Ranking Every BIG MOVE In Smash Ultimate 

The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/mockrocktalk12221 Thanks for watching! This was a fun tier list to do but one with a lot of room for interpretation, what did you think? Also a few notes, some taken from comments: -Giant Punch: I said this is quicker than DK's fair, which _technically_ comes out faster, but also starts above DK's head so functionally it does work out that way. I had this in my notes but forgot to bring it up at the time. I also said that you can't B-reverse it, and to clarify, I was talking about the charge during that segment. I'm aware you can B-reverse the punch itself. -"What about Kazuya's forward smash?" This is the most common one I've been asked about and in this case I actually agree it could've been on here. I considered it and rejected it when making the shortlist, but given how the tier list ended up looking overall, I think its speed-to-power ratio would justify a slot. -"What about Jigglypuff's Rest?" While I know there's some "slowness" built into it in the sense that it's very risky to miss, I don't think a frame 2 move belongs on this list. -"What about Little Mac's KO Punch?" Again it's very quick, and while you can certainly make the argument that it's a move that charges up, it's not available during the charge. Going by the rationale of dividing moves into their distinct stages I used, it doesn't fit, it's either not there at all or available instantly. Waft avoided this treatment because it's always available to use. -"Why didn't you mention Sephiroth's shield breaks?" I thought I'd demonstrated awareness of that through the Gigaflare -> forward smash combo shown in his section, but in retrospect I admit this probably didn't get the point across especially well and I could have mentioned that use case more explicitly. With videos like this I really can't cover every possible use for every possible move, but considering I mentioned shield break setups for several other characters, Sephiroth should have been included in that camp. *Main channel:* ru-vid.com *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

I think my favorite fun fact about Failnaught is that when Kirby gets a character's Neutral B, he gets a 1.2x damage multiplier so now a fully charged Failnaught DOES break sheilds

As a puff main, the sound of rest connecting and all other moves with the same noise (Luigi down taunt, G&W 9 ect.) Just invokes a primal feeling inside of me

Side note on DK's giant punch: The charge cannot be B-reversed, but the punch itself can

Fun tip for Ike’s eruption: Charge it with the opponent on ledge standing in the spot just in front of their roll distance. People will try to roll through you and not realize the hitbox goes behind you as well, and if they stay on ledge or neutral get-up you can hit them with the fully charged pillars. Only works once a game but it’s funny as hell

Let's not forget that today (when I'm writing this) is Smash Ultimate's birthday, at least the NA release

Pyra’s Flame Nova isn’t actually safe on shield on average for one reason: you can spotdodge the hits, even fully charged. The multihits are timed too far apart and don’t put you in enough shield lag, meaning if you know the timing, you can always spotdodge the last hit and punish her harder with it, and the timing’s not exactly hard to adapt to either I say on average, though, because Pyra can also line herself right inside shields where both sides of the multihits will hit shield, which not only makes spotdodging much harder to time, but will actually break shields in full health. The spacing is specific but even slightly charged it can do some good shield damage I don’t think this’ll change placings; I just think Flame Nova’s just more complicated to use on shield, which still doesn’t take away how fast it is and how much it helps mixes up her recovery

I've two-framed someone with Luigi's down taunt and they teched it... Roller coaster of emotions in the span of half a second

It's amazing how Byleth can nearly do TWO Aymrs in the time it takes to do ONE fully charged Failnaught

One thing you missed about Lucas’s up smash is that at the start of it, Lucas gains 7 frames of invincibility (not intangibility), 4 when charging, and 3 immediately after releasing.

One thing about mac’s straight thats worth noting is that you can jumpsquat cancel into it out of a dash, which is faster than shielding out of a dash. Since the armor is frame 1 on straight lunge, it can make some matchups more tolerable for mac. Still, i understand your placement for it.

