on the dark pit topic, i think most people are parroting the old Alpharad FS tier list from right when the game came out. he (understandably) makes a big deal about a combo that sends behind you and kills at super low percents. i still think it's a good final smash for its versatility, basically being link's FS on a character with more combos into it, but it's more famous than its actual strength probably warrants. i would probably put it on par with falcon's, being slightly harder to confirm into but easier to use raw
nope it just lacks the visuals the hitbox is still there for some reason source: I have gotten sucked in from behind dark samus on multiple occasions so I'm pretty sure it's there
About Lucario. He actually has a hitbox when he goes up which can confirm into the beam. Up-throw from center stage, fair or landing Nair while facing away from ledge, falling up-air etc.
@@elusive_kidney_thief There's some kind of bug with Ryu's FS where, when the opponent is between the distance windows for both FS, you will get a Shin Shoryuken-like FS with Shinku Hadoken-esque multihits and quite bad knockback iirc. I think PKBeats has a vid on it, could also have been PJiggles tho.....
I think an important factor to note about how good these are is that you can't NB when you have them. For kirby, who cares. For wolf and Falco? That's a much bigger deal.
Yeah, I'm surprised he didn't bring this up. It's like the one bad thing about Zelda's. Edit: oh, he finally brought this up for Steve (and briefly for Shulk but only to show that Shulk can bypass this)
Samus and Dark Samus actually *DO* have a difference between their final smashes; Samus has a hurtbox on her thrusters behind her that will draw those who get hit by it into the main final smash. Dark Samus doesn’t have this hurtbox.
@@itsyahomiescott3742 no it is the other way around. "pikachu has a smaller hurtbox than ganondorf" "zelda's forward air has both a strong and a weak hitbox"
I've actually brought this up before on the channel, someone even brought it up briefly during the stream lmfao. It's a difference, just not a big enough one
the tierlist and explanation is great and all, but the 1v1 multiplayer stays on in practice range, even if you use items, and FS meter is weaker than the smash ball version. unless you add another CPU.
This is definitely a factor worth considering, and I do think I should've been even more clear with how much stronger the testing scenario I used makes them seem. There are definitely still a lot of 0-to-death combos featured that're still that strong in a real setting, but the numbers are 100% skewed away from low damage KOs. Though I do think the more important factor is weighing them relative to one another, and if they're all buffed in that setting, then the weaker, say, cutscene final smashes still end up being weaker overall (unless their smash meter multiplier is whack, which I also tried to take into account) In reality I REALLY wanted to test with smash meter to be thorough but ohhhhhh my god that would've sucked soooooo much for getting all the data LMFAO
Terry actually has a pretty easy 0 to death using his final smash, so long as the opponent is somewhat to one side of the stage. Strong hit of dair, cancel into weak normal front b, cancel into fs.
I tried using Duck Hunt's final smash as a normal final smash more in Quickplay, and it's incredibly weak. Being able to combo into it easily is nice, but the weakness basically requires you to try and use it near the edge, which you can't always do since you only have a limited time to use it. imo they should buff it.
