Racial Options in Dnd 5e: Tier Ranks (The Final Chapter?)

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The Final Rankings:
S
Fairy (MotM) - 135 points
Winged Tiefling (SCAG) 132 points
Aaracocra (MotM) - 130 points
Shadar Kai (MotM) - 128 points
Aasimar (MotM) - 125 points
Gem Dragonborn (Fizban’s treasury of dragons) - 123 points
Owlin (Strixhaven) - 119 points
Custom Lineage (Tasha’s) - 115 points
Bugbear (MotM) - 112 points
Human Variant (PHB) - 110 points
Harengon (MotM) - 109 points
Dhampir (Ravenloft) - 108 points
Eladrin (MotM) - 106 points
Yuan Ti (MotM) - 99 points
Goblin (MotM) - 98 points
Astral Elf - 96 points
A
Plasmoid (Spelljammer) - 92 points
Air Genasi (MotM) - 91 points
Hobgoblin (MotM) - 90 points
Autognome (Spelljammer) - 88 points
Lotusden Halfling (Wildemount) - 88 points
Reborn - 86 points
Triton (MotM) - 85 points
Githzerai (MotM) - 84 points
Grung (one grung above) - 84 points
Tabaxi (MotM) - 83 points
Satyr (MotM) - 79 points
Stout Halfling (PHB) - 77 points
Warforged (Eberron rising from the last war) - 77 points
Metallic Dragonborn (Fizban’s treasury of dragons) - 77 points
Centaur (MotM) - 75 points
Duergar (MotM) - 75 points
Sea Elf (MotM) - 74 points
B
Earth Genasi (MotM) - 71 points
Giff (Spelljammer) - 71 points
Deep Gnome (MotM) - 70 points
Wood Elf (PHB) - 68 points
Tri Kreen (Spelljammer) - 68 points
Eladrin (DMG) - 68 points
Pallid Elf (Wildemount) - 67 points
Chromatic Dragonborn (Fizban’s treasury of dragons) - 67 points
Hexblood (Ravenloft) - 66 points
Firbolg (MotM) - 65 points
Githyanki (MotM)- 65 points
Kobold (MotM) - 65 points
Water Genasi (MotM) - 65 points
Mountain Dwarf (PHB) - 65 points
Orc (MotM) - 65 points
Kender (Dragonlance) - 64 points
C
Loxodon (Ravnica) - 62 points
Ghostwise Halfling (Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) - 62 points
Tortle (MotM) - 61 points
Changeling (MotM) - 60 points
Lightfoot Halfling (PHB) - 60 points
Lizardfolk (MotM) - 59 points
Vedalken (Ravnica) - 58 points
Verdan (Aquisitions Inc) - 57 points
Hill-Dwarf (PHB) - 55 points
Kalashtar (Eberron rising from the last war) - 55 points
Half-Orc (PHB) - 54 points
Locathah (Locathah rising) - 54 points
Hadozee (Spelljammer) - 51 points
Goliath (MotM) - 50 points
Half-Elf (PHB) - 50 points
Minotaur (MotM) - 50 points
D
Tiefling (PHB) - 49 points
Leonin (Mythic Odysseys of Theros) - 49 points
Simic Hybrid (Ravnica) - 48 points
High-Elf (PHB) - 46 points
Drow Elf (PHB) - 46 points
Fire Genasi (MotM) - 45 points
Shifter (MotM) - 45 points
Kenku (MotM) - 41 points
Forest Gnome (PHB) - 35 points
Human (PHB) - 30 points
Rock Gnome (PHB) - 30 points
Dragonborn (PHB) - 27 points
Dragonborn (Draconblood) (Wildemount) - 25 points
Dragonborn (Ravenite) (Wildemount) - 25 points
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:39 Custom Lineage
3:44 Eladrin (DMG)
4:55 Kender
6:10 Dragonborn (Chromatic)
7:36 Dragonborn (Gem)
8:48 Dragonborn (Metallic)
9:48 Grung
12:25 Owlin
13:21 Leonin
14:35 Locathah
16:41 Verdan
17:52 Lineages
18:46 Dhampir
20:19 Hexblood
21:11 Reborn
23:11 Housecleaning
26:03 What If?
26:28 Reviewing the Results
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Опубликовано:

3 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 192

@williamwalton9154 Год назад

And here I thought my winged Tiefling Barbarian was just fun and not the 2 most optimal option of all. Neet.

@LoreFoundry Год назад

What a awesome character. Gotta love embracing your fiendish nature and unleashing it on your enemies.

@williamwalton9154 Год назад

@yevgeniymuskevich9179 She has been a lot of fun. She was just a member of the "C" team of the main group's Adventure Guild but has since been adopted by the now epic level leader from the previous campaign.

@LoreFoundry Год назад

@@williamwalton9154 was the character a zealot barb?