I always love how happy you are when you talk about King Dedede. He really is just that charming of a character that even his faults make him fun. 🤣

Lucario's force palm is so close to being good and/or big move It's also one of the moves I enjoy more in the game

I think my favorite use of DK's Giant Punch is the fact that you can turn it around while you're offstage and then cancel it so you can just spam back airs while trying to get back to stage. It gives the move utility in his recovery which is an aspect of Donkey Kong's play that definitely could use the help to say the least. Even outside of that, Giant Punch is probably one of his best moves and one of the best neutral specials in the game in my opinion.

I would’ve put in Kazuya’s fsmash here. Sweetspot causes zoom and is incredibly powerful (sakurai himself said sweetspot is comparable to a falcon punch in power), sourspot also plenty strong but also clearly weaker, only a couple of frames slower than bowser fsmash and a couple of frames faster than ganon’s respectively. Being a finisher off of electric or demon god fist alone makes it plenty practical too although the timing can be more strict than continuing a combo until another finisher like upsmash, bair, upb or dragon upper will also confirm, and it’s use as a finisher is simultaneously more cast and/or di dependent than upsmash, bair, up b off electric and dragon upper off dgf, all of which are pretty universal. But, there are points in its favor over competitors off electric against certain cast members, di, percents etc. For example when close to the ledge against fastfallers/big bodies, even sourspot fsmash will kill earlier than any other option he has, much less a sweetspot even at center stage, which at middleish percents you can get against most of the cast as long as you’re positioned correctly. I’d compare it with flare blitz when Zard puts you in a techchase; could you do something less risky and rack up more damage and position yourself for a much easier kill later? Probably. But there are several scenarios where if you know, you just know. And for both of these moves it’s in scenarios where you put your opponent in position to get hit and have much less options to avoid them, unlike a lot of these other big moves where it’s just reads or hoping your opponent fucks up. There is an argument for dragon upper to be here also but I just think the risk reward ratio isn’t comparable to fsmash, imo. Where I think a lot of characters would get use out of upper, what with s and all, really only Kaz can make good use out of fsmash.

I think Dedede's up special should have been on this list. It's not the easiest to land, but when it does, you really feel it. Not to mention it's also one of the most satisfying spikes in the game. The spike hitbox is easier to land thanks to Gordo set ups.

One thing I'd like to add about Whack: The thread of the insta kill is often more useful than the insta kill itself. You won't often land Whack in the areas that Thwack can't already cover (i.e. at long range). However, it functions well as a slow moving projectile that stays out very long to pressure an area. Nobody is going to chance an instant death, so by throwing it out, you force you opponent to either jump or shield, which Hero can punish if he runs with the projectile. I don't think this impacts Whack's placement in the tier list, but it is an important part of the move that I missed during its section in the video.

I feel like the peanut guns explosion is a punishment for bad choices in play. It has horrendous end lag because the Diddy Kong player shouldn't have held down the button for too long, but the other player gets hit with damage and knock back equal to a forward smash because you saw Diddy pop out the gun and hold it longer then a falcon punch yet still get hit.

Luigi deserves extra points, since if you do land a taunt spike kill your opponent is required to SD immediately

Jigglypuff rest always felt like a big move to me, i dont know if im the only one who feels that way. It not slow at all but it still has the commitment factor to it, and everytime it's used, its very hype and hits hard.

49:15 the thing is, you're only thinking of it as a competitive game. They're not goint to stop making these moves because they are fun and funny outside of competitive play (and even in competetive play when they appear)

I think exploding side kick deserves to be higher than the other Falcon Punch like moves. Yes it is out classed by brawlers other neutral specials, but in a vacuum it's way more practical than the rest of the FPs. Deserving of a C at least.

The worst part about brawler's exploding side kick is that it's not even a good shield break punish. Fully charged forward smash kills earlier

A couple things I wanna say about Game & Watch's Judge is that it's actually a 1 in 8 chance, as you can't get the same number twice in a row -and also apparently if you're losing, in the last 5 seconds of the match your chances to get a 9 get boosted massively but that's besides the point- I'd also argue that 6 is also a pretty good number to pull; it kills at around 150% (as opposed to the 500% that most other Judge numbers do in the chart it has in its wiki page) and is a semi-spike so it sends at a pretty evil angle that you can capitalize on or just kill someone that has a bad recovery outright. A 9 kills significantly earlier, in the single digits, and G&W also probably has way better ways to kill you at 150%, but if you wanna style on your opponent or something, a 6 isn't all that bad so you roughly have 1/3rd of numbers worth pulling

One arguement I would make for gigaflare is that although it's only real optimal use is a shield break punish, sephiroth actually does have good shield break setups. With the right spacing it also combos into f smash killing half the cast at zero. In a vaccum yeah that's not gonna happen but on a character that probably will go for shield breaks it's not bad to have.

