The Chinese lost 14 out of 16 battles against the Annamese (Vietnamese). Well, those words came out of Prof. Wakeman's mouth. One Chinese in this forum defends such consistent record as: "Well, the Manchus was outnumbered and pretty much tied up in China." Down the page, another Chinese states: "Manchus are not Hans, but Manchus are Chinese." So much for Chinese logic.
@AltaicSupremacy It is much more nuanced than that. I suggest you read some books on the subject to enlighten yourself on the subject a bit. The view that all Manchus became Chinese is an old misconception that was effectively proven wrong by modern scholarship by people such as Elliott, Crossley, and others.
According to their tradition, the Teochew are migrants from northern China, and Han descendants. However, it is accepted that they also include various southern aborigine groups who were assimilated. Han expansion was both demic and cultural - for Han culture to be cemented in an area, there had to have been Han people in the first place.
No matter what U & others say, Chinese Nationals are the Han, Manchurian, Mongolian, Tibetan & Xinjiang Uighur & other minorities. They are represented by the FIVE golden STARs on the National flag of the Peoples' Republic of China. When China first became a republic, its flag consisted of FIVE COLOUR STRIPs. All these people are CHINESE 中 国 人。They have united, live together in harmony & working hard for the Progress And Prosperity of modern CHINA.
@Latdrinor zhonghua ren are people of the middle kingdom, not exclusively ethnic han. and zhonghua ren are not all sinitic speaker, they are also indo-european speaker like tatar, kazakh, uyghur.
Your use of English here is inaccurate. Manchus are not 漢族/Hanzu. They are not the "people of the Yellow River" but they are Chinese, they are 中國人/Zhongguoren, "people of the Middle Empire." The Hanzu are a Sino-Tibetan people, the Mongols are Turco-Mongolic, the Manchus are Tungusics, the Huizu Muslims are Sino-Tibetan, the Uighurs are Turco-Mongolic, the Zhuangzu are Thai, but they are all Zhongguoren. Chinese cultural identity, that is to say Zhongguoren cultural identity is based off "do you act like us, think like us, talk like us, then you are one of us." If you read the Confucian Classics, understand Han Feizi, Shang Yang, Xunzi, Zhuangzi, know the Daodejing, speak the binding language of Putonghua/Mandarin, read the Chinese characters that were standardized during the First Emperor's reign, then you are a person of the Middle Empire. Though my ancestors are from Europe, Mandarin is the dominant language of our household, our books are not Hobbes or Descartes, and behind all my Western clothing, my jeans, my jackets, my hoodies, there is a Zhongshan suit for formal occasions and a Qing Manchu cap for university ceremonies. And my use of the Qing cap is just a preference to the Han dynasty's coronet and topknot, or the Song dynasty's long spiked cap, or even the Ming's full hair covering cap.
No, you're the one who's confused. Nobody thinks that Manchus are Han Chinese and belong to Han Chinese heritage. The ancestors of the Manchus belong to Manchu heritage. But the same rule applies to Han Chinese. The ancestors of the Han Chinese - which includes the Shang, the Zhou, the Qin, the Han, the Sui, the Tang, the Song, and the Ming - belong to Han Chinese heritage.
In fact, if ethnicity were the equivalent of ancestry, not only would the vast majority of Han Chinese not be Han Chinese, but the vast majority of Koreans would not be Korean. The ancestry of most Koreans, especially South Koreans, is not Goguryeo but Samhan - a distinct group of states that were later countered by tribes of Buyeo descent, Buyeo having come to Korea from central Manchuria. If we used the ethnicity = ancestry argument, then most Korean states would no longer be Korean.
Great great lecture. what strikes me first that how is similar 2 mongol (form of governance) empires "china" and Muscovite one. Muscovy was de jure until 19c. under Mongol rule (was a part Ulus of Juchi and its successor Crimean tsardom ) . 19c and until 1917 was under rule of German elite
@Shovelheaded666 ppl mistaken teochew for minnan since some notable ppl like taksin the great, king of thonburi kingdom 1734-1782, were of teochew origin. and yes, some words are similar to thai language. but we're still chinese though, if that's what you're asking. there is still many teochew on chaoshan today. though slang may differ due to mandarin influences. if we're chinese why can't manchu's be chinese, they're practically the same ppl if you look at them.
