@@Rellen00 Hard disagree. IG in their prime had by far the most lane dominant sololaners in the game (Faker was similarly dominant to Rookie in his prime but faced earlier and worse competition, TheShy doubt anyone would disagree). Jackey was an incredible ADC and great laner, and at the time Baolan/Ning were very solid players as well. Pound-for-pound mechanics, probably the strongest team of all time. Even in bot metas they'd likely win many of the world championships off sheer individual performance. Keep in mind, they could also play with Duke, an extremely good weakside/tank player, if need be. But Ning/Baolan fell off a cliff after they won and TheShy was never as consistent (probably partially due to meta, partially due to not caring as much, and partially to his hand injury). But if you take the 2018 IG lineup in the form they were in in 2018, they were insane. I agree with their ranking on this list because the competition wasn't super high in 2018, that's really the only knock though
For anyone curious about the ahri push mentioned at 49:00, it was day 6 of 2013 worlds SKT vs OMG. The play starts a little past 11 minutes into the game.
Something to be said about SSG 2017, they were so overtly meta dependent / flash in the pan successful, they literally returned to Worlds a year later in an inverted meta (solo lane focused) and they were the only Korean team in the modern format to not get out of groups.
@@gluestick5759 the meta in 2016 was 5v5/4v4 teamfights with scaling midlaners and engage junglers, SSG performed well, but the meta was as well centered around SSGs strength.
@@Rellen00 they litterally won the next split of LPL in dominant fashion and got top 4 at worlds the next year DESTROYING Griffin in that series. 2017 SSG never even played in a domestic finals. That comparison is nothing alike.
It’s so wild hearing their recounts of 2013 worlds - I remembered thinking SKT vs Najin was a battle between 2 giants, 2 best teams in the world, peak league of legends, etc 🤣🤣
Bro I honestly think 2018 KT and ROX Tigers are probably better than a majority of worlds winners. Even 2018 RNG, they were so close to completing a grand slam just the meta change at worlds killed them.
Amazing episode, always love these videos. Best player of the year is a great idea, LFN could be the "France Football" of LoL and give the Balon d'or equivalent for league each year, host a vote with all the legit analysts you guys know. even from out of LFN such as LS. It could be something on categories. Since the best player is most certainly always going to be from the east, you could do best western player of the year or stuff like that.
FPX was extremely dominant in LPL when they won worlds and a lot of people had them favorites coming into worlds. I think there's no way they are a bottom tier worlds winner. They had great cohesion and teamfighting and dominated bracket stage. They were actually pretty influential too, you have mids like Nisqy, Caps, Jojopyun, Showmaker all becoming more roam heavy.
2019 tian should be equal to the 2013 piglet level like they are the only s+ players in their role and gapping everyone like uzi/clid only A- and the others are b/b+， and they are both the key of the meta，2013 adc meta，2019 heavily early game jungle meta， so fpx should not be the bottom
Doinb was also literally a top tier midlaner in a region with Rookie/Scout/Xiye/Xiaohu before 2019 playing fucking mages. His best champs were Ryze and Viktor. Both Tian and Crisp also hit some of the all time highest peak levels in their roles. Both are top 1-2 in terms of peak level in their role at that Worlds.
Amazing content piece. Reminiscing the 2013-2015 league and remembering how absolutely nuts the Samsung white team and what the potential of that KT Rolster team (the ultimate KT razor cake imo) were time well spent. Gonna go back and watch 2014 worlds now.
It's a shame that there wasn't content from Chinese teams in 2015 like there was recently for EDG because I really want an explanation of how all those teams(LGD, EDG) failed so miserably that worlds.
@@theWexlord chinese teams played a very, very different style from everyone else, especially EDG & LGD, were teams only centered around bot lane. The meta moved away from lategame teamfight deathball comps to splitpush/laneswap meta and they failed to adapt.
One of the factors in 2015 was Riot that completely changed the meta before Worlds with the infamous juggernaut patch and the Chinese teams who qualified for Worlds weren't built for that sudden meta change. Plenty of other shit behind the scenes contributed, but the patch shift definitely did not help.