Glad inklings up in S tier, i was flabbergasted when I saw hungrybox put in in D tier. I was like HUH??? And he put similar ones in like A or S tier…whatever dude. Glad u realize its not bad lol
something i find hilarious about zelda fs is that the grab box is big enough to hit through the stage, so you can stage spike with it. cheesed a few online matches with that back in the day
1:33:04 I found out that Terry can actually cancel his specials into his final dmash as well. So you could hit them with landing nair, a couple of down tilts, a forward tilt, cancel into burning knuckle, and then final smash Its kinda busted
I think you should have factored in the fact that final smashes are summoned by pressing B. A few characters get way worse if they can’t press b for a while (samus, Rosalina, piranha plant) and if the opponent isn’t at the right percent to combo into their final smash or be killed by it, they might struggle to get the opponent to the right percent without their neutral b Also I think a lot of final smashes give the player their jump back? Plus recoveries like little mac’s can be used to recover so that’s cool :3
So with Dk final smash ik it’s react able but to give you a perspective of the knock-back if you jump then do a final smash (even instantly) it kills most of the mid to light charecters at 0. So by 40 up it just kills anyways. Even then the amount of combo set ups Dk has? Air down b, nair, down tilt, at 40 I believe up air works. Anyways it’s really good. I’d argue so far into the video best cut scene final smash
something i think you might've forgotten while doing your testing is that smash meter makes a lot of final smash weaker than they are with a smash ball, i don't think it would change much but some combos probably wouldn't work or wouldn't kill with smash meter
Something I lile about sonics is that while its honestly awful in a 1v1, it can be amazing in group battles since it will always hit every opponent for decent damage, even if it cant do that much to an invividual
I’d like to point out that most, if not all of these have no move staling. For some reason in training mode, move stale is off by default and you have to manually turn it on yourself everytime. Yoshi for example, you can see him load into a game and doesn’t go in and change it. Not throwing hate but I thought that was funny
i feel like you understood the olimar one wrong because the way i see it is more like if you hit the burry hitbox you get your final smash but if you are too far even so for example a roy one would fail you still damage your oponeny a little bit by failing your final smash. The way i see it is more like a if you missed you still get a compensation instead of just failing
Ken and Ryu, yes you can cancel any special into their final smash. So literally down tilt, hadouken, final smash is a true combo, ect ect, any of their bnb combos you can just throw it on at the end
Bowser Junior's final smash isn't really practical at low percents The point of the move in my eyes is to finish off stocks and if you're at like 60 or 70 you're pretty much cooked even if you don't get hit by the final smash itself it provides so much stage control that you can just finish them off anyway
the multi-hit of roy's final smash actually disables the slowdown it has so if you clip someone with it but don't pull them into the main hit it's actually beneficial to them
About Jigglypuff. His FS most likely doesn't deserve to be at tier F because it has a lot more utility than FS of the same tier and above, considering that Puff can use it under the stage, covering the entire playable area, leaving alive only those with excellent air-stalling/teather recovery options.
The thing is, Puff's is still bad in that case. The vast majority of the cast can just jump to avoid it since it's incredibly slow and telegraphed, and even if they *do* get hit, it doesn't kill very well either. Also, if you want to use it under the stage, that also puts Puff into a disadvageous situation when trying to return to ledge afterwards. It absolutely deserves F-Tier when the only semi consistent use case of it involves putting yourself in a bad position for a not even great reward... Yeah that's a recipe for disaster.
Sonics final smash has weird launch values. Getting very strong the last few passes he does. You can delay scooping them up and combo into it. But yeah it's still awful actually. Designed for 8 player free for alls where someone is bound to get unlucky.
A bit disappointed that this is essentially a VOD with jumpcuts. I really like your editing and writing, so it's a bit of a shame that this video concept won't get that treatment. If you don't want to revisit this ranking again, can I recommend that you do a Final Smash Aesthetics ranking as a proper video? Would be the same concept as your Stage Aesthetics ranking video.
Wow, yeah this sure is an opinion... I really hope most people don't take it as fact like they do the Alpharad video. The fact that a lot of this is just testing through means of a non-human & often non-moving CPU outside of a real match without actual experience & advice from people who know nothing of Final Smashes tells me that there's certainly some bias through lack of knowledge here, but I may be wrong.
I try to take great care to explain how I'm only one person with a limited viewpoint in the video, the last thing I want is for anyone to treat my word (or anyone's word, for that matter) as gospel. That being said, I did get a lot of opinions from people in chat and elsewhere about various picks and their experiences with them, while also watching a lot of videos describing more practical situations with the attack. I did a lot of testing the way I did in the video to make it easy to stream, but I did research outside of the stream to come to conclusions, especially in between Day 1 and 2 of the process. Plus, I do think there's merit to seeing how many combo routes and viable manners the user has to confirm their final smash, all of which can be tested in training mode like I did. The real variance mostly just comes from final smashes that're less straightforward, and while I tried to account for them as much as I could, again, I took great care to explain how I would need to see results before being confident in their placement on the tier, and otherwise just placed them where I felt like was currently fair. Trust me, after watching HBox's meter tournament, I understand how annoying it is for people with little experience with final smashes to say things like they're the gospel of the lord lmfao, I would love nothing more than for more data to be made available and for more meter tournaments to happen, but alas, I can only do so much Plus there were multiple examples of characters that had polar opposite opinions from many members in chat. My streams didn't have a TON of viewers, but it had plenty with plenty of active commenters (a lot of which being casual-leaning as that's what my viewerbase generally is), and when I got to PAC-MAN, I heard literally exact opposite opinions from very different people. Some saying it's one of the best final smashes in the game, some saying it's one of the worst. I tried my best to keep those types of thoughts in mind while admitting my own lack of experience, but I think it just goes to show how even "experience" will lead to pretty hard disagreement. I just tried my best
@@Casual_PKBeats Yeah, I get it. You can't please everyone. And while I do disagree with some of it, you've impacted my own opinions as well. I can see the time & effort you spent making your tier list, & I applaud your dedication to do something not many have done. Great video, & I am sorry if I sounded rude!