Little Mac should definitely be higher. Shield cancel means you can up smash out of it, it's basically a better counter, and the buff it gives to Mac's landing disadvantage is insane

It’s insane that mock rock talks, what a great creator

As a kirby main. I actually get some utility off of Hammer flip. The move is Trash to use in disadvantage or neutral, but as a ledgetrapping option, it is actually really good, especially when a lot of people jump off ledge againt kirby. When people jump off ledge just jump and hammer, the second aerial hit can also catch.

It wasn't covered but one of the things about Magic Burst is that if you have less than half MP it doesn't really kill that insanely well. It also doesn't last as long, so you can't ensure it hits ledge.

34:31 one usage case that wasn't mentioned that i feel helps the move out is gigaflare as a shield break punish, since you can actually buffer a forward smash after releasing it and have a pretty damn good chance of killing your opponent at 0%. i know "its a good shield break punish" applies to a lot of this list so it cant be thought of as being too much of a selling point, however in the context of sephiroths kit i feel it benefits a lot from the fact that he can fish for shield breaks with stuff like down smash or just get them through things like shadow flare hits > ftilt on a damaged shield. great video as always man, keep up the good work

Generally good list! I have 2 slight comments. Judge is actually essentially a 1/8 chance since you can't get the same number twice in a row. Doesn't make much difference though. What _can_ make a difference is something you didn't mention with Lucas's up smash. Because its first frames are invincible, you can actually do a tech where you start the up smash and then cancel it with a jump, getting a few frames of invincibility as a pseudo-parry. Niche and hard to time tbf.

Thing to note about G&W judge: you cannot get the same number twice. While this seems bad at first, in actuality it is great. If you're first judge isn't a 9, then your next judge goes from a 1/9 chance to a 1/8 chance. Also in the last moments of the game #9's probability skyrockets. (Also pirhana plant down b should have definitely been on this list)

Other characters:does some charge up Luigi: J U M P

Reached the Bowser F-Smash section. Bowser's a secondary of mine who I pull out quite a lot in Singles and Doubles. I've literally never seen that sour spot. I genuinely didn't know that existed. That actually blew my mind lmao. Also for Sephiroth, I'd like to add a couple things, since he's also a character I play alot. I'd personally put his Neutral-B in A or S, just because in context, it's a much bigger punish than D-Tilt, which 2-frames well, but sends them up, and he generally can't do a whole lot with it. Also, D-Air hits people below the ledge, as in they went below the stage and back up, but in every other recovery case, it'll miss. Mega and Gigaflare both are better options there. So because of that, I wouldn't say they have conflicting purposes, since they cover different ledgetrap scenarios. Another thing I see pop up is because they're cancellable, they can bait other options (sadly not very reactable, has to be a read when you have some distance), as well as manipulates your opponent's movement in ledge scenarios. I think it's at least a little better than you give it credit for, but I understand the placement. It does have some glaring flaws.

In the future, I think the "Big Moves" in the style of Falcon Punch/Amyr can work if they're more moments they can be used in advantageous situations. Say if shield breaks became more common, or there was some super specific way to combo into anything with a startup of 60f or less, or if recoveries were made so predictable that they could be used for edgeguarding/ledgetrapping. Whether or not it's a good idea to implement any of those things in the 1st place, especially just to make these big moves viable in 1v1s, is it's own can of worms. But the option IS there

Kazuya's fsmash should be on this list, it's absurdly strong and has comparable frame data to several other moves on here.