Fpx record including playoffs Spring 2019, 18-6, 3rd place Summer 2019, 20-2, 1st place Worlds 2019, 14-6, 1st place I feel like the 10th place rank is clearly based on narratives, all their players were good throughout the season, doinb won an lpl mvp, tian best jungler in both spring and summer and all 5 were on an all pro team, Lwx who gets a lot of hate was great all summer and worlds. They weren't meta reliant as it was mentioned and were never close to getting eliminated, id definitely put them higher
Amazing video, such throwbacks. I genuinely miss the Korean absolute dominance of god-skill for what the game was at the time. I hope a single team in the future can bring that back from any region. I want to see some giga god play again
2017 is so slept on wtf. They 3-0d kt in gauntlet, they 3-0d LZ, they 3-1d WE and 3-0d SKT. How can you actually say that they’re the weakest worlds winner?
I miss my 40 def rune page. I remember my thresh went out with 40 def rune and cloth armor 5 pot and start with 100+ armor. Since his e passive was on q, I can 1v1 ad carry easily
I agree Samsung white was so much better then every other team in the world at the time. But outside of Korea most of the teams in that tournament was fucking trash tbh.
People need to remember with all those Doinb's weird picks mid in 2019, the best laning mid laners were not able to punish him in lane and had decent amount of cs lead to impact the game. Not even mention in those team fights, Doinb's performance was the best among all those best mid laners at 2019 Worlds.
His playstyle was not polished and clean as of a typical highly rated mid laners, but it worked, and none of the mid laners of that Worlds could do anything essential vs it, which means he was the one who defined meta and was one step ahead everyone. How can you say that he wasn't the best mid of Worlds 2018 when his plays were winning the game while enemy mid laner was coping with 15cs lead and the hope he will carry in late game while his team is in shambles?
@@antosqa7343 And as a matter of fact, after 2019 Worlds, every region started utilize his playstyle into their own games. And that is why nowadays we have those build up waves pushing into turrent and dive enemy laners, so they will miss all the waves and competely being useless in the next 10 mins of the game. He revolutionizes LOL mid lane and his 2019 Worlds run should be valued higher.
I'm only at 10/11, but for my money 2014 SSW is #1 over 2015 SKT (and 2020 DWG?) for two reasons: 1. They literally hard trolled the only two games they lost 2. They absolutely shitstomped the #2 team at the tournament in a fashion that hasn't been seen since (between the top 2 teams). It's my favorite series ever
55:35 see in my opinion it was less the meta that made ig that good, it was more the players reaching their peaks individually all at once, the meta helped of course, but I think ig still win worlds in that form if the meta is anything but ardent-esque cause then rng win or tank top i guess
If vision was unaltered the chance IG wins is extremely small. They rolled very lucky on meta because it enhanced their strengths and diminished the things they were not good at. Remember, the meta does not just affect IG. It also destroyed the strongest region that worlds (LCK) as well as the strongest team in the world (RNG).
Another topic in direct relation to this 1: Which were the best teams in each seasons? Overall performance, consistency etc. You said that in S4 Samsung White was the best team all year and they've won Worlds as well, but in S9 G2 was clearly the best team overall, but they still lost the most important game. What are the other teams?
DRX beat at that time the current champions in EDG. They beat their region 1st place team in GenG. They beat the greatest team with the greatest player in T1 & Faker. Tell me a harder route to win the title? 2022 Worlds Semis & Quarters was one of the most stacked.
On the 2018 KT Razorcake/ GOATs of each role, how certain is Mata as best support? How far away are players like Meiko, Ming, Crisp, Missing? Can I cope for Mikyx on the shortlist?
Not sure how Monte can so confidently say that 2014 was the peak of Korean league of legends? LCK literally just got 4 teams out of groups, 3 of them in first place, into 3 teams into semis and then an LCK vs LCK world finals. The results just don’t add up for him to so confidently say 2014 was the best
TBH their have been 4 years of LCK teams only being knocked out by LCK teams. I think he means you could legit take 5-6 teams from Korea and they could of won worlds that year. It was the most competitive season domestically also.
