Race vs Freestyle Builds: Discussion

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Some of the top freestyle and racing pilots in the industry discuss the differences between their preferred builds.
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-Pilots / Hosts
Kevin Dougherty [StingersSwarm] / stingersswarm
Joshua Bardwell [Knowitall]
/ joshuabardwell
Alex Vanover [CaptainVanover]
/ @captainvanover9237
Zachry Thayer [A_Nub]
/ anuub
Drew Camden [Le Drib]
/ @ledribfpv
Production Team
Chad Kapper - Executive Producer
Christian Kapper - Editor
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Опубликовано:

23 авг 2018

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Комментарии : 346

@umop3plsdn Год назад

Can we get an updated hardcore discussion like this again? there has been SOOOOO much advancement it would be nice to see

@Derickandlannyfpv 9 месяцев назад

yes please

@heathenfpv206 5 лет назад

im laughing at Vanover jus shaking his head in disagreement with almost every point being made lol

@headcrab980 3 года назад

It's like... just be a better pilot. He's right though.

@ozner1981 3 года назад

Right in almost everything??? Where he is a great pilot but pilots not always know all whats behind their machines.... t

@JonJaques0 2 года назад

"I don't use smoke-stoppers cause I'm a savage." Dude is a savant (and is probably right), he's like, 'these nerds talking about numbers', lolol

@p39483 Год назад

Agree with the racer. The only thing higher rotor loading is good for is gusty wind. And I didn't even hear anyone mention that.

@WarChest 5 лет назад

This is *hands down* the best *serious* discussion I’ve seen about miniquad setups and methodologies between freestyle and racing period. I’m bookmarking this so I can rewatch this again with my friends.

@StacemanFPV 5 лет назад

Yep! Love these types of videos. Great discussion.

@ericboivin623 5 лет назад

Thanks a lot of you guys, always interesting to learn about FPV . Thinking to join you to a kwad camp these days. Faf

@amydpnw 4 года назад

Agreed. I know nothing about FPV, freestyle or racing but I learn so very much about it.

@afrog2666 5 лет назад

Vanover`s reaction to the freestylers`s quad weigh was like an F-1 driver reacting to the weight of a nascar lmao. Really cool to see the priorities the pro`s have, and what the preferences are for not only the types, but the different people. Me:watches youtube reviews and goes, "hmmm, Hawk 5 or Buzz?" (had a Hawk in checkout, then bills happened :/ but hey, the weather has been crap anyway so..)

@TheFatsoo 3 года назад

I’m gunna listen to the kid. The unbiased difference between each pilots information are the results which have been accomplished directly compared to any a-posing theory. In other words; racing is the foundation of any freestyle in any medium. He is not speaking opinion, what he likes, or what he enjoys flying. He is talking about successful results in the top skill level. I respect all of these top level pilots and their willingness to share the theories which make the benchmark for their preferred discipline of flying. But when theories contradict; I know the racer or racing discipline leaves little room for opinion. If you take your opinion to a race, you will leave with one of two; a changed opinion or a proven race advantage. Either way, opinions morph into fact or failure somewhere between the start and finish line. The kid is the only one that Understands this perspective (josh excluded; of coarse). But you are all inspiring, supernaturally skilled pilots setting the benchmark for the sport. Thankyou for sharing!

@madpoet 5 лет назад

Thanks guys, I appreciate you taking the time to shoot and post this!

@desyquintero8451 4 года назад

old guys: Our math and theories say blah blah blah blah Young kid: Hold my beer old guys

@bellyacre1 5 лет назад

A frame designer demonstrated that if you tilt a short kwad on a 20 degree angle. The rear prop catches air turbulance from the front. A longer x on the same angle. Lifts the following props through cleaner air. No difference on straight punch out. But, much more efficient for forward movement. I believe this theory.

@aquadslifefpveee5892 5 лет назад

I got into this hobby 6 months ago or so. All I wanted to do was fly and remember thinking, who cares about all that deep mumbo jumbo stuff. NOW, just a short time later, I can't get enough of the nuts and bolts aspect of the hobby! Because of guy's like y'all, Steele, and Rotor Riot, I have been able to take this hobby to the next level. Thanks to y'all, my Fpv experience is beyond awesome! Thanks for doing what you do!!

@maxiemusfpv198 5 лет назад

Where would we be without Rotor Riot? How would we get this information, who would be get educated on all this ,who would bring freestylers and racers together. Thankyou Rotor Riot for all youve done for the community.

@anthonynapoleoncomeau3994 4 года назад

yes!

