Audi SQ5 tested with only one wheel 'grounded'. As it should, Audi's Quattro permanent AWD system prevails on ramp test! Proper explanation and testing.
Graeme Skinner. Your comment just indicates your own stupidity to be honest. I mean it took you the full 4 minutes and 45 seconds to realise it wasn't for you! Not to mention the title or description! Were you not in control of your hand at the moment of clicking on the video.
Here's the point everyone seems to be missing. NONE of this would be an issue if manufacturers used locking or limited slip differentials - front, centre, and rear. The only reason these tests are performed, and competing systems compared to one another is because they are all compromised approaches to AWD. They all use electronically controlled brakes and other systems to mimic the function of side to side and front to rear lock-up when slip is detected. These tests are really a comparison of which system is compromised least. Hence, all of these traction aiding systems designed to mimic the function of proper LSDs will never function as well as proper LSDs. Why don't manufacturers use LSDs you ask? Cost-benefit is the answer. For 99.9% of drivers and driving situations, the electronically controlled, open differential AWD systems are more than adequate. Despite their fancy Audi and BMW nameplates and sophisticated marketing departments, Audi and BMW are run by bean counters. They wouldn't be able to sell you an LSD based system at an additional cost (despite the additional cost to produce), since the additional marginal benefit (given real world scenarios) would likely go completely unnoticed by the average driver. The result? Sell what works most of the time and costs the least to produce and maintain. If I told you that you could buy a car that would meet your traction needs 99.9% of the time, or that you could buy the exact same car and this one would meet your traction needs 100% of the time, but this car is $4000 more expensive... would you pony up the difference? Anyone looking at getting themselves into situations on a frequent basis where only one wheel has traction, should NOT be looking into buying anything from Audi or BMW - rather, should be looking at a G class, Unimog, Jeep with lockers, a Range Rover, pickup with optional lockers, etc.
FisheeC3 I would take this system over a lsd any day though. A lsd only has a certain amount of torque (50ft-lbs for a Dana35 for instance) depending on how much friction is on the clutch plates, and that coefficient degrades over time as well. It IS better than an open diff, but nowhere as good as a viscous coupling diff like a Subaru uses. exactly as you stated, it's a good way to knock some money off the price and tell people they have awd.
oh my god nobody needs those artificial test scencarios, just go drive a quattro on a snowy day once and you'll see it just fucking works...I am sure xDrive does too. The thing I find more appealing about Quattro is that it's a fully mechanical system, but that's just something that makes me 'feel' better while driving, xDrive probably works just as good in terms of traction and hill climbing. But on the other hand, driving expensive cars actually is a lot about emotions and feeling, isn't it?
+Johannes Ebster Kudos to you for being the first "Audi guy" that is not blindfolded and saying anything other than 4 rings sucks. You should receive an award.
Schluempf lein agree. Nice to see neutral comments for a change. I have a 320d Xdrive and would probably have an Audi Quattro if I didn't have my beemer.
EDIT Sorry just saw the date on this so ignore my comment the thread is 5 years old. This test is not an analogy for driving on snow, as all 4 wheels have some traction on snow. Instead it is meant to be an analogy for soft off roading where due to undulations, dips and holes it is very easy to be in a situation where only one wheel has traction. Not all traction controls are equal and some will fail at being able to move the car, sitting there spinning the wheels with no traction but unable to redirect enough power to the one wheel with traction. DCTs (DSG) & CVTs can also have issues in such situations (in the real world more prolonged than this simple test) resulting in either overheating and shutting down or a refusal to allow power through in an attempt to protect themselves. There are a couple of other RU-vid channels that have done a lot of similar tests on a variety of SUVs. It is interesting to see the ones that fail completely in being able to move the car or have more trouble than the better systems.