@@Tornadoissick this. He mentioned it in the video too, the concentration of talents was so high literally half of the best players straight up left the scene for lpl money the year after.
Samsung is simultaneously the best team to win worlds and the worst team to win worlds. That cracked me up. I also think that it's true. I totally agree with the ranking, btw. Neat arguments, pretty fair list.
So, as someone who is pretty new to the esports, call me cringe, but I can't help but see the similarities between how 2014 SSG was for the world, and how 2019 G2 was for EU specifically. Is taht a good comparison?
according to monte, "2015 skt is no 2 cause they werent that good of a team but they excel through worlds''. and also DRX is no9 cause they werent that good of a team but they excel through worlds''.
Drx won cus everyone they faced played worse. SKT were monsters in that tournament.Also Faker 2015 is possibly the 2nd best performer in history after TheShy.
@@Linesweeper TheShy's 2018 peformance (even at Worlds) was not as good as Rookie's, let's not pretend that he didn't split time with Duke because even then he was flipping coins and running it every other game along with Ning and JackeyLove.
Longevity of the roster should be a criteria. SSG was in game 5 of the world finals a year before with the same roster. Definitely worst pre tournament form team except maybe DRX, but back to back years of world finals is insane.
That would immediately, rightfully invalidate Samsung White as they swapped Dade and Pawn midway through the year, and White was at best the 3rd best Korean team leading into the perfect storm of meta and player form circumstances of Worlds 2014. I'm so tired of Samsung White being referred to as being among the best Worlds winning rosters when they lost to their sister team Blue all year long, and didn't win or even participate in the Champions Summer 2014 Final, only winning the 3rd place match. After Samsung's players split off, only Pawn and Deft (both formerly Samsung Blue players, Pawn before he swapped with Dade) remained relevant later on, the rest faded away, particularly imp after his last 2015 run with LGD.
@@DarkCyberElf did you watch the episode? Monte who was a literal caster at the time said SSW were famous for trolling because they were bored. I watched that worlds and they nearly beat tsm while trolling lol
If Loopers Singed was a troll pick, what was Fakers Ryze the year after? And yes, everyone just remembered the broken version with the perma snare earlier that season. But Riot actually destroyed that Champion and made it borderline unplayable, which is why no one else touched it during Worlds. Except Faker... who then got solo kills on it.
thank god there are so many brainless t1 fans in Korea who thinks 2015 SKT is the best but its not even close to SSWs dominance u guys have insight I agree
1-SSW/SSKT 2015 2-SKT 2015/SSW i Think the two are a beast, Samsung was most powerfull, but that was for the meta and the strategy tactical innovation from Dandy-Mata, if other teams knew about that probably they dosent wins with that difference, the loss vs SSB all the year. 3-DWK 4-IG 5-Skt 2013 6-Skt 2016 7-SSG They must the final the last year and they play so well in general they wins 3-0 the finals and also they had a 13-3, one of the best scores. 8- FpX they played so well all that year, they dosent be a meta-depends, they plays so inteligent style, simple the best team with the """worst players""". 9-TPA 10-DRX 11-EDG they dosent have something special, they only win the series. Top of best Not Champions. 1-Rox 2016 2-M5 2012 3- KT 2018 4- T1 2022 5- DWK 2021 6- G2 2019 7- SSB 2014 8-SKT 2019 9-Koo tigers 2015 10) RNG in general, is a miracle this team never wons. Sorry my english is so bad.
I always found the fnatic argument interesting because let’s *suppose* that a currently unestablished region, call it Antarctica, starts a developed league and wins the next 10 world championships, does that invalidate all the previous tournaments before they showed up? I wouldn’t think so
I feel like its only going to get harder to compare current era teams to the older era with the way the game is changing. With DRX, they are really hard to place honestly and the argument that they looked bad and lost to many of the teams at worlds was a result of the meta being so diverse and different from previous worlds so it doesn't really sit well with me because you could say that about any team that had won this years worlds.