@MxJavice 4 года назад

When talking about the different frame styles, takes me back to my days of archery, where a long rod (stabiliser) with weights on the end would effectively slow down your movement of the bow when aiming, more weight as long as your strength and endurance can handle it mean't essentially aiming became less twitchy and easier to hold on target. Same physics principle regarding arm length and stretched X frames etc.

@PaneInTheGlass 5 лет назад

I'm rotor riot and welcome to Joshua Bardwell

@jacobshepherd3997 5 лет назад

and you're gonna learn something today

@upplsuckimcool16 4 года назад

@@jacobshepherd3997 damn you stole it.

@eliavedri7876 4 года назад

25:50 Basically, it's like a Ice Skating dancer, when he stretches his arms he spins slowly, and the closer he pulls his arms to his body (the center of mass) he starts to spin faster, the same principlee. I think lol

@mike216ism 3 года назад

You rotor riot guys are fantastic for the hobby. JB has been there for us all for a while now. Love you Betaflight Devs out there. Betaflight has become so amazing. Given so much to the community

@TheDanyschannel 5 лет назад

Short answer: a system of higher order non-linear differential equations

@afrog2666 5 лет назад

Not practically giving an answer to any of the issues being discussed, so no, that is not the short answer, as it`s not actually an answer. That`s a summary definition of the math involved, not an answer to "race VS freestyle".

@lukasbarauskas4408 4 года назад

@@afrog2666 r/woosh

@nategoodwin3329 4 года назад

Well balls...

@Matty__Matt 5 лет назад

I love how passionate they are! They all get so amped up when they talk! I love it!

@AlTofanelli 5 лет назад

Great show! It would be great to have more of these types of discussions.

@jonpacheco7581 5 лет назад

I really liked this discussion but when you guys were talking about the different frame styles and sizes you all forgot to mention how it keeps the “dirty air” from the front props from affecting the rear props. I still learned a lot from this video. Thanks guys!🤙🏽👍🏽😃

@ufopilotFPV 3 года назад

Well the trouble is with stretch frames the 2 front motors and 2 rear motors are so close together that they affect each other in a bad way.. so you are correct in theory, that the front props dont affect the back props, but they do have a big sideways effect.. i just transfered a quad from true x to stretch x.. and it flies awful, i have to force it round every corner, it is faster, but not enjoyable to fly.

@1337flite 5 лет назад

Yeah I agree with Anub - small props on a bigger ride is a smoother feel. When people ask 5" or 6" I always say 6" because you can fly either prop and you lose nothing when you are flying it 5". So for flexibility a 6" with 2150KV lets you fly great with 4s or 5s and 5" or 6S so if you have 4s and 5s batterys you can go from fairly docile long(er) range 6" to zippy 5" and anything in between. I really like Anub's approach to this - if I'm not subscribed to his channel I'm about to subscribe - hope he does lot's of talking head stuff.

@robcarnaroli269 5 лет назад

Most interesting conversation I've watched in a long time. Good job!

@Jdogg5343 5 лет назад

This is a great video and panel to touch on the common missconceptions of freestyle vs racing! Thanks guys!

@HattashFpv 4 года назад

This was an amazing discussion!! Not many videos like this! Keep up the great!

@pavvZed 5 лет назад

Love how logically Joshua explains details. Thanks for this discussion guys!

@pspicer777 5 лет назад

Love to see this discussion - nice to see the young man being so articulate. Never thought about drag to mass (weight) ratio...

@miniquadsmegafun3619 5 лет назад

Love comparing the two build types!!! Each are extremely fun in very different ways :) great stuff guys!!

@Padraignotlad 5 лет назад

That was a great discussion. So many variables.... I love this hobby.

@zacharyrib 5 лет назад

The best discussion about quads I've seen to date!!! Great video Guys!!!! Was odd knowing Drib was there and didn't get to hear his opinion on all of this... Liked the format too...

@scottmarshall6766 5 лет назад

Very informative. More of this kind of content please!

@EdiFries 4 года назад

Fantastic video. Thanks for such a great discussion.

@NQISSteve 5 лет назад

Now that was a great episode!

@M4TTFPV 5 лет назад

Very interesting, I have my first event next week but have been practicing hitting Gates. I had to get rid of my stretched X bottom mount because I just could not fly it well. So my first event will be covered with 2 top mounted chameleons which I have far more control over

@tehllama42 5 лет назад

I think the biggest thing that Stingy and Zach hit on is actually the best takeaway for a newer pilot - if you like the feel of one family of propeller, then sticking with those is going to work really well if you vary what you are looking to do. Optimizing the efficiency range for your setup to how much throttle you're actually using AND how much time you're spending at what AoA (i.e. unloaded, or backing into turns on tight race courses) is really key... and being able to do that without relearning the feel of the props - how they transition from loaded to unloaded, or react in propwash - so sticking with one prop family makes tons of sense. HQ V1S: 5x4x3, 5x4.3x3, 5x4.5x3, 5x4.8x3, 5x5x3 - full range of excellent, light, snappy props DAL Cyclone: T5040C, T5045C, T5046C, T5050C - my preference are the V2 5046 cyclones

@Pirxfpv 5 лет назад

Super informative! Excellent episode guys.