@williamwalton9154 Год назад

@yevgeniymuskevich9179 wasn't at first but is now to better fit the RP. Background change as well. Adopted by a Noble Litch Necromancer who doesn't give my character permission to stay dead.

@theresnoracelikegnome Год назад

Worth noting that while the Grung only suffers exhaustion if it can’t submerge itself, the Locathah actually dies. I think this creates an interesting problem. Either the DM simply makes sure this never comes up, in which case it’s a -0 penalty, or they don’t interfere, in which case it will almost certainly come up at some point, making it a pretty huge deal. The problem with this is that it isn’t just a penalty to the race, it’s a penalty to the DM’s ability to run the game, because you’re basically forcing them to avoid any situation where this could happen. All that being said, it’s also worth noting that, unlike the Grung, the Locathah only needs to be submerged for one second every four hours.

@foldionepapyrus3441 Год назад

I don't think it bothers the DM's ability to run the game - it forces the PC's to come up with ways to get around their restrictions as it comes up, and really gives an interesting mechanic they have to work around.

@MaximanLP Год назад

I have a player who chose locathah just for fun. Since I only have a 3 person party, I gave the others a potion of healing and the locathah a decanter of endless water without the geyser function. They're all newbies so I don't really have any reason to worry about them potentially abusing it.

@Spruble Год назад

My contingency play as Grug is to get 1lvp dip in druid. So I can create water + Shape Water or Mold earth into a bathtub.

@morganpetros9635 Год назад

Depending on environment, this could be a *HUGE* problem at early levels, where even the Create/Destroy Water spell (which I would argue could satisfy the "one second immersion" problem) can't be cast six times per day unless the party consists entirely of clerics and druids, all of whom are willing to dedicate most of all of their spell slots just to keeping the locathah character alive. I suppose a lenient DM might be willing to count the Fog Cloud spell as "immersion," which would open up the party's tactical options a bit, but still it would amount to a *HUGE* expenditure of assets, even at higher levels, and might not even be possible for many parties. Honestly, this could be a huge disadvantage in many campaigns, and I wouldn't play a locathah unless I knew the game was going to be either maritime or almost always close to water. Depending on campaign setting, the locathah's limitations could be crippling or lethal, either to the player or to it's party.

@mariocole8104 Год назад

@@Sprublemy Grung plan was to have 1 lvl in Genielock and fill the vessel with water.

@CivilWarMan Год назад

The most fun thing about the Dhampir's Bite Attack is that since it is explicitly defined as a simple melee weapon, a Dhampir Paladin can smite with it. EDIT: Also, as a simple melee weapon without the 2-handed or heavy property, it counts as a Monk Weapon for Dhampir Monks, so the damage die can increase with Monk level and you can use the bonus action Martial Arts attack after biting, though the Monk would still need to use Constitution to attack with it instead of Dexterity, since RAW Martial Arts specifies that you can use Dexterity instead of Strength for attacking with a Monk weapon.

@WizardVolovik Год назад

Yeah, and I had a character Dhampir swords bard that flourish with teeth. Nhac nhac, a lot of healing and bonuses to rolls when facing a lot of enemies close to me. I used that bonuses especially for intimidation checks, a vibe like "your blood just makes me stronger"

@CivilWarMan Год назад

@@WizardVolovik Swords Bard flourishes are also a good catch. Flourishes buff the secondary healing and ability check boost of the attack by adding to the piercing damage of it. Same with Battle Master maneuvers and the bite qualifying as a Monk Weapon.

@WizardVolovik Год назад

@@CivilWarMan also, I think Kensei monk choosing teeth as kensei weapon is the best optimization for Dhampir's bite. +3 fangs, magical. That's a character that can have the ultimate hungry, "if something exists, I can eat it!" Edit: also monks are immune to disease and poison, which adds a lot of flavor to eat anything.

@CivilWarMan Год назад

@@WizardVolovik The perfect build combination for anyone who wishes to play a character based on the well-known and beloved DC superhero Matter-Eater Lad.

@brennennestvogel3983 Год назад

If only smites added to the weapon damage instead of adding radiant damage, you could have made an insane ability check to do something like push a giant boulder out of the way or something.

@minivergur Год назад

I became a patron for Treantmonks Temple Where Knowledge is Power and it changed my life! I used to be a loser who used to crawl on the ground, shat myself and just said goo goo ga ga instead of engaging in sophisticated debate about build strategies for DnD - now I have a beautiful wife and a thriving career in computer science.

@mattihyttinen6971 Год назад

The list is great, but I think it doesn't take into account the clustering of ability score bonuses. +2 to one ability score is better than +1 to two ability scores especially with a bonus feat, because allows starting the game with 18 on your primary ability score. I would give custom lineage some extra points because of this. Maybe also a few points for mountain dwarf too.