FPX is not a patch Zerg, they played the some of the worst champs and had great team cohesion. They were able to take initative by forcing fights on their terms and moving across the map much better than any of the other teams. When behind they would grind and teamfight their way back into games as well. I don't think they belong very high up but they're not the worst team to win Worlds.
One point about the hypothetical FPX vs not G2, Doinb gave an interview saying T1 was crushing them in scrims that worlds and they were concerned about having to play them. So it seems like had G2 lost in the semis, it would have likely been a much different final.
In practice the ranking would probably just be the chronological order, since the players and game evolved over the years. Meaning S12 would win over S11 over S10 over S9 etc. Of course there might be some exceptions, but that's generally how it should go. Sure maybe S11 EDG would be able to beat S12 DRX, but I don't think S7 SSG would lose to S5 SKT T1 or any team before that. Just my opinion, but I find it to be very logical.
I think 2020 damwon are straight up unbeatable there was no way to beat them nuguri canyon showmaker were fucking stomping everyone while beryL is roaming everywhere
I might be biased cause I loved 2019 worlds but imo Monte isn't giving Doinb and FPX enough credit for how innovative their style was. Hard pushing mid priority into jungle/sidelanes reinvented how midlane works globally which is still true today. If strategical legacy is a criteria I would probably put EDG/TPA below them tbh
It’s not like mid advantage spilling into sidelanes never happened before 2019. It just wasn’t the lane normally played around on the specific patch the tournament was played on. They didn’t invent mid prio.
@@Cornincarnate Well let me rephrase I don't remember the timestamp but it was mentioned that a good reason g2 was stomped was due to fpx odd playstyle and that teams couldn't really adapt to it. Since that playstyle was already played by both fpx and other teams before, i don't buy their point of fpx winning mainly due to the teams struggling vs their playstyle
In all sports you count the winners who won when there were only 6 teams or around that number so Fnatic should count even if they are the worst team to win.
They do all this discussion on who’s the best then put Samsung white. A team that as they say came from OGN Korea in which they won nothing all year. They show up to worlds and face one hard opponent at what is the easiest tournament they went to all year and win. Then they break up and do nothing else and that’s the best team ever they aren’t even close.
I dont mind the list but I think samsung got way too trashed on being dead last, what a retcom. They beat longzhu 3-0 and they were the tournament favorites, they then absolutely shit on WE then you get to finals btw 0 people predict samsung to even win they go out and blow skt out saying it was brain-dead patch is a fake arguement other teams had access to these same tools. They were 9-1 in bracket, cuvee destroyed huni, ambition smurfed. Crown gets such a bad wrap for playing malzhar yet faker had one of thee best tournaments ever played dragging skt through multiple games. He just removed faker from the game I think way better then say tpa
My opinion before the show based on my arbitrary and personal decision making: SSW 14 (dominant run and high competition) SKT 15 (dominant run but weaker competition) SKT 13 There's a small dropoff after top 3 imo IG 18 SKT 16 DRX 22 DWG 20 SSG 17 FPX 19 EDG 21 (they were good in the final but the rest of the run was ropey af) TPA 12
No way you have Damwon 7th? They arguably had the most dominant worlds ever, like there wasnt a single team that truly challenged them, even the only 3 games they dropped the enemy team had to give their all and absolutely sweat it out while the vast majority of Damwons wins were smashes not to mention having the fastest game in worlds history and all of this in a later era where dominance is way harder to achieve. And saying EDG's run was ropey af but DRX this year wasnt?
@@sashin2661 I felt like their dominance was a byproduct of many factors during that time (covid for example) The field was just really weak that worlds since I don't rate suning highly and g2 got much much worse, but you are right I probably underrate DWG the most While DRX's run was the closest and unlikeliest worlds win ever they probably beat the 3 of the 4 best teams on their way to the final in a very competetive and high level year imo EDG had 3 3 2's like DRX did but their 3 2's were against a much weaker field including that geng lineup, if you lose 2 games against that geng lineup you can't be that good and I say this as someone who liked their style as an adc Aficionado edit: btw didnt watch the video yet since i save the podcasts for commuting edit 2: if anyone calls lebron's lakers ring a mickey mouse ring then DWG's worlds is a mickey mouse worlds btw
@@peterenis3507 My view on it is that 2020 Damwon is one of only 3 teams (you can probably guess the other 2) that i feel like would win the tournament over and over if it was replayed. Agree they need to get a slight knock for weaker competition though.