@earlhelm515 5 лет назад

Great discussion guys. Thanks. There is still a lot of personal preference involved and much of it is subjective. I learned a lot from everyone's different approaches and ideas. I now have some new things to try.

@DJDevine 5 лет назад

At 28:20 he nailed it. The one that feels the best! Flown all and a stretch X at 500g AUW seems to work for me... it's a bottom mount, although I do prefer top mount rigs and still fly a qav 220 squishedX on my 3rd bottom plate, no arms needed yet! Great chat... Cheers

@upplsuckimcool16 4 года назад

YES around 13 minutes in the guy talks about how efficiency. I recently took my 3 inch down from 3052's to 3028's thinking i'd get more battery life, and instead what happened is that I got A LOT LESS battery life! I needed more throttle to hover, the motors had to spin much faster, I even had to increase filtering because the motors were getting too hot. It was very surprising but in the end made a lot of sense.

@peterclarke5323 5 лет назад

Really enjoyed this. More of this.

@HillbillyonaYZ 5 лет назад

Prop pitch.. In a theoretical no slip environment. a 5x4.3x3 prop would move forward 4.3 inches for every revolution. A 5051 would move forward 5.1 inches for every revolution. In reality we don't live in a "no slip environment", so other things in prop design come into play to minimize the slip that will always be there to some extent. But that is the "nutshell" explanation of "prop pitch"..

@smooth_ops2942 5 лет назад

Thanks for the laymans terms on prop pitch theory, when you describe the numbers it makes a lot of sense.

@forzanoob 4 года назад

Damn glad to see this. I always thought it was how high or tall the blade is at its highest point

@juanperez1189 5 лет назад

Awesome video guys!! Totally engaged in this debate. Great information.

@Funcentric 3 года назад

Wow, stuff like this is super valuable. Keep up videos like this!

@ozrik2004 5 лет назад

Awesome discussion. Love it. Thanks guys.

@jz-ez7wx 5 лет назад

You guys nailed it, I’ve been flying the stingy frame for 10 months now & will be flying it at my first event happening tomorrow

@madnessfpv30 5 лет назад

Love the discussion! This hobby needs people talking about "things".but At some point if your are in the hobby you get it. I mean, of course parameters like weight, kv or else, change the beaviour of your qwad! Did everybody use expo!? RC rate? PID? I got it is pro pilot taking. Anyway I am also drunk and I enjoy a lot rotor riot's video.... Drone freestyle or racing, is like mario kart double Dash. Donkey or toad! Style or speed

@ZoomZoom8th 5 лет назад

I need more stuff like this.

@scooterfpv8864 5 лет назад

This is a video for FPV drones needed of epic proportions to resonate throughout time . Guaranteed .

@craigwmiller 4 года назад

Excellent discussion, thanks guys!

@David__ 5 лет назад

Great discussion guys! Thanks for sharing :)

@fpvshowdown9545 5 лет назад

yes. do more like this.

@DangerDavefpv 5 лет назад

awesome talk and alot of this is correct because i started off wanting to race but due to issues with my limited amount of travel money it was easier for I to just do freestyle.

@KingFPV 5 лет назад

Excellent episode. Had to watch til the end.

@hoverbotfpv1425 4 года назад

Momentum of a heavy quad will carry speed better than a little quad. Also glide factor of the belly pan of body can increase float.

@michaelklages4367 5 лет назад

Most informative video i have seen in a while👌

@marcusdutra7091 5 лет назад

Agree that streched X are faster than true or compressed x and l believe that is because they have less drag (think of a swimmer jumping in the pool like an arrow and a parachuter jumping with arms wide opened).

@atlanticwoodsman8347 5 лет назад

Wow that was a great discussion..all in all everyone has to find there own sweet spot.. We need something like that in Canada

@jpfpv287 5 лет назад

glad you made this

@MrStevegibb 5 лет назад

The problem with frames that get too small is not just the leverage issue but also the props start interacting and upsetting each other and this is completely not what you want to happen. Each corner needs to be able to do its own thing without changing or interacting with one of the other corners or otherwise the stabilization calculations become massively less effective.