This was done for many reasons. One obvious one was to strengthen the Manchu manpower and production, but the main reason was to act as practice on administrating manchuria with the Chinese system and learning how to govern a large population of Chinese (sedentary agricultural society) as opposed to Manchu (nomadic tribal society). This experience and adoption of Chinese administrative practices would prove to be a strong foundation when the manchu would claim the mandate of heaven.
@johnnydorama so koreans have higher % of northern genes. There were people that were arguing that Koreans were closer to SE asians. I'm getting very confused by all this genetics argument.
It's not suprising that some qing emperors either forgot or chose not to practice manchu customs, language, culture, etc at all. Even from the very beginning with Nurhaci the manchu began to reform their government and statecraft to the Ming model. At this time the Ming was going downhill and their were alot of starving Chinese nurhaci encouraged them to immigrate to Manchuria in the form of tax cuts and low cost land leasing for Han people.
2. He knew from history that the Mongols were kicked out of China after ruling not even for 100 years because they prejudiced the Chinese and sidelined them in their own country. and 3- The only successful way for a conquest dynasty to rule China was to adopt the Chinese culture, customs, and language. Or else it would be impossible to maintain a rule on a HUGE chinese population over a vast land. Conveniently, Kangxi was already well versed in Chinese culture andlanguage due to his upbringin
the quoted text is from 金史，本紀第一, not from 滿洲源流考, it is later admitted by Wanggia Kenpuno, chief Jin historian, that history serves as a political tool to serves the purpose of "assimilation of the Parhae people" Quote：五代时，契丹尽取渤海地，而黑水靺鞨附属于契丹。其在南者籍契丹，号熟女直；其在北者不在契丹籍，号生女直。生女直地有混同江、长白山，混同江亦号黑龙江，所谓白山黑水是也
By the time Emperor Kangxi consolidated his power in China a generation later, he would try and do a balancing act of preserving a manchu identity and awareness, while at the same time Embracing and adopting the Chinese culture and way of living. He EMPHASIZED ruling as a Chinese style dynasty and not a manchu one for two reasons. 1 - He was influenced by a Chinese environment since birth and had an extensive Chinese education and could speak and write the language fluently.
No it's not the same logic with the Manchu. IN the history books it is interesting to note that Qing emperors themselves felt the effect of sinicization and often times had conflicting views about their own ethnic identity. They know that their origins are manchu but being raised in an environment where you are basically immersed into a Chinese environment as soon as you are born, growing up with chinese values, taught confucian values by chinese teachers, learn chinese as a first language.
Qing, the very last and longest Dynasty in china was not founded by chinese people ( Han race) but one of Tungus ethnics. Yuan Dynasty was the Mongolian empire established by Genghis Khan. So the period that the Han Chinese had ruled the continent of China is very very short, Most of the time other north ethnics like Mongolian, Khitan, Tungus, Goguryeo( ancient Korean Kingdom) had ruled the continent of China.
Are Korea people are from.Manchuria..they blood can be tested by Dna..and Rna..gen..chromosome..and particel ..particel..in they blood..haplogrup..as same match korea people now or ancient ..with blood Manchuria people..
@KoriSenbay Whether or not the Manchu culture and history belong to China all depends on how you look at the country. China repeatedly claims that together with the Han Chinese all the ethnic minorites in the country constitute one single ethnic group, albeit a political one, the Chinese. This theory makes little sense. They could've said that China is a civilization state of multiple ethnic origins instead of a national one. This would more legitimately render the Manchus Chinese.
Goguryeo with Gokturk VS Tang dynasty (china) with Silla. Goguryeo (Kimek (Kuman) we know them as Yimek (yamak) branch of Turk. Gokturk (Ashena clan Turk). and Tang dynasty (Turk generals and aristocrats founded Tang dynasty). and Silla (Saka Turk) founder of Yamato dynasty in Japan.
Uhhh No Korikhan I think you just missed the entire point of my argument. I wasn't talking about Mongols I was talking about the Manchu. I'm saying that even though the Qing royal family was Manchu, they ruled the empire as a Chinese empire, not a manchu empire. The entire political and social system was picked up exactly where the Ming left off and the qing invested alot of effort to make themselves appear as legitimate Chinese dynasty in the eyes of the Han population.