I've had a 2008 A6 Allroad 3,0TDI manual for 5 years - and a week ago bought a 2012 F11 530d xDrive - with an auto box (I don't think they made them with manuals and xDrive in the F10/F11 generation - even RWDs with manual are almost impossible to find with bigger engines (more common with the 4cyl N47)). xDrive is an inferior AWD system - I haven't tested it in critical traction conditions like I've tested the audi - bet quattro really doesn't slip, like - ever - unless you're REALLY stuck. Even crossing tram lines in the winter with snow and slush on the road/tram tracks/cobble stones - and giving it the beans - it just goes, there's no shuffling the power around, the car doesn't skid, there's no adjustment with the steering needed. It's kinda unbelievable and impressive. That said, yesterday in heavy rain doing a 90 degree turn I managed to make the rear wheels start to slip on the bimmer - because xDrive is more RWD oriented, as is BMW in general. Also, xDrive is less economical (nevermind the engine/auto box) and heavier and has more oil-filled assemblies than quattro - but, BMW has much better engine placement and isnt' as nose-heavy as the audi, even with its pretty long straight six. So I guess it's six... well.. of the one - and half a dozen of the other.
Σταυρος Σπανιδης, I agree, subaru 4wd is best because they've been making it for a long, same as toyata been building hybrids, not to say they're perfect, there's always room for improvement.
Van Kham good to se you know your car history😅 quattro came in 1980😉 and do the subaru have locking diffs in the front and back or somting like the quattro edl?
Subaru uses brakes to lock wheels that dont have traction, that way the diferentials are left with no other option than sending power to the wheel that does have traction. Not sure how the system is called. And STI versions get driver operated diferentials - so you can lock it on fly as you require
Also, I am not sure which AWD system is better, whether subarus or audis, I believe that both do very well and defo are both the leaders in their AWD systems.
BMW showed their xdrive vs. quattro with a ramp similar to this. BMW got up there and audi wasn't able to. This video demonstrates that audi can do it too.
Steven Liu Ok I see, you have no idea how quattro and xdrive works. I didn't know that torque matters if you have no traction at all. Make your research about quattro and xdrive, watch the videos again and maybe your brain is able to find out how both systems work and why the audi wasn't able to climb.
Very, very impressive. I have never owned an AWD vehicle since I live in southern California, but I can see myself getting a crossover with this type of traction control in the future. In any case, I really liked this video.
quattro is one of the worlds best 4wd systems! The xdrive system from BMW and also the 4matic from Mercedes can't reach this level. I'm driving a 30 years old audi 100 (us version 5000) with the inline 5 engine and quattro of course! this car is unstoppable in mud and deep snow
There's a bunch of different systems labeled "quattro". Some of the smaller Audi/VW cars use a Haldex "quattro" system which is garbage. This video is of the full Torsen system.
Unless it's an STi, I think the result would be pretty bad since all the other cars have open front and rear differentials. Plus they don't use torque vectoring which would basically cause the open diff to just spin the wheels without traction.
haven't had the stickiest of sticky situations cuz I avoid them, but I was going up a hill that was just hard dirt (they were about to pave it I guess) and this jackass fly's out one of the roads so I have to come to a stop mid hill, anyway I doubted I'd have traction I so I inched so I my right side wheels touched the curb and it went right up the hill np, it's about a half mile hill too
I concur. The only time I've ever been stuck in my 2015 Forester XT was when I was high centered in deep snow and all four wheels lost traction. A few days later, I got Nokian winter tires and went back to that same spot and got out easily.
The Q5 range (including the SQ5 shown here) do not use the crown gear center dif like the RS 5. It uses the same torsen center diff the rest of the quattro cars do (not A3, TT, R8). the S4, S5, A8 and S6/7 have the torque vectoring rear diff option but the SQ5 does not.
My Jeep was equipped to do this same ability all the way back in 2002. Has the ability to distribute torque to an individual tire to maintain traction.
I've had multiple Audi's. I don't care what Subaru, Honda, BMW or any manufacturer says. My Audi's got me home EVERYTIME. My A4's literally plowed the the neighborhood streets weaving in and out of stuck cars. To which they dug their cars into the path I made. I know that Subaru is just as good and maybe BMW is catching up, but I will ALWAYS love my Audi's and have full faith in quattro because it has done things that amaze me.
Dean Viljoen LOL....... You've never owned an Audi and it's obvious by that stupid question. Maybe..... MAYBE...... you will get undesirable understeer AT EXCESSIVE SPEEDS. In normal everyday driving speeds where 90% of Audi's are driven, you will never have this horrible understeer. Ridiculous! LOL. That's such a stupid argument! Audi's architecture has not seemed to be a hindrance in their racing ventures, so maybe you should try again.