@brookecarrillo2654 5 лет назад

Thanks people that was packed with information in a way none super geeks can understand it keep it up

@nonenone51 5 лет назад

Very interesting Video - Thank You Guys!!

@mike216ism 3 года назад

Catalyst machine works raging droner is my favorite geometry. I love my 3,4 and 5" slam nasty frames second. I use racing frames for freestyle. Definitely love this combo

@SgtScrewup000 5 лет назад

Best overall frame for race and freestyle: Hyperlite Floss 2 with 6" arms running 5" props. You can toilet tank the battery and have a gopro without worrying about chopping your power leads. Its a lightweight frame with 5mm boomerang arms so definitely durable and easy to swap out if you do break something. Also Im a little sad that they didnt touch on propwash when discussing frame footprint sizes.

@ejohn420 5 лет назад

Seriously though floss 2.1 with 5mm boomerang arms is the best frame out there. Strong, lightweight, fast. Does everything. Race, freestyle, long range. Top mount, bottom mount. 45 bucks. Also running 6 inch with 5 inch props. Love it.

@tehllama42 5 лет назад

Another data point - my best flying stuff are my Floss2.1 6" running 5" props. Despite cheap beater motors/esc/FC/VTX/camera on these builds, I can do everything with that setup.

@spawnbe2622 5 лет назад

Very interesting discussion 👍

@staticfpv881 5 лет назад

We need more debate videos like this . So much information !

@billdor121 5 лет назад

From my experience, the RMRC Valorem is my sweet spot for a good racing/freestyle quad. I put the 5mm stretched x arms on that thing and it's been great

@noname-wo9yy 4 года назад

So to summarise the difference is basically the energy required to change the momentum of the quad-copter, the faster you change the state the less efficient it becomes but in certain applications you need a faster state change so its about optimising the energy required to do that.

@XHover 5 лет назад

Great episode guys!

@softsmoken 5 лет назад

more challenging doesnt mean slower, but easier has its benefits! if you control it through the small space youll gain/keep more speed but i understand its a balance, different for everyone. i like the downpitch the prop solution for that, simple functional. i think hes got the right idea.

@SOLARFPV 5 лет назад

Thanks for the brainstorm

@DavidOwensuk 5 лет назад

Very good interviews!

@dan71559 2 года назад

He's right the Avan R is super pitched but totally efficient. I fly them all the time. What he doesn't speak of is how incredibly tough they are.

@bicky420 5 лет назад

Great vid, I hit like the minute I saw the cast. Alex, I am still hoping to run into you at a park in the metroplex, and as for everyone else - just plain rock on.

@Wildicon19 4 года назад

Awesome discussion guys, It is an educational experience from some of the best FPV pilots out there! LTRIP!™

@cheshirerc 5 лет назад

Brilliant, enjoyed that.

@philipjenkinsDjiflyer 10 месяцев назад

Man nice catch on that last crash lol looking good bro i can tell u r getting Is comfortable there

@-sickfast434 4 года назад

100% best vlog loved lots of great tips,lots learned thx rr

@rl2769 5 лет назад

Great discussion guys 👍

@GrisDismation 5 лет назад

Cool! Very informative info!

@simonjardine 5 лет назад

Thanks for taking the time to discuss frames :-) I still think you guys are missing something, firstly Aerodynamics and secondly the true CG of the drone, the battery is the heaviest, this should be in the very centre of all motor axis.... Having aerodynamic booms also makes the machine track better, it's also 30-40% quieter... You can test this theory with some little bits of foam and tape above and under the boom. Crude but you'll see the difference. Lastly!! a TRUE PLUS frame is MUCH better at just about everything. These X machines, stretch, squished is all just a trend....:-) Cheers guys!! Happy flying !!!!

@ClaudioPozoVeloso 5 лет назад

Great talk guys

@sjd5104 5 лет назад

Great discussion

@WCO3 5 лет назад

love how the captain is Sooo annoyed by anything that's not about speed, efficiency, lightweight and lap times.lol And it's totally blatantly obvious on his face,,,He just can't be bothered. 👍😂✌

@yinzerfpv5764 5 лет назад

You can almost hear him roll his eyes lol!

@vojtechvejsicky1819 5 лет назад

Lol

@KILLERBSKI 5 лет назад

He a young millennial and can’t be bothered with thoughts that are not of his own. He’s also unfortunately a very good racing pilot which just makes him arrogant in his young age. Three adults and a child talking about multi-rotors

@MrSutekii 5 лет назад

I personally dont believe having the absolute lightest setup is the be all. Take a look at Thomas Bitmatta, he has taken out international championships with a quad most racers wouldnt even consider simply because its 100g heavier than what a lot of the racers out there are using

@TheConquistor 5 лет назад

well said nicolai

@Tappotuoppi 5 лет назад

Great episode

@yinzerfpv5764 5 лет назад

We need more of Zach. Dude's a damn encyclopedia for miniquads.