@Shovelheaded666 erm just to let you know since i'm a chinese, han chinese is not really an ethnicity or race, it was categorized as such because of the same beliefs and similarity in culture. many han chinese you know today have many origins from the manchus and mongols, some don't even know it themselves. (and i don't mean by rape and massacare, they just blended in) i know that teochew and hakkas have very distinct chinese culture from typical han, but they are labeled han chinese anyway.
I don't want to make upset Cinese people regarding this issue. But the reason the fact should be clear is ...this is about whole history root between china and northern asian people. The oldest and biggest old civilian's remains at northern asin which is almost oldest one in the world.
@Thak11 erm the manchus homeland is in manchuria, and if i remember correctly, the manchus were quite hostile towards joseon dynasty, raiding their borders. that was before qing dynasty was established anyway.
A very interesting presentation. The Manchu Qing Empire was not China nor were the lands they conquered part of China. China was one part of the Qing colonial empire. Tibet & Mongolia, albeit Qing vassal states, were never part of China nor viewed as such by the Qing.
You are correct, Chinese are not just Han. However, there are groups in China who are not Chinese and who do not want to be Chinese. You need to get that straight. Those who mixed with Chinese and later assimilated into Chinese identity are Chinese. Those who did not are not. Saying everyone in China is Chinese is not going to work in a world where transnational ethnic identities are of increasingly greater importance.
I am highly educated, and therefore understand the basic principle that people should do onto others what they want others to do onto them. From what you said in your comments, you believe in offensive ideas about other peoples' histories and cultures. That other people believe in offensive ideas about your people's history and culture is, then, simple karma. Learn to respect other people's culture and history. Only then do you have ground to ask others to respect yours.
@Shovelheaded666 teo chew is an old people dated back from tang dynasty. we had more claim of old han chinese more than you think, language wise we sill have roughly half of old surviving vocabulary. listed in unesco, so does having the oldest form of chinese opera. our original homeland were from/around chang'an/xian today. migrated south due to "civil" wars. and called chinese jews sing we don't really have a permanent home. many old ppl still call them selves t'ng nang, translated tang ppl.
Former Qin, Northern Wei, Liao, Later Tang, Later Jin, Later Han, Jin, Western Xia, and Western Liao *never* ruled the whole of China, only a portion of it. Saying that all are Chinese won't work - nobody buys it when there are plenty of Tibetans, Uyghurs, etc. who refuse to be Chinese. All ethnic groups are mixed with other ethnic groups, but it is important to understand what the primary heritage of that ethnic group is. Han is different from Tibetan, for example, because of it.
Even angryChinese admits that Hans are abunch of traitors. "PRC has inner mongolia, tibet, xin jiang and manchuria. whats up?" Oh Brave Chinese Man! So brave! Seriously, how much resistance can those people can put up? Tibet?--A nation of monks? All the other places mentioned are scarcely populated and/or nomadic in nature. Long live the brave Han people of China!
If you see "欽定滿洲源流考" which is published by Qing goverment, Silla,Beakche,Jusin,Old chosun, Buyeo,Samhan,Koguri,Bohai,Malgal have the same root and the same tribe. And those countries are all old korean countries. They have that concept for 4000 yrs. You can't say those people are chinese from just 21c chinese mind.
@Shovelheaded666 before the occupation of beijing, ALL manchurians were forced to wear the same clothes and queu. and if you dont know, manchurians during ming dynasty was an autonomous allied state of ming. culturally they are also quite similar to chinese, the way they dress used to be the same as chinese tho. after occupation of china proper, manchu identity, became a military caste system under the 8 banners. by that they can't participate in trade as the normal han chinese do.
You've shown your hatefulness elsewhere on this site. Telling people to not be hateful when you are hateful is hypocrisy. Look in the mirror first. Respect is earned, not given. Learn to respect other people's history and culture as well as academic scholarship and then one day you'll be respected, but that day is not today.
The point is, whcih tribe did the manchrain itself think as their ancestors. In their historybook, they worte Silla, Baekjae,Malgal,chosun,Malgal,Bohai,Kokuryo.... Also they wrote all of them are family tribe. Also all of them are Korean's ancestors...Isn't it right we have to repect manchrian's thoguht regarding to manchrian's history?
You said Goguryeo is not South Korean and that Tang is not Chinese. I shouldn't have to remind you who the descendants of those states are, and why what you're doing is very different from disqualifying people from claiming *other* people's ancestry.