It's very surprising to me that you guys put the 2015 SKT run so high up. Sure it was SKT's most dominant showing ever, but I also think the competition that year was very low. That was when every top korean left for china, yet china wasn't even the 2nd best region. Pretty much agree with everything else on the list (might shuffle some stuff by 1) but this one seems very off to me. The 2016 run personally feels stronger from SKT and it's pretty deservedly 6th on this list.
2015 skt won spring. Was 1 game away from Msi champions, 17-1 in summer (record at the time, still 2nd best only after t1 2022), dominated summer playoffs, and were about to go undefeated at worlds literally until the tournament match point where they slipped up and came about and dominated once again to win worlds. They were easily a top 2 team all time
To me, an important consideration is whether or not a team was ever at elimination point in Worlds. That's why I think 2014 SSW, 2015 SKT, and 2020 DWG are top 3 in some order. Also, despite being patch reliant, that 2017 SSG team absolutely rolled through the other LCK teams and deserve the credit. My ranking with FNC removed: 11. 2012 TPA 10. 2019 FPX 9. 2021 EDG 8. 2022 DRX 7. 2016 SKT 6. 2017 SSG 5. 2013 SKT 4. 2018 IG 3. 2020 DWG 2. 2014 SSW 1. 2015 SKT
Nah, the reason is that fpx lost 2 games vs wildcards in groups and then won vs a fnc with garen adc and finally a overconfident g2 in finals. IG reached semis thanks to that griffin had problems with coach and players. So that is the why
@@21___dcy That is just wrong. FPX was destroying the living sht out of G2 in scrims, this is well documented. G2 didn't lose because they were overconfident. Always same when LPL shits on LCK, it is always LCK underperforming LOL. Garen Yuumi was superstrong at that point
@@David-dt5ln The narrative is actually always the exact opposite, when LCK wins it's always LPL underperforming. You ever see any LPL fans or LPL biased caster say otherwise for 2021 (3/4 quarters LCK), 2022 (3/4 Quarters LCK)?
Haven't watched it yet but hope EDG and DWG are not in top 5. Not only did the overall level drop in 2020-2021, Worlds was a Mickey Mouse tournament during the 'pandemic'.
I think the Damwon team is just a worse version of IG 2018. TheShy peak > Nuguri peak, Rookie peak > Showmaker peak, JKL>>>>>Ghost, Canyon = Ning. Only lane that DWG have over iG is support and that is a close call still. That IG team literally only lost to 1 team and they played like straight fire in a pure bot lane meta. They got unlucky with TheShy getting injured just before spring playoffs. Also, 2019 iG was very close to making the world final where honestly you would favor them to win against G2. They did this with a much worse roster than in 2018 as well in a year filled with drama. The Samsung team is quite underrated, they are the only team to 12-0 the top 4 korean teams (not counting themselves) in b05s. With ambition and ruler as the starting players, they essentially 3-0ed Afreeca, KT, LZ and SKT in the regional qualifier and at worlds. They dropped only 1 game in the worlds playoffs, something only SKT 2015 managed to do, which is quite insane. DRX are the worst team by far, similar to TPA. Nobody had them winning, if this was any other year other than 2022 or 2021, they wouldnt have even made it to worlds. So these guys are easily at the bottom of the list. FPX have a really average roster compared to other worlds winning teams but they played good league. The Damwon team was really terrible until Summer. The meta clicked for canyon and the bot lane and that meta remained the same for like 2-3 years. As i mentioned above, you're crazy if you think the Damwon solo laners were better than the iG solo laners, and Jackeylove dumpsters Ghost. 2013 SKT just doesn't really hold up to today's standards for my money other than Faker's gameplay. EDG had a phenomenal roster but their run was on the edge in every bo5. They went to 5 games in every bo5 and barely won them all essentially. Had they showed a more dominant performance, perhaps they be higher. 2016 SKT is another one filled with drama and roster issues, and a lot of losses in the season. They were insanely clutch but also played 14 out of a possible 15 games in playoffs at worlds. They did produce some high quality league and gave us 2 of the best bo5s in worlds history. 