@KevinVideo Год назад

That would have been within the 125 points given to the feat. If you look at what he gives 40 feet speed and look at the Mobile feat, you know Mobile isn't worth 125 points.

@Notsogoodguitarguy Год назад

I think you missed one thing for Custom Lineage that's a bit hard to quantify. Custom Lineage is THE ONLY option that allows you to start with an 18 in your primary stat. That's worth a bit more than simply a free feat. Especially for casters, since with a caster, it's not that important to have a +3 in 2 places, but it's kind of OP to have +4 in your spellcasting stat. I'd personally give it at least15-20 more points, maybe more, simply due to this fact.

@adamstadick2044 Год назад

It’s not that powerful, it likely only makes enemies fail their save less than 10% more of the time, and you’re giving up your ability to start with a 16 in con or dex. That’s a fairly big draw back as well, and personally the only reason I feel cLineage ranks above vHuman is that they get darkvision, otherwise I’d rather have 16 in both my casting stat and con to help with concentration saves. Like comparatively a vHuman that takes war caster would have a 91% chance to maintain concentration of their spells vs a DC 10 save, whereas a cLineage that takes a half feat would only have a 65% chance to maintain concentration. That’s a very big difference, and I’d much rather have war caster, and by level 4 they should both have 18 casting stats and war caster, but vHuman has 16 con whereas the cLineage just has the part of the half feat other than the ability score, and personally I’d rather have 16 to improve HP, concentration saves, and just general con saves. But darkvision is really useful, so to mean cLineage is better for that reason.

@StarryxNight5 8 месяцев назад

A +1 can make a lot of difference to some characters. Like for example, an Eloquence Bard gets a whole extra Inspiration dice per short rest at level 5. That's a -d8 to a saving throw per short rest. Or at level 6, a guaranteed passed ability check, attack roll, or saving throw that would've otherwise been failed. Potentially a d10+14 damage if you put in on a GWM fighter! Or even more, if they used it on a saving throw that puts them out for a round

@thebitterfig9903 Год назад

Overall a really insightful series. While the “obvious” S-tier races still were rated highly, the points system was illuminating for some unexpectedly good mid-tier races. Lots of races have a bunch of little things, and that can add up pretty quick, even if it isn’t as splashy as a free feat or flight. Reborn is an example in this video, but my favorite is the Air Genasi, where they just have lots and lots of useful smaller things. Since the first MotM video, I’ve been fascinated by the concept of an Air Genasi Artificer who goes into Infiltrator Armorer, since they both give speed bonuses, and Shocking Grasp covers melee reach. Nothing broken, but just a nice and simple good combo.

@matthewvonreighner5762 Год назад

The biggest mistake in this tier chart is that " being an elf" doen't come with a flat -100 points This comment was brought to you by dwarves gang.

@sirroMrM Год назад

So, Owlin + Dhamphir is now in the top currently legal spot. Dhampir - Owlin Speed: +20 Ancestral Legacy: Owlin Flying: +100 Stealth Proficiency: +4 Darkvision: +10 Deathless Nature: +10 Spider Climb: +40 Vampiric Bite: +18 Total: 202 Or if you want to get really busted, you could combine it with the Legacy Aarakocra from your last video. Dhampir - Aarakocra (legacy) Speed: +20 Ancestral Legacy: Aarakocra (legacy) Flying: +170 Darkvision: +10 Deathless Nature: +10 Spider Climb: +40 Vampiric Bite: +18 Total: 268

@Setzer Год назад

I would argue that counting Spider Climb and Flying is basically double dipping. Once you have flight (esp if hover is part of it), how important is Spider Climb?

@BruceStephensonspycer Год назад

I'd argue that spider climb isn't worth as much when you also have always on flying.

@sirroMrM Год назад

Still useful though, you can easily fly up and land anywhere. One thing to remember is that throughout this series that pretty much everything is priced separately following the same rules. This is no different and is therefore inline with the established pricing model. The legacy Aarakocra for instance received the same discount for speed as the halflings did, despite having a flyspeed already.

@jacksonletts3724 Год назад

Called it on the reborn! You mentioned in the first video that one of the D races made it all the way up to A, and people kept telling me it couldn’t be the the reborn after I commented my prediction. Just thought I’d gloat a bit

@memaxNOTyoumax Год назад

Great video Chris, you covered everything really well. Looking forward to your next videos. I would also be curious to see if this deep dive has majorly changed your opinion on any races, and how they stack up in your more subjective view.

@astroboy3291 Год назад

I'm not getting my Half-Elf values presliced and spoonfed? 🤯 I'm encouraged to think for myself? 😱 What has this world become.. 😭

@kencutpro Год назад

I really like how Chris has essentially made a “how to build a custom race” guide in the first video of this series, and shown examples throughout with the established races. You bet I’m going to make a filemaker table of the values of features from the first video and then create a tally function to tell me which tier it sits in! It’s just like building a monster in the dmg with traits giving value results, except 1000000x more clear. Thanks Chris!