It's a 60/40 rear wheel drive torque split so the front wheel drive test is harder than rear wheel drive in that 3 wheeled test. The same result, maybe even and easier one, would occur if they tried it your way.
+Hemen Kareamg My first thought! My father has a Q5 and if fails, when only one rear wheel has traction. My Mitsubishi has S-AWC (with Torque Vectoring), I can manually lock the center diff, front axle has an automatic/electronic diff lock and the rear axle uses brake power to transfer torque to the wheel that has traction. With only one rear wheel having grip the Mitsubishi needs a couple of wheel turns (approx. 15km/h on the speedo) to get going but it will get out of such a situation.
+Billy Boiz The Q5 has a Haldex system with EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) only on the front axle. If you make a test with only one rear wheel having traction the car will not move. We did an unplanned "test" last year in the Austrian mountains with the car in a diagonal situation (left front and right rear in the air) and it was stuck. Put weight on the front and got it moving. Maybe turning off ESP would have helped, too.
+Billy Boiz Does it have a different drive train? The S usually has more power and better suspension. The original "BMW X-Drive" video was using a regular Q5.
Can someone link the video in question, because I saw a video where a BMW and an Audi were both able to go up the ramp. The BMW was quicker but marginally and that could have had to do with the driver’s input. Both systems are quite capable of pulling off this same feat. I can’t imagine a Quattro Audi not being able to get out.
Nice showcase. Would have been even nicer if they put some sensors in the differential and shown the actual mechanism making it's descission on a screen, including the ABS difflock of the front axle.
Just thinking out loud but do all things need promotion and solicitation? Even if it is to industry professionals or special interest groups? Some people may find it hard to say no after the free airplane ticket or free buffet meal or whatever/ And does the pressure selling approach actually still work? Must to some degree at least right
Can anyone explain how this bust XDrive? what video are we comparing because i saw "Audi Quattro Vs. BMW xDrive" the one on gravel drive and british fella.... and that showed bmw with a lot less wheel slip
Can someone explain how BMW rigged the other test? Why would switching off ESP keep the Torsen center diff form sending power to both axles? Torsen is purely mechanical, no electronics. If the front wheels spin, the rear axle gets power. With ESP off at least one rear wheel will turn. It did not do that in the BMW video. Why not?
the front to back split is not the problem...as you said it yourself, the center torsen will split front to back just fine...where the esp comes into play is on the side-to-side split, because the front/rear diffs are open and need esp engagement in order to split side to side...thats what BMW did...and to be fair, thats what Audi did as well...there is also an Audi video where they do the same to beemer..
Pe Peroni they dident give the quattro enugh power to make the tourq trancefer to the diffrent axels😉 bmw does not have a thorsen senter diff so its not tourqe controlled but electric so go to wiki and read about it😉
I have to add a reply: After "researching" a lot on the internet I have learned that the BMW ramp was much steeper and that Torsen indeed does NOT send torque to the other axle if both wheels on one axle have almost no grip at all (wet ice or rollers).So disabling ESP will indeed make Quattro fail in such a test. However my Mitsubishi will make it with ESP on or off, as the center differential is electronically activated (not controlled by ESP or ASC as Mitsu calls it) and can be locked manually for full 4WD mode.
The quattro system that audi uses for over a decade now is Haldex not Torsen. Haldex is a Swedish system and has been in Quattro Audis since quattro gen 2 (Audi S3 2001, Audi TT, Volkswagen Golf R32, among others). Only older audis, use Torsen
They probably turned off stability control so the ABS brakes didn't intervene (EDL stuff he describes at end). Also, those other videos highlighted previous versions of Quattro that aren't self-locking and thus would need the ABS system to intervene.
most times turning off the DSC/STABILITY CONTROL will over ride the throttle cutoff and stop denying wheel spin, which translates to the car moving off the slick patch. my 2005 HONDA CR-V is a great example of this...I got a hard fuel cut when wheel spin is detected....which can be negated and pushed past if the DSC is turned off, it will torque split more aggressively
This is why you should never take anything at face value in the world of marketing... Audi and Subaru have amazing AWD systems my family had a subaru and our rav 4 even with 4wd lock it was no where near as confidence inspiring with winter tires it is a beast but still Subaru wins I will stick with Audi personally just because I enjoy what Audi offers.
