiliconCurtain I am not sure fighting for democracy in Russia is possible. Sergej Sumlenny along with other analysts think that an implosion of the Russian Federation might be the only solution in which case tightening economic sanctions rather than relaxing them would be the best strategy.
Oh my God! It makes them look so naive to throw their weight behind this kind of opposition! There's a long history of this kind of opposition.... Way TOO long.
This is why I was never a very big fan of Navalny. It was great that he was against the oligarchy corruption, but at his core, he was just another Christian nationalist.
As achild living in the USA late 60s early 70s I was often didmayed at hearing reasonable people getting upset with balanced critisiam of US involvement in Vietnam. Although these people disliked the war and wanted US involvement to stop ASAP, they couldn't bring themselves to openly critizising US policy . This felt too much felt like betrayal to them. Probably, the ruzzians are in a similar bind over the Ukraibe War.
9:20- 9:31 That is weird to hear. I listened the press conference and, I think Yashin, said that none of russian oposition signed a pardon. Yes, they were offered, but they declined. One one hand it is hard to believe that prisoners would be exchanged without them signing some sort of documents. On the other hand we are talking about Russian Federation where government sees people as a cattle. Calling out to cancel sanctions for "ordinary russians" because "don't work" is kind of dumb ngl.
I heard this too. I think such a declaration was simply an attempt to humiliate the prisoners. A sort of psychological torture. Clearly a deal was made so any such declaration was superfluous.
Grat. Finally some people started to understand that all russians are the same, they all want to remain as an empire, either their for or against putin
I don't agree with that little linguistics point, the noun "'жертвы" in Russian also means "victims" not just "sacrifices", yet I agree, it's still weird to call "victims" soldiers of an invasion army waging a neo-colonial imperialist war of conquest, even if it sort of makes sense to portrait them as victims of Putin's crimes.
An interesting thesis. I am sure that all the speakers are smart and erudite people with very developed intelligence. If they think that Russia should be destroyed for the good of Russia, I will not argue with them. However, so far, all such cases with the collapse of the state demonstrate to us that the consequences are rather negative. No, I am sure that if the citizens of Russia follow the advice of respected speakers, they will not regret it in any case. And yet it would be better if the Citadel of Democracy demonstrated to the whole world such a profitable development scheme. Dear speakers, we must agree that the current American state must return to its natural state and eliminate the federal government, which, quite obviously, prevents the states from freely developing and living the way their peoples want.
Wondering if coercion was appiled, i.e, a condition of their releases was for them to go soft of Putin's war and FSB would leave relatives or friends alone as long as they remain quiet. Just a thought.
Sergej, I feel your frustration at the failure of the West to fully understand what Russia really is and how it must be dealt with. Take some comfort from the fact that the public and the political classes have a long history of disconnection but the story doesn't end there, it starts there; large parts of the citizenry of Western countries is 100% behind you and Ukraine.
What does that mean? There will be no reality other than putinism unless they get more ‘physical’ in their opposition. Otherwise it’s all hot air and delusions.
@@SiliconCurtainOpposition must take all forms. Yes it must be armed, and yes it must be political and nuanced. They provide the latter as a bridge of legitimacy to the former, to dispute the entrenched narrative that only Putin cares about Russian people and that the opposition--armed or not--are merely stooges of the west. It is basic geopolitical good cop/bad cop. The west is the bad cop. Except in this case the bad cop is incompetent and turning against the good cop for playing the good cop role. That is about as much "useful idiocy" as Putin could ever hope for... The call to end blanket sanctions is unrealistic, but it makes good political theater to dispute or at least complicate the Kremlin's narrative, while also proving that the sanctions are working. By openly supporting blanket sanctions they would only play into Putin's narrative that they are "Western lapdogs" and thirsty for Russian blood and suffering and drive people back into Putin's abusive embrace. They need to show to the Russian people that they are trustworthy and that they genuinely care about Russia and Russians.
@@SiliconCurtain There was no reality other than "Soviet" in the Baltic states, Ukraine, and all Warsaw Pact countries. There were some attempts to get "physical" by Forest Brothers and other nationalists, but they were beaten to the ground very easily and quickly. Since then, all Eastern Europeans and Baltic people were sitting with their mouths shut, with a few moments of quick, peaceful, or violent protests now and then. There were no people's revolutions. Nobody overthrew Soviet regimes on barricades. They were just waiting for the regime to die. And it did die. They were waiting for the right moment and, meanwhile, they were supporting each other, spreading anti-regime information, and struggling where they could. This is what the Russian opposition must do-ignore Ukrainians and focus on Russians.