@godminnette2 Год назад

I like references to gravity and time in the intro after mentioning Wildemount options.

@atingley0913 Год назад

Two videos in one day! What a good start to the morning! 💜

@luka2784 Год назад

Out of curiosity, I decided to see how the OneDnD races would score. Whenever a feature was the same as one of the races Treantmonk reviewed I used that score, otherwise i based it as best I could on his scoring. I counted the LV1 feat at being part of the race, and always chose alert because that is the highest scoring at 85 (70 is identical to hare trigger, then a low estimate of 15 for the ability to swap initiative) I tried to always choose the most powerful options for each race, assuming that spells are the same as they are in the PHB. These are my results. Note that I am adding 85 to all of them. Human: Inspiration: 10- similar to fortune of the many (40) but only once per long rest, and have to choose before the roll, so halved twice. Skilfull: 5 Feat: (lucky) 50, somewhat equivalent to fortune of the many, but a bit better and more flexible, so 10 more points. Total score, 150 Dwarf: darkvision: 10 Dwarven resilience: 27 Dwarven toughness: 20 Forge wise: 2 Stone cunning: 10 Total: 154 Elf: Darkvision: 10 Fey ancestry: 10 Keen senses: 4 Trance: 10 Elven lineage (wood) Increased movement: 20 Druidcraft: 2 pass without trace: 35 Total: 176 Gnome darkvision: 10 gnomish cunning: 40 Gnome linages (forest gnomes) Minor illusion: 10 speak with animals prof times: 10. Total: 155 Halfling Brave: 10 Halfling nimbleness: 10 Luck: 50 naturally stealthy: 4 Total: 159 Ork adrenaline rush: 25 darkvision: 10 Powerful Build: 5 Relentless Endurance: 25. Total: 150 Tiefling Darkvision: 10 Fiendish legacy fire resistance: 17 firebolt: 7 Hellish rebuke: 8 Darkness: 23 (spells increased over PHB because you can choose ability scores and cast with slots) Totall: 150 Dragonborn Draconic ancestry (red) Breath weapon: 30 Fire resistance: 17 darkvision: 10 Draconic flight: 50 total: 192 Goliath Cloud's Jaunt: 50 Large form: 25 Powerful build: 10 Total: 170

@rogerwilco2 Год назад

Great work. I am always looking forward to your videos!

@deProfundisAdAstra Год назад

One of my favorite series you've ever made. I loved ever video!

@ryanfc Год назад

Loved this series of videos and looking forward to the next two.

@renebenz8876 Год назад

Finally the God droped a new Video. Looking forward for maybe all the Tieflings raked with all the diffrent spells but every Content is worth watching from you. Keep it up ^^

@andrerecamonde7576 Год назад

Your videos always adds a happy moment in my day.

@mcullennz Год назад

Grung is one of my favourites. They benefit from a 1 level dip into fathomless warlock. 40ft swim speed and a short rest spell slot to cast create or destroy water.

@balanceseeker Год назад

I think the major reason for the discrepancy is the method you used to come to a point total is a adding up the features as if they were always additive. Yes, having an extra ability compared to not is better, but the fact of the matter is that specialization is a big part of optimization, and when a race is picked for a build, it isn't often picked for every racial ability but just a handful - sometimes just one. As a result of this method, races with a bundle of otherwise underwhelming abilities are scoring higher than they should. Even when the abilities are not underwhelming, this method still skews things. For instance, the value of poison damage resistance should go down if a race has advantage on poison saving throws, because now poison damage has become more circumstantial. Advantage on such saves would be worth even less on a Grung who is immune to poison damage, but objectively, it would be better because it would help against a stinking cloud spell. Still, I applaud the use of some framework to grade this with, and trying to apply some sort of diminishing returns framework to the scoring system would be difficult and equally arbitrary.

@Porcospino10 Год назад

Yeah like he doesn't account that for the dragonborn the stronger your resistance is the shittier your breath weapon will be

@Negeta Год назад

I’d enjoy a future video reviewing some DM’s Guild races. I always enjoy having some unique custom races in my homebrew world, so it’d be neat to find some options that don’t leap above S-tier or fall below D-tier.

@joshuabiggs9772 Год назад

This list is perfect!

@patrickmcathey7081 Год назад

Thank you for the information. I feel I have different point values then you and will make my own list, thank you for the frame work. I view some of the defences more highly and the non flying movement far less.

@jonathanhaynes9914 Год назад

Thanks Chris

@Marc.Google Год назад

‘Hullabaloo’ =) great vid as always!

@MalloonTarka Год назад

I've been having a lot of fun watching this series.