2015 SKT was pure dominance, nobody could beat them in playoffs even once if they played 10 bo5s with each team, same with SSW. They were cemented as the best and nobody was close. Despite that I still have iG as the #1 team because nothing could stop theshy and rookie except their coach kim who was stupid enough to sub theshy out in game 4, where iG could have closed it out against KT. IG was the definition of disrespect and skill check. They were like the school bully and you wouldn't even be able to call your parents for help because iG would stomp your parents as well. Awesome to watch, exciting, and some of the most insane plays ever. I will leave you with this gem ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OH4kyXNH0QA.html 11: DRX 10: TPA 9: FPX 8: Samsung 7: SKT 2013 6: Damwon 5: EDG 4: SKT 2016 3: SKT 2015 2: SSW 1: IG
ig were arguably meta dependent as well. the solo lane meta allowed them to shine. next year, they dont have quite the same success, losing to team liquid at msi and falling short in semis. also, none of their players went on to have remarkably successful careers after leaving.
@@user-nm1jn8hg3d they performed a lot better in a bot lane meta. This was in spring 2018. The problem was they didn't have theshy and rookie had one of the worst playoff series in his career. Something that was very much atypical in 2018. Sure the meta benefited them in worlds but it benefited a team like g2 WAY MORE than a team like iG because iG have a really strong adc and their solo laners are so skilled that they are essentially meta immune at that time. Them losing to liquid was essentially because ning was mental boomed by his ex girlfriend who posted shit about him the day before the msi semi finals. In 2019 rookie wasn't as dominant as well and theshy started to int in summer onwards. I don't see how this is relevant I'm talking about 2018
@@M.L.official 2018 ig were somewhat reliant on the meta plus individual peak performances. the fact they performed much worse in 2019 proves that fact. if it was any other meta, such as bot focused meta, they probably wouldnt have won. most people agree that uzi owned him for pretty much all of 2018. plus we have seen jkl for many years now. he has highs, but is a bit too inconsistent to be considered the absolute best. i dont think that ig roster was a complete, bulletproof team that could consistently win championships. and like most teams, thats probably why they eventually disbanded.
No way EDG is 7th. They are easily one of the worst if not the worst team to win. Literally finished 2nd in groups and went to three 5 game series in a row. No way IG is 4th either. That team sucks and only looked good because of how bad their opposition was.
2018 IG is the most overrated team ever G2 and Fnatic were just REALLY WEAK they got arguably the easiest SF+Final combo since S2 KT was alright and they went to 5 games with them LOL
Not to discredit that narrative but if it was so braindead then why couldn't everyone play the ardent meta? Most did try, Samsung just happened to be better at it. This line of thought is disingenuous in metas where aatrox or gangplank is braind dead overpower and they carry top 1v9 also, but because that's more exciting to watch those patches are legit?
Did lil bro just type "why is everyone calling ardent braindead? I don't understand what's so bad about it, so all of these people who do know how it affected the game must be wrong" You didn't explain how ardent actually made the game more skill expressive. You didn't even demonstrate that you have an elementary school understanding of how ardent impacted the game. What is wrong with your brain man?
@@doloran- You failed to understand the point. The item was OP and made ADC overpowered but this isn't the same as abusing one champion that must be banned out during pick phase. EVERYONE had access to the ardent meta, so teams that had a good ADC got an edge. Big deal. When top laners are broken so does teams with carry tops instead of weakside tops. It's not like this team was the only one playing Ardent while the rest of the field played non ardent. EVERYONE was playing ardent and they just happened to be better at it. Where is your brain man?
Thats exactly what I say when people try to discredit SSG when they won worlds. Its not like they had access to a secret weapon that no one else had access to. Everyone as on the same playing field and playing the same meta and SSG was the best at that time. They deserve all the credit for their win.