@ghoststrider45 about mongol conquering jin dynasty, were actually aided by song armies(then allied) against jin, mongol warfare at d time do not have the capability of siege warfare nor does heavy weaponries. mongols did not really get into world power until jin dynasty fell(when most northern chinese join mongol ranks). until then jin dynasty did overpower the mongols until they faced two pronged invasions on both north and south(mongol-song alliance). and later disputes between mongol&song
@yijoydai9 your right Han people managed to do that in Tang, South Song, Ming dynasty. but in Yuan and Qing dynasty it was Mongolians and Manchurians who led the melting pot of cultures.
Well I gave 3 reasons but whatever. Anyways, the way the manchu's claimed the throne was done in accordance to Chinese customs as well (mandate of heaven, ritual funeral for the ming emperor, and etc). It's important to remember that it wasn't the manchu's that overthrew the Ming, it was the Ming rebel Li Zicheng that overthrew the Ming and the Ming emperor commited suicide, and because of that the bulk of the Chinese people and military gave support to the Manchu as a way to restore order.
@Shovelheaded666 manchus were not being exterminated by chinese, but by Japanese colony manchukuo. where emperor puyi in his desperate situation, just sign any laws forwarded to him. today, china is helping the manchus to revive the manchu language, sadly most young generation manchus aren't that interested. ironically many manchu speakers are han chinese professors today. i remember when manchukuo fall, many colony children from japan was abandoned in china. the biological parents just fled...
A softer language is not sufficient for dealing with people who want to rob others of their heritage, but there's a difference between coming down hard on robbers and becoming a robber. You're doing the latter, while I'm doing the former. There is no ground for you to rob Chinese and Koreans of their cultural and historical heritage just because a few Chinese and Koreans are trying to rob yours.
I think you are not catching up the updated founded things in norther region remains. (Hong-san culture,BC 22c) Too many pooves are getting found from there which tells us the builders of that were Dong-yi. So china gvnment start to say, Huangdi came from Dong-yi and Dong-yi is real ancestors of China. That is new trend now in china.
@Thak11 never heard of that book yet, will look up to it, from what i know is koreans usually don't like inter-breeding in those days, let alone "barbarian" tribes up north. and were rather objecting when the manchus took beijing. claiming to be the inheritor of old confucian culture usually manchus were more to the amur river, get me a credible source to prove me wrong or else doesn't prove your point.
That is called Hong-San culture remains which was built by dong-yi (Old chosun) people. (Now Korean,Mongol,Japanses people) But China started to distort the history. They changed the history fact that Dong-yi is the real ancestors of Han tribe.
@MrSandauk your right. and when Asians didn't get a chance to industralize the Europeans fucked us up in the last 100 years. it's time people of Asian origins come together in harmony
first I must say I did take some time to verify your claim, I just happen to have one (滿洲源流考), but I found no quoted reference of "金之始祖讳哈富(旧作函普)初从髙丽来" seems like you have been a victim of your ego-obsessed peers' spam. and according to your historians you guys originate from the Central Asian Altay Mountain, Manchus are direct descendants of 肅慎, ancient tribes in NE china dated as early as Spring and Autumn Period
actually qing was one of the shorter living dynasties, second only to yuan dynasty thanks to the british and their iron ships. longest living dynasty should be the song dynasty, in AD timeline. ironic isn't it? chinggis khan created what we know today as mongol ethnicity. the proto mongols like the khitans and jurchens, were actually writing chinese script and wearing very similar clothes other than the hairstyles. goguryeo only ruled part of manchuria at it's greatest extent.
@KoriSenbay Chin "officially" say that Manchus regarded themselves as Chin... it's saying modern day Manchu not ancient, and u know what Korz always "offcially" say that Manchus r their descendants... Kor always trying to split up China... that is the truth behind everythin...
@Shovelheaded666 oh really? i'm teo chew btw. my great great grandfather used to be a minister in chaoshan. my great grandfather died from opium when he was young, and my grandfather ended up in malaysia due to civil wars at that period. maybe a lot of of chinese in china today say that qing is a foreign is a foreign ruler due to propaganda, but not for migrated chinese in that period, whom also supported sun yat sen financially. whom stayed in penang before 1911 of qinghai revolution.
manchurian IS chinese, unless ur talking about han and the 55 ethnics. hell even han have a lot of altiac ppl. what differentiates han is just difference in culture/isolation do note that ming dynasty's northern troops were mostly made up of former mongols. many han chinese do have old tibetan/proto mongol lineage too if ya wanna go way back in time. and mongol today is just part of the chinese people, real mongol powers like the oirat mongols were exterminated by the qing northern expedition.