Not for torque vectoring, not really. Depending on the Subaru model, from what I've been able to find, some of them use a viscous plate (presumably clutch pack) center differential and then uses brake torque vectoring which means that it is like 90%+ IDENTICAL to this system (the difference being I'm not sure if the center diff in the Subarus have crown/ring gears.) But otherwise, they're (effectively) identical.
I can see that the Audi Quattro made the climb but i just watched another clip of a BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi Qauttro on a level surface with roller under 3 wheels and it could not get out.
in deep snow - you actually need to turn the ESP off... the tires need to spin. I just did that today actually in our A5... Was plowed in but able to move out without shoveling after 2-3 minutes... Would have gotten out faster - but the A5 sits low to the ground. On ice though - you do need the traction control/ESP on...
i think i know which video you are talking about. i read that it was a bmw-xdrive-promo and they might have turned off the ESP on the audi there. i dont know if thats correct or even if ESP has something to to with quattro not working in this particular video
Thank you for making this vid. When people think of all wheel drive they think of Audi. When people think of BMW they think of immaturity drifting in circles. Look at what BMW is doing now by adding awd to their performance cars, as is Mercedes and they are both doing that because they are losing sales to Audi.
so different diff or not? I'm asking does a S class Q series share the same diff and tranny as a regular Q series. I know HP and TQ is higher, that's just stating the obvious lol
As far as I know, the majority of S versions of the Q and A cars (with longitudinal motor layout) use the same differentials; with the exception of RS cars, which have a modified torsen centre with crown gear. There is an optional 'sport' differential (rear only) on some models, which is an electronically controlled mechanical LSD.
Rick Reid In the past I would always change which big German luxury car maker was my favorite between Merc, BMW, and Audi. First it was BMW, then Merc, then Audi, then back to BMW. Then I drove an Audi.... all I can say is "wow." I haven't been able to go back since. I driven the other two, but no car I've driven compares to the Audi. (In my opinion.) It's even worse when I have to drive most regular American made cars. I almost feel bad for other people when they don't have an Audi, because they just drive so nice. I know they might like theirs better, but I hope I'll never have to change back from an Audi. - Message from an owner of a B7 Audi A4.
drewditty. Your comment just shows how uneducated you are on the topic of the system being demonstrated. I'd suggest watching more videos like this so you understand the purpose of this system and what it's designed for.
drewditty. First... I'm going to assume the ( when I learn how to read ) part was just intended as an insult, otherwise another uneducated part to your comment. Secondly... This tests soul purpose is to show the viewer what the car is doing in these scenarios! It's pretty tricky to showcase this technology at 80mph, (yes sarcasm) and last but not least... if you were smart enough you would realise that this is what the cars computers and drivetrain does at any speed, like i said before this setup is purely for demonstration purposes.
drewditty. It's Hillary btw, (if you learnt how to read) you'd of see that mistake! Sorry couldn't help myself. I've already read parts of the link! If I'm honest I don't understand the reasoning behind sending me that link, what are you actually trying to point out?
They did use an SQ5, the X3 doesn't have any engine in it's range that provides similar torque. This Audi might have cleared the test just because of it's enormous torque. A regular 2liter engine Q5 probably would have failed or they would have done the test in a vehicle most people are likely to own.
people seem to not appreciate this test but i recommend you to watch a video of JDM 4wd and how that thing standard fail everytime front wheels lose grip, in other cases is when the rear wheels lose grip, front wheels just cant do nothing.
Torsen is the best in real world, being a proactive system (virtually no lag). All others (haldex, xdrive) are reactive systems (not permanent 4x4 unless slip is detected or predicted).
Audi needs to do this to prove it self. This is fake propaganda. I have owned Audis and Bmws and both systems are just as good. Just remember one thing most cheaper audis use haldex systems.
Antonio Talarico you dont know shit! som quattro system like the a3 and tt have haldex but a4 and a6 and most other real quattro systems have thorsen diff so you dont realy know what you are tallking about😅
The A3 and the TT use Haldex. The Q7 uses something else. The rest use Torsen. The difference between xdrive and Quattro is pretty negligible. But BMW made a video trying to make the Audi look bad, and this is a video proving that it's false.