Seph should be an S he can combo into it with all of his throws (fthrow is a tech chase but if offstage it will combo) nair, reverse upair, weak fair, and late dtilt all would combo into it
oh look, it's the labber from the sephcord! I'm gonna be honest though, the inconsistency in seph's final smash is probably what holds back it back the most. seph only really has a 31.5% (23/73) chance to ko at 0, 45.2% (33/73) if you'll count reversed controls which are reactable & manageable, just difficult to deal with for most players. Even if you count reverse controls, the odds are still not in your favour with getting a your 0td seph final smash, and they just get worse the further your opponent gets from the stage. the other effects, especially increased launch distance are also kinda weak as they turn his really strong final smash into a genuinely MID one, which i guess is in line with his character (jkjk) edit: data corrections, since i misinterpreted them the first time.
I've actually did some labbing on seph fsmash since I was curious Ftilt fsmash is true inactive counter fsmash is true seph can actually combo fsmash from all aerials, most tilts (uptilt 😢) Jab, blade dash, and the flares
If you're playing with multiple other people, Jigglypuff has arguably the single best Final Smash in the game. That's not even an opinion, that's just a fact
I mean, in a SUPER casual setting, then sure. But like, if you're playing against 7 people who know how to airdodge, then Jiggglypuff will just fail to kill 7 people instead of failing to kill one person.
@@Riku70X Said 7 people will usually try and seize the opportunity and gimp the others. They will not cooperate. Air Dodging to avoid the final hit of the Final Smash leaves you very open afterwards, and that's assuming you didn't already use it to dodge someone else. This is for Stock Battles specifically btw because yeah the Final Smash itself is unlikely to directly kill anyone outside of a casual setting, but it is definitely going to result in people losing stocks and get tou ahead.
It's better, but it's still a weak ass move. Just not bottom fucking 1 anymore. Anyone competent is still not getting hit with it, and if we're talking a casual setting, then the final Smash becomes even more awful on larger stages.
@@Robbie_Haruna hitting someone with it is not the point, it's useful specifically because it forces people off stage where they start killing eachother. In a Stock match, where the goal is to die less than your opponents, it is straight up better than a lot of otherwise really good Cutscene Final Smashes throughout most of the match because they take other players out of states such as free fall, so you can inadvertently save someone with it (which outside of teammatches is usually very counter productive). Once only two or three people are left, Jigglypuff's Final Smash becomes completely terrible again (and those Cutscene Final Smashes lose their drawback). Also the only big stage worth playing on is Zelda's Temple. First rule about fight club, you do not talk about fight club.
@thegloriouskingkronk8422 That's the thing. It doesn't force people off stage, though. The vast majority of characters can just jump over the top of it (assuming it's used under the stage. Otherwise, they just move slightly to the side and avoid it.) Genuinely, the only character it forces offstage is the Puff using it, which is an increasingly higher risk for every other character in the match. You're correct that cutscenes' final smashes will save people on occasion. However, they will also actually do something when they hit someone. Puff's is certainly improved in a group setting, but it's still like maybe top 40-50 at best instead of bottom 3. Also, I wasn't even talking about giant stages. Legitimately, any stage medium-sized and up hinders Puff Up a shit ton, especially if it has platforms. Even 5+ player final destination essentially renders it a non factor.
thats the whole point of what he said in the marthina revised part they have a 0.3 modifier on the smash meter version wich makes it not an instakill at all
That would be if they were ranked relative to eachother, (im assuming) because it was a livestream he didnt want to take that into account and have to rebalance them for the sake of time