@weswtf Год назад

I was waiting for this

@pedrogarcia8706 Год назад

This list is great, and the time and attention you put towards it is really admirable. I wonder, is there a list of each of the features and their rankings divorced from the race they come from?

@mgsmk92 Год назад

Fully appreciate the satire added into your videos recently. Keep up the good work.

@jackmcgeehan328 Год назад

"Wait no I didn't, this list is PERFECT!" Love the dry humor

@kelkamer630 Год назад

Hey Chris, Optomancer here. (Been saying it in my head all these years, replying to your opening)

@pranakhan Год назад

Kind of wondering what you have against the Aquisitions Inc. book. As a DM I've used the job and base options to allow players to build into an organization to support their group now in a few campaigns, in different ways. Its a nice money sink for players, gives mid level play some interesting downtime options and RP interactions, and allows players a way to connect with a world in which organizations are generally one-sided affairs (like FR with its shallow faction politics).

@kedraroth Год назад

I would love to see a ranking with One DnD species following this criteria

@The482075 Год назад

It would need to be done with all of the rest of the mechanics available. It is hard to discern which races are better than others without additional context.

@paulknight4450 Год назад

Thank you.

@TedSroka Год назад

Looking forward to seeing you do this all again in 2024 when the new players handbook is released.😅

@whitemansucks Год назад

THANK YOU. Together we can all SAVE the game of D&D.

@samuelteare8160 Год назад

I've played as a grung for a long time. I worked with my DM to get the decanter of endless water and use it with a barrel to sleep in water. It's one of my favorite races.

@Majber Год назад

I would like to see online calc tier list where I can give every feature my own numerical value. It would be awesome.

@mcullennz Год назад

Have you heard of Detect balance or greater detect balance?

@Majber Год назад

@@mcullennz no

@arliss35 Год назад

I've wanted to make a grung character ever since I saw them. I love the jump ability, and I think it could make a fun thing to build around.

@PeteCotton Год назад

Hey Chris, one point of contention. You said that advantage is better than adding a d6. However, mathematically advantage on a d20 roll raises the average by ~3.3, while adding a d6 is a +3.5 on average. Great series, love the work in general!

@PeteCotton Год назад

Reviewed my own math further, and it is a bit more nuanced than this. While the means presented above are accurate, the distribution curves are quite different. 1d20 + 1d6 is a normalized curve, while advantage is an increasing distribution where the highest numbers have increasing frequency all the way to the top. This means for all target numbers above 3, advantage actually does have a better chance of rolling *at least* that number. So I take back my comment. Advantage is better than adding a d6.

@cultivatedjerk5574 Год назад

Thank you Treantmonk, your dedication to task is incredible! 🔫 Now do the Planeshift Ixalan, Amonkhet, Kaladesh, Innistrad, and Zendikar racial options.

@fred-lol Год назад

can you make optimized team builds? where you focus on a party instead of one player character

@irisinthedarkworld Год назад

have you seen the grapple death squad video?

@fred-lol Год назад

@@irisinthedarkworld no but i will watch it thank you!

@pokemasterkurt Год назад

You forgot the Aasimar in the DMG!!! Hopefully it'll be in one of your future videos 🤞

@Starcoffin Год назад

Verdan black blood deserves more, reroll hd can be life saving! Also, they are the only race that changes size as they level. This is likely a negative so the score likely is unchanged. Love your content! Never stop!!

@Camo1177 Год назад

Also worth noting with the Grung, ANYONE who touches you has to deal the the poison saving throw, including those using healing spells with the range of touch.

@r.downgrade5836 Год назад

Fair is fair, that was a good cold open.

@hisnameiskish4874 Год назад

I know you said you weren't taking into account putting the Reborn Lineage on other races, but a Reborn Owlin according to your point system would have 180 points (so top of S tier) if I added and subtracted things correctly from each racial option. The only thing you lose with the Owlin (if my understanding on how adding the Reborn Lineage works is correct) would be your 120ft Darkvision (which I think you could convince a DM to let you keep anyway) as Reborn lets you keep your Flight Speed and Stealth proficiency. Then you get all the crazy benefits of being a Reborn creature. Kinda wild how well Reborn fits on an Owlin.

@migueldelmazo5244 Год назад

I'm just here to hear Chris curse. :) We'll, that and to support this awesome channel.

@jakewarman7277 Год назад

Hey Chris check out D for deep dives needler build it makes great use of the grungs poison feature four ways to optimize a grung

@AndyReichert0 Год назад

as written, the dhampir's bitey feature can be your Pact Weapon, so it can be magical.

@loud_ratel2726 Год назад

This great series is more or less an engineering Trade Off study: evaluate design option feature scores, create a weighting factor for those feature scores, and rank the options. Bias is checked by changing weighting of the feature scores. 🤓

@pedrostormrage Год назад

I don't know if people have already asked for this, but *please* make a racial point buy system. Not only that would be the next natural step, but also it would be a pretty good usage of the point system you came up with.