@HamptonFPV 5 лет назад

This was great! Love hearing the opinions of these great pilots. Only complaint is that the camera was really shaky and kinda hard to watch.

@flo-ridafpv5713 5 лет назад

I freestyle a sub 300g racing frame on 3s 1300 2600 kv and love it

@caseydimmitt2449 5 лет назад

What's your flight time on your setup? Prop choice?

@flo-ridafpv5713 5 лет назад

I have 2, a 5 & 6"...5" I get 5 mins w punches or 8 mins cruisin on gate breakers lipo rest at 3.72, graphenes 6" Gemfan 6042 tris or 6" gate breakers, they most efficent tris, I've tried tonz. banggood has clones, they pretty good n cheap, not as efficent tho, less pitchy design

@abstractfpv1532 5 лет назад

Great vid guys

@jayqfpv6835 5 лет назад

very interesting episode!

@2lowfpv471 5 лет назад

If you want a frame that you can use for a little bit of racing and freestyle, use a FlosStyle. Battery bottom OR top, relatively light weight AND not too easy to break.

@havoc_64 5 лет назад

Now one of my favorite videos! I learned a lot, esp about props, more table talks like this please! Also, can someone comment what the filters that all the gopros have stuck to them are? Are they just lens protectors? What brand?? Thanks!

@amisoftau2659 5 лет назад

Sometimes just protector but usually ND filters.. gives improved footage depending on the daylight intensity. It's a photography thing, so plenty of info out there. Try RU-vid search for something like "fpv nd filter". Cheers.

@havoc_64 5 лет назад

amisoftau yep, all about ND filters as I am a photog....just was wondering what product you were using

@Kyo-bd4tw 5 лет назад

You feel free when you do freestyle

@ignatiusjohn_ 5 лет назад

Jonathan Powell ABSOLUTELY! 👊🏼

@Wilhuff_T 4 года назад

I concur.

@Kyo-bd4tw 3 года назад

I don't remember commenting this. Wow 2 years 😳😳😳

@tehllama42 5 лет назад

I didn't realize Zachry and Sage were cousins - that is awesome. I did learn something... although that's about all I learned.

@ufopilotFPV 3 года назад

lol i learned that Freestylers dont have a clue about racing quads and that race pilots know that Freestylers dont have a clue LMAO

@OswaldBeef 5 лет назад

I’m convinced now even more with the stater motor size references and all this fantastic explanations about so many aspects. In a year we are all going to be flying and racing combo split HD cams on 4” props on massive motors we would now think proper for 5-6” quads but on ultralight 180mm frames. Someone make,this damn qwaad for me to buy! Serious I’m right aren’t I? A quad with so many amps to spare? And the racer in s blue shirt likes more expo on pitch but doesn’t want to actually have to set the expo on his pitch higher....So he enjoys a stretched X. Doesn’t that make sense? The tech has broken through the thrust weight stability game so I want it now.

@AutoBodyEverything 4 года назад

Has one ever use a light drone and add weight if they need to or counterweight the drone? Also can you talk about weigh balance?

@3maneu229 4 года назад

Hi guys. Sorry but any chance to create a kind of a chart motor/ prop/ battery/ kwad weight. I know it is quiet a lot to ask for but you are among the most knowledge able i know. Thanks.

@erwinsetiawan3792 4 года назад

i watch this vid in 2019 and i believe what the world champ said about racing quad

@BirdlessFlight 5 лет назад

Heyo, big up for putting 5inch props on a 7inch frame!

@tomasberanek2728 5 лет назад

Is actualy that 7inch quad running 5inch props good in flying? I like the idea to run 6inch frame with 5inch props...i like the way that there is more distance between props and frame...so less chance to prop can hit something

@3-danything977 5 лет назад

Great video

@monkfry 5 лет назад

That was hilarious and great!

@ProjectMockingbird 5 лет назад

OMG, we should do this with Whoops! Silverware, Mockingbird, ducts, yaw washout, props out, motor size brushless or brushed... And on and on! 😜

@rileyaok8604 5 лет назад

Great video, cool to hear information on racing. I need to buy 10 stretched X's now lol. (buying 1) "How many quads do you bring to a race, don't be embarrassed" haha quote of the video. ty Joshua