I think an “All Hero Moves Tierlist” video would be a cool idea :D

Your videos are so good, always so excited to watch a new one once they drop

Byleth's down B should 100% be in at least C tier. It's one of the best shield break punishes in the game on one of the best shield breakers in the game. It doesn't come up every game but it kills so absurdly early and shield breaks can happen a lot with Byleth even in pro play.

If you slightly change Kirby's hammer to when there's flames, then you can break full shields. You can also use it as a mixup option on platforms, where it's a guaranteed shield break if they do shield. It also kills exceptionally early, so any copy abilities that can break shield make hammer much better

“The first axe special move” F for Simon and Richter neutral B

Im surprised D3s big sit up b wasnt considered a beeg move. Easily his funniest move. Also one thing to mention about jet hammer is that against characters with attackable projectiles or specifically olimar’s pikmen, the hammer hitbox stays out for way longer bc it pauses for every entity hit. There’s a ton of jank against olimar and you can get a few fairly well charged hammers off against him bc the pikmen leave him a sitting duck against it

I love using the villager tree. It demolishes stocks both when growing and fallin. I wasnt expecting it to be on the list but i think it could be. And it is as strong as some of the ones on the list. Bowling ball is good 2.

One move that comes to mind that I feel could've been included was Dedede Up B, unique being another one of the spike ones and another actual recovery move. I'm not a Dedede player but from I know it breaks shields and I believe there's *some* set ups to make only the bury hitbox hit to allow for some follow ups, but I personally feel like the end lag is probably far too slow to be worth the risk, especially considering how extremely telegraphed it is with a lot of planning needed to go into it. Its a strong spike but I don't know too much about it to see it as more than the spike version of Falcon Punch.

Feel like Skewer should've had a aerial variant where Ridley did the sort of "tail scrape" attack from Brawl where he hovers in place and rakes the ground with his tail spike

Yo, Little Mac main here You can cancel neutral B into Up Smash by imputing grab and up at the same time Also, Mac has some nasty shield break setup so the full charge is used more often than other moves on this list Imo A tier Great vid btw, love your content

22:17 "I think it may be the biggest hitbox in the game." *Peach Blossom has joined the chat*

I do find it a little weird that Rest wasn’t mentioned at all in this video. Totally get it if your reasoning was because the move comes out basically instantly, but it *is* still a move that does huge damage and knockback (also triggers the blue critical hit screen), and while the startup is nonexistent, the punishability of the move is entirely back-loaded and super devastating for Puff. I guess by that logic though, you’d also need to include moves like Luigi’s Shoryu, and then at that point it’s just a “powerful hits” tier list lol.

29:38 small side note: Kirby’s full charged hammer can hit ledge for most if not all ledge hangs.

The way you perfectly mirrored the pro clip at 44:25 was super cool and really nice attention to detail

Great video. I think Kazuya's forward smash on sweet spot should have deserved a spot on the list but perhaps it's not slow enough?

One interesting thing about Gigaflare is that Sepiroth has shield break setups and it is his best shield break option

The Falcon Punch, Warlock Punch, and Luigi's Taunt... none of them have good frame data and are high risk. By all definitions, they shouldn't be good. But what they lack in speed and safety, they seriously make up for it in STYLE. Nobody is going to use Falcon Punch because its a better kill option... they use it because its FREAKING COOL. Its got HYPE, and that's what matters most. Its what _defines_ a "big move." I disagree with the sentiment that they should stop adding moves like that. Those moves are always the most satisfying to land, because when they do land its feels EARNED. There are safer options, yes, but they won't be as satisfying.