@Spruble Год назад

Hey Treant, pls include Plane Shift: Amonkhet. Naga is pretty cool.

@johnarnold8485 Год назад

Curiosity, what is your issue with the Acquisitions Incorporated book? Always happy to hear your thoughts

@Ichiryu000 Год назад

Random thought. Way isn't flying more balanced by weight carried. Like image half flying speeding at half you carrying capacity... maybe a quarter.

@MrMrjaymz Год назад

So this begs the question then: is nearly everyone in the optimization community wrong about custom lineage and gaining a free feat at level 1, or is the point value lower than it should be? Is a free feat worth 150 or more points? Questions for the great minds of modern civilization.

@kaemonbonet4931 Год назад

"how do I use this comment section to ask a question?" 😂 you got me with that one

@jeanlou3 Год назад

For the damphir, what is your opinion on biting yourself, willing party members, pets, summons about to expire or even rats from a bag of rats to give yourself +1d4+con to initiative for pretty much each combat in a day? Also works for important skill checks and such. Imo it is a very powerful feature, alone worth more than 18 points.

@minikawildflower Год назад

Treantmonk said my latest character is pure garbage and yet the Dhampir is S tier CHECKMATE ;)

@thejames1160 Год назад

So next video series, subclasses and classes ranked?

@AndyReichert0 Год назад

it's crazy how some of these races have single features that are worth more points than an entire race. like, if you want to play any of the D-tier races, just play a Reborn/Dhampir version of it, and you'll be much happier.

@martl8615 Год назад

Power does not equate happiness. This chart, however, can help you in preventing taking a knife into a gunfight. You don't want to be the one D-Tier in an S-Tier party.

@jugglejunk Год назад

@@martl8615 Well I would imagen a DM could probably find it useful to see which PCs could use a little extra love. ''Oh you picked that race because you love that concept so much?, ... Here, have this x magic item or free feat etc'' Wouldn't you think that would make it more likely that they don't all just show up with S tier races. A little bit variety can be a good thing, but perhaps make sure they know this ahead of time and don't find this out at the last moment.

@bskec2177 Год назад

One thing about the Verdan that got missed was when they hit level 5, they have a two foot growth spurt, and become a medium, creature. This is a negative. A martial character will have to replace armour, and possibly weapons, which can be expensive, although wizards and sorcerers don't have to worry.

@philipes23 Год назад

Hey treantmonk, do know about Solasta: Crown of the Magister? Its a rpg video game. I guess it might be interesting see you building a party using their homebrew rules…

@garyboyles5762 Год назад

My 11 hospitality halfling is a scary guy: Ds Sorc 5, life 2, undeadlock 3. He can quicken bane, twin cast mind spike turn 1. Bonus convert spell to sorcery, twin toll the dead. And this is all cast from the imp... Not to mention if there's prep time, all the cheese rest cast of warlock slots convert for cure wounds or goodberry is pretty nifty too.

@hangingshoe57 Год назад

I am surprised the variable size on TCL wasn't given some points (even ribbon feature points).

@SamiJ1508 Год назад

Line is absolutely a better breath weapon. It hits further away which has value and it can hit 12 squares where as the cone hits 9.

@garuelx8627 Год назад

Fizban did give Dragonborn a much needed buff which is nice.

@Trenell83 Год назад

Hello Treantmonk. I was wondering do the races from Wotc planes like Ixalan in their packets count as races for these videos?

@theresnoracelikegnome Год назад

I noticed you didn’t address the Verdan’s Size feature. Personally, I would give this a significant penalty, somewhere in the -15 range or even worse, as it makes it extremely difficult to plan for certain builds when your size is suddenly going to change partway through your career. I realize that you didn’t take size into account for any racial options, but this feature just feels extra bad to me.

@garion046 Год назад

I don't think it's really a penalty. For builds like grappling getting larger is only really a benefit, and apart from mage hand flying and some niche hiding builds are there really that many that need a small race? I'd argue that the builds where this feature would be a problem require some niche racial option choice already, so the Verdan isn't any worse off than any other medium race.

@theresnoracelikegnome Год назад

@@garion046 you’re right that builds that need small size are relatively niche, but they do exist. Probably the most common type are pet classes who ride their pets. But builds that require you to be medium are extremely common. Grappling, as you mentioned, but also anything that uses a heavy weapon. In that case, it’s less that getting larger is a benefit and more that it’s a requirement. If you want to use a greataxe or a longbow, or what have you, you basically have to just do something else for the first four levels.

@jugglejunk Год назад

@@theresnoracelikegnome '', you basically have to just do something else for the first four levels.'', like getting squad nimbleness (only dwarfs and small races can get this feat)?