I am a Audi sq5 owner. I can say Quattro can't do anything when there is a lot of snow. I have been stuck in the snow a lot of time and i am very disappointed. But other than that. I like my SQ5
Speaking from a reliability perspective, Audi FTW. Why would anybody want an electronic active diff BMW/Acura in a truck? there are plenty of Audi's running around with 100's of thousands of miles on them and the AWD stuff is rarely the problem. Be glad you have choices! I'm sticking with what has been proven for my hard earned $ and getting stuck in an Audi lol plz go drive one.
Don't really know why , maybe because exterior desigh of BMW and Honda were more cooler while Audi use very conventional design that comfortable and look nice while BMW and Honda change their exterior design in all new design cars . but i could say the FAN mean Fanboy kind off like Porsche fan or BMW fan like my girlfriends she's loved BMW soo much i don't really know why even i'm force her to explaining it it's still muddy mythty not really clear answers . I personally not kind of Audi fan but Aston Martin fan very fan i could say but i'm trust Audi more than Porsche and BMW because of it Quattro system , it's just that BMW Mercedes and Audi is very reliable anyway and it's very safe to but i can't really determine but as i say I trust Quattro .
no, it doesn't. It sends power to both axles all the time, but wheel power is slightly delayed, left to right depending on traction. Equal length axles, means almost instant power switching left to right. But probably the best cheap AWD on the planet is inside subarus.
Of course this gentleman knows his work - and I'm not saying he's providing wrong information - but I don't think that "torque is being SENT anywhere". I have a 2008 A6 Allroad 3.0TDI manual - which is ABOUT the same generation of quattro as this Q5 (or SQ5 in this case) - and on my car, there's a centre self-locking torsen differential - as is on all quattros I think (except on those with transverse engine - which aren't really quattros). I've been stuck in the mud going uphill several times - and what the car does - is it initially slips and struggles - but when you keep the gas on, after some seconds it simply drives out of any mud (provided it's not high-centered) - because the torsen self-locks, I think. That moment is usually pretty surprising - huh, so you still did this, audi. Correct me if I'm wrong - but I think there's nothing specifically being "sent" anywhere - just the Torsen doing its job.
Audi calls it self locking center differential but torsen never locks. It may remain "tight" up to its TBR and that's it. What you feel after few seconds is EDL intervention, which helps in situations when TBR is exceeded.
I dont believe the SQ5 has the crown gear center differential. Quattro permanent AWD with torque vectoring is all i can find online. Besides its the EDL system that's doing most of the work. In most of the pro BMW videos it seems this system is disabled or they electorate beyond its operating speed of 50mph so it will not engage. This video at the very least doesn't try to fling mud in anyone's face.
Samuel Pearl a little more than 1 meter, the height of mans waist is around the highest point of the ramp. and then you can calculate the angle because the ramp length is about 6 meters
+NIGHTMAREuki Audi uses two different type of AWD-system. For cars where the engine in horizontally aligned or from left side to right side, they use Haldex-clutch which is 2WD with assisting rear-wheels (max 50% I think) in worst scenarios. Kinda like a cheap man's 4WD if you ask me. Instead for those cars with engine aligned on rear-front axis Audi uses Torsen AWD-system which is one of the best AWDs there have been since the 80s etc.
I have a 16 year old Audi a4 Quattro. Cosmetically not great anymore, 16 years of salt and grocery bags will do something to the paint job. But the suspension, brake system, steering, gearbox, engine is all as if it was new. Fantastic car to drive. Dont bash Audi.
You have a nice ride, but I think Mercs has to compete with Audi and Bmw, not Jeep JKs or Defenders, which are intended for continuos 4x4 use. I know nowadays SUVs are equipped with the most sophisticated traction systems however, a real 4x4 also has to offer ground clearance, articulation and toughness, good tires too. My AWD CX5 just got the tire blowout and rim bent when I passed a lane delineator at 35mph, I wonder what can happen if I try to cross a creek with it.
So if I understand correctly, BMW did this with no wheel-spin at all, while Audi wheels were spinning for a good 2-3 seconds which is more than enough time to dig a hole in mud and get stuck.
Good for them! Shame they didn't throw an X3 or GLK on there to make it a legitimate comparison video. All they did was show that the Audi can do that, making zero attempt to show whether it's actually superior to the competition.