For PK Freeze, there's certain characters it is usable against, other which you shouldn't. For example, the Links, DK, Sephiroth, Falcon, Ganon, Ridley, the Spacies, and a couple others it's pretty easy to set up for. But also you can gimp with up b 1 incredibly early, and down smash and f tilt are generally gonna be better if they're near ledge

Ike is funny because if you charge it to the point you get the second pillar, the main hit box gets much worse. The second and third pillars typically don't break shield. The second and third pillars have sizable blind spots that can miss ledge stalls. The fully charged version also kills something like 20 or 30% after foward smash. Seriously why couldn't that give him his energy shockwave from his game.

another mockrock video yes!! tho were is the redesign moves of smash (basically like the buff and nerf video mixed together + no restriction) please I asked these for months

Flare Blitz is my favorite movie not just in smash specifically, but in any plat fighter. I really love it's death or glory nature, with it being a genuinely good move for tech chases, reading rolls, attacks, or projectiles but with it also being insanely punishable, basically being a stock lost if it hits shield at a high enough percent. The original idea of recoil in Pokemon is translated so well. Every kill I get with it feel amazing, especially if it's a roll read.

Apparently, Thwack is also a projectile. Had it reflected multiple times.

I was a kind of surprised Dedede's Up B isn't on the list. I know it's mainly used as a recovery move and that is definitely its purpose but it kind of fills the criteria of big, slow hard hitting move and there are some nasty setups for it plus one of the strongest burry effects in the game.

Fun fact: game and watch's 9 move actually Isnt a 1 In 9 chance rather a 1 In 7 because once a number Is pulled you cannot pull It again because Its placed In a storage system where the last two numbers you pull are stored so you cannot pull them again until you use the move three times to get that first number out of storage and Its why you cannot pull a 1 or 2 when first using It each match since they're the default numbers In store... doesnt make that much a difference since Its still very hard to pull a 9

4:49 not related to the video’s topic at all but it’s always cool when a local you attend is featured on videos like these.

I feel like Mario F-Air could be in here. It’s not that big of a move but if Snake F-Air gets in then why wouldn’t Mario’s? It’s slow, it sends to the shadow realm, it’s incredibly satisfying to kill with.

Flare Blitz on shield is hilarious. It's literally so unsafe that you can _punish it on shield with Volcano Kick._ No I'm not kidding, that's literally a true punish and you don't even need to parry or anything. Please stop letting me get away with this move online.

I was about to rewatch your other videos because I was craving more tier lists. I still am but this is a nice surprise.

Lucas's up smash is slow enough that ddd fsmash can punish it out of shield. I still love it though, especially using it as a parry

Personally I would've included Byleth's other aymr moves, since those are decently slow and hit like a semi truck

You neglected to mention that if Ridley guesses right twice in a row, the opponents stock is completely deleted because forward smash is so ridiculously strong.

46:09 It's been a while since I tested this, but from what I can remember, if you buffer it out of jumpsquat off of a side platform on a stage with side platforms and then double jump and up-b immediately afterwards you can just barely make it back to ledge. It's still a terrible option, even more so because Warlock Punch only gets the armor while you're on the ground.

Honestly I wish this was a design/just based on how much you like the move based tier list instead of a viability based one. These moves are the ones that deserve it

I feel like Mythra’s Lightning Buster could definitely go on here too. It’s a powerful move, but compared to some of the other chargeable sword moves like Roy’s and Pyra’s, it doesn’t hit quite as hard. However, on a character like Mythra who lacks immediate power outside of charge f-smash, it’s a valuable option. Light charge LB is a solid combo ender, and its fairly high BKB allows it to kill offstage on certain stages at low percents. Full charge LB is hard to line up, but there are some situational setups into it, and it’s Mythra’s most powerful move at ledge and in tech chase scenarios. It also offers brief invincibility, hits on both sides, has a charge hitbox, and is B reversable, which can make it pretty tricky when combined with Mythra’s speed. Overall, I think it’s a low A to high B tier move. Not quite as useful to Mythra as Flame Nova is to Pyra, but a surprisingly good tool with some utility.

Side note on kirby: his hammer can actually be charged between the regular and the max out hammer (lets call it stage 2) this hammer still has the double hit on the air but now is on fire, this is capable of killing around 60-70 if hit. This is also a punish for edge jumping. Max out hammer also has armor, which can punish edge jab get up.

My favorite part of Volcano Kick is that its windbox actually can mess with people airdodging to ledge, so it can suck them onstage to get hit by it if they airdodge up or suck them below ledge for a kill if they airdodge sideways or down.