@yuvalamir3226 Год назад

I think the main reason there is such a discrepancy between the way we percive those races compared to their ranking is that it puts a lot more value on being a generalist. Who cares about a race that's always pretty good when you have so many options? Races that are in some builds very strong and in others pretty weak are a lot more interesting, because you would just pick a different race if its a bad fit. Take the free cantrip high elves and high half elves get for example. Generally cantrips are good but not game changing. Seens like a middle of the pack feature. When trying to be more spesific though, a lot of builds jump through a ton of hoops to gain access to booming blade, often giving up ASIs for it. Getting it for free on a race with an extra +1 is a huge selling point. This is also why the free feat is considered so good. Yeah a feat is always great, but for a lot of builds it's completely game changing. Polearm Master, Magic Initiate, Warcaster, the list goes on and on. Compare that to the resistance to necrotic and radiant damage Aasimar get. Sure it's strong, but it never sticks out as the perfect choice. I think the way we percive the strength of a race is a function of how many play styles it enables.

@aridruke6831 Год назад

How would you change the Grung's poisonous skin feature to avoid the table-wide annoyance of forcing saving throws with every attack you make?

@Phiro00 Год назад

advantage on death sdaving throws is not jsut a ribbon! its a huge deal actually. statistically and mathematically, advantage on death saves means youre extremely unlikely to fail one. you can basically say byebye to the risk of death saves completely. that should be way more than just 7 points.

@martl8615 Год назад

You fail two when they hit you while down.

@Just_som_Ottur Год назад

Hey Treantmonk, as much as I love the optimization videos for late game characters, can we get some early 1-4 level builds from you? Maybe I’m just uninspired, but playing at random low tier AL games can really suck at times since the same Coffeelock, Hexblade, and Bladesinger builds keep getting used.

@KevinVideo Год назад

Still watching the video, but will be curious what's said about the DMG aasimar that's just a weaker tiefling.

@davidarmstrong1617 Год назад

Hey Chris, just out of curiosity: Do you have a ranking on races for legacy content? I don't use MotM content, mostly because I can't stand most of the changes. I was wondering if you have a previous video on races ranking from earlier content? Thanks!

@sovelis7727 Год назад

I feel like custom lineage needs to get more points, because it is the only race in the game that can start with an 18 in an ability score using a half feat and their +2. Not sure exactly where to factor that in, maybe subtract less from their stats or add more to the feat?

@RaethFennec Год назад

A great idea for a grung would be an (allegedly) frog prince. Play a Genie warlock and fill your Bottled Respite with water. Problem solved! Now you're on a journey to become strong enough to request a Wish from your patron to turn you into a non-frog humanoid prince. Along the way, discover that while it ain't easy being green, it's also not bad and your unique abilities can be a benefit to your friends.

@mikelsmith6803 Год назад

How many points would a racial ability allowing you to regenerate half the damage taken from one instance of damage as a reaction? Similar to the rogues uncanny dodge but one still takes the damage but then regenerate half. It would be an amount of times equal to con mod plus one pero long rest (minimum of one). It's for a werewolf flavored race and I am trying to make something in the A range using Treantmonk's point system. But I need to figure out how strong this would be being a mostly weaker and limited in uses uncanny dodge.

@vilehunter3761 Год назад

I think one big thing about custome that isn't mentioned is how it actually gives access to an 18 using point buy/standard array. That's pretty big in a lot of circumstances. Either way they stay in S tier. But it's something to note for sure.

@andrewshandle Год назад

It's obviously too late for the "What If?" video, but I'd be curious where a few sample OneD&D races would land. Given the free level 1 feat, I would suspect every one would make S-Tier, so maybe it's not worth doing, but I think it'd at least confirm the power creep between the 2014 PHB and the 2024 PHB.

@luka2784 Год назад

I think they would all most likely be S tier. The LV 1 feats are not as good as the feats that are available now, but look at the what is likely the most powerful one, alert. The bonus to initiative is the same as the harengon's hair Triger, which he gave 70 points, and then the ability to swap initiative is worth at least 15 points, maybe more, so that puts a minimum of about 85 points, with only 96 needed for S-tier. The OneDnD halfling doesn't have any new abilities, so we can use treatments own point scores to evaluate that. 50 for lucky, 10 for brave, 10 for halfling nimbleness, 4 for naturally stealthy and 85 for the alert feat gives 159 points, which puts it above every option except the legacy aracockra. Even if I overvalues the ability to swap initiative, which I personally think I undervalued, that it still insane.

@sleepercities5987 Год назад

Is there any way you could also do this for the plane shift races? I’m between some of the merfolk and the triton for a campaign I will be playing and am wondering at their overall power level.

@martl8615 Год назад

I was wondering about the Zendikar Vampire. Good luck with that.

@PyryKorh Год назад

Ok. Now do the Plane Shift races from the little mtg thingies. Khenra are pretty weird.