@ghoststrider45 nurhachi was allied/vassal state to ming dynasty. and later rebelled sometime in his later life for various political reasons (yehe). and killed during a siege by a chinese canon. well he was hostile to both ming and joseon. hell, just wiki it! your argument is invalid. the origins of manchus were from jurchen, oh dear are you trolling me?! xD
In the past there were no ethnic groups, only political and cultural groups. I'm talking about scholars' usage of the Han term, which is used to refer to Sinitic groups both past and present.
wtf? i see you really have difficulty understanding Chinese. in Chapter 7, of "the origin of Manchu(滿洲源流考)", publish by Qing government in 1777: "金之始祖讳哈富(旧作函普)初从髙丽来" "The founder of Jin(金) didn't like to make money, and He(whose name is hampu(函普)) came from Korea (髙丽)" and where the hell it mentioned that he didn't like to make money? "讳哈富" is a name
NO. your memory fails you or you never learned it in the first place. GoGuRyeo unifies Korea after unified silla meets its demise. and has been one Korea for nearly a thousand years after the 3 kingdom period. GoGuRyeo is the entirety of Korea
@Shovelheaded666 manchus are practically chinese, i don't see why you should hate them, honestly, mongols and manchus were supposed to be one of us, until colonialist came. i can tell you, under western influences, many chinese were shocked to hear that, manchus were not chinese, even some manchus themselves, when europe came riling up china. just to let you know that many han chinese also held very high governmental positions at the time. whom also oppose modernization in qing dynasty..
Nice ignorance. The Qing and Yuan combined is 350 years in the last 1,000 years. The bulk of the continent of China was under Chinese rule the rest of the time. Also, Goguryeo never ruled the continent of China. Go back to grade school before you try to school others.
@Shovelheaded666 here's some teochew opera, /watch?v=qoqMyirx31s if you want to know. that's what they wear on those days, though opera clothes could be abit exaggerated. but their clothes also depicts a timeline. and what they wear depicts rank. tho i understand chinese opera is not suited for western tastes.
mongolian manchu are all chinese, during the chinese tang dynasty the chinese emperor was called heaven khan by those people who lived in present day mongolia xinjiang and manchuria, korean is realy jsut a small ethnic group broke off from china. China matained a strong cultural influence all the way till the end of qing dynasty, for all those time koreans have to give their women and money to chinese empror to make them happy and have to kneel to chinese emperor.
@ghoststrider45 and regarding manchus, they were let in by the emperors general, when the whole imperial family committed suicide. the shun dynasty on the south kept raiding and pillaging cities including beijing that the ming generals would rather side with the manchus than seeing their family and people raped&massacred by the shun rebels. thus mandate of heaven were given to the manchus. go study chinese history before posting stupid comments and misleading people.
@Shovelheaded666 haha no prob, hope it helps. and yeah manchu and han can be quite complicated though, but they were once not han, or should i say an distinct ethnic group. with their own culture and language. but i can hardly say for now, after long period of rule, communism and the cultural revolution, many manchus of stature hid their identity in fear of persecution. even today's "manchurians" are not 100% manchus. some han chinese declare themselves manchu to avoid 1 child policy.
@gullmaigi, very long? ahahaha.... it is only 250 years, the longest are han dynasty by han ethnic for 400 years. the chinese han dynasty destroyed your beloved Lo-Chosun (Go-Joseon) in 108 BC, making your korean ancestor as chinese's slave. even Qing+Yuan only 340 years
"Han" ethnic is a myth you moron. It was developed in the early 20 th Century by "Chinese" intelligentsia to strike back against the Western influence into Asia. Firstly, Hongshan Culture is the oldest civilization than any Yellow River civilizations and the Chinese REFUSE to excavate the Hongshan Culture which lies in MANCHURIA! They are secretive about it because the Koreans are the OLDEST AND THE MOST ADVANCED CIVILIZATION! Manchurians STATED IN THEIR OWN HISTORY BOOK THAT THEY ARE KOREANS! This is why they never absorbed Korea! Nurhaci even offered help to the Koreans against the Baekje Nipponese in the Imjin Wars! Look up the Manchu History! All the ancient dynasties are in the NORTH!