My favorite forbidden elite smash technique is double flair blitz on someone shielding on the ledge. See, when returning to the edge bouncing off shield and then double jump will let you do it again and in elite smash no one would see it coming. The advanced version is the triple flair blitz were after you land the double flair blitz you jump on stage and tech chase them across the stage with a third flair blitz and since the opponent is so shocked at being hit by the double flair blitz they are not ready for you flying across the stage at them. This would knock them off stage leading them to be vulnerable to and edge guard by the QUADRUPEDAL-

I feel like they should change Ganon and Captain Falcon a bit more when it comes to the big moves. Both to significantly buff them and to separate the two. Warlock Punch should be changed to Warlock Slash (I'd say Stab but Ganon's swords in Ultimate don't work for stabbing), with more super armour and Kill Power plus more range. Also make it as fast as Ultimate's Falcon Punch and make it something you can angle. For Falcon Punch though, make that as fast as in Smash 64, with a big hitbox on the Falcon and a sweetspot on the Punch. More speed, more coverage, same power, and maybe give him a push forward as he punches even on the ground. Essentially this would make both moves bigger (Ganon in Range, Falcon in coverage), faster (Falcon Punch being way faster than Warlock Punch) and different utilities (FP for recovery, WS for edgeguards maybe). These might make the moves a bit too powerful, but Ganon is meant to have some of the greatest power in the game and the Falcon Punch is THE big move in Smash.

I feel like Pichu's fully charged side-b shoulda been here too

22:15 I think the largest hitbox in the game is peach daisy final smash. That shit is ridiculous

ESK also has a longer turnaround period so i guess it's better to force panic situations.

I was fine with KO punch not being in here considering it’s built up passively and is incredibly fast to throw out. Then I saw waft. Disagree with that but also mac’s neutral b is one of his only tools against projectiles so you see it used a lot more than I think you have it credit for. I’d personally put KO punch in S but considering how easy it is to be knocked out I think they both deserve at least A

Oooooooooh S+ Tier! Always fun to see that pop up in a list like this :D

I'm pretty sure G&W's 3 combos into Up Smash if you hit it on the ground. A pretty niche situation, setups for Side-B result in you hitting an opponent with it in the air so those can't apply for this use-case, but given how powerful and safe Up Smash is it increases the amount of useful numbers from 2/9 to 3/9.

Gotta love a tier list of attacking moves in a fighting game that includes big punches, explosions, psychic energy and massive weapons. And the top of the list is a fart.

Flaming sidekick is done real a disservice here, especially when its argued that it's worse than Amyr. Unlike Amyr, the move has negligible end lag, which is an absolute game changer for this type of move. This, combined with its armor, makes it so fishing for surprise hits with this move is surprisingly viable. Obviously Mii brawlers other moves are better, but I would consider this move way better than a lot of moves in C tier. Speaking of C tier, Judge is guaranteed to not roll the last number you rolled. Meaning you can fish for a 2 or a 1, then have 1/8 chance of the move rolling a 9, and a 7/8 chance of at least hitting your opponent hard enough for the move to be safe.

Would've liked to see Kazuya's F-Smash on this list. Thoughts? Rage-Drive maybe aswell, but that's a once per stock thing.

I believe Ike's Eruption is actually strongest if you release it right when you see the twinkle effect instead of changing it all the way, and if you do that it becomes one of the strongest punishes in the game... at least that's the way it was in Brawl and Smash 4, idk if it still works like that in Ultimate

Something you didnt mention about shieldbreaker is that it has a headshot property. It deals more damage when it hits and opponents' head hurtbox, allowing for easier shieldbreaks. It does not deal increased knockback though.

Wow your last minute changes were exactly what I would do to make that tier list perfect lol.

Judge's 3 does actual stupid shield damage, giving it some utility imo

What about G&W's Oil Panic? It's one of the hardest hitting moves in the game and takes time to set up. Was it excluded because it relies on the opponent's moves to become available?