@morganpetros9635 Год назад

So I like the point system you're using, but I think the "best" race when trying to optimize might depend more on what you're trying to do with a character than a numerical score. For example, if you're playing a crit fisher that isn't an assassin, one of the elven races is the obvious choice simply due to the *EXISTENCE* of the Elven Accuracy feat, but if that's not the focus of your build, then elves generally move back into the numerical scores you've assigned them. Similarly, if you're playing the "Quiver" Fey Wanderer build you put together a few months ago and want to focus on the Fear effect it can inflict, then you might want to play a Leonin despite the admittedly short range of its roar ... and its relatively low ranking. You might also want to consider an elf with longsword proficiency if you want to try to optimize a monk build just because it means you can do a d10 damage once or twice a round without multiclassing to something with martial weapon proficiencies. Actually, nevermind that last comment; "optimizing" a monk build is an exercise in futility. 👿 But my point is that, as you've proven time and again with your own optimized builds, racial choice in optimization depends on your focus. For example, I love having lots of skills, so I tend to use races that add skills useful to my builds. But I think the PH half-elf might be the best possible race for paladins, and especially for paladins that multiclass with CHA casters, simply because of the extra +1 stat bonus they get. Being able to add to STR, CON *AND* CHA when you're just starting out can eventually add much more to a muliclass paladin character than the benefits of any other race, including things like bonus feats, luck flying speeds or damage immunity. But again, it depends on the player's focus. If one of my players decided that poison immunity or resistance, or a flying speed in lighter armor, was more important to his or her paladin's character focus than that extra +1, I would never try to dissuade him or her.

@johngleeman8347 Год назад

Even better than time travel? Sign me up. XD

@bluesman2050 Год назад

The necessary follow up to this series - your Grung build. A Rune Knight grappler? A sorcerer who focuses on poison? How are you getting them on the same build??? The world waits.

@jugglejunk Год назад

A grung rune knight/sorcerer would definately not be a bad multiclass build. Personally I'd want to add 1 lvl of order cleric and or 2 lvls of stars druid, but even without this you would be very solid. I would certainly take blind fighting as it pairs nicely with stinking cloud and cloud kill. (adding blink would make you even more annoiying)

@jakewarman7277 Год назад

I have a half wood elf rogue and my party just hit level five so he's going to be so fast soon 210 ft in 6 seconds

@benjaminerickson225 Год назад

The sass is strong in treantmonk

@timothybrahm9001 Год назад

Chris is getting very sarcastic in his old age (not complaining)

@patrickhannon2694 Год назад

26:24 Pack Tactics Mentioned 🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊

@MelandBLT Год назад

@Treantmonk I respect that you tried Treantmonk to have a definitive tier list for racial options, but by your own admission it’s far too subjective. Though if you are covering other options, where does the Hollow One from Wildemont rank for you or did I miss it in another video?

@aldoushuxley5953 11 месяцев назад

I think you severely underrate the Dhampir. Maybe I am reading things wrong... You retain any swim, climb or fly speed from your previous race. So you can easily choose to be a Dhampir, that originally was any race that has a flying speed, and still keep that. Should this not give the Dhampir 100 points for flight? For example, an Aarakocra Dhampir would still be able to fly

@notoriousthief Год назад

Can grung speak common? I feel like they don't, but I don't remember

@ReverseUnicorn 10 месяцев назад

WHat about the DMG book Aasimar?

@shadowsift Год назад

Does dhampir work in dnd beyond?

@tadious9415 Год назад

I think the access to feats for certain races is essentially a ribbon feature. The feats are generally good, and if I'm playing that race I've taken them before. But they're not much better than the other feats you could be taking just different. So it's a pretty marginal power bost to be able to take this other option.

@irisinthedarkworld Год назад

with the exception of elven accuracy, which i'd say is a top-tier pick for any non-strength attacker with consistent advantage

@tadious9415 Год назад

@@irisinthedarkworld it's definitely the best of the bunch. But even then without that you'd have other options that are very good too. So it is a benefit to have it available but it's only marginally better than the other feats you'd be picking.

@aydensauvageau9393 Год назад

You missed something massive for grung, they cant naturally speak common "Languages You can speak, read, and write Grung." Obviously you can fix that depending on background but still

@gseccles1 Год назад

So, do you think there's a potential system here to create custom races, since you've assigned points to every racial feature? If so, how many points would you let your PCs use to make a custom race?

@thebitterfig9903 Год назад

Hrm. I think I’d probably give 75 points, low A tier. That really slams the door on any of the lower-tier races, since they effectively could be rebuilt better, but I feel like it’d need to be 75 and not 50 or 60 or such, since the S-tier races still exist. Higher than 75 seems like a mistake, since a lot of the points some races get are kinda wasted, not always useful to all characters. Building a custom one lets you get only the features you need, which is more efficient.