@ghoststrider45 i did not steal history, why not just go to manchuria and ask the manchus about your historical "fact"? and see how they feel about it? the mandate of heaven was quite real to them, they even do the rituals. as does every chinese emperor. heck they were even more superticious and conservative then the chinese themselves. yeah they did took over those said places, yet they still proclaimed themselves as chinese of the middle kingdom, go read historical facts, not korean claims.
didn't korean got raped by qing dynasty? perhaps u don't know most of qing emperors have chinese mother and many goverment officials are chinese merriage is allowed betwen han and manchu it just forbidden in the beginning, Also if tibet taiwan mongol uygur is not china than why they are included in the chiese's map?
angryaznman, hey don't be so angry. Being Chinese is not the end of the world. Cheer up. Anyway, you should change your nick to angryChinese. Why do you call yourself Asian when you can call yourself Chinese? So much for being a Chineseman.
Important ancestors of chinese?... Manchus were former slave masters of chinese.. Manchus were foreign occupation on china... Manchus are not chinese.. China perverted their own history to serve chinese interest often in disregard of the truth... China wants to be Qing of the manchus to justify china's occupation of Tibet, Xinjiang, inner Mongolia and Manchuria... and using Qing to grab territories from India, Bhutan borders
Can you agree with your hitory knowledge that you learned so far by chinese history book? That's why it's important what tribes Manchurian think their ancestors. All dong-yi's are agreeing Chosun, Kokuryo,Beakjae,Silla,Bohai,Samhan are the same tribes and same ancestors. Now, Manchurain lost their languge and cultures and root but China has to admit those northern old cilvil remains belong to Dong-yi people. it's like china originally cmae from Old Chosun. Can you agree this? it's nonsense.
@ghoststrider45 earlier you say you're korean and now you say you're manchu?! god damn.. hell you even claim goguryo was south koreans? when most south koreans came from silla, gaya, and baekje, goguryo haven't even come to your map at all. and you have no concept of what ritual is, it's not a "concept" it's a religion! were you even born in asia?
@yijoydai9 what a fucked up lie. Mongols Yuan dynasty after it's invasion of Tangut, it conqured the Jurched Kingdom of Jin dynasty. who were Manchurians. and later Han dynasty called Song was conqured by the Mongols. the Mongols treated i's conqured people the same which is why they were treated the same. Mongols were close to Khitans which is why they favored them over Jurchens(Manchurians)
@Shovelheaded666 i you wanna find real existing manchus, you should go to taiwan. some of the turncoat warlords joined the kuomintang after the abdication of qing dynasty. other than that is south east asia like malaysia, thailand ect. though in SEA most of manchu's descendants there already blended in into other dominent chinese culture there(hakka,teochew,canto,hainan). han ethnic by its self comprised of, also many ethnic groups. as i say again, each place have their own distinct culture
Funny, you define 'offensive' as people claiming their own country's history and heritage. By that logic, it offends me that Genghis Khan is said to be Mongolian. I guess I better start attacking Mongols for saying it~
@ghoststrider45 i can't take you seriously anymore, you just state baseless facts. you can't even state where manchu's originated from properly. if you want to lie about manchu's history you have to do better than this! and regarding chinese rituals, i don't even want to bother explaining it to you, cuz you'll just claim it's korean ritual all over again.
Get your fact and your logic straight. First, how do you know Viet didn't invent any writing system? We used Chinese characters just like Japanese and Koreans. That fact alone does not imply that we didn't invent any or that we were incapable of inventing anything. We chose the Latinized alphabet because it is compatible with our language. You can't latinize Chinese because your language has too many homophones/homonyms--suck for you Chinese.
First off What the fuck is a Sunbi? Second. Jurchen and Manchu are the same people, so it's either you are misinformed and didn't know that or you just like distorting information...Judging by what you've written so far either one is true. 3. Out of all those races only the Mongols and Manchu conquered all of China. Khitan, Xiongnu, and other non-han people's only held some Northern territory that is traditionally regarded as Chinese, not all of China.