Because I'm an engineer, and am havign a REALLY slow day at work, I decided to do some basic statistical analysis of Mr Game and Watch's Judge. I'm not gonna list the damages all the numbers do (it's on the wiki if you need it), but on average, you'll be dealing 7.9% of meaningful damage by using judge. I say meaningful because the real average is 11.4%, but that factors in that a 9 does 32 base damage, but who cares, you're basically always gonna kill with a 9. You can also expect to heal an average of 1.3% (if you eat all the apples), but take 1.3% of damage from a 1 as well. Those don't actually cancel out, because these are base damages. For example, in a 1v1, all the damages I just listed would be multiplied by 1.2, but the healing ISN'T. Compare that to the combo Mockrock showed off, nuetral air to up air. If all hits connect, that little combo deals 25% damage, again ignoring all multipliers. Now granted, damage isn't everything. As previously discussed, a 9 is an instant kill, whereas that easy-bake combo will essentially never kill. It's hard to translate a stock loss into damage, but let's try to model it by assigning a 9 a damage output equal to the % Mr. Game and Watch can reliably kill at. I have no idea what percentage that is, but let's assign a variable, X to it. In that case, Judge's average damage is equal to 71/9 +X/9. The 71/9 represents the damage from getting anything but a 9. Using this model, for judge to be comparable to Nair to Uair, X has to be equal to or greater than 154%. I'm no expert, but I think Mr. Game and Watch can kill reliably well before that percentage. The third major option is stage position, which is barely worth mentioning, as Judge is never going to outperform an actual combo. Only an 8, 9 or MAYBE a 6 will put you in an advantageous position relative to your opponent, and a 1 will you put you in a bad position, so you have a 33% chance of coming out on top, an 11% chance of giving your opponent the advantage. Compare that to the easy bake combo, which left the opponent far above game and watch while G&W were on the ground, which is a really good position for G&W to be in. Long story short, Judge really doesn't have much going for it. I'm happy to answer any questions about my analysis.

I will say for giga flare, sephiroth has very good shield pressure because of his down smash and shadow orbs, and giga flare f smash kills at 30 ish off a shield break. Kinda niche, but breaking shield is a legitimate strategy for sephiroth and giga flare is part of the reason why.

In regards to marth shield breaker, it'll actually break a shield after one other attack. So one setup you see Marths go for is jab 1 to shield break.

About g&w judge i think its actually 1/8 chance after a non 9 has been used. If i remember correctly when a number of judge is used it cant be used on the next attempt actually making 9 more likely

Id say that terrys power geyser is a big move. Its basically ganon fsmash, but big bigger hitbox and sends up.

I think big moves are perfectly fine. Not everything has to be viable at the top 0.1% of play. They're amazingly hype when you get a hard read with them at lower levels.

I'm surprised no Corrin DFS (Neutral b (Ball and Chomp)) but I guess it wasn't hard hitting enough. If it was though it would be S tier with its ball allowing it to combo into the bite. The strong bite has a lot of shield push back though still very punishable on shield. It can also be combo into it and be b reversed. Its amazing for ledge trapping and stalling off stage. I personally like to use it on people who aren't patient in shield and jump oos into the ball and die to the chomp. Thankyou for listening to my ted talk 9 months later to the single person who will read this.

I don’t know if you are still reading comments here but Ridley’s skewer trades with command grabs sometimes and damages your opponent without the entire animation. So hypothetically if you got a read on a command grab with like Ganon or incineroar you can get a free 50%

Funnily enough, Lucas up smash hitbox is so huge it can actually pick you up from the ledge lol. I've 2 framed people with it and you feel like the most badass player when you hit it. Obviously it's not at all optimal to do that, but you do it for the style points.

This is going to be hype, even compared to the regular mockrocktalk upload

I highly doubt nintendo will stop putting these types of moves on characters, because nintendo clearly tries to appeal more to the casual side of the game rather than the competitive side, and I think these moves are great for casual play, bad for competitive play (I'm a byleth main, and I use both Amyr and Failnaught a lot and with skill, they actually hit often, though probably cause I dont fight against tournament strength players)

Game and Watch 3 does a bunch of shield damage. Definitely not bad especially compared